AFGM-->BTS (Francis Cole/OOTPDev Football Game Project) - Page 4

FLC28 · 01-31-2014, 12:10 PM

OOTP comes with the rosters already. You only have to download logos if you want them.

sterlingice · 01-31-2014, 12:26 PM

I guess this means that with increased competition in the NFL space, Jim will have to get to work on TCY2

SI

Qrusher14242 · 01-31-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

OOTP comes with the rosters already. You only have to download logos if you want them.

oh yeah i forgot about that heh So i guess they'll do the same thing with this game. I just thought you couldn't make a game with NFL rosters cause of EA's license. Or is it just the Logos?

Carman Bulldog · 01-31-2014, 01:45 PM

I'm sure someone knows quite a bit more about this than me but I believe there is American case law that supports the use of real player names. Obviously stuff like logos, team names, etc. and the like that would be considered intellectual property are off limits for use.

Thus why you can have Joe Flacco as the QB for the Baltimore Crows, etc.

Logan · 01-31-2014, 01:47 PM

The release announcement says "All 32 real American football teams" which I think is a bit disingenuous if it only includes the players and doesn't include the NFL license. The Baltimore Crows is not a real American football team.

RomaGoth · 01-31-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I guess this means that with increased competition in the NFL space, Jim will have to get to work on TCY2

SI

+2

jaygr · 01-31-2014, 04:52 PM

I am very much looking forward to this, as I have been since this thread first started. It is great to see another football sim on the market.

I'm disappointed that it is going to be at least another year until the game is out, especially after the indication earlier was that there may be a working version of the game at the start of this year. However, I feel like this is the right direction to go. I am interested to see what another year of polish and working with an established sim company can produce.

sovereignstar v2 · 01-31-2014, 06:46 PM

I'm kind of relieved nothing is on the horizon. The first batch of screenshots didn't look good IMO. The UI reminded me of that World Basketball Manager game.

Karim · 01-31-2014, 11:17 PM

As has been mentioned, I really hope they learn from FHM and scale back rather than try and be all things to all people.

cartman · 01-31-2014, 11:24 PM

I think the big difference between FHM and this product is that FHM had already existed as a product before. They don't have to really make any compromises between what people grew accustomed to and how that would fit into the OOTP universe.

EagleFan · 01-31-2014, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

I think the big difference between FHM and this product is that FHM had already existed as a product before. They don't have to really make any compromises between what people grew accustomed to and how that would fit into the OOTP universe.

???

cartman · 01-31-2014, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

???

I might be mistaken, but isn't Franchise Hockey Manager based on Eastside Hockey Manager?

EagleFan · 02-01-2014, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

I might be mistaken, but isn't Franchise Hockey Manager based on Eastside Hockey Manager?

I don't believe so, if it is it was screwed up royally.

FLC28 · 02-01-2014, 05:55 AM

EHM was done by someone else entirely, (who now works at SI)

Marc Vaughan · 02-01-2014, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

I might be mistaken, but isn't Franchise Hockey Manager based on Eastside Hockey Manager?

No not at all - the original creator of Eastside was Risto Remes (Riz) who still works at SI.

(I personally do think Franchise Hockey Manager was a hugely ambitious undertaking and will come good - they're definitely very passionate about it)

cartman · 02-01-2014, 10:55 AM

Ah, thanks for the clarifications. I made the wrong assumption. I kept reading on the OOTP boards about what people wanted from EHM in FHM, and then with the similar naming, I made a bad logical jump.

sovereignstar v2 · 02-01-2014, 01:31 PM

Go on with your bad self OOTP board members.

Quote:

And what about Aussie rules?

Quote:

What a crushing disappointment that the CFL will not be modelled.

FLC28 · 02-01-2014, 01:43 PM

It's impossible to please everyone

Groundhog · 02-01-2014, 07:22 PM

Gosh, if you're making a complex 2D simulation of American Football, the very least you could do is also make a complex 2D simulation of a completely unrelated sport like Aussie Rules.

FBPro · 02-01-2014, 07:35 PM

From what they've said the look of the game will be based on OOTP and the early screenshots from last fall are essentially meaningless.

lungs · 02-01-2014, 08:03 PM

Will I be able to model a historical 4th grade pee wee league?

Comey · 02-01-2014, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Will I be able to model a historical 4th grade pee wee league?

Only 5th grade and up. Moms Against Anything wouldn't let it happen.

cartman · 02-01-2014, 08:42 PM

Well, that sucks. I was hoping to sim the game that Senator coached against Sean Payton.

NobodyHere · 02-01-2014, 09:19 PM

Can we at least get the Lingerie Football League modeled with full 3d modeling (only player models, I don't care about the rest).

Comey · 02-01-2014, 09:44 PM

The Puppy Bowl is an Easter Egg. Just FYI.

FLC28 · 02-02-2014, 05:39 AM

I think some of them are just overly enthusiastic

EagleFan · 02-02-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

I think some of them are just overly enthusiastic

They are overly something, that's for sure.

EagleFan · 02-02-2014, 10:26 AM

Can I create a flag football league with only one armed midgets in which I can make a touchdown worth 72 points and field goals worth -24 points?

FLC28 · 02-02-2014, 12:13 PM

I know you jest, but I do actually feel bad when I have to tell them "No" to questions like that. (It doesn't stop them asking though

).

Michael V. · 02-02-2014, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

It's impossible to please everyone

You've got that right. It is impossible in all and any application(s) in life, let alone a game.

Francis, I do not know where you stand on your faith, as far as your belief in God goes, but may God bless you in your endeavour that you may succeed and have success. You seem like a real down to earth and genuine guy...

FLC28 · 02-02-2014, 12:28 PM

Thank you Michael

That means a lot

sovereignstar v2 · 02-02-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

I know you jest, but I do actually feel bad when I have to tell them "No" to questions like that. (It doesn't stop them asking though

).

They are pretty dang spoiled over there. Some of us over here would probably be pretty happy with the ability to just change league sizes...

FLC28 · 02-02-2014, 02:44 PM

Thank you for the title change

EagleFan · 02-02-2014, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

I know you jest, but I do actually feel bad when I have to tell them "No" to questions like that. (It doesn't stop them asking though

).

Will be looking forward to the finished product. Don't let the OOTP crazies beat you down. The most important first step is a fun game that plays well. They may want the world but trying that on the first release can be product suicide.

It's always better to do something well than do a lot of things incompletely.

Wishing you the best.

JPhillips · 02-02-2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Can I create a flag football league with only one armed midgets in which I can make a touchdown worth 72 points and field goals worth -24 points?

And for God's sake get the AI right. I was winning by 20 at the end of the fourth quarter and the AI kicked a 50 yd field goal, and I lost by four. AAARRRGGGH!

flere-imsaho · 02-03-2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

I know you jest, but I do actually feel bad when I have to tell them "No" to questions like that. (It doesn't stop them asking though

).

I wonder what Paul & Olliver Collyer would have done with CM had they been subjected to the kind of feedback game developers get on-line these days.

FLC28 · 02-03-2014, 09:02 AM

That is a sobering thought indeed.

flere-imsaho · 02-03-2014, 09:48 AM

Well, I can't remember if they ever frequented the ChampMan USENET newsgroup (which I did, but I'm going to guess they didn't), and I don't remember when SI set up its forums, but at the very least I'm going to guess it wouldn't have been until 2000-2002 when they would have started getting a deluge of feedback like one does today (though I'm sure they got plenty of emails and *gasp* actual mail).

My point, however, is that that's a large number of years for them to really focus on their own vision for their game, and I'd propose they were the better for it.

Not to say that game developers shouldn't listen to their fans, but generally not at the expense of their own vision. It's something I feel SI, to be honest, has generally kept even up until this day.

FLC28 · 02-03-2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

though I'm sure they got plenty of emails and *gasp* actual mail

Which is how I originally got in touch and led to the events of me joining.
I can't imagine that in today's market many contacts would be made like that (it would be done on Twitter now-a-days, which is never as good).

RomaGoth · 02-03-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLC28

It's impossible to please everyone

Will the XFL be a playable league?

riz · 02-04-2014, 08:33 AM

Good luck with the project Fran ! Looks interesting

And as Marc said above, FHM is not related to EHM outside of the fact that many of the researchers who worked on EHM back in the day ended up doing research for FHM as well.

Ben E Lou · 06-13-2015, 02:08 PM

I missed this for a while, and wonder if others did as well. Sad news from OOTPDev regarding Francis:

An update - May 13th. - OOTP Developments Forums

We are hiring: Software developer for Beyond the Sideline Football - OOTP Developments Forums

SegRat · 06-13-2015, 02:13 PM

Hopefully they can find someone.

Ben E Lou · 06-13-2015, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SegRat

Hopefully they can find someone.

Well, I'd say that concern is a far #2 to the concern about Francis recovering. I merely posted the second link to emphasize that it sounds like his recovery path is more long-term than short-term.

EagleFan · 06-13-2015, 03:13 PM

Crap, sorry to hear that. Wish him the best and that he has a full recovery.

jaygr · 02-06-2016, 08:33 PM

There has been an update posted on the BTS forum:
BTS Development Update - January 2016

I was excited to see first of all that Francis is making good progress in his recovery and that they have hope that he'll be able to join the development of the game in the future.

Second of all, they have found a replacement programmer finally. I am hoping that the game development will pick up steam now. I'm interested to see what they can come up with.

PilotMan · 02-06-2016, 08:35 PM

Cause you want to read it.

Quote:

Hey folks,

we have finally found a new lead developer for BTS who will start to work on the project in February. His name is Michael Winter, he is a big NFL fan and has a nice background in sports game design & development. I'll introduce him officially next week.

Meanwhile, Francis is still in the process of recovering from his health issue. He is making good progress and we hope he will be able to re-join the development team in some capacity in the future.

So, BTS is alive. We will keep you updated with the progress in a regular manner!

Cheers,
Markus

Dutch · 02-06-2016, 09:53 PM

Winter, eh?

Senator · 02-06-2016, 09:57 PM

Not the Steelers

SirFozzie · 02-06-2016, 10:11 PM

Wait, is that the guy behind Maximum Football?

Oh dear.

01-31-2014, 12:26 PM	#152
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I guess this means that with increased competition in the NFL space, Jim will have to get to work on TCY2 SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

01-31-2014, 01:47 PM	#155
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	The release announcement says "All 32 real American football teams" which I think is a bit disingenuous if it only includes the players and doesn't include the NFL license. The Baltimore Crows is not a real American football team. Last edited by Logan : 01-31-2014 at 01:47 PM.

01-31-2014, 11:24 PM	#160
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I think the big difference between FHM and this product is that FHM had already existed as a product before. They don't have to really make any compromises between what people grew accustomed to and how that would fit into the OOTP universe. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 01-31-2014 at 11:26 PM.

02-01-2014, 10:55 AM	#166
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Ah, thanks for the clarifications. I made the wrong assumption. I kept reading on the OOTP boards about what people wanted from EHM in FHM, and then with the similar naming, I made a bad logical jump. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

02-01-2014, 07:22 PM	#169
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Gosh, if you're making a complex 2D simulation of American Football, the very least you could do is also make a complex 2D simulation of a completely unrelated sport like Aussie Rules. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

01-31-2014, 12:10 PM	#151
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	OOTP comes with the rosters already. You only have to download logos if you want them.

01-31-2014, 01:45 PM	#154
Carman Bulldog College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada	I'm sure someone knows quite a bit more about this than me but I believe there is American case law that supports the use of real player names. Obviously stuff like logos, team names, etc. and the like that would be considered intellectual property are off limits for use. Thus why you can have Joe Flacco as the QB for the Baltimore Crows, etc.

01-31-2014, 04:52 PM	#157
jaygr H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003	I am very much looking forward to this, as I have been since this thread first started. It is great to see another football sim on the market. I'm disappointed that it is going to be at least another year until the game is out, especially after the indication earlier was that there may be a working version of the game at the start of this year. However, I feel like this is the right direction to go. I am interested to see what another year of polish and working with an established sim company can produce.

01-31-2014, 06:46 PM	#158
sovereignstar v2 hates iowa Join Date: Oct 2010	I'm kind of relieved nothing is on the horizon. The first batch of screenshots didn't look good IMO. The UI reminded me of that World Basketball Manager game.

01-31-2014, 11:17 PM	#159
Karim College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Calgary	As has been mentioned, I really hope they learn from FHM and scale back rather than try and be all things to all people.

02-01-2014, 05:55 AM	#164
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	EHM was done by someone else entirely, (who now works at SI)

02-01-2014, 01:43 PM	#168
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	It's impossible to please everyone

02-01-2014, 07:35 PM	#170
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	From what they've said the look of the game will be based on OOTP and the early screenshots from last fall are essentially meaningless. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

02-01-2014, 08:03 PM	#171
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Will I be able to model a historical 4th grade pee wee league?

02-01-2014, 08:42 PM	#173
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Well, that sucks. I was hoping to sim the game that Senator coached against Sean Payton. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

02-01-2014, 09:19 PM	#174
NobodyHere Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2013	Can we at least get the Lingerie Football League modeled with full 3d modeling (only player models, I don't care about the rest).

02-01-2014, 09:44 PM	#175
Comey College Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CT via PA via CA via PA	The Puppy Bowl is an Easter Egg. Just FYI. __________________

02-02-2014, 05:39 AM	#176
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	I think some of them are just overly enthusiastic

02-02-2014, 10:26 AM	#178
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Can I create a flag football league with only one armed midgets in which I can make a touchdown worth 72 points and field goals worth -24 points? __________________ The EagleFan YouTube Channel - Reactions Soarin' & Scratchin' YouTube Channel - We react to music, videos, TV, we talk, we are planning some field trips Soarin' & Soothin' - Meditation, Relaxation, and Sleep Aid; mental health is important

02-02-2014, 12:13 PM	#179
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	I know you jest, but I do actually feel bad when I have to tell them "No" to questions like that. (It doesn't stop them asking though ). Last edited by FLC28 : 02-02-2014 at 12:14 PM.

02-02-2014, 12:28 PM	#181
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	Thank you Michael That means a lot

02-02-2014, 02:44 PM	#183
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	Thank you for the title change

02-03-2014, 09:02 AM	#187
FLC28 Beyond The Sideline Developer Join Date: Jul 2013	That is a sobering thought indeed. Last edited by FLC28 : 02-03-2014 at 09:02 AM.

02-03-2014, 09:48 AM	#188
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Well, I can't remember if they ever frequented the ChampMan USENET newsgroup (which I did, but I'm going to guess they didn't), and I don't remember when SI set up its forums, but at the very least I'm going to guess it wouldn't have been until 2000-2002 when they would have started getting a deluge of feedback like one does today (though I'm sure they got plenty of emails and gasp actual mail). My point, however, is that that's a large number of years for them to really focus on their own vision for their game, and I'd propose they were the better for it. Not to say that game developers shouldn't listen to their fans, but generally not at the expense of their own vision. It's something I feel SI, to be honest, has generally kept even up until this day.

02-04-2014, 08:33 AM	#191
riz SI Games Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Helsinki, Finland	Good luck with the project Fran ! Looks interesting And as Marc said above, FHM is not related to EHM outside of the fact that many of the researchers who worked on EHM back in the day ended up doing research for FHM as well.

06-13-2015, 02:08 PM	#192
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I missed this for a while, and wonder if others did as well. Sad news from OOTPDev regarding Francis: An update - May 13th. - OOTP Developments Forums We are hiring: Software developer for Beyond the Sideline Football - OOTP Developments Forums __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

06-13-2015, 02:13 PM	#193
SegRat High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Oshkosh, WI	Hopefully they can find someone. __________________ USFL: Charlotte Fightn' Squirrels

06-13-2015, 03:13 PM	#195
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Crap, sorry to hear that. Wish him the best and that he has a full recovery. __________________ The EagleFan YouTube Channel - Reactions Soarin' & Scratchin' YouTube Channel - We react to music, videos, TV, we talk, we are planning some field trips Soarin' & Soothin' - Meditation, Relaxation, and Sleep Aid; mental health is important

02-06-2016, 08:33 PM	#196
jaygr H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003	There has been an update posted on the BTS forum: BTS Development Update - January 2016 I was excited to see first of all that Francis is making good progress in his recovery and that they have hope that he'll be able to join the development of the game in the future. Second of all, they have found a replacement programmer finally. I am hoping that the game development will pick up steam now. I'm interested to see what they can come up with.

02-06-2016, 09:53 PM	#198
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Winter, eh?

02-06-2016, 09:57 PM	#199
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	Not the Steelers __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

02-06-2016, 10:11 PM	#200
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Wait, is that the guy behind Maximum Football? Oh dear. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

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