Brexit

[bhlloy]

An election would be absolute carnage, but there's no other way out of it now. The Conservatives would be struggling to put candidates up in many of these seats at such short notice, they are already down at least 30 MPs who have either had the whip taken away or have said they won't stand again.

Ultimately about 45% of the voting population are dead set for Brexit and 45% are against it - in a single issue election I don't see how this is going to change anything at all. Big gains for the Lib Dems and Brexit party (if that is what they are calling themselves these days), huge losses for the Tories, a still massively divided parliament and more absolute chaos I guess.

[JPhillips]

Boris can't do anything right. Today he gave a speech attacking the opposition with a backdrop of police. He talked for so long, though, that a policewoman almost fainted and the crowd watching stopped Boris so she could sit before falling.

He's like a walking new season of Veep.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

An election would be absolute carnage, but there's no other way out of it now. The Conservatives would be struggling to put candidates up in many of these seats at such short notice, they are already down at least 30 MPs who have either had the whip taken away or have said they won't stand again.

Ultimately about 45% of the voting population are dead set for Brexit and 45% are against it - in a single issue election I don't see how this is going to change anything at all. Big gains for the Lib Dems and Brexit party (if that is what they are calling themselves these days), huge losses for the Tories, a still massively divided parliament and more absolute chaos I guess.

OTOH, if Boris decides to gun for a no-deal Brexit, the Brexit Party is willing to offer a non-aggression pact by not running against Conservative candidates. Which would staunch a considerable amount of the bleeding.

[GrantDawg]

Meanwhile, as the prospect of an early General Election looms, nearly 200,000 people have applied to register to vote in just 72 hours - and more than half of them are under 35.- BBC

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

..I think there was some concern that a new election would basically occur with like days before the Brexit deadline...

I am no expert on British politics, but my understanding that once an election is called, Parliament disbands and the PM gains a lot of power to govern. So, BJ could just delay the vote to November and parliament couldn't stop him. I imagine even if they make the vote and specify a date for an ellection, he could claim a "state of emergency" and force the date later. They want to legally bind him to a delay before allowing a vote to be called.

[miami_fan]

I woke up this morning to a text from my cousin in London. Two words.

BLACK ROD!

I get it now

[GrantDawg]

The Supreme Court rules that the suspension of Parliament was unlawful, and has nullified it as it "never happened." This stuff just gets crazier.

[Flasch186]

IMO the entirety of votes that have been affected by eastern bloc influence through campaigns via social media et al should be abandoned and revoted. They have flipped Ukraine/Crimea, flipped US Pres. politics, and have begun breaking up the EU. It's ridiculous that everyone stands back and doesn't say out loud the truth which is Nigel, Trump, Boris, while potentially having Nationalist tendencies obviously accepted and encouraged foreign influence to help get to the ends by any means necessary. I don't know where Treason begins and Where Treason ends but tell me what happens after the frog has been boiled?

[miami_fan]

The Supreme Court of a country UNANIMOUSLY said that the leader of that country broke the law?

Can't relate.

[Qwikshot]

If a general election is declared based on what most know now of Brexit, would they still go Brexit?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

IMO the entirety of votes that have been affected by eastern bloc influence through campaigns via social media et al should be abandoned and revoted. They have flipped Ukraine/Crimea, flipped US Pres. politics, and have begun breaking up the EU. It's ridiculous that everyone stands back and doesn't say out loud the truth which is Nigel, Trump, Boris, while potentially having Nationalist tendencies obviously accepted and encouraged foreign influence to help get to the ends by any means necessary. I don't know where Treason begins and Where Treason ends but tell me what happens after the frog has been boiled?

So only nationalistic votes are those that have been tainted by eastern bloc influences? How do you figure this out?

Heck, most of the Trump voters I know with an open mind, are casting an eye towards Yang. Warren, Sanders, and many others scare them with wanting to give everything away. Interestingly enough, Yang intrigues many of them because of the topics he brings up for discussion. What turns me off about Yang is I do not think his plan To pay for his proposals will work.

The others I know that voted for Trump would not vote for the Democrat nominee in anyway shape or form.

In my eyes, the Eastern bloc attempts to influence the election did not do a lot. I think the impact was after the election, the creation of doubt regarding results, the vitriol and animus towards each other. When I check Facebook, I see nothing but those on the left calling those that support Trump Nazis. I see those on the right calling those on the left Snowflakes, morons, etc. How are we supposed to come to an agreement, or operate a government, if we look at the other side as a demon that needs to be stopped at all costs?

[JPhillips]

There are plenty of documented attempts by Russia and others to sow discord, both before and after the election. Just yesterday Facebook closed a page followed by over a million that had ties to Ukrainian right-wingers.

And things are worse in Europe, with Russia openly funding right-wing parties.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

If a general election is declared based on what most know now of Brexit, would they still go Brexit?

I think it's the only way to find out now, but we're in a situation that I've never known before (along with many others)

The minority government wants an election
The main opposition doesn't want an election
The opposition parties want Johnson to resign and an emergency government formed
The opposition parties will not support a no confidence vote that would force an emergency government to be formed
There is no agreement on who would be lead an emergency government, or which party they should come from

Only a little bit confusing...

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There are plenty of documented attempts by Russia and others to sow discord, both before and after the election. Just yesterday Facebook closed a page followed by over a million that had ties to Ukrainian right-wingers.

And things are worse in Europe, with Russia openly funding right-wing parties.

This. Warhammer, it's clear as day what the Soviet bloc and anti-democracy intentions were. They're constantly having to play whack a mole to shut down Korean, Chinese, Iranian, Anarchist influence wearing sheep's clothing. They can't keep up there's so much and they have been given all the ammo needed to tap into the deepest seeds of people's core that they hide in the caverns, and mineshafts of their Psyche (see the movie Us). Remember...the good ones aren't coming here... just the rapists and drug dealers. Rinse Repeat ad nauseum on the topic du jour. Replace Nationalist with anything that is Anti-democratic or that weakens their enemies (us) and they're doing it. We do it to them so you don't think that they're doing it to us? Shit, the very top of government, when Trumps not looking, say the same damn thing on record that they're doing it right, frickin now.


Yes, they were able to tilt things on very close elections the way that they wanted by preying upon the sheeple (maybe not your tiny little bubble of people but extrapolated out). On MANY polls after the fact, when things that some believed to be true (especially in the Brexit autopsy) were debunked, the masses have said that they would vote differently. Not in the states though... Trump could shoot someone in Times Square and get away with it. We've seen that he might've been right.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

So only nationalistic votes are those that have been tainted by eastern bloc influences? How do you figure this out?

Heck, most of the Trump voters I know with an open mind, are casting an eye towards Yang. Warren, Sanders, and many others scare them with wanting to give everything away. Interestingly enough, Yang intrigues many of them because of the topics he brings up for discussion. What turns me off about Yang is I do not think his plan To pay for his proposals will work.

The others I know that voted for Trump would not vote for the Democrat nominee in anyway shape or form.

In my eyes, the Eastern bloc attempts to influence the election did not do a lot. I think the impact was after the election, the creation of doubt regarding results, the vitriol and animus towards each other. When I check Facebook, I see nothing but those on the left calling those that support Trump Nazis. I see those on the right calling those on the left Snowflakes, morons, etc. How are we supposed to come to an agreement, or operate a government, if we look at the other side as a demon that needs to be stopped at all costs?

Ask McConnell?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I think it's the only way to find out now, but we're in a situation that I've never known before (along with many others)

The minority government wants an election
The main opposition doesn't want an election
The opposition parties want Johnson to resign and an emergency government formed
The opposition parties will not support a no confidence vote that would force an emergency government to be formed
There is no agreement on who would be lead an emergency government, or which party they should come from

Only a little bit confusing...

I read this with the Benny Hill theme in my mind. It is just proof politics wherever you are from is just crazy.

[AlexB]

Spoiler

[Hammer]

I live in a Tory heartland. Feels like 1930s Germany. Fake news and propaganda has brainwashed so many. If it is on Facebook it must be real and should be shared!

Embarrassing travelling this summer. Tempted to put on an Aussie accent.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I live in a Tory heartland. Feels like 1930s Germany. Fake news and propaganda has brainwashed so many. If it is on Facebook it must be real and should be shared!

Embarrassing travelling this summer. Tempted to put on an Aussie accent.

Heck, live where I live (the heart of Trump country). It is the same deal, except the people have guns.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Heck, live where I live (the heart of Trump country). It is the same deal, except the people have guns.

Haha, they are very similar in their ideologies. I would sooner have Trump personally, at least he has an eye for the economy. But then, perhaps not. The whole gun thing would drive me insane. Just defies common sense. As an outsider this right to bare arms business sound like nonsense. Clearly it is getting people killed. Pretty close call between them probably.

[miami_fan]

🇪🇺🤝🇬🇧 Where there is a will, there is a #deal - we have one! It’s a fair and balanced agreement for the EU and the UK and it is testament to our commitment to find solutions. I recommend that #EUCO endorses this deal. pic.twitter.com/7AfKyCZ6k9

— Jean-Claude Juncker (@JunckerEU) October 17, 2019

[Izulde]

Withdrawal Agreement passes second reading, but BoJo's three day timeline voted down. So now it's either short extension and battle to get deal through or January extension and fight for a new election.

[miami_fan]

Brexit: European leaders agree extension to 31 January - BBC News

This just put the UK back to where they were prior to the Brexit vote with 3+ years of animosity added on.

[Edward64]

So if Boris can get agreement on another election soon isn't this the best route to decide once and for all the will of the people? After 3+ years of this, I think 99% of UK are well educated on the pros and cons of Brexit, no excuses this time on "I didn't know what it would mean".

[JPhillips]

I get the problems with Corbyn, but politically it seems insane that there's really not a strong pro-remain party.

[ISiddiqui]

Well there is... it's the Liberal Democrats.

(and yes, the vast, vast majority of Labour are remainers, but Corbyn is not really)

[AlexB]

Was only saying today it’s amazing that the opposition doesn’t have a double digit lead in the polls right now, but it shows how bad Corbyn is by the fact that it’s the Tories have the double digit lead...

[miami_fan]

The date has been set. The General Election will be held on December 12

[Neon_Chaos]

I will miss John Bercow. He's quite fun to watch as the speaker.

[miami_fan]

Tories or Labour?
Johnson or Corbyn?

Election Day in the UK has begun.

[miami_fan]

If the exit polling is correct, Labour got their asses handed to them.

[Izulde]

I figured Labour would take a bath - I didn't project *this* badly, though. I've been keeping an eye on the campaign and though the Tories would win a majority because they were running smart messaging, Labour was a hot mess, and Lib Dems shot themselves in the foot by committing to A50 revocation.

Swinson looks she lost her seat, which is perfectly emblematic of her unforced campaign error.

[larrymcg421]

Labour deserves it. Corbyn is a joke.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Labour deserves it. Corbyn is a joke.

Just saw a polling question on who do you trust regarding the NHS and Johnson beat Corbyn by ten points. He's been a fucking disaster.

[AlexB]

It looks like Jo Swinson has gone from saying at one point that she was a realistic contender for PM in this election... to losing her seat.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Assuming the exit polls hold up you could knock me over with a feather at the outcome. Less than 24 hours ago I'd basically given the situation up as a lost cause.

Happy to be (apparently) wrong about that.

[bhlloy]

You could have probably picked any moderate Labour backbencher to lead the party 3 years ago and they would have won this election. To have managed to get blown out in an election like this given how badly the Tories have fucked up Brexit and how unpopular Boris is, is an absolutely Herculean task. It’s impressive in terms of sheer incompetence.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Assuming the exit polls hold up you could knock me over with a feather at the outcome. Less than 24 hours ago I'd basically given the situation up as a lost cause.

Happy to be (apparently) wrong about that.

Wait, what? Did you just think every poll going back 3 months was wrong?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Wait, what? Did you just think every poll going back 3 months was wrong?

I bought into the trending, which combined with my natural tendency toward doom & gloom.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

You could have probably picked any moderate Labour backbencher to lead the party 3 years ago and they would have won this election. To have managed to get blown out in an election like this given how badly the Tories have fucked up Brexit and how unpopular Boris is, is an absolutely Herculean task. It’s impressive in terms of sheer incompetence.

Moderates didn't fare well either. The Liberal Democrat leader lost her seat. In a lot of constituencies, the Labour losses seemed to go directly to the Brexit Party (not even to the Conservatives!), which helped Conservatives win those seats.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50766123

Interestingly I didn't know that the Brexit Party refused to run in 317 safe Conservative seats.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Moderates didn't fare well either. The Liberal Democrat leader lost her seat. In a lot of constituencies, the Labour losses seemed to go directly to the Brexit Party (not even to the Conservatives!), which helped Conservatives win those seats.

Election results 2019: Brexit Party 'killed Lib Dems and hurt Labour' - Farage - BBC News

Interestingly I didn't know that the Brexit Party refused to run in 317 safe Conservative seats.

Similar (but much smaler scale) three way deal by Remainers in 11 of the 40 Wales. Preferred LD candidate stood down in Canterbury to help Labour hold on there (a substitute LD was eventually put up)

[Carman Bulldog]

Any chance we get Scotland voting to leave the UK and remain in the EU? (Scexit?)

[ISiddiqui]

I'm thinking that's a distinct possibility.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[bhlloy]

Was chatting to my friend who is reasonably high in the home office earlier - his take is that Johnson is going to put his fingers in his ears for 5 years and just ignore it - although the SNP will try there’s nothing they can do constitutionally as the decision to allow another referendum has to come from Westminster.

They also can’t just stay in the EU post Brexit - they’d have to apply for reentry. The one thing is certain that IndyRef2 would overwhelmingly be in favor of leaving the UK.

Possibly more telling is that Nationalist MPs now have a majority over Unionists in Northern Ireland. I think there’s a real possibility that the UK only contains two constituents in the next 10-15 years.

[Groundhog]

I'd feel worse for the UK if my own government wasn't so hopelessly inept and corrupt. Feeling apathetic about politics in general, which I guess means the current system is working just as intended.

[Edward64]

Welp, the Brits / UK have spoken (right?).

[Groundhog]

It's not even the result, it's the lack of any decent candidates on either sides. It's the same problem here. Never thought I'd ask for better pay for politicians, but I don't know how else you get some people with actual ability to want to step into politics rather than the caricatures and cockroaches that end up in these positions now.

[NobodyHere]

I blame the voters more than the quality of politicians.

[Brian Swartz]

So do I. It's not the pay of the politicians that's the problem, it's the fact that a lot of the better candidates get weeded out earlier because they aren't what the people want, and a lot of others don't run because they'll never make it through that gauntlet and they know it. The electorate themselves needs to make better decisions.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

So do I. It's not the pay of the politicians that's the problem, it's the fact that a lot of the better candidates get weeded out earlier because they aren't what the people want, and a lot of others don't run because they'll never make it through that gauntlet and they know it. The electorate themselves needs to make better decisions.

If you were a decent person, who would want to go through the wringer and potentially have falsehoods and be drug through the mud? Having to go through all that takes not only a strong will, but the rest of your friends and family have to be just as strong as well.

Add to that, the partisan atmosphere where people become completely unhinged if you are for the other side. I have seen people that have been friends (real friends, not online friends) end friendships over something benign that someone posted online in support of one side or the other. As if that trumps how they act and treat you in real life.