NFL Week 16

[bronconick]

Chip Kelly has been relieved of duties. He'll probably offer his nuts if he can coach the Titans with Mariota.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Chip Kelly has been relieved of duties. He'll probably offer his nuts if he can coach the Titans with Mariota.

I just hope he ends up in Tennessee and not another college program.

[miami_fan]

I really don't understand this from the Eagles point of view, unnless this completely blew up behind the scenes. Right or wrong, they gave him personnel power and allowed him to jettison some real assets. To cut bait less than a year is surprising.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I just hope he ends up in Tennessee and not another college program.

Translation - I sure hope Miami isn't foolish enough to hire Mora and UCLA ends up hiring Chip.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I just hope he ends up in Tennessee and not another college program.

Sits for a year perhaps?

[corbes]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I really don't understand this from the Eagles point of view, unnless this completely blew up behind the scenes. Right or wrong, they gave him personnel power and allowed him to jettison some real assets. To cut bait less than a year is surprising.

I have to assume there was something else going on behind the scenes. I don't think it was warranted (yet) from a strictly-performance standpoint.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Translation - I sure hope Miami isn't foolish enough to hire Mora and UCLA ends up hiring Chip.

From your lips

I've heard rumors that he wouldnt coach in the PAC-12 as long as Helfrich is at Oregon. Plus I doubt UCLA is creative enough to make it happen even if all the dominos fell correctly

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Chip Kelly has been relieved of duties. He'll probably offer his nuts if he can coach the Titans with Mariota.

Meanwhile, Philly fans get to watch Andy Reid back in the playoffs for a 2nd time with the Chiefs.

What a mess in Philly.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Translation - I sure hope Miami isn't foolish enough to hire Mora and UCLA ends up hiring Chip.

I really don't think UCLA can afford Chip, but I would hate to see him lead Texas back to power. USC should have waited and gotten him.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola,

Also, I think there is very little chance Mora ends up in Miami. His agent is brilliant at manufacturing "interest."

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dola,

Also, I think there is very little chance Mora ends up in Miami. His agent is brilliant at manufacturing "interest."

The only interest I ever saw him manufacture was the Jets job last year and even Mora came out and said he didn't know he was interviewing

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Logan

Chip Kelly fired.

And Christmas came a little late for Philly fans He was given complete control, and most of what he came up with failed miserably. He was in the weakest division in the NFL, and should have dominated it. He had the top rusher from last year and seemed to have no clue how to use him or his other RB's.. Yet he let the one RB who produced for him got to Buffalo. Bradford was not good for a good chunk of the season. I could go on and on. Ownership expected him to produce when he got control of the team, and he bombed. Tennessee will most likely be his next and last stop in the NFL.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I really don't understand this from the Eagles point of view, unnless this completely blew up behind the scenes. Right or wrong, they gave him personnel power and allowed him to jettison some real assets. To cut bait less than a year is surprising.

Was it ever going to get better though? Bradford is a middling QB who can't stay healthy and doesn't fit in the scheme. Murray was given a huge contract and really doesn't fit in the scheme. Matthews is fine but do you need to give that much to two RB in today's game? Alonso is decent middle linebacker which is an easy position to get value for.

I guess what's the point in giving him another year when his transactions were flat out bad and the two biggest moves he made didn't even fit the scheme he wants to run?

[EagleFan]

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EagleFan]

I don't understand what happened with Kelly. When given talented players he had a fun team to watch and really only needed to tweak it a little. Then he blows the team up and brings in players that don't even fit the system he is trying to run.

Add to that the little fact that he called games like he was still in college. If I see that stupid little pitch play from the shotgun again in my lifetime it will be too soon (the one that ended up as the season ending fumble-- he ran that several times that game and every time it resulted in negative yardage).

Not sure how long it will take to fix what he has destroyed with this team.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I take it you are happy with the firing?

[Thomkal]

Gus Bradley will be back next year in Jaksonville.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I really don't think UCLA can afford Chip, but I would hate to see him lead Texas back to power. USC should have waited and gotten him.

Texas A&M?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I take it you are happy with the firing?

What makes you think that....

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Was it ever going to get better though? Bradford is a middling QB who can't stay healthy and doesn't fit in the scheme. Murray was given a huge contract and really doesn't fit in the scheme. Matthews is fine but do you need to give that much to two RB in today's game? Alonso is decent middle linebacker which is an easy position to get value for.

I guess what's the point in giving him another year when his transactions were flat out bad and the two biggest moves he made didn't even fit the scheme he wants to run?

Is it unreasonable to expect someone to get better at a job he had never done before the more he did it? I don't know if he would or not but if Lurie honestly thought he could do the job, he gets more than one year. I don't think any coach should get the ultimate personnel control so I think it was a flawed decision from the start. However, hiring a guy to control your personnel and firing him about 12 months seems like a very Stephen Ross-ish type of move and I would not wish that on any fan base.

[bhlloy]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect somebody to not be so incompetent from the get go that they give tens of millions of dollars to players who don't even fit the scheme they want to run. I can understand why Lurie is furious and fired him

[jbergey22]

The Eagles were headed the wrong direction. His college style of coaching didnt fit in the NFL. If they were improving it would be a different story. They went from a playoff team to a bad team without any real hope for improvement in 3 years.

His coaching didnt bring that incredible offense to the NFL that some expected. He tried different pieces to fit the puzzle and it was just getting worse. Good time to move on before it becomes unrecoverable IMO.

[sabotai]

According to the rumor mill, Lurie wanted to revoke Kelly's GM responsibilities and Kelly balked at that so he was fired.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I really don't think UCLA can afford Chip, but I would hate to see him lead Texas back to power. USC should have waited and gotten him.

I get the feeling he'll do everything he can to stay in the NFL - he wasn't a fan of recruiting and dealing with boosters and all that, so I think Texas would be a terrible fit for him.

Have to think Tennessee takes a long hard look at bringing him in.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by sabotai

According to the rumor mill, Lurie wanted to revoke Kelly's GM responsibilities and Kelly balked at that so he was fired.

This will be good for Chip's gigantic ego. Thinking he could make Bradford into a pro bowl QB was both the height of his ego and ignorance all in one. Just nothing made sense about that move or signing both Mathews and Murray. He just has no clue how to build a winning NFL team. He needs to take a step back and re-evaluate.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The more I read about this Peyton Manning HGH story, the angrier I get at the state of journalism these days.

You couldn't convince that there's a single editor at Al Jazeera who took a journalism ethics class in his or her entire life. How in the world did that story make it to the air?

They should all be sentenced to reporting on Donald Trump for the rest of their lives. Maybe they could draw some cartoons about his kids.

Have you actually watched the documentary? The allegation was that HGH was shipped to Manning's wife. A fact which to date no one has denied. One can also apparently only be prescribed HGH for one of three medical reasons, none of which one would likely go to an anti-aging clinic for.

Not to mention that the allegation was not any sort of editorializing by Al Jazeera but rather was a statement made on video by another individual. Al Jazeerea then confirmed that this individual worked at the clinic on the date in question. Can you explain how all of this equates to a lack of journalistic ethics?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Have you actually watched the documentary? The allegation was that HGH was shipped to Manning's wife. A fact which to date no one has denied. One can also apparently only be prescribed HGH for one of three medical reasons, none of which one would likely go to an anti-aging clinic for.

Not to mention that the allegation was not any sort of editorializing by Al Jazeera but rather was a statement made on video by another individual. Al Jazeerea then confirmed that this individual worked at the clinic on the date in question. Can you explain how all of this equates to a lack of journalistic ethics?

Yeah I don't see it either. I think the story was good to go.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Have you actually watched the documentary? The allegation was that HGH was shipped to Manning's wife. A fact which to date no one has denied. One can also apparently only be prescribed HGH for one of three medical reasons, none of which one would likely go to an anti-aging clinic for.

Not to mention that the allegation was not any sort of editorializing by Al Jazeera but rather was a statement made on video by another individual. Al Jazeerea then confirmed that this individual worked at the clinic on the date in question. Can you explain how all of this equates to a lack of journalistic ethics?

No. We don't get Al Jazeera. My reaction is based on this story from ESPN:

Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs

Also, this article which describes the use of the Manning jersey extensively in the piece:

We watched Al Jazeera's 'The Dark Side' implicating Peyton Manning. Here's our take - Mile High Report

I don't see anything to indicate how this report passed the smell test. That may be the state of journalism these days, but it's a sad one if it is. At best, there needed to be a lot of fact-checking on Sly and a lot less grandstanding and ominous posturing (sure, they're not direct accusations, but they amount to the same).

Right now, it looks like Sly may or may not have been an intern in the pharmacy at the time, and he may or may not have sent HGH to any real wives of NFL or MLB players. The story couldn't stand on its own, so Al Jazeera added the jerseys and the what-ifs to try and make the story themselves. That's not journalism.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That's not journalism.

It's okay.

Al-Jihad isn't a real network either.

[BillJasper]

If I'm an NFL GM, I'm leery of hiring Chip Kelly. Whose to say he doesn't pull the same type of power play after a year or two in his next job?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Texas A&M?

I think that is another big possibility. It is going to make me sick to my stomach if he ends up anywhere in college and Helton does not win big.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

No. We don't get Al Jazeera. My reaction is based on this story from ESPN:

Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs

Also, this article which describes the use of the Manning jersey extensively in the piece:

We watched Al Jazeera's 'The Dark Side' implicating Peyton Manning. Here's our take - Mile High Report

I don't see anything to indicate how this report passed the smell test. That may be the state of journalism these days, but it's a sad one if it is. At best, there needed to be a lot of fact-checking on Sly and a lot less grandstanding and ominous posturing (sure, they're not direct accusations, but they amount to the same).

Right now, it looks like Sly may or may not have been an intern in the pharmacy at the time, and he may or may not have sent HGH to any real wives of NFL or MLB players. The story couldn't stand on its own, so Al Jazeera added the jerseys and the what-ifs to try and make the story themselves. That's not journalism.

I think that's why Al-Jazeera got the story. Only network that would have given this story a chance. Let's face it, they aren't known for their sports journalism. This story, for good or bad, brought attention to the network-I could see where that would be appealing to them, despite the dubiousness of the reporting.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's okay.

Al-Jihad isn't a real network either.

+1

[MIJB#19]

Y'all make it sound like they're the CNN of the other side of the pond.

[QuikSand]

If I'm a fan of a team on the market for a new coach, I really want Kelly as coach-only. I follow both Cleveland and Miami to some degree... and I'd LOVE him for the Browns, and I'd be pretty happy with him in Miami as well.

[QuikSand]

Steve Smith has just pledged publicly he's targeting a comeback for 2016. (He had announced his retirement after 2015 before the season started, but after a bad injury there had been talk he didn't want to go out on a cart. I hope he can live up to his goal here, that's a tough injury to rehab from.)

[stevew]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Steve Smith has just pledged publicly he's targeting a comeback for 2016. (He had announced his retirement after 2015 before the season started, but after a bad injury there had been talk he didn't want to go out on a cart. I hope he can live up to his goal here, that's a tough injury to rehab from.)

Awesome


I also thought you wrote he was publicly targeting a cornerback the first time and was excited to see who he has beef with.

[stevew]

Really wonder wtf is wrong with SD that they'd both fine and IR Eric Weddle. Basically kicking his ass out the door. He should be a good signing this offseason.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

No. We don't get Al Jazeera. My reaction is based on this story from ESPN:

Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs

Also, this article which describes the use of the Manning jersey extensively in the piece:

We watched Al Jazeera's 'The Dark Side' implicating Peyton Manning. Here's our take - Mile High Report

I don't see anything to indicate how this report passed the smell test. That may be the state of journalism these days, but it's a sad one if it is. At best, there needed to be a lot of fact-checking on Sly and a lot less grandstanding and ominous posturing (sure, they're not direct accusations, but they amount to the same).

I don't get Al-Jazeera America either but the documentary has been publicly available on the internet since Sunday morning. I can't really say that I have ever watched or read any of their reports before but with that said, they appear to be fairly well decorated and have received an RFK Award for Excellence in Journalism, a News & Documentary Emmy Award and a pair of Peabody Awards, all in recent years.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Right now, it looks like Sly may or may not have been an intern in the pharmacy at the time, and he may or may not have sent HGH to any real wives of NFL or MLB players. The story couldn't stand on its own, so Al Jazeera added the jerseys and the what-ifs to try and make the story themselves. That's not journalism.

Here is what is evident to me so far...

1. Charles Sly makes comments while being secretly recorded regarding a number of professional athletes using a steroid known as Delta-2.

2. Taylor Teagarden of the Chicago Cubs is also secretly recorded on the video in the presence of Sly talking about the use and detection of Delta-2.

3. Al Jazeera claims that Sly was able to supply the undercover reporter, Liam Collins, with performance enhancing drugs. They also claim that they kept the drugs supplied.

4. Sly also makes reference to HGH being shipped to Ashley Manning as well as the Manning's coming into the Guyer Clinic after hours.

5. The documentary points out that HGH cannot be prescribed off-label and that there are only three lawful reasons it can be prescribed, which are AIDS wasting, short bowel syndrome and growth hormone deficiency, none of which one would go to an anti-aging clinic doctor to have prescribed.

5. Prior to the documentary being released, Sly issued a video in which he recants basically anything he said.

6. Peyton Manning issued a statement denying ever using HGH and stating that any treatment received by his wife is a private matter of hers. Manning also confirms that his wife was a patient at the clinic and did have a prescription. Manning also does confirm being a patient at the Guyer Clinic, disputes the comment about him going there after hours but then confirms that he would go there after hours.

8. The Guyer Clinic issued a statement saying that Sly never even worked at the Clinic in 2011 and that he was not there until 2013.

9. Al Jazeera released a recording of their reporter contacting the clinic to confirm when Sly worked there and being provided with a start date of October 17th, 2011.

10. Pharmacy records show that Sly was licensed as a pharmacy intern in Indiana between April 2010 and May 2013.

10. Indianapolis reporter Bob Kravitz confirmed that he had been prescribed HGH by the Guyer Clinic in the past.

11. In September 2011, Manning travelled to Europe to undergo a stem cell therapy in regards to his neck surgeries.

12. This article quotes a doctor who says that if HGH is used in conjunction with stem cell therapy, that the recovery and healing process is more effective. This article on Science Daily would seem to support that.


So, that would appear to be the evidence before me. Now, a few major concerns for me have been raised based on statements that have been made, etc.

Firstly, Charles Sly's ability to supply performance enhancing drugs is pretty much validated by the fact that Teagarden appears at what is presumably Sly's apartment and discusses drugs with the undercover reporter. I suppose it's possible that all of the other athletes he mentioned are lies but Teagarden seems legit. It also seems strange that he would put so much emphasis on a random player such as Mike Neal if they were lies.

Secondly, if the lies were simply made to sell drugs to the undercover reporter, why not lie and say that he supplied Delta-2 (which Sly really seems to be pushing) to Peyton Manning, instead of saying that while employed at the Guyer Clinic, HGH was shipped to Manning's wife?

Thirdly, Charles Sly then makes a statement recanting everything. Manning then makes a statement saying he never used HGH but leaves open the door that his wife received HGH shipped from the Guyer Clinic? If Ashley Manning never received HGH from the Guyer Clinic, why hasn't someone said that thus far? If she did receive it, that means Sly was truthful, at least in parts.

Fourthly, the Guyer Clinic then makes a statement that Sly never worked there in 2011 when Manning was a patient. According to the ESPN article linked, Sly also told Chris Mortensen that he isn't a pharmacist and was not at the Guyer Clinic in 2011. According to Peter King, both Manning and Dr. Guyer told him that Sly worked at the clinic only in 2013. With the new video distributed confirming Sly as an employee at the Guyer Clinic beginning on October 17th, 2011, this leads to some major concerns about all of these people lying about Sly being there at the time. It's shocking that Mortensen and King would get something wrong, especially after the whole Deflategate thing, but that appears to be the case.

Anything I'm missing?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

... It's shocking that Mortensen and King would get something wrong, especially after the whole Deflategate thing, but that appears to be the case.

Anything I'm missing?

I think you have a good handle on the case. What are you missing? Just that Al Jazeera took a piece of this information and turned it into this tabloid drama, complete with children throwing footballs while wearing Manning jerseys. Again, that's not journalism. Tell the story (if you have it sourced) and let people come to their own conclusions. Don't tell people what to think.

As for Mortensen, he trashed his own reputation by taking information (probably from the NFL offices) and repeating it without getting confirmation - or even someone with a name on the record. That's the state of journalism these days. Get it out first, even if you have to clean up later.

This is a one-source story, and the source said he embellished to impress this British hurdler who seems to have his own credibility issues. There may be a story here, but it's not properly sourced. And with someone's reputation on the line, that's not ethical. Right now, it's "more probably than not, Peyton Manning made an effort to recover from his neck injury."

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think you have a good handle on the case. What are you missing? Just that Al Jazeera took a piece of this information and turned it into this tabloid drama, complete with children throwing footballs while wearing Manning jerseys. Again, that's not journalism. Tell the story (if you have it sourced) and let people come to their own conclusions. Don't tell people what to think.

In my opinion, that MileHighReport.com story (an unbiased website I'm sure), overplays the whole kid in a jersey thing. The documentary shows the same short clip at two different points of one kid in the Manning jersey throwing the ball. There is also a female fan talking about how great Peyton is. The whole point I believe is to show how admired of an athlete/person Manning is, which is important in the context of the documentary because it shows that even someone as respected as Manning is potentially linked to performance enhancing drugs.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is a one-source story, and the source said he embellished to impress this British hurdler who seems to have his own credibility issues. There may be a story here, but it's not properly sourced. And with someone's reputation on the line, that's not ethical. Right now, it's "more probably than not, Peyton Manning made an effort to recover from his neck injury."

You're correct, it is a single source story. I'm not sure I buy the embellishment angle at all though, particularly in regards to Manning. If you wanted to impress the hurdler, why not just say that you supplied Peyton Manning with Delta-2 like he did everyone else? Regarding the sourcing, there is some corroboration of his overall story via the drugs received from Charles Sly (if you believe Collins did receive drugs which Al Jazeera says they still have) as well as a pro athlete (Taylor Teagarden) also corroborating receiving drugs from Sly right on video. There was also the other doctor (two doctors?) that put the hurdler on to Sly and how much the doctor(s) pumped Sly's tires, so to speak. Al Jazeera America also confirmed that Sly was licensed as a pharmacy intern in the State of Indiana between 2010 and 2013 and confirmed that he worked at the Guyer Clinic beginning in October 2011. They have evidence that supports this.

Furthermore though, the claim of the single source was that HGH was being shipped to Ashley Manning on a regular basis. A claim that still has not been denied by anybody.

Here are the claims by the source as I see them;

1. Ashley Manning and Peyton Manning were patients at the Guyer Clinic. - This was confirmed by Manning's camp.

2. Sly met Manning at the Guyer Institute and was part of a medical team that helped Manning recover from his surgery. - This has been denied and claims made that Sly was not there until 2013, although it was later revealed that Al Jazeera had Guyer Clinic staff on recording confirming Sly started there in October 2011. Why the denials?

3. The Manning's would come in after hours for treatment. - Manning said that he and his wife never went in together after hours and that the "after hours" thing was "misleading", but then confirmed that he would go there outside regular scheduled hours.

4. Dr. Guyer dispenses drugs out of his office. - Indianpolis Colts beat writer Bob Kravitz confirmed that he was prescribed HGH by Dr. Guyer in the past.

5. The Guyer Clinic would frequently be sending Ashley Manning growth hormone. - To date, no one has denied this and Manning's camp has confirmed that Ashley Manning had a prescription there for a yet undisclosed drug.

Apart from some contention about when Sly worked there, they have not denied any of his allegations, not even the one where Ashley Manning had HGH shipped to her. I'm guessing that the PR specialist Manning hired quickly had Manning confirm everything that could be proven (ie. being a patient at the clinic, attending outside of regular scheduled hours, Ashley Manning having a prescription at the clinic, etc.) while not painting themselves into a corner by lying about anything that could potentially be proven later (ie. Ashley Manning did have HGH shipped to her or an HGH prescription).

If this turns out to be a situation where Ashley Manning was having HGH illegally prescribed to her off-label and she was actually the one using the HGH coincidentally during the same time frame that the her husband was recovering from stem cell therapy (a treatment aided by the use of HGH), then I feel really bad for the guy.

[Solecismic]

In response, I'd say to the reporter, "you have the bones of what could be a good story, but it's not there yet."

Instead, Al-Jazeera dressed it up like The National Enquirer, framed it in an emotional "what-if" context, and thoroughly trashed Manning's reputation.

If you wanted to impress the hurdler, why not just say that you supplied Peyton Manning with Delta-2 like he did everyone else?

No idea. Why would an intern in the pharmacy know anything more than shipping labels? He wouldn't meet Manning as part of a team - not even to get his sneakers signed.

Surely Al Jazeera's legal department reviewed this - perhaps this testimony was tweaked just to the edge of open-and-shut libel. That's what The National Enquirer does.

If this turns out to be a situation where Ashley Manning was having HGH illegally prescribed to her off-label and she was actually the one using the HGH coincidentally during the same time frame that the her husband was recovering from stem cell therapy (a treatment aided by the use of HGH), then I feel really bad for the guy.

We don't know that it was illegally prescribed. We don't know what it was for. Ashley Manning is a private individual, and if it was legally prescribed for her (even if the prescription itself violates medical rules), this is likely a huge problem for the clinic under HIPAA and a probable libel issue for Al Jazeera in terms of airing private facts about a private individual.

If this is the case, the important thing is that Manning denies the cheating accusation immediately. He can take his time on the legal end, because it's such an easy case.

Al Jazeera ran a story based entirely on circumstantial evidence from a single and rather unreliable source. Again, that is not journalism.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Instead, Al-Jazeera dressed it up like The National Enquirer, framed it in an emotional "what-if" context, and thoroughly trashed Manning's reputation.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Al Jazeera ran a story based entirely on circumstantial evidence from a single and rather unreliable source. Again, that is not journalism.

I'm not sure that I buy the argument that it is at a National Enquirer level. In my opinion, that would be more along the lines of "Anonymous Source says that Ashley Manning had HGH shipped to her." Here we have an identified individual making the claims. That person is verified as an employee (or intern) at the clinic the Manning's frequented.

I'll also post these comments, regarding the retraction:

“Charlie Sly’s denial came something like three and a half weeks after we contacted him to tell him precisely what was in the program. He didn’t reply to us,” Davies said, per ESPN’s Darren Rovell. “You have to question whether someone who’s spoken to you for twenty-plus hours, when they don’t know they’re being filmed, says one thing when they certainly have something to hide."

“You’ve seen drugs in his fridge. You’ve seen a baseball player turn up at his apartment. Do you believe what he said when he didn’t realize there was anything to hide, or do you believe what he says when he knows he’s about to be exposed?”

Charles Sly claimed he could supply them with drugs, was able to supply them with drugs, and had an MLB ball player show up at his apartment and talk about being supplied with drugs by Sly. That gives him a bit of credibility in my book. With that said, it obviously doesn't make everything he says true but see below.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

No idea. Why would an intern in the pharmacy know anything more than shipping labels? He wouldn't meet Manning as part of a team - not even to get his sneakers signed.

He obviously knew that the Manning's were clients there, knew that they attended after hours, and presumably knew that Ashley Manning had a prescription for something. That or he got lucky and guessed at all of these things which the Manning's then verified. I'm guessing an intern pharmacist is a lot closer to an articling lawyer than some sort of different type of internship and probably works closely with the pharmacist to learn the trade.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We don't know that it was illegally prescribed. We don't know what it was for. Ashley Manning is a private individual, and if it was legally prescribed for her (even if the prescription itself violates medical rules), this is likely a huge problem for the clinic under HIPAA and a probable libel issue for Al Jazeera in terms of airing private facts about a private individual.

I'll agree that there are some major HIPPA issues. I'll also reiterate that there are only three reasons one can legally be prescribed HGH, those being HIV wasting, growth hormone deficiency or short bowel syndrome. From what I understand, you would not go to an anti-aging doctor if the matter related to any of those issues. Therefore it is much more likely than not that it would be illegally prescribed, again assuming that it was prescribed and shipped to her (which to this point no one is denying).

[EagleFan]

It's a witch hunt being led by a station that is irrelevant. Don't let the agenda poison your brain, nothing good can come from it.

[QuikSand]

I confess I lack the discipline/patience to read through everything here, much less any source material, on the HGH story.

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

If this turns out to be a situation where Ashley Manning was having HGH illegally prescribed to her off-label and she was actually the one using the HGH coincidentally during the same time frame that the her husband was recovering from stem cell therapy (a treatment aided by the use of HGH), then I feel really bad for the guy.

I'll endorse this capsule, though.

Bottom line is...how wrong is it for a somewhat engaged sports fan like me to basically conclude "smoke...fire" every time we hear about PEDs? We have heard this whole line so many times, some variation on the poppyseed bagel or oxygen tank or whatever... and how many times have we really felt like players were being treated totally unfairly? Forgive me/us if I/we basically fall into the trap of writing off another seemingly great sports comeback/breakthrough story as a product of banned/illegal chemistry or other practices.

For reference, here's some commentary from this forum from the long-forgotten(?) episode where Sammy Sosa was caught cheating with a corked bat:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

No matter how I feel about people prior to such a circumstance, my initial inclination when someone faces a major disgrace is to assume that everything that leaves their mouth in describing the circumstance is a lie. It's a shame that I feel that way, but it's experience-driven.

Every guy who gets nabbed in a cathouse was "just asking directions." Every politician who gets nailed taking a wad of cash from an illegal contributor was "a misunderstanding." Every athlete who gets caught positive for drugs of steroids was "using cold medicine" or "eating a poppyseed bagel" or somesuch. I suppose that there's 1 in 100 of these people who are telling the truth, and it's a shame that those few get caught up with the rest of them.

You get caught cheating in baseball? In my book, you're a cheater. You then start with a story about how you're innocent? Now you're a liar, too.

Sorry, Sammy. Wish it hadn't happened.

It's been a long time since that happened, but I'm still right there and I've got a lot of company.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It's been a long time since that happened, but I'm still right there and I've got a lot of company.

+1

I am a lot less interested in this story to go and exhaustively read all of the sources because I have no vested feelings with the matter. I think regardless of whether Peyton used HGH, he's still a basically decent guy by most standards of people, from what we can see & know about him from afar. I'll still like him for what I presume to be a clean career up until that injury. Not unlike my view of Roger Clemens who was great & headed into decline after 1996 and then somehow revitalizes his career at age 34 which had been trending downward for 4 straight years, and somehow got better in the era of steroid hitting batters.

But in the end, we're talking about a lot of potential motivation here to get back on the field and cement his legacy...and thats not even including the short & long term monetary aspects.

I'm not concluding he did anything wrong based on what I've seen so far (admittedly limited). But I also can't be shocked any more to think it impossible that Manning would do it, under the right confluence of circumstances. And his neck injury, just when he was about to cement his HoF resume, qualifies well enough for such a circumstance imho.

[stevew]

Why is HGH illegal if it's supposedly a enhancement to things like stem cell therapy. I kinda want guys to be able to heal up from serious injuries as quickly as possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And in other related news (see up the thread)

Al-Jazeera America says we’re done |

Network will be shut down by April, per announcement made today.