WW-Pokemon Day Three Deadline 4/15 10 PM

[fontisian]

It's alright, Charlie Brown.

[timmae]

Just checking back in as I have a doctors apt this afternoon and then need to go buy a new laptop. I'll be checking in via smartphone... thankfully it's only D1. I'll definitely be back for a review prior to the 9pm CST lynch.

[Vaimes]

Like I said, if you're town, my claim is completely irrelevant to you.

Scumteam: I have trueclaimed a PR on Day 1 before, just so you all know.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

Like I said, if you're town, my claim is completely irrelevant to you.

Scumteam: I have trueclaimed a PR on Day 1 before, just so you all know.

I think my confusion over Vaimes' post might just be down to nomenclature and commonspeak on other WW boards. Like, what does PR stand for?

I guess I just don't understand the benefit for a false claim as one of your first posts on D1. It came off to me more as being serious than a jokey early post. So, I guess you're trying to screw with the wolves and give them something to consider for a N1 kill (which are usually hard to base on in-thread posts and tend to gravitate towards vet players who could theoretically do the most damage if you're looking for a random seer hit). In that event, I guess I get it.

[The Jackal]

I'll never get used to "scum" as the term for wolves. They're wolves, damnit.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 110

Vaimes 2- The Jackal(77), Britrock(115)
Britrock 2-JAG(59), Autumn(107)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Cheekimonk 2-Shoveler(63), Path(133)
Fontisian 2-EagleFan(96), Cheekimonk(150)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
Autumn 1-Timmae(99)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[fontisian]

Jackal: PR means power role, i.e. any role that isn't vanilla.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Jackal: PR means power role, i.e. any role that isn't vanilla.

Aha! Thanks. Maybe false claims are more prevalent elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing them very often here - that's what threw me off.

[Autumn]

Yeah, I think that's a move that's a shocker here, but just a culture clash thing.

[The Jackal]

unvote vaimes
vote cheekimonk

[The Jackal]

Partially because of his reaction towards Grover's question, partially for this:

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

unvote Grover
vote fontisian

(I feel that's likely to change...)

I've done it too, but pre-empting your vote by saying it's likely to change always feels too much like giving yourself loopholes for future explanation.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Brit, I actually voted for EF in post 61.

When will you get tired of being wrong? This will be the 3rd game in a row that all I see from you is EF is a wolf!!!! You'll be 0 for 3. I guess if you keep doing that long enough you'll eventually be right (and I bet with a "see I told you" reaction when that eventually happens). Kids today...

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'll never get used to "scum" as the term for wolves. They're wolves, damnit.

Amen bruthah!!!!


Now, as for the reveal from Vaimes, that serves no one any good. If you have a role that would hurt the wolves if they go after you, why tell them?

It looks like someone setting themselves up for an explanation of why they haven't been night killed later in the game.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

When will you get tired of being wrong? This will be the 3rd game in a row that all I see from you is EF is a wolf!!!! You'll be 0 for 3. I guess if you keep doing that long enough you'll eventually be right (and I bet with a "see I told you" reaction when that eventually happens). Kids today...

I thought you were town in the last two games? And I was scum three games ago and looking for mislynches?

What?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

I thought you were town in the last two games? And I was scum three games ago and looking for mislynches?

What?

This is game number 3. BG two games ago and you came after me day one, luckily there wasn't anyone voting me (seems I had a carry over good will from running the previous game). Last game I was seer and you were leading the charge. Now this game. 0 for 3.

[fontisian]

Uh. No?

I never voted for you in either game. You were actually my strongest townread in Drenai.

[EagleFan]

A rash of false claims doesn't do the village any good. Have seen this happen in other forums and all it ever does it lead to more confusion for the village.

My favorite was a vanilla false claiming seer which led to the duke changing the vote and he ended up lynching the real seer on day one.

[Narcizo]

I'm kind of leaning towards Eagle being village.

I tend to agree about fake reveals. I think the risk is that discussion of roles might lead to a slip up by the actual power roles.

[path12]

I've no problems with the Vaimes true/false claim. Anything that makes it tougher for the wolves is fine by me. I also think it is good to get some new (for our site) strategies in play. I think it works better though with multiple claims.

[The Jackal]

It's my own fault for making it a talking point and thereby potentially being more distracting to the village than wolves, but I agree that it's been nice to get some different styles to mix shit up

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Uh. No?

I never voted for you in either game. You were actually my strongest townread in Drenai.

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.

[Raven]

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.

It's all good. I was just really confused by your reaction.

Keeping in mind that I did actually read you correctly in the last two games, what do you think of my case here?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Raven

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

I broke it up by putting cheeki on 3 votes

[Narcizo]

I'm guessing the wolves would have discussed Vaimes reveal and would have settled on what the martyr role does. Eagle's apparent intrepretation of the role doesn't fit with what the role means and I find that unlikely if its been discussed by the wolves.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

It's all good. I was just really confused by your reaction.

Keeping in mind that I did actually read you correctly in the last two games, what do you think of my case here?

You read me correctly two games ago, we were both out early last game so no idea how you read me. As for your read this game, I know it is wrong.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I'm guessing the wolves would have discussed Vaimes reveal and would have settled on what the martyr role does. Eagle's apparent intrepretation of the role doesn't fit with what the role means and I find that unlikely if its been discussed by the wolves.

Where are you seeing EF's "apparent interpretation of the role"?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Raven

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

Can you say why you think a 6-way tie is a good thing at this stage, Raven?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Where are you seeing EF's "apparent interpretation of the role"?

Here.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If you have a role that would hurt the wolves if they go after you, why tell them?

[cheekimonk]

I thought his claim was a joke last night. Agree that the confusion only helps wolves...

unvote fontisian
vote Vaimes

[The Jackal]

Ahh

[The Jackal]

Certainly an interesting choice for a role name with that description, wonder if the confusion was intentional

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

A rash of false claims doesn't do the village any good. Have seen this happen in other forums and all it ever does it lead to more confusion for the village.

My favorite was a vanilla false claiming seer which led to the duke changing the vote and he ended up lynching the real seer on day one.

I agree. It's one of the manifestations of "hero play" (almost always by villagers, FWIW) that often sets back the village as a whole. The pro-social play and the best play one can possibly make as an individual don't always line up.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.

TBF, she was after you hard in your turn as seer, IIRC.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Raven

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

WOLFTELL! (lol)

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by britrock88

TBF, she was after you hard in your turn as seer, IIRC.

?

When was this?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I thought his claim was a joke last night. Agree that the confusion only helps wolves...

unvote fontisian
vote Vaimes

This is starting to smell of desperation. You seem to have gone 360 on the whole Vaimes thing in the space of a few hours. Going from voting someone for questioning Vaimes to voting for Vaimes.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Can you say why you think a 6-way tie is a good thing at this stage, Raven?

Day 1 and still plenty of time to go. I want to see how things play out when votes start to shift.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

This is starting to smell of desperation. You seem to have gone 360 on the whole Vaimes thing in the space of a few hours. Going from voting someone for questioning Vaimes to voting for Vaimes.

Seemed like too obviously questioning something I thought was an obvious joke. Vaimes hasn't helped clear up the confusion since then, however. I'm vanilla village...just trying to read something on D1.

[fontisian]

I think cheeki is town.

[Chief Rum]

I really don't like Vaimes' decision to reveal.

If he is still alive tomorrow, I'll vote for him unless a good candidate shows up. My presumption is the wolves will kill him tonight, because why keep a cleared villager around? Vaimes protecting himself does no good; he'll just die. And going for Vaimes means they won't have a situation where they go somewhere else, Vaimes protects that person and dies, and maybe the target gleans info on them from the kill attempt.

For now, since no one is countering on Vaimes, I will presume he is what he says he is, even if I don't like that he revealed.

If he is a wolf, I hope the actual Martyr is not revealing and dropping hints about Vaimes' wolfishness. It's quite possible this is just an attempt to draw out a reveal.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 190


Cheekimonk 3-Shoveler(63), Path(133), The Jackal(160)
Vaimes 2- Britrock(115), Cheekimonk(179)
Britrock 2-JAG(59), Autumn(107)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Autumn 2-Timmae(99), Raven(171)
Fontisian 1-EagleFan(96)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[Narcizo]

I've got to go and don't like the candidates at the moment. So I'm torn between layong my vote on one of the leading candidates or, well, not. I always try to vote for someone I reckon will be in the running. My only non-village read of those with more than one vote is Brit but I suspect Jag and Autumn will be moving. Actually Autumn could be a wolf, but I don't think the village benefits from getting rid of one of the more talkative people around on day one. Ah sod it!

unvote JAG
Vote britrock

[path12]

Y'know what? They might be moving but I got a weird vibe from Brit's first posts as well so:

UNVOTE CHEEKIMONK
VOTE BRITROCK88

[Grover]

I'm very torn on Vaimes right now.

If he's claiming immediately, that's either ballsy or stupid.

If he's claiming to throw the wolves off, I think that hurts us. Either he gets lynched tonight, because the wolves don't want to take a chance on him being truthful, or he survives and becomes a huge lynch target for us tomorrow.

I'm torn on him. I don't want to vote for him at this stage though.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Grover

If he's claiming immediately, that's either ballsy or stupid.

I don't think it is either, but it is an unfamiliar play here and as such I'm in favor as I've mentioned earlier.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't think it is either, but it is an unfamiliar play here and as such I'm in favor as I've mentioned earlier.

Unfamiliar to what gain? I can accept not knowing how we play here from a guy with experience playing different sorts of games elsewhere, but I am trying to understand the logic of it from Vaimes the Martyr's point of view.

I don't see the upside to this move.

I won't vote him right now because I don't want to lose one of our two villager roles if we lynch him when he's telling the truth, but I don't like to see nonsensical moves from players in key roles. That move works elsewhere? Great. Does that work here? Not so sure.

[fontisian]

Guys, the roleclaim is just wifom.

It's like me claiming a cop right now. Maybe I am the cop, but odds are I'm not, and me saying so really isn't a predictor of my actual role. Get it?

[Shoveler]

Path, what exactly caused you to move to brit so fast from his early posts?

I'll be honest I didn't like having my initial nonsense vote on cheeki helping put him in the lead, but you flipped right after narc for a reason I cant seem to identify.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Guys, the roleclaim is just wifom.

It's like me claiming a cop right now. Maybe I am the cop, but odds are I'm not, and me saying so really isn't a predictor of my actual role. Get it?

No, I don't get it. What is the strategic value for a villager to do this?

Is WIFOM purely a phrase that came into existence over at BGG? I don't even understand where that idiom comes from (other than the inference that you play the hand you're dealt, I guess).

[path12]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Path, what exactly caused you to move to brit so fast from his early posts?

I'll be honest I didn't like having my initial nonsense vote on cheeki helping put him in the lead, but you flipped right after narc for a reason I cant seem to identify.

I think Brit knows the move Vaimes made and pretended he didn't. I know that vote right after Narc raises eyebrows and as such is not something I'd usually do but I agree with Narc that the early votes on Brit have a possibility of moving and I wanted to at least place it somewhere that I feel decent on day 1 before the possibility was off the table.

Also I was planning on moving off Cheeki anyway because of later posts so it seemed like a good time.