Shooting at Connecticut School

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by cmp

With the way everything is going right now who knows what he actually even knew at that point.

And I don't think I'd consider making 4 posts over the span of 10 minutes, "spending the afternoon bitching on facebook." Especially since he probably had a lot of people he knew (and other he didn't) trying to contact him as soon as his name went out.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by cmp

With the way everything is going right now who knows what he actually even knew at that point.

If you aren't aware of all the details, if your mom teaches at a school that has a shooting with scores of dead, and the media names you as the killer, your first reaction probably shouldn't be to update your Facebook status to proclaim yourself as not the killer.

I know that if I were in that situation I wouldn't even remember that Facebook exists.

[Young Drachma]

I think we should continue to rush to judgment and assume that how we'd react is how everyone should react. Such behavior is constructive and very helpful.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

If you aren't aware of all the details, if your mom teaches at a school that has a shooting with scores of dead, and the media names you as the killer, your first reaction probably shouldn't be to update your Facebook status to proclaim yourself as not the killer.

I know that if I were in that situation I wouldn't even remember that Facebook exists.

Based on his posts he was sitting on a bus home from work. What the hell else are you going to do? What better way to get the word out. Ultimately who the fuck cares anyway.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

If you aren't aware of all the details

No way for me to know what he did or didn't know but ... my reading of that was the he didn't have the foggiest idea his mom's school was involved or anything other than he had the same name as some shooter somewhere.

edit to add: My wife just mentioned this kernel of the story, so I went & dug it out of another article "Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010." The shooter lived with the mother, the brother apparently did not.

[Sun Tzu]

Why the hell are people in this thread getting upset about the Brother?

Christ, get a grip.

[Sun Tzu]

Pulled from a friends Facebook feed:

This reminds me of Hannah Arendt, who covered Adolf Eichmann’s Nazi War trial for the New Yorker. She coined the phrase “the banality of evil” because she saw how ordinary, regular, everyday German citizens did horrible things.

I think these mass-shooters are these ordinary people. They’re not super-villains, which conservatives like to focus on. “Gee whiz, what a bad person!” A lot of them are young dudes. Young, confused angry men are a dime-a-dozen. They’re not extra-ordinary. They’re regular guys that we all grew up around. They exist everywhere, but most of them just grow up or whiter away in some less spectacular fashion.

Conservatives like to focus on bad character as the problem (people kill people, guns don’t kill people) but then they certainly change their tune when it comes to Iran getting the bomb. Suddenly they understand that Ahmadinejad himself won’t kill everyone, but that the weapon will kill everyone.

If you haven’t noticed by now, our wonderful country is filled with little Ahmadinejad’s who on a bad day, will resort to killing as many people as they can.

[cougarfreak]

I just ran up to my school to get a set of rubrics for AP Essays I was grading tonight. Flag wasn't at half mast, so I did it myself. Came home. Spent time with my daughter and son instead of grading. I can't fathom what these parents, teachers, and community are going through. I tell myself I can't be a hero in this type of situation, that I've got my own kids to think about and live for, but I know I couldn't leave my class kids either. Unthinkable.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Pulled from a friends Facebook feed:

Should belong in the facebook post

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Should belong in the facebook post

Sure thing, Pedro.

[MrBug708]

Whose Pedro?

[Logan]

Reporter broke news to father of suspect - StamfordAdvocate

[Buccaneer]

I have a friend who lives in Newtown and he said that there is an incredible amount of shock and sadness as he went around town to do errands today. I can't imagine the grief of the families involved.

The inherent nature of evil and sin rears its ugly head once again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've pondered the role of "evil" in this incident (you can likely guess what the commentary on my FB wall looks like) ... I'm not sure at this point that's what I see here.

IF some of the details about the shooter provided so far prove to be right, I'm thinking this is actually something different, maybe subtly. To this point I'm not sure that the shooter perceived anything "wrong" with what he was doing, he was simply acting on his desire at that moment. Think "lack of empathy" taken to a horrifying degree.

Maybe I'm 100 miles off base, maybe they'll find pentagrams & odes to Satan in his room., just throwing out something that was part of the family conversation tonight.

[IlliniCub]

At this point I'm picking up the same vibe you are Jon and that's from someone who works with the mentally ill on a daily basis

[Autumn]

I haven't heard anything to explain it at all, but it only makes sense that it's something like that, Jon. I just can't even imagine what sort of evil intent he would have had to have had to do this. If he was not deranged in some way it's just unfathomable.

[chinaski]

and the shark has been jumped.

[King of New York]

Now there are some reports that his mother was not a teacher at Sandy Hook. And that the mother had purchased all three guns used.

[IlliniCub]

It's still evil...but is the real problem that society makes every attempt these days to try to integrate and release those who probably should be locked up

[Autumn]

Yeah, if the mother was not a teacher there I'm not getting what was going on at all. Well, I didn't get it before, but at least there was some connection.

[IlliniCub]

As an someone who works in the schools....I just am blitzed today... I saw the inital report where the school district wasn't even acknowledging it and thought if anything it was minor (not that there is a minor to those involved) but then at the end of the school day logged in and saw the toal and was floored....I wondered what extremes I'd go to to protect my students....and it kind of shatters the safety of my quality world

[molson]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

I saw the inital report where the school district wasn't even acknowledging it and thought if anything it was minor

Just as a random thought, the first I heard of this was literally a report that a "teacher had been shot in the foot." Things escalated quite a bit from there, unfortunately.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No way for me to know what he did or didn't know but ... my reading of that was the he didn't have the foggiest idea his mom's school was involved or anything other than he had the same name as some shooter somewhere.

edit to add: My wife just mentioned this kernel of the story, so I went & dug it out of another article "Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010." The shooter lived with the mother, the brother apparently did not.

Yeah, I think people should give the brother some slack till more details come in. This could have just been a guy who was going about his business, saw a bunch of shit on his Facebook feed, got angry and went on his day. Then realized later on that it was his brother and Mom's school.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Why the hell are people in this thread getting upset about the Brother?

Christ, get a grip.

Not getting upset here. Just finding it odd... not that anything can actually be considered even close to being normal when something like this happens.

That article about the father is a bit too detailed. Horribly written. Does it matter what color shirt he was wearing? What side of the garage he parks on? It's like J. Peterman took up reporting...

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Whose Pedro?

Not mine.

[RainMaker]

I'm really confused now.

Nancy Lanza Not a Teacher? | TPM Editors Blog

[spleen1015]

rowech, I think gun laws vary by state.

Here are 2 examples of silliness with guns laws that I have encountered over the years.

When I was in the USAF, stationed in Alabama, I got a concealed weapon permit and I never showed anyone a picture id. I never had to verify my identity to anyone, never had to prove that I live in the state of Alabama. To get tags on my car, I had to have 2 forms of picture id and proof that I was a resident of the state. Fucked up?

A guy that I worked with was keeping a shotgun for his brother while his brother was have some life issues, no stable place to stay etc. My friend lives in NY. He didn't have a license or permit for the gun. He and his wife got into an argument and the neighbors called the cops. While the cops where there, the wife told them about the gun. The guy went to jail for a year because he didn't have a permit/license for the gun. NY gun laws I guess. Fucked up?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm really confused now.

Nancy Lanza Not a Teacher? | TPM Editors Blog

I'm guessing it will come out that she was a substitute teacher there and not full time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

From somebody who knows nothing about our gun laws, some questions...

State laws vary of course but ...

I believe rate of fire (automatic vs semi-automatic) is the primary restriction, not number of rounds. But there are limits on magazine size as well.

Not quite so much "basic vs advanced" but things like full automatics are limited to a relative handful of collectors that have been subject to more thorough background checks.

Mostly have to swear you aren't crazy in most states IIRC.


Big caveat here though: it does not appear that he obtained the guns legally. Reports are that they were all legally obtained & registered to his mother. The bulletproof vest he was reportedly wearing was illegal in CT.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Mostly have to swear you aren't crazy in most states IIRC.

And the way that really ends up getting categorized is whether someone has a prior conviction for either a felony, or misdemeanor domestic battery. That's a pretty easy line states can handle. But until that serious crime happens, states generally don't (or aren't legally allowed to) make any kind of attempt to determine who's just "too crazy" to legally purchase a gun.

[IlliniCub]

The way things are going I worry the next mentally disturbed/ deranged shooter is just watching the news and licking his chops

[rowech]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

The way things are going I worry the next mentally disturbed/ deranged shooter is just watching the news and licking his chops

One of the things that has worried me for a while is this whole 12/21 crap. Most people are smart enough to realize it's pure hokum but what if some insane person believes it be true and goes crazy for some reason?

[molson]

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick'

[Sun Tzu]

My goodness. Facebook is just flowing with people talking about gun control. Every conversation looks something like this:

Guy #1 says shields exist for protection, guns exist for destruction.
Guy #2 berates Guy #1 with endless personal attacks about being a "Libtard."
Wash, rinse, repeat.

Sigh. I love social networking.

[IlliniCub]

I see the same people on my Facebook who earlier in this week criticized local schools for once again taking a bomb threat so seriously (how it inconvenienced them picking up their kids and what not) falling all over themselves to post about how horrible this tragedy was. I still doubt it drove home the point to them why these local school bomb threats are taken so seriously.

[Ben E Lou]

Per police press conference a few minutes ago, he forced his way into the school.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by molson

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick'

News reporter's twitter page doesn't seem to exist anymore.

[Sun Tzu]

Seriously?

[thesloppy]

I simply can not fathom the number of people who think more guns, and armed guards and faculty in elementary schools is the solution to this problem. The thought of armed guards in elementary schools is soul-deadening to me.

I guess we'll just never know what would have happened if something like this had ever happened in a place full of CCP carrying citizens, with a proper, armed security response....like, say a mall. I worked in a mall for five years....I had to pass 3 gun stores to get there, worked with at least two folks who had CCPs and carried every day (including the mentally handicapped, 50 year-old dishwasher lady), this particular mall had an armed security force that patrolled the building and a Sheriff's office ON SITE. That mall was Clackamas Town Center.

[DanGarion]

Moderating the thread here eh? Come on...

[DanGarion]

Can someone please post in this thread how we are supposed to think and what we are supposed to say so people don't lose posts? I need to know what my opinion is so I can contribute to the conversation here.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by digamma

Honestly guys, I can't think of a worse time to start bitching about modding. Consider this a warning.

Some people just can't help themselves.

[Izulde]

Note to self: Banhammer getting swung especially hard this week.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Note to self: Banhammer getting swung especially hard this week.

No one else has been suspended or banned this week to my knowledge, though I've not been around much so maybe I missed a short one. Only the two from a few minutes ago are currently suspended, though. That I know for sure. *shurg*

[Senator]

My son is in kindergarten, so I can relate to the unfathomable fear a parent has when they leave their child in the hands of others. This is really the sum of all our fears. Words don't make me feel better.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Senator

This is really the sum of all our fears.

This is kind of where I am. I don't know if I totally ever feel comfortable again to be honest. As people here know, my family has a huge education center in it. Not only do my oldest two go to school in Connecticut, but virtually all of my family were teachers or work in schools. My wife, my mom, my grandmother, my mother in law, my father in law..

I fully understand that there has been school violence before, or even deaths in schools.. but this one just hit home the worst for me, the most helpless targets possible. How am I supposed to feel good every day letting my three daughters and virtually all of my family go to a place that seems now a days to be one of the top targets for senseless violence?

[Lathum]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

have you seen how politics works? they will exploit the dead for their own goals before the blood is mopped up. that how its always been.

[molson]

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by rowech

One of the things that has worried me for a while is this whole 12/21 crap. Most people are smart enough to realize it's pure hokum but what if some insane person believes it be true and goes crazy for some reason?

I've been wondering about that a little, too. Sadly, I'm a little glad that I'll be flying that day as, frankly, incompetent tho they may be and as much as I've railed against them (and will continue to do so), the TSA would deter most nutjobs into find an easier target.

SI