Youth Sports Parents are Awful People #10,783

[JPhillips]

Ten and under rec leagues should be measured by how many kids come back to play the following year. Every kid driven from the sport when they are that young is a failure. Develop skills and keep kids interested. There's plenty of time for hyper-competitive leagues after 10.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Ten and under rec leagues should be measured by how many kids come back to play the following year. Every kid driven from the sport when they are that young is a failure. Develop skills and keep kids interested. There's plenty of time for hyper-competitive leagues after 10.

This is a really good comment

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There's plenty of time for hyper-competitive leagues after 10.

If you haven't instilled a desire to excel by 10, it's very likely too late.
Those kids are destined for accepting mediocrity.

If that's all the programs are doing, then just end them, they're actually detrimental to society at that point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

WTF is going on that 8 y/o can't make at least occasional plays?

There is no worse disservice to kids than not giving them a legal chance to win, enroll them in an exercise class rather than a competitive sport if that's the attitude.

I'm glad mine aged out and I'd pray that I never have grandkids who play that I have to watch. Not sending runners when they could score would land me in prison.

I think the disconnect here is baseball in the south vs baseball in the north. In the northern states rec leagues under 10 have a massive gap in skill levels from player to player and sometimes from team to team. It's really difficult to find serious or even somewhat serious baseball at that age without shelling out a few thousand dollars as a parent. So what you end up with is mostly teams with 1-2 really good players on them and a mixed bag from there all the way down to the kid had never held a baseball or softball before their parents made them sign up to go make friends.

My experience coaching up here showed me to teach the kids the right way to play baseball. There are far too many teams in the 8-12 range up there that run their kids non stop and think they're teaching them baseball because they win a ton of games in those ages, but when those kids that everyone thought were good join your team when they're a bit older you find out they don't have the slightest idea of how to actually play the game. They can't read pitchers or perform a lot of the most basic fundamentals because they played the games that were more like track meets. I've seen a lot of kids like that first hand and their parents get pissed when they're not starting on a select team at 13-14 and even more pissed when their kid doesn't make the high school team.

I know the south can be a lot different. With some rec leagues in those age ranges looking more like select leagues in the northern states.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I know the south can be a lot different. With some rec leagues in those age ranges looking more like select leagues in the northern states.

And baseball is no more than the #3 or #4 sport even here at this point.

[Flasch186]

Jon

You should just come watch for a week

I’m coaching 11/12u baseball rec and it’s an abject disaster

I’m having to coach the parents to spend time playing catch at home because there’s kids who can’t catch, can’t throw, and some who can’t do either.

The idea of even talking wins and losses versus discounting those completely in front of the parents, while risking Uber dad being mad for not throat stepping other teams, would be higher risk in that we go o-10 and the kids are mad because at the beginning of the season I set the bat based on that. I told the parents I don’t care about wins and losses at the end of the game as that’s uncontrollable. I couched it with let’s try to win more pitches than the other team and then we have a chance to win… see what I did there? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

The year, probably when she was 8, my daughter played on a softball team that lost all of their games was the year that she developed the most. She was never a great player, but she played until she started high school and flirted with the idea of trying out for the high school team.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Maybe this just isn't a sort of league I'm familiar with.

Even at the rec level - i.e. disregarding full-time travel teams -- everywhere I'm familiar with is competitive by that age, not always very good to be sure, but the basics are intact for enough players that the game is recognizable. Maybe those exist, I just don't have anyone involved with them to be aware of it.

I wonder if this is considered an instructional league. The fall rec baseball and softball leagues around here are considered instructional and definitely not competitive. There are rule adjustments to make it that way. I coached fall ball last year. The disparity of talent and knowledge of the game was vast. We had a couple of kids who took the fall travel season off, just played rec. They spent the season learning new positions and hitting everything to the opposite field. We also had two or three kids who had never played baseball before. We literally had to tell them to drop the bat and come down to first because they had "earned" a walk.

For me the key detail in Lathum's story is the HC's decision to coach third base in the last inning. It seems weird that the HC wouldn't be coaching third already if giving signs, learning signs and being super aggressive on the base paths were so important to him.

If he was playing to win at all costs in that last inning, then he should have been playing to win at all costs for the whole game. Making the switch in the last inning and taking advantage of the other team's lack of ability feels like he was breaking the spirit of how the game was being played in every inning up to that point.

That being said, since we are being competitive, I am assuming the girl who forgot to run will be running the stadium stairs to teach her to keep her head in the game?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I wonder if this is considered an instructional league. ... There are rule adjustments to make it that way.

And if that's the case then playing within those rules is a different story. I just saw no indication that was the case.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Jon

You should just come watch for a week

I’m coaching 11/12u baseball rec and it’s an abject disaster

I’m having to coach the parents to spend time playing catch at home because there’s kids who can’t catch, can’t throw, and some who can’t do either.

The idea of even talking wins and losses versus discounting those completely in front of the parents, while risking Uber dad being mad for not throat stepping other teams, would be higher risk in that we go o-10 and the kids are mad because at the beginning of the season I set the bat based on that. I told the parents I don’t care about wins and losses at the end of the game as that’s uncontrollable. I couched it with let’s try to win more pitches than the other team and then we have a chance to win… see what I did there? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you dig waaaay back, I've been in something close to that situation myself. And a couple decades before that, my special coaching project was the one kid on a team who was that kid amongst a reasonably talented group
in a highly competitive league. I believe I told the story of his game-winning bunt single at some point, one of my happiest moments on a field as a player or coach.

You may not be able to go 10-0 if you're in a tough talent situation, but you never don't try to give those kids their best chance to win.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Jon

You should just come watch for a week

I’m coaching 11/12u baseball rec and it’s an abject disaster

I’m having to coach the parents to spend time playing catch at home because there’s kids who can’t catch, can’t throw, and some who can’t do either.

The idea of even talking wins and losses versus discounting those completely in front of the parents, while risking Uber dad being mad for not throat stepping other teams, would be higher risk in that we go o-10 and the kids are mad because at the beginning of the season I set the bat based on that. I told the parents I don’t care about wins and losses at the end of the game as that’s uncontrollable. I couched it with let’s try to win more pitches than the other team and then we have a chance to win… see what I did there? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you dig waaaay back, I've been in something close to that situation myself. And a couple decades before that, my special coaching project was the one kid on a team who was that kid amongst a reasonably talented group
in a highly competitive league. I believe I told the story of his game-winning bunt single at some point, one of my happiest moments on a field as a player or coach.

You may not be able to go 10-0 if you're in a tough talent situation, but you never don't try to give those kids their best chance to win.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And if that's the case then playing within those rules is a different story. I just saw no indication that was the case.

I bow to Atocep's knowledge in this area but it feels like fall baseball and softball have a completely different vibe when compared to the spring. It seems to be much more about skills development and an introduction to the game than the outcome of the game in the fall. So yeah, it would be less important to send a kid from second to home on a defensive miscue to win a game than it would be to hold that kid up at third and get the next kid up a chance to hit and drive in a run. In the spring? Definitely sending the kid home.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I bow to Atocep's knowledge in this area but it feels like fall baseball and softball have a completely different vibe when compared to the spring. It seems to be much more about skills development and an introduction to the game than the outcome of the game in the fall. So yeah, it would be less important to send a kid from second to home on a defensive miscue to win a game than it would be to hold that kid up at third and get the next kid up a chance to hit and drive in a run. In the spring? Definitely sending the kid home.

That's a disintinction I can't draw, it's pretty much a year-round sport here (not just for travel teams, HS plays separate fast-pitch and slow-pitch seasons, one in spring & one in fall. I can't keep straight which done when). I think rec leagues are spring BUT I'm not sure how many pure rec leagues are even left at this point, seems like most travel to some extent anymore for softball.

[JPhillips]

The competitiveness at a young age helps kill interest in the sport and, around here, that makes it nearly impossible to have a league. When my daughter started at 5, there were four teams. By the time she got to late elementary, there was one. All the other towns in the county had the same problem, so they all banded together to make a county league.

Keeping kids interested and engaged should be a big part of the job for those first few years.

[spleen1015]

The leagues need to adopt rules to prevent this sort of BS. The league by daughter played in when she was 8 had a rule that you could only take 1 base on an overthrow to keep the game some what realistic. They also had a max runs per inning rule.

I don't think the ultra-competitiveness is the reason kids quit playing. I think they learn that they don't like to play or they would rather spend their time doing something else.

It all depends on the kid.

[cuervo72]

I think it really does depend on the kid.

I remember my son playing sports when he was young. Rec soccer, he'd be flying around like an airplane or off climbing a tree. T-ball, he'd gather weeds and make "salad" in a pile near second base. Couldn't give two shits about the game.

Is he just not competitive by nature? Well, I'd invite you to listen to his profanity-laced tirades while playing something like LoL to answer that question.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The competitiveness at a young age helps kill interest in the sport

Without that, wtf is there to be interested IN?

Kids are either cut out for it or they're not. There's nothing wrong with "not" but don't bastardize the sport into something unrecognizable.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Without that, wtf is there to be interested IN?

Kids are either cut out for it or they're not. There's nothing wrong with "not" but don't bastardize the sport into something unrecognizable.

Youth sports have already been bastardized Jon. There are two distinctive camps in youth sports now. Pay to Play and Recreational. Yes you still are paying for the recreational leagues but you get the idea. That coach is in the Pay to Play camp. He is asking more of the recreational league structure than the recreational league structure can provide him. Most of the kids who are more talented and/or more competitive for the recreational structure will go the Pay to Play route eventually. I am not throwing shade at them. That is what my son has done. My suggestion for the coach and the kids that wanted to win that badly is to go and join or even better yet start their own 8U team and compete against kids and coaches that are in a similar camp as he is. Nothing is wrong with that either. He does not need to try and turn the recreational league into something it is obviously not.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Without that, wtf is there to be interested IN?

Kids are either cut out for it or they're not. There's nothing wrong with "not" but don't bastardize the sport into something unrecognizable.

This is such a jaded view of it.

How about fun, learning to be part of a team, doing something with your friends, getting exercise, loving to play the game, etc...

trust me, parents are WAY more interested in wins and losses than the kids are.

[miami_fan]

BTW the exception to what I said above is youth football. One camp, ultra competitive.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Without that, wtf is there to be interested IN?

Kids are either cut out for it or they're not. There's nothing wrong with "not" but don't bastardize the sport into something unrecognizable.

8 year-old softball is already unrecognizable. I don't think town rec leagues should be built around driving three quarters of the participants out in a matter of two or three years.

I'm with Lathum, there are a lot of reasons to play, but if winning is the only measure of success at an age where few of them have developed much in the way of skills, you're just going to end up driving them out of the sport. At the rec league level, there's nothing wrong with building programs where young kids can have fun and learn skills.

Maybe town rec leagues are different from place to place, but where I'm at there was at least one girl that had never played every year my daughter played.A rec league is a great place for those kids to be given an opportunity to develop and make friends.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Youth sports have already been bastardized Jon. There are two distinctive camps in youth sports now. Pay to Play and Recreational. Yes you still are paying for the recreational leagues but you get the idea. That coach is in the Pay to Play camp. He is asking more of the recreational league structure than the recreational league structure can provide him. Most of the kids who are more talented and/or more competitive for the recreational structure will go the Pay to Play route eventually. I am not throwing shade at them. That is what my son has done. My suggestion for the coach and the kids that wanted to win that badly is to go and join or even better yet start their own 8U team and compete against kids and coaches that are in a similar camp as he is. Nothing is wrong with that either. He does not need to try and turn the recreational league into something it is obviously not.

What do the kids do that can't afford pay to play?

I was at my 10yr (good athlete not hyper competitive) and 7 yr old (very good athlete, hates to lose, hyper competitive, and already a thinker while on the field) granddaughter's soccer games a couple of weeks ago, they play in the park and rec leagues. This is the Des Moines and surrounding towns area, not limited to small pool of players like the small town I'm from where my kids grew up playing. It was competitive, some girls were lost, others trying very hard. Nobody held back but, also, nobody (coaches or parents) were yelling at or about the lesser talented players. It seemed as if nothing had changed from my years coaching little\junior league baseball 20-30 yrs ago. I was actually impressed with the level of play for kids that young.

I commented to my son on the nice facilities and the huge number of kids. He said there was also pay leagues for the totally serious, that parents paid $5k plus for their kids to play. When he said what AAU coaches were making I told him (he's a basketball coach) he should quit his teaching job and start his own AAU team (jokingly ). They can afford to have the girls play in the pay leagues but think it's a joke for most of the players. My son says the "lower tier player's" parents don't understand "junior" isn't that good, gets very little quality coaching, and their 5k pays for the few at the top to travel all over for tournaments.

I think a large number of members here can afford the pay to play leagues. Comments come out "well there is pay to play" for those that want. However, some of us (me 20-30 yrs ago) could never afford such a thing. Yes, youth sports have been bastardized. Like many things the "haves" get theirs.

To be clear I don't agree with the coach, in this example, taking over at third. Bad form taking advantage in the last inning. I have no problem if he's there all game playing that way, though a "one base on overthrow" rule at that age would be appropriate. But when it's thrown out "it's a rec league", as a "have not" I have to think "well that's too bad", it's the only league my child has as an option.

[miami_fan]

What do the kids do that can't afford pay to play?

They would play rec ball although, given the prices of the rec leagues for baseball/softball, basketball, and soccer at least locally, that may not be an option for many either.

I was at my 10yr (good athlete not hyper competitive) and 7 yr old (very good athlete, hates to lose, hyper competitive, and already a thinker while on the field) granddaughter's soccer games a couple of weeks ago, they play in the park and rec leagues. This is the Des Moines and surrounding towns area, not limited to small pool of players like the small town I'm from where my kids grew up playing. It was competitive, some girls were lost, others trying very hard. Nobody held back but, also, nobody (coaches or parents) were yelling at or about the lesser talented players. It seemed as if nothing had changed from my years coaching little\junior league baseball 20-30 yrs ago. I was actually impressed with the level of play for kids that young.

What you are describing here is the ideal experience. Especially that highlighted part. I wish that league stays that way for eternity. Here is the important question. Was anyone upset that one team did not take target the weaknesses of the kids who were lost?

I think a large number of members here can afford the pay to play leagues. Comments come out "well there is pay to play" for those that want. However, some of us (me 20-30 yrs ago) could never afford such a thing. Yes, youth sports have been bastardized. Like many things the "haves" get theirs.

Most of the parents in the neighborhood I grew up in could not have afforded pay for play back then. Mine definitely could not. That meant that most kids were playing rec leagues. That is not the case at least for baseball and soccer today with basketball barely hanging on. For example, during my son's time in rec baseball, we went from 12 rec teams for the minors age group, 8 teams for the majors age group (think Little League World Series) to three teams for the Juniors age group. Most of the players that left are playing for travel ball teams. Most of the kids/parents that stayed or left and came back did so may or may not be able to afford it. Those that did and came back say that they came back to rec ball because the rec leagues had a different vibe when compared to travel ball. I think it is worth preserving that vibe if that is what they are looking for.

To be clear I don't agree with the coach, in this example, taking over at third. Bad form taking advantage in the last inning. I have no problem if he's there all game playing that way, though a "one base on overthrow" rule at that age would be appropriate. But when it's thrown out "it's a rec league", as a "have not" I have to think "well that's too bad", it's the only league my child has as an option.

I agree with this. If it came across as me denigrating the rec leagues, that was not my intention at all. All I am saying is if there is a place for a "take advantage of everything in order to win in youth sports" approach (I'll let others make that call), the rec leagues of 2021 aren't that place IMO.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

They would play rec ball although, given the prices of the rec leagues for baseball/softball, basketball, and soccer at least locally, that may not be an option for many either.



What you are describing here is the ideal experience. Especially that highlighted part. I wish that league stays that way for eternity. Here is the important question. Was anyone upset that one team did not take target the weaknesses of the kids who were lost?



Most of the parents in the neighborhood I grew up in could not have afforded pay for play back then. Mine definitely could not. That meant that most kids were playing rec leagues. That is not the case at least for baseball and soccer today with basketball barely hanging on. For example, during my son's time in rec baseball, we went from 12 rec teams for the minors age group, 8 teams for the majors age group (think Little League World Series) to three teams for the Juniors age group. Most of the players that left are playing for travel ball teams. Most of the kids/parents that stayed or left and came back did so may or may not be able to afford it. Those that did and came back say that they came back to rec ball because the rec leagues had a different vibe when compared to travel ball. I think it is worth preserving that vibe if that is what they are looking for.



I agree with this. If it came across as me denigrating the rec leagues, that was not my intention at all. All I am saying is if there is a place for a "take advantage of everything in order to win in youth sports" approach (I'll let others make that call), the rec leagues of 2021 aren't that place IMO.

No, I didn't take it as denigrating rec leagues just a vibe of if you want to be serious about winning you should move onto pay leagues. Easy if you have the money, not so much if you don't, and still want to put in some serious effort and play to win.

I coached baseball for several years and back then in the "city league" we played to win. If I coached in a rec league now we would play to win. However I never disrespected any of the less talented players.

For clarity most of the less talented actually meant they were kids where playing ball in the yard was not a part of their family so they had no basic skills. I would work with these kids on fundamentals and for the most part those that thought they couldn't hit found out they could with proper mechanics Nothing lights up a kids eyes more who thinks he can't hit a ball, make contact in the batting cage, and then carry it to the field. Some became quite good others were at least able to make some contact while batting. I never subjected a player to the "don't swing Johnny a walks as good as a hit" BS that most other coaches did. Talk about humiliating a kid and taking away their desire, that will do it every time.

In the field the only expectation was a player make an effort to get to the ball. If you got there and it bounced out of your glove you got a pat on the back for effort. My philosophy was if I get them to enough balls they will begin to catch them, and it does work. We did play to win but if we lost due to an error, strike out, etc. it didn't matter as long as there was effort. The "good" players on my teams usually became the biggest cheerleaders for the less experienced players. In the end we never won a championship but we did win more than we lost and had fun along the way.

The parents at granddaughter's soccer games were very well behaved. There was talk on the sideline, mostly about not taking advantage of open space on the pitch. It wasn't folks yelling loudly across the pitch, just talk among different groups. There were parents, during breaks in play, telling their child "Suzy you need to run ahead and stay on your side of the field" type of things. But no, no loud criticism or people talking badly about any players, at least not within ear shot of me. I was impressed too.


Anyway I'm 25-30 years out of the picture. I know things are changing as noted by my conversation about the pay soccer leagues I had with my son. I do worry when I hear on NFL games these QB's now should be more ready to play right away as they've been coached (I assume expensive coaching) since they were 9 or 10 years old. Then add in all of the other big money play leagues (hell I have a friend who spent about $100k for his son to play hockey over the last 12-13 years including their travel expenses to see him play) and it leaves me wondering about all of the kids that are left out. Of course the "have not" world class players will, mostly, rise to the top if they aren't too jaded and get lost on the way. There will be those that spend the thousands when "junior" just isn't that good, never was, and never will be. Honestly I'm glad my kids were playing 25-30 years ago and not now.

[miami_fan]

Today's example of the thread title

But first some history..

A paraphrased conversation I had with a parent of one of my son's teammates during rec baseball in 2021:

Other Parent: I can't wait to get out of this "Daddy" ball (aka rec baseball). This coach should be playing the best players on the team in order to give the team the best chance at winning.

Me: Well having been a rec coach, I know they try to give all the kids 2-3 innings a game if they can to give the parents their money's worth.

Other Parent: I understand what you are saying but it is not fair to the other kids who are trying to win and end up losing because of kids who are not as good.

Me: Okay.

Fast forward to today.

Conversation with the same parent as we watch the travel ball team both of our sons are on play in this weekend's tournament.

Other parent: Of course my son is sitting on the bench. I am going to pull him off this team. My son has played a total of two innings so far this weekend.

(His son tried out and did not make his high school's JV team. The travel ball coach suggested he pick up pitching to add more to his resume for next year. He started and pitched one inning throwing 40+pitches in the first game and then played one inning in the outfield )

Me: Well they try not to play pitchers anywhere else in the field on the day that they pitch unless they have no other choice. In fact both of today's starting pitchers DH'd for one game and played first in the other game yesterday. My son is supposed to pitch the second game if we make it and is just DH'ing again in this game.

Other parent: I understand what you are saying but the coach needs to give everyone equal time to play. I pay a lot of money for the club fees and if he is not going to play more then I will find him another team.

Me: Ok.

That conversation happened in the first inning. His son did end coming of the bench and playing two innings in that game and the last inning as a defensive replacement in the second game of the day. I guess it's all a matter of perspective I guess.

[Atocep]

There's absolutely no pleasing anyone when it comes to youth sports.

I respected the hell out of my son's travel coach because he wasn't afraid to have the tough conversations with awful parents and was fantastic at communicating with the players. On an exit interview for one kid that had a rep mostly because of his grandparents he broke down in tears because he told the coach he didn't have anywhere else to play if they didn't bring him back the following year. The kid had bounced around and burned so many bridges because of his grandparents he would have likely had to quit baseball if that coach had given up on him.

[BYU 14]

That example is the stereotype of youth sports parent LOL

[flere-imsaho]

Spring season (soccer) is about to start back up around here. My boys have tournaments the next two weekends, so I won't be out there reffing until mid-April, but I am totally looking forward to having to explain the "new" handball rule (it changed, what, 4 years ago now) and the offside rule to both parents and coaches on an almost-every-game basis.

[Ksyrup]

Meant to post this about a month ago. This happened at our middle school but fortunately we were only hosting the middle school championship game involving two other teams, so this was not one of our parents. This dude was apparently drunk, had a gun, and I guess was pissed at one of the refs. This is during the trophy presentation.

I can't imagine how awful the kid whose parent this is felt. He probably wanted to crawl under the floor to escape. As far as the dude - I assume he went into concussion protocol and missed the next game.

Fan arrested at basketball game in Woodford County

[Lathum]

So opening day for our league is Saturday for softball and little league. We have a big parade, Americana type stuff, etc...Through the season every family has to do 4 hours working the snack shack. There is a sign up email that goes out a couple weeks prior.

I have a good friend who is divorced and her and her ex don't get along particularly well. He has been an even bigger jerk the last couple of weeks. He did agree to do snack shack duty for their family and just told her to sign him up early in the season so he could get it over with.

Part of opening day each kid gets a ticket that day at the parade for a free hotdog. My friend signed her ex up to work first shift opening day, so he is literally going to spend hours making and handing out hundreds of free hot dogs.

Next level shit.

[miked]

My son is doing both academy soccer and travel baseball (help me please) and I have to say that the baseball parents are about 100x more intense and click-y than the soccer parents. I mean, my son was not even at the tryouts because he was not feeling well and we were not sure he was going to do travel ball and we got an email asking us to join the team. I feel bad for parents that think that the travel ball tryouts are meaningful, but it is really to pick the last 20% of the team.

On a side note, my daughter does competitive gymnastics. It's very much every kid for themselves, but there is a small team aspect to it. I like that transparency a little better.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So opening day for our league is Saturday for softball and little league. We have a big parade, Americana type stuff, etc...Through the season every family has to do 4 hours working the snack shack. There is a sign up email that goes out a couple weeks prior.

I have a good friend who is divorced and her and her ex don't get along particularly well. He has been an even bigger jerk the last couple of weeks. He did agree to do snack shack duty for their family and just told her to sign him up early in the season so he could get it over with.

Part of opening day each kid gets a ticket that day at the parade for a free hotdog. My friend signed her ex up to work first shift opening day, so he is literally going to spend hours making and handing out hundreds of free hot dogs.

Next level shit.

Thats classic

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Thats classic

I mean, if I were him, I'd just have to smile and tip my hat at revenge so well and subtly played.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by miked

My son is doing both academy soccer and travel baseball (help me please) and I have to say that the baseball parents are about 100x more intense and click-y than the soccer parents.

In my experience as a parent and soccer ref, about 90% of the soccer parents are fine. Around here, at least, a lot of the parents use the game as a time to catch up.

But oh boy that other 10%.

[Ksyrup]

So this is a new one for me. We're hosting a HS softball tournament this weekend and last night we played the #3 team in the state and last year's runner-up. Catcher is committed to Auburn and several girls play high level travel ball.

So before one of the girls hit, a parent (I assume) asked our announcers to announce her as "THE" Her Name. I mean, come the fuck on. They politely declined.

I told them I would have announced her as "A" Her Name.

[Coffee Warlord]

In my son's baseball league, there's a ... ahem ... special coach we've run into every season for the last 3 years. She tries to rules lawyer everything, screams across the diamond for any who dares do anything wrong, etc, etc etc. Bear in mind, this is a rec league for kids, many of whom are learning the game. The league stresses every year, "this is an instructional league". I've had kids every year who've never played baseball at any level.

I came SO close to losing my temper with her during our game with them last year. She was on a tirade about how one of our players who made it to second dared step off the bag early pre-pitch (no leads at this level), and should be out. Note the kid wasn't trying to lead off, he just maybe took a half step off. I tried to be nice, and just replied, "Okay, I'll talk to him about it after the inning." Just would not leave it alone until I literally shouted across the diamond, "Can we just let the kid hit now?" There were a lot more colorful words I was very close to using.

Of course this was the one game the entire year where the umpires were no-shows, so we were policing ourselves. I'd talked to the umps in later games (it was almost always the same crew doing our games) and to nobody's surprise, she was a whining shrew to them as well.

The kids on their own last season nicknamed her Coach Karen.

edit: This was the same woman who, in a prior season, had a ton of no-shows for our game with 'em. Had I think 6 or 7 in the field. We let her daughter play, who was about 4 years older than the kids, and at first, we were very conservative on the base paths, so it wouldn't be an utter slaughter. That year, there was an unwritten rule among coaches that we weren't sending kids more than 1 extra base on an error. These were like 2nd - 3rd graders. We weren't even doing that this game, since they were so short-handed. She repaid us by being hyper aggressive and sending kids around the bases on everything.

[flere-imsaho]

The main competitive youth soccer league here is really struggling for refs. It's probably one of the better setups for refs, in that it's compact enough that there isn't a ton of travel, the pay is decent, the league is well-organized, and the league does a decent job of having the refs' backs.

The word I'm hearing from folks I know who officiate is that the pandemic convinced a lot of the old guys to hang it up for good, and the newer people they managed to capture usually last 1 season at most before the spectator abuse convinces them they want to spend their weekends (and some weekdays) differently.

If this league is having these problems, I can't imagine what some leagues with more difficult situations (travel, pay, lack of support) are doing about officials.

My 10-year-old went to a tournament a couple of weekends ago and they only had 1 ref per game, even at the higher ages. Just not enough refs available.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So this is a new one for me. We're hosting a HS softball tournament this weekend and last night we played the #3 team in the state and last year's runner-up. Catcher is committed to Auburn and several girls play high level travel ball.

So before one of the girls hit, a parent (I assume) asked our announcers to announce her as "THE" Her Name. I mean, come the fuck on. They politely declined.

I told them I would have announced her as "A" Her Name.

This reminds me of the first tournament game my son played in. The "fans" of this 12U team he played against set up speakers on either side of the bleachers on their side of the field. They announced the lineup with the requisite stadium music prior to the game and announced each kid as he came up to bat. The lineup was complete with nicknames for each kid including one player who went by "The Stud". That's when I knew we were not in the Little League anymore.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

This reminds me of the first tournament game my son played in. The "fans" of this 12U team he played against set up speakers on either side of the bleachers on their side of the field. They announced the lineup with the requisite stadium music prior to the game and announced each kid as he came up to bat. The lineup was complete with nicknames for each kid including one player who went by "The Stud". That's when I knew we were not in the Little League anymore.

I've watched and coached a lot of youth baseball and I've never seen anything like that.

[RainMaker]

They have a lot of trouble finding officials around here. I know a few hockey games had to be postponed over the Winter. Not sure if it's low pay or just people don't want to put up with people's shit.

I was an umpire over the Summers in college for travel leagues and really enjoyed it. Could work a normal Summer job and then umpire on the weekends. Our college coach encouraged it and was able to get us good gigs. You could do 3 games in succession at the same park and make $100 for 6 hours of work (which was really good for a 21 year old in the early 2000's). Getting a nice tan and free drinks from the concession stand was a nice perk.

Parents could be pricks but it never bothered me much. Probably because I was 21 and didn't give a shit. But there was an older guy who I worked with a lot who did not put up with anything. He was an ump at the college level and did travel and legion ball over the Summers to stay fresh. He tossed a lot of parents which is funny in retrospect.

My only issue came in my last season and made me quit. A coach was mad about losing and ran off after the game without giving us our ticket (you turned in the tickets for payment back in the day). He wasn't mad at a call or anything, just a sore loser who thought he was sending a message to his team by racing to his car after the game and going home.

Anyway, he denied not giving us our tickets (likely because he didn't want to get disciplined by the league) and the league basically said "nothing we can do". So that was it for me and a few others. I think they had to have some parents call games because it's not easy to fill ump slots in the last few weeks of a season.

I had looked into it again years ago because I did kind of enjoy it and it's a nice way to stay active. But the pay was pretty bad and I didn't feel like taking all the classes to be certified for high school ball.

[Ksyrup]

At lower level travel ball (10U, 12U) I've seen the walkup music from the boom box in the stands. I've never seen anyone go all out with an announcer though.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

At lower level travel ball (10U, 12U) I've seen the walkup music from the boom box in the stands. I've never seen anyone go all out with an announcer though.

Yes the announcer was the outlier but walk up music is not unusual from what I have experienced. It would come as no surprise to anyone that after one of their players hit an absolute bomb, he pimped out his trot and finished it off with a slide into home. After that I looked at a father whose daughter played basketball for me and said "Hey, I thought baseball was one of dem wholesome sports." We had a good chuckle but man did we get our butts handed to us that day.

[Ksyrup]

It always amazed me that the irony was lost on these people who, Monday through Friday, were posting FB memes about "participation trophies" destroying society.

[PilotMan]

I am so sick of other people and their super craziness. It's just not worth the effort to deal with them. So happy that I never had to endure this. I don't really remember it as a kid who grew up playing soccer. It really ruins the overall development of the players and the sport imo.

[miami_fan]

This one is making the rounds in a couple of chats I am in with AAU and other basketball coaches.

Hoop mayhem: Boston man facing gun charges after incident at AAU tournament in Westford – Boston 25 News

[Ksyrup]

I couldn't make out what was happening or where the guy was, but props - I guess? - to the dude who casually gathered up his team's bags and walked out as if nothing was going on. Or maybe he was stealing them!

[BishopMVP]

Basketball parents in Mass getting fed up with hockey dads getting all the headlines I guess!

[BYU 14]

Youth baseball coach fractured 72-year-old umpire's jaw

I honestly don't know why anyone would want to officiate youth sports anymore. In 35 years of coaching HS Football, I have had some heated discussions with officials, I won't even try to lie, it happens. But in all that time I have never even thought about putting my hands on one or made it personal. And in every single case, I have always sought that official out after the game, shook his hand and apologized. It's just the correct thing to do.

During that time, I also spent several years coaching youth Baseball, and at that level always made a concerted effort, to never even lose my cool with an umpire. Hell, many times they are kids, or older retired folks. doing the best they can. I also always addressed parents that got out of line during these game.

I get paid to do a job at the HS level, that includes mentoring kids and helping to build a successful program, whatever that looks like in the given situation, but still have an example to set and standards to uphold. At the youth level it should NEVER be about anything other than teaching fundamentals and a love for the game, period, travel team or not.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Youth baseball coach fractured 72-year-old umpire's jaw

I honestly don't know why anyone would want to officiate youth sports anymore. In 35 years of coaching HS Football, I have had some heated discussions with officials, I won't even try to lie, it happens. But in all that time I have never even thought about putting my hands on one or made it personal. And in every single case, I have always sought that official out after the game, shook his hand and apologized. It's just the correct thing to do.

During that time, I also spent several years coaching youth Baseball, and at that level always made a concerted effort, to never even lose my cool with an umpire. Hell, many times they are kids, or older retired folks. doing the best they can. I also always addressed parents that got out of line during these game.

I get paid to do a job at the HS level, that includes mentoring kids and helping to build a successful program, whatever that looks like in the given situation, but still have an example to set and standards to uphold. At the youth level it should NEVER be about anything other than teaching fundamentals and a love for the game, period, travel team or not.

When I was a young coach I was the guy that yelled and argued calls. Like you, I never got personal and it never crossed my mind to get physical or threaten or anything I'd that sort. As I got older I chilled out quite a bit and let the opposing coaches make an ass of themselves while I tried to maintain a good relationship with the umps and if I did argue a call I did in a more questioning way. I had a lot more success with the calm approach.

And I agree, fundamentals are key. I left some wins on the field because I refused to be the guy that turned youth baseball into a track meet. I wanted my players to learn how to take a lead, read the pitcher, and steal a base. Not just go because they can't stop you.

[miami_fan]

Because I live in Florida, I have to clarify whether things are normal or just normal for Florida.

I was listening to one of those morning shock jock sort of shows. The question of the day was "Is It Okay To Gamble on Youth Travel Sports?"

As I listened to the show, the majority of callers said it absolutely goes on and it is a regular thing between parents on the travel baseball circuit. A few callers said they have bet as much as $1000 on U12 and under travel baseball games. I am not a gambler in general. I might make 1-2 bets a year on sports and if I do, the prize is usually something food related or supposedly something embarrassing. Nobody would be seeking me out to bet on these games. I have not seen anything to suggest that people around me are gambling on games that my son has played in but I also acknowledge I would not have any clue what that would look like if they were. While I take the show and the callers with a grain of salt, I do wonder if incidents like this are fueled not just by alcohol (hoo boy the alcohol at youth sporting events is a thing!), but also having some having money riding on the game.