Soccer Thread 2012-13

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Part of the problem is that I'm also trying to fit Kagawa in

I don't think Kagawa will be present in all matches this season by any stretch - he'll probably play around 15-20 matches imho, my guess is that he's not intended to be a mainstay initially but to give strength in depth to the squad and a potent attacking option off the bench when required.

(don't get me wrong I think he's a great player and still has potential to improve as he's fairly young - but it'll take time for him to become fully accustomed to English football, until he does so I doubt Fergie will give him a mainstay role in the team - I think he'll potentially shine most for Man Utd during the European matches .. time will tell, part of what I love about football is trying to predict this sort of thing and seeing it all unfold )

[whomario]

I think Kagawa will surprise a lot of people. He aclimated crazy fast in Germany despite having a mere 11 games even at the highest level in Japan, i just think he´s the type of player who´ll fit in anywhere and fast. (heck, he was scheduled to start the season with the reserve/U23 team and ended up starting on the first match of the season and being a difference maker immediately)
I also don´t think he´s going to have problems with the physichality, he has sneaky physichal tools and great balance.

Not saying it would be a shock (or even a slight towards him) if guys like Rooney and RVP are reasons he doesn´t start, just saying that the reasons imo won´t be on him.

Also, i can very well see him fitting on the wings the way that ManU usually employs them.

Maybe Ferguson should think about playing Kagawa and Rooney behing Van Persie with a 3 man midfield behind, although admittedly i don´t know the roster well enough to claim that would really work.

[Big Fo]

To go along with whomario's post, I gotta say that from what I've seen of Kagawa at Dortmund and even during Man Utd's preseason, he seems too good to just be a backup/squad player.

If he can play out on the left some I think Ashley Young might not get nearly as many starts this season. And maybe Rooney will be out of the left every now and then, like during the 2007-9 period when Cristiano was still around.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

To go along with whomario's post, I gotta say that from what I've seen of Kagawa at Dortmund and even during Man Utd's preseason, he seems too good to just be a backup/squad player.

If he proves himself quickly that might well end up being the case.

Do bear in mind 15-20 league matches isn't a backup at all - its a solid rotation player - very few Premiership players playing in 'all' matches these days with even the strongest outfield players normally missing at least 4-5 matches during the season as they're rested for Cup/European matches if he plays 15-20 league and another 10 or so in Cup/European matches in his first season at Utd (in total that's a very solid turn out for him in a first season at Man Utd imho .. thats 25-30 matches in total).

Compare with the early careers of other talented players at Man Utd - Chris Smalling, Darren Fletcher, Anderson and even the likes of Paul Scholes all started initially playing 15-20 league games in a season while they bedded in and learnt the Man Utd 'way'.

Some of that is I think a mentality thing - Fergie generally wants every player to realise that they aren't bigger than the club and need to fit into the system required as he requires it ... part of that is ensuring that they know they aren't automatic picks and that when they do play they need to play their heart out to ensure they're in the team the week after, if the player performs well and isn't big headed then they can break into the team line up consistently far faster than if they display an ego ... if they display too big an ego then eventually they're moved onward, no matter how good they are.

[SirFozzie]

Things we're learning so far in Day 1 of the EPL season:

QPR and Norwich: If this is not a horrible abberation, this is going to be a LOOOOOONG season for them. (QPR losing 5-0 to Swansea, Norwich getting smacked around 4-0 by a Clint Dempsey less Fulham).

Speaking of long seasons, Liverpool are also stinky (aided by a PK/sending off that was.. gentle, and another PK that was even gentler), losing 3-0 to West Brom.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Things we're learning so far in Day 1 of the EPL season:

QPR and Norwich: If this is not a horrible abberation, this is going to be a LOOOOOONG season for them. (QPR losing 5-0 to Swansea, Norwich getting smacked around 4-0 by a Clint Dempsey less Fulham).

Speaking of long seasons, Liverpool are also stinky (aided by a PK/sending off that was.. gentle, and another PK that was even gentler), losing 3-0 to West Brom.

Arsenal with a poor performance. Not shocking at all to me. Very few preseason games to gel. Some horrific misses.

Everyone will jump on the "RVP left, they can't score goals" bandwagon, but Arsenal scored 1 goal in their first three games last year with RVP. In the long run, I feel ManU will regret the signing and Arsenal will look at it as a blessing. It's a lot of money for a guy who had one healthy season in six. If this were American sports, we'd call that a contract year. We all know what happens to guys who perform above their heads and suddenly stay healthy in a contract year, right?

I disagree on the "gentle" sending off. An elbow to the back of a guy who was clean through? I find it tough to call stuff like that soft. Even if you just are just putting it there for balance, what good can come of it? Sorry, that was pure stupidity and the RED was well deserved.

[Grover]

Come on you Irons!

[miami_fan]

Celtics pulls out a draw at Ross County.

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck these beIN sports idiots for not getting deals in place before the season. And fuck the cable companies too.

I can't get satellite in my apartment, so I'm fucking stuck until they get a cable company.

GRRRRRRRR

//DADDYTORGO VERY ANGRY. BREAK THINGS

[cschex]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Arsenal with a poor performance. Not shocking at all to me. Very few preseason games to gel. Some horrific misses.

Everyone will jump on the "RVP left, they can't score goals" bandwagon, but Arsenal scored 1 goal in their first three games last year with RVP. In the long run, I feel ManU will regret the signing and Arsenal will look at it as a blessing. It's a lot of money for a guy who had one healthy season in six. If this were American sports, we'd call that a contract year. We all know what happens to guys who perform above their heads and suddenly stay healthy in a contract year, right?

I disagree on the "gentle" sending off. An elbow to the back of a guy who was clean through? I find it tough to call stuff like that soft. Even if you just are just putting it there for balance, what good can come of it? Sorry, that was pure stupidity and the RED was well deserved.

Disappointing finishing (what a miss by Giroud) but was encouraged by a few things. Gervinho looked better than almost any time last year and Cazorla's going to be a legend. Still feel Arsenal's one good finishing striker short. Can't wait til Jack's fit again...

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fuck these beIN sports idiots for not getting deals in place before the season. And fuck the cable companies too.

I can't get satellite in my apartment, so I'm fucking stuck until they get a cable company.

GRRRRRRRR

//DADDYTORGO VERY ANGRY. BREAK THINGS

You aren't alone in anger. Seems the teams themselves are pretty angry for the lack of coverage. Al-Jazeera just threw a bunch of money at getting the rights over Fox, without having a large distribution set-up. They are just going to lose lots of money until they can get some cable operators on board. Seems crazy, but then they are very rich.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by cschex

Disappointing finishing (what a miss by Giroud) but was encouraged by a few things. Gervinho looked better than almost any time last year and Cazorla's going to be a legend. Still feel Arsenal's one good finishing striker short. Can't wait til Jack's fit again...

I agree Arsenal will be fine imho - no they probably won't win the league ... but they'll be knocking around the Champions League spots which is their ultimate aim presently.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Hey I'm a Brighton fan I have to keep reminding myself of this a long time ago we were a glamour club (think Chelsea on a smaller scale) .... we fell a long long way down before starting our recent scramble up again.

The clubs which tend to be the most consistent long term performances are those who don't rely on short-term revenue or individual stars - but have committed managers to long periods and decent youth policies (the most obvious today are Man Utd and Arsenal).

Good thing City got the final approval to build this the other week then.



In other news, City named former Barca CEO Ferran Soriano their new CEO. It's a huge appointment. Just might be able to outdo Blackburn here.

And Alex Song is officially the next to leave Arsenal.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fuck these beIN sports idiots for not getting deals in place before the season. And fuck the cable companies too.

I can't get satellite in my apartment, so I'm fucking stuck until they get a cable company.

GRRRRRRRR

//DADDYTORGO VERY ANGRY. BREAK THINGS

Was very happy to find out that Dish has this channel. They did not carry GolTV at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You aren't alone in anger. Seems the teams themselves are pretty angry for the lack of coverage. Al-Jazeera just threw a bunch of money at getting the rights over Fox, without having a large distribution set-up. They are just going to lose lots of money until they can get some cable operators on board. Seems crazy, but then they are very rich.

Fuck them. I think we should invade Dubai and force them to make deals with the cable operators.

Assholes.

So my Juve goes undefeated in the league last year and wins for the first time in years and now I'm missing the opening of this season because the stupid fucking Al-Jazeera fuckwads (I just backspaced about 15 ethnic slurs FYI...I'm that angry) didn't get a fucking distribution deal in place? FUCK THEM11!!!

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Speaking of long seasons, Liverpool are also stinky (aided by a PK/sending off that was.. gentle, and another PK that was even gentler), losing 3-0 to West Brom.

Rodgers was able to keep Swansea in the league, so fans should hold out some hope that they won't be playing in the Championship next season.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I can't get satellite in my apartment, so I'm fucking stuck until they get a cable company.

Seems like it'll be fairly far down Fios's list of priorities too, they're pretty much at capacity for HD networks. I'd bet they'll be one of the last of the major carriers to pick it up unless there's major whining from Spanish speakers about the lack of Real Madrid/Barcelona.

Guess it'll have to be streaming for a while.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Critch

Seems like it'll be fairly far down Fios's list of priorities too, they're pretty much at capacity for HD networks. I'd bet they'll be one of the last of the major carriers to pick it up unless there's major whining from Spanish speakers about the lack of Real Madrid/Barcelona.

Guess it'll have to be streaming for a while.

Yeah

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

In other news, City named former Barca CEO Ferran Soriano their new CEO. It's a huge appointment. Just might be able to outdo Blackburn here.

LOL - City/Chelsea are a long way ahead of Blackburn, for them the big issue if their chairmen lose interest isn't having a decent physical setup (or youth setup) ... its the inflated wages of their first team which will be the 'drag' in such a circumstance.

(not saying its going to happen but neither club has a sustainable situation outside of vast continual cash injections at present)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by cschex

Disappointing finishing (what a miss by Giroud) but was encouraged by a few things. Gervinho looked better than almost any time last year and Cazorla's going to be a legend. Still feel Arsenal's one good finishing striker short. Can't wait til Jack's fit again...

I agree with you on essentially everything. Giroud with a monster miss, but Gervinho was lively, Cazorla was terrific and I really don't think attacking is going to be a monster problem this year. I agree we could use another finisher, I think we also need another mid. Sure, defense is always important, but I don't think Arsenal are going to win this league with defense and I think we are far better in that area with Bould organizing the D anyway.

It's funny, I was CRUSHED with the loss of Fabregas, even though I knew it was coming from a mile away. I was saddened by the loss of Clichy, but he wasn't making the difference in a title run. The losses of Nasri (ridiculous attitude), Song (Van Persie made most of those assists last year and to get them he forgot his defensive duties), Van Persie (magical year that will never happen again even if he stays healthy, which he won't). . . they really don't bother me.

The disaster last year at the start was caused by no replacements. The team fielded in the ManU disaster wouldn't have beat most championship sides. This year, we did grab players early. Now that the RVP and Song sales are finalized, we should be able to bring in 2 to 4 more players.

If Jack gets back, Ox develops, and one of the strikers steps up, and we add some more depth next year, I think we can start looking at more than a top five finish for once. And unlike most of our competition, we aren't in debt, we aren't reliant upon russian mob or oil money to compete, I think we'll be ok. If not, life will go on.

The only thing that would kill me and I mean truly kill me is if Jack jumps ship in a few years. He's gotta be the guy who is different. He just has to be.

[Coffee Warlord]

Curious to see what the FA does with Alan Pardew shoving a ref.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Fuck them. I think we should invade Dubai and force them to make deals with the cable operators.

Assholes.

So my Juve goes undefeated in the league last year and wins for the first time in years and now I'm missing the opening of this season because the stupid fucking Al-Jazeera fuckwads (I just backspaced about 15 ethnic slurs FYI...I'm that angry) didn't get a fucking distribution deal in place? FUCK THEM11!!!

Do they carry the EPL at all? From what I saw on their website, no. I wish I could buy a damn package on Direct where I could get all the EPL games.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Do they carry the EPL at all? From what I saw on their website, no. I wish I could buy a damn package on Direct where I could get all the EPL games.

DirecTV? or beIN Sports?

beIN doesnt have EPL yet, but the speculation is that they're going to throw a ridiculous amount of money at the EPL when the broadcast rights come up again in (I forget what year)

[Grover]

Really hope Wenger is going in for Yann M'Vila after selling Alex Song for only 15m

[cschex]

I'd like Sahin and M'Vila, honestly, but that would mean dumping Diaby and that will never happen as long as Wenger is the manager.

[cougarfreak]

DirecTV? or beIN Sports?



beIN doesnt have EPL yet, but the speculation is that they're going to throw a ridiculous amount of money at the EPL when the broadcast rights come up again in (I forget what year)

I meant beIN. I guess the coverage is still pretty spread out.

[SirFozzie]

Fox Soccer/Fox Soccer Plus have the EPL rights for this season (with some games sublicensed to ESPN), In september, the rights for the 2013-2016 will be up for bid. BeIN sports si reported to be a bidder, but we won't know who has that package until roughly early october

[whomario]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Celtics pulls out a draw at Ross County.

stumbled across a replay of that game just now and gotta say : What a beautiful little arena there In general, those small stadiums that go right to the edge of the pitch in the UK are pretty cool (in germany most smaller clubs play in track and field stadiums)

[sovereignstar v2]

Rodwell in the first 11 right out of the gate. Niiiiice.

[miami_fan]

Hello James Ward-Prowse

17 years old making your league debut against the EPL champs.

I hope this ends well for the kid.

[Easy Mac]

Looks like Aguero's ACL is gone.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Looks like Aguero's ACL is gone.

Ugh. At least none of Tevez, Dzeko, or Balotelli were sent packing over the summer. And there is 2 weeks of the window still left.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Ugh. At least none of Tevez, Dzeko, or Balotelli were sent packing over the summer. And there is 2 weeks of the window still left.

Sigh. . . Must be nice to have a billion dollar payroll.

Seriously, just kidding. As an Arsenal fan, it's not like I have a right to complain a heck of a lot.

If I were a City fan, however, the thing that would scare me about City is the strike force.

Dzeko hasn't seemed to adjust to the EPL that well. Tevez and Balloteli are clinically insane. If motivated, they'll be dominant, but does anyone really believe they'll be good soldiers the entire season? Yeah, me neither.

Aguero is the consistent one. The guy you can count on to give a 100% professional outing game in, game out. If he's gone long term, I don't think he can be replaced.

Managing City is like managing in FM though. Just pick the guys you want and buy them out. I seriously hope that bloated payroll eventually comes back to bite them in the ass someday. On the other hand, I'll cheer for them over Chelsea and ManU anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

[miami_fan]

Wow....

[kingfc22]

Heh.

City just can't seem to connect in the box. I still feel this ends in a 2-2 tie. Just too much pressure for them to withstand.

[Critch]

Rodwell with a killer pass to set up a breakaway goal.

Rumors that Kaka is going to sign for Man Utd in the next day or two on loan for the season, that'll be interesting if it happens. Scholes, Kaka and a time machine and they'll have a midfield.

[Grover]

Fantastic.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Heh.

City just can't seem to connect in the box. I still feel this ends in a 2-2 tie. Just too much pressure for them to withstand.

Good call

[kingfc22]

This game is WIDE open.

[miami_fan]

That counter was great except the finish.

[sovereignstar v2]

Wooooooooooooooo

[miami_fan]

City has awoken.

[kingfc22]

If anything, this should give Southampton some confidence going forward for the first part of the season.

[sovereignstar v2]

Well that was fun. Bob is going to be pissed though. Hopefully De Rossi is playing next week.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Critch

Rodwell with a killer pass to set up a breakaway goal.

Rumors that Kaka is going to sign for Man Utd in the next day or two on loan for the season, that'll be interesting if it happens. Scholes, Kaka and a time machine and they'll have a midfield.

I saw that Kaka rumor and was just baffled.

There's something in a Dutch paper that said Man Utd is signing Alexander Büttner, a 23 year old left back from Vitesse in the Dutch league. He's due in Manchester for a medical tomorrow apparently. He was on the provisional list for the Dutch Euro 2012 squad so hopefully that means he's at least decent, I've never seen him play.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Critch

Rumors that Kaka is going to sign for Man Utd in the next day or two on loan for the season, that'll be interesting if it happens. Scholes, Kaka and a time machine and they'll have a midfield.

Twitter at its best.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I saw that Kaka rumor and was just baffled.

There's something in a Dutch paper that said Man Utd is signing Alexander Büttner, a 23 year old left back from Vitesse in the Dutch league. He's due in Manchester for a medical tomorrow apparently. He was on the provisional list for the Dutch Euro 2012 squad so hopefully that means he's at least decent, I've never seen him play.

Being our 3rd best option at left back isn't any proof of him being any good. You have seen our defense at Euro2012, right?

More seriously, Büttner is considered a talented left back/winger, some say the best Dutchman at that position. He has been linked with many clubs recently, as recently as yesterday with Ajax. The transfer to ManUtd sounds over the top to me, making a giant leap from Vitesse to ManUtd, it's a recipe for disaster, although I hope he does well...

[miami_fan]

Real Madrid should have at least eight on the board right now against Valencia.

[miami_fan]

15 minutes into the new season, Messi has two goals.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Being our 3rd best option at left back isn't any proof of him being any good. You have seen our defense at Euro2012, right?

More seriously, Büttner is considered a talented left back/winger, some say the best Dutchman at that position. He has been linked with many clubs recently, as recently as yesterday with Ajax. The transfer to ManUtd sounds over the top to me, making a giant leap from Vitesse to ManUtd, it's a recipe for disaster, although I hope he does well...

I'm seeing it considered a done deal by a few different sites now, £3.9m transfer fee. He will start off as Evra's backup so maybe that will help ease the transition.

In other Dutch league news, and this might interest the Americans on here in particular, Jozy Altidore scored twice for the second consecutive game to open the season. He scored 19 in all competitions last season with AZ, it's good to see him starting off in fine form again and hopefully he'll get the USA some goals in World Cup qualifying as well.