Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[DeToxRox]

Mark Henry fractured his patella and tore a tendon in that match, so it looks like his match with Batista is off Sunday.

Smackdown can't catch a break. It's time to just end brand extension once and for all

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Indeed, the ROH plot does appear to have thickened. Although I only follow it on the 'net, I really didn't see a Danielson turn coming at all.

Yeah, I've gone to a few ROH shows. I'll; be there October 7th when they're back in Detroit. It's a lot of fun. Some of the fans are obnoxious because they're predominatley marks, but beyond that it's a great time.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Mark Henry fractured his patella and tore a tendon in that match, so it looks like his match with Batista is off Sunday.

Smackdown can't catch a break. It's time to just end brand extension once and for all

That sucks for Henry, right in the middle of the biggest push of his career.

I still like the brand extension though. It gives so many more guys a chance, rather than just watching the same angles twice a week.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

That sucks for Henry, right in the middle of the biggest push of his career.

I still like the brand extension though. It gives so many more guys a chance, rather than just watching the same angles twice a week.

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

It's not unusual for them to pull stars during the summer months because they get pre-empted a lot. They usually start putting them back when the fall comes around.

This is why I wished they had moved them to cable. They would get a guaranteed slot instead of having to worry about pre-emption on network television.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

I'd actually rather see Finlay, etc. than watch DX twice a week.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

I'd actually rather see Finlay, etc. than watch DX twice a week.

Oh I agree. I just don't like how they have it mixed. Ratings would improve with an HBK on SD, as well as a Kane. Put some bigger names on it. Opens up more things for everyone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA Victory Road is tonight on PPV
Pre-show match (just started) is Johnny Devine (w/Alex Shelley) vs Shark Boy

I mention this mostly because it just dawned on me how much Shelley reminds me of a young (but post-ECW) Chris Jericho.

[SirFozzie]

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

Yeah, they wanted a true heel in the match and Joe is so over in ROH it'd have to be Danielson. Seems mute at this point, with Danielson vs KENTA in September and the subsequent Danielson/Homicide showdown that will be Mr. ROH vs Mr. Sellout to ROH. That could be the match of the year with how much emotion that ought to be in it

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

I managed to find a fairly detailed recap of ROH events last night & according to those, the turn of Cornette and Pearce was planned several months ago but delayed in order to let the CZW angle run its course.

Meanwhile, the Danielson thing sounded somewhat similar to what Joe did to Sting (albeit for different motivation & with different stakes) but I wouldn't be completely surprised if this was less of a heel turn than making AmDrag more of a neutral in the long run. And since Joe's ROH bookings were being scaled down anyway, and Homicide's TNA committments are going to be ramped up considerably next year, I'm not sure whether there's more than 3-6 months left for the two storylines. Yeah, that's plenty of time of course (especially these days), but it almost seems like a lot of effort to put into a pair of feuds that have rather limited options over the long term.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Naturals vs Diamonds In the Rough -- kinda sorry to see the victims of the anticipated squash include David Young, who is much better than he's been allowed ... oops, literally while I was typing this David busted out a moonsault to the floor. If they're gonna be leaving TNA soon as the 'net claims, at least he goes out with a highlight moment.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I'm ready to buy The Naturals new image. Douglas is trying like hell to sell it for them, but I'm afraid they may have been jobbed too regularly lately for me to be ready to take them seriously yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA Victory Road Match 2: Monty Brown vs Rhino -- the guy who's been streaking through jobberland vs the guy who has turned up the heat with consecutive killer promos.

This was thrown onto the card nearly at the last minute, not sure that I like the booking here. It feels too random plus it seems likely to damage what they've tried to accomplish with each of them for the past month. (As of the ref bump, while I'm typing this) I expect Brown to get a cheap win & them to set up a month long feud for these two.

edit to add: double countout as they brawl through the crowd, through security and out the back door. Almost looked like they were booking on the fly after Thomas took a Gore from Rhino, clearly Rhino was calling a spot when they were on the guardrail, so I'm not sure this was exactly the way it was booked in detail although it looks like the eventual result I expected. I suppose there's not much else for these two to be doing right now, so the pairing is set. I'm kind of "meh" about it, mostly because I don't see Brown improving.

Next up: LAX vs Killings & Dutt -- previewed by looong taped promo for LAX. I really dislike the angle they're using for them, partly because it's so predictable in some ways & partly because I know Homicide could get over without the crappy angle and I think Hernandez is more than serviceable in his own right.

[SirFozzie]

The LAX intro is a plus for me. It does more in 30 seconds to get over then one of their rambling promos

[JonInMiddleGA]

Minor quibble amidst a helluva match -- when you run in to break up a pin attempt, shouldn't it actually break up the pin? Instead, nowadays, the pinner almost always remains in a pinning position AND the victim usually doesn't get his shoulder up. I suppose the theory is that the interference breaks the referee's count, but it just bugs me the way it's done now, it looks sloppy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

D'Amore just gave the farewell to Team Canada segment everything he had. Not bad, IMO. And the push for Eric Young, albeit maybe only from jobber to lower midcarder, is definitely underway

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's official -- Bound For Glory, 10/22, in Detroit.

edit to add: And, it's official - Kazarian returns to TNA, taking on Senshi for the X-Division title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Senshi handles Kazarian, in a match that featured {gasp} psychology, as his offense focused on making it hard for the returning former X-champ to breath, perfect considering his finisher. Crowd was kind of dead for a good bit of the match though.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Minor quibble amidst a helluva match -- when you run in to break up a pin attempt, shouldn't it actually break up the pin? Instead, nowadays, the pinner almost always remains in a pinning position AND the victim usually doesn't get his shoulder up. I suppose the theory is that the interference breaks the referee's count, but it just bugs me the way it's done now, it looks sloppy.

and add that most of the time, that Ive seen, they dont even make contact enough to technically break up the pin count....which may have been what you mean anyways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sabin rolls up Shelley to win the tag match, 3-on-2 afterwards as the heels have strength in numbers. Effective (IMO) run-in save by Jerry Lynn, who tosses down his "employee badge" and tells Nash to bring it.

Sets up an obvious 3-on-3 I guess, which could extend the angle for another month I suppose, but if Lynn can still go, it'd be good to see him back in the ring.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Abyss slams Runt onto a table to win the six-man match. I said "onto" instead of "through" since the table didn't really break until Abyss put his weight into it after the move. Bad luck for little Spike there, I gotta figure that hurts a good bit more when the table doesn't give & there's a 350 pound monster on top of you.

Next up: AMW+Gail Kim vs AJ/Daniels/Sirelda. Sidebar, I really like the work that Storm & Harris do on the mic, it's old school & their experience in Nashville (where I first saw them work in one of Bert Prentice's indy feds) shows in it a little bit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, maybe that sequence will put to rest the "Brokeback Mountain" chants at AMW

[JonInMiddleGA]

Styles/Daniels/Sirelda win after a botched spot by AMW, further teasing a possible split of the former tag champions.

Sirelda did okay, I guess, for her first big event. She's very green but she served her purpose. Gail Kim, on the other hand, I really think could work quite capably in at least the lower echelon of the X-Division. Like a lot of female wrestlers who have an aerial package, she's a spot monkey but I really like the workrate she brings especially for her size. 'd really like to see her against some of the Japanese ladies in a set of serious matches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

4-way for the title shot -- Jarrett posed as a camera man, then sprayed gasoline in Sting's eyes early in the match, effectively eliminating him contention. Leaves it as a 3-way dance (at least for now).

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Naturals vs Diamonds In the Rough -- kinda sorry to see the victims of the anticipated squash include David Young, who is much better than he's been allowed ... oops, literally while I was typing this David busted out a moonsault to the floor. If they're gonna be leaving TNA soon as the 'net claims, at least he goes out with a highlight moment.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I'm ready to buy The Naturals new image. Douglas is trying like hell to sell it for them, but I'm afraid they may have been jobbed too regularly lately for me to be ready to take them seriously yet.

Their utter lack of charisma doesn't help.

[JonInMiddleGA]

(As even my 8 y/o predicted) Sting returns from the back with his eyes bandanged, prevents Cage from pinning Steiner, short exchange with all four men leads to Sting pinning Steiner to earn the title shot.

And, as you might expect, an angry Christian confronts Sting in the ring afterwards. Nose to nose, eyeball to eyeball, chest to chest ... you could clearly see Cage tell Sting to "back away from me" ... and Sting does, asking Cage "what do you want from me" ... Christian pauses ... pauses ... and offers his hand to Sting. ... Sting shakes his hand ... and Cage hugs him, exits the ring & applauds Sting from the apron, leaving Sting alone to celebrate his victory in the ring as we fade to black.

What this eventually leads to is almost painfully predictable, but credit to the writers for not going for the obvious ending tonight.

[General Mike]

Christian needs to be a heel.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Christian needs to be a heel.

And I'll be shocked if you don't get your wish about 30 days from now

[General Mike]

Well,I don't think they will have Christian turn heel at the next PPV because Sting needs to be the guy Joe beats for the title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I still worry that Nash will f' up this angle with Sabin, but ...
That bit about "Madagascar" was funny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, I do believe the profile of Homicide & Hernandez has just officially been raised.

[duckman]

For some reason I can't get into the TNA product. Maybe I've been conditioned by watching WWE for all these years?

[SirFozzie]

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.

I mentioned that to Will, that I don't know what they called it but I bet they won't use the name that he uses for it everywhere else.

And it does look nasty (thanks in part to AJ selling it like he'd been shot).

------
Meanwhile, credit to Jay Lethal for being prepared (real life prepared, not kayfabe prepared) to bring an A game for what will probably be the only match in his life for a World Title. And (grudgingly) credit to Jarrett for selling for him and making it look credible. The psychology of the match was well above the norm for the past several years IMO -- Lethal attacking just before the bell, following Jarrett outside the ring and continuing his offense not once but twice, pretty much everything he did except trying to plead his case with the ref was spot on for a guy who knew he had one big chance. And that mistake also made sense in the context of "the youngest guy on the roster".

On the whole, I think it's still a mixed bag for the big picture booking but in isolation I thought the script for this one was quite well done.

[SirFozzie]

Gringo Killa is what they're calling it apparently..

BTW, nice Southern style heat, with LAX suckering AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels over to "Their turf" to sign the deal for a title shot (especially since Styles/Daniels appear to be "fighting cha,pions"), only to beat them down, and signing the contract with Daniels's blood is a CHOICE visual.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.

It is the "Vertebreaker" that Shane Helms used to use in WCW before he stopped after dropping someone (Chavo?) right on his neck. I believe he came up with the move himself - he used to have some cool videos of it on his website.

[Deattribution]

In addition to Mark Henry off this week's smackdown PPV, they just pulled Bobby Lashley off the ppv for rumored 'medical reasons'...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

It is the "Vertebreaker" that Shane Helms used to use in WCW before he stopped after dropping someone (Chavo?) right on his neck. I believe he came up with the move himself - he used to have some cool videos of it on his website.

Nice memory Todd, better memory than me at least.

The CopKilla is indeed a Reverse Gory Special Piledriver, and ...

from http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/part1.htm
Piledriver, Reverse Gory Special
Used by : Megumi Kudoh, Shane Helms
AKA : Spinning Kudoh Driver (Megumi Kudoh), Vertibreaker (Helms)
Description : The victim is behind the attacker. The attacker places the victim's head between their legs and hooks both their arms. The attacker turns around so the victim is now in front of the attacker facing the same direction, at the same time, the victim ducks down and sticks their head between the victim's legs and stands up while still having the arms hooked. The victim is lifted up so they are now upside down, the attacker suspends the victim by keeping their arms trapped. The attacker holds the victim's arms and grabs the victim's legs. The attacker sits down, dropping the victim on their head/back of the neck.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

In addition to Mark Henry off this week's smackdown PPV, they just pulled Bobby Lashley off the ppv for rumored 'medical reasons'...

They are saying it is from elevated liver enzymes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by duckman

They are saying it is from elevated liver enzymes.

from http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ele...nzymes/HQ01011

Common causes of elevated liver enzymes include:

* Medications, such as certain nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, cholesterol-lowering medications, antibiotics and anti-seizure medications
* Drinking too much alcohol
* Obesity
* Diabetes
* Elevated triglycerides
* Infection, such as viral hepatitis and mononucleosis
* Autoimmune disorders of the liver and bile ducts, such as autoimmune hepatitis and primary sclerosing cholangitis and primary biliary cirrhosis
* Metabolic liver disease, such as hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease
* Excessive use of vitamin supplements and certain herbal supplements
* Tumors of the liver or bile ducts

Treatment of elevated liver enzyme depends on the underlying cause.

[molson]

Wow - The Great Khali has now been pulled from the Great American Bash, as he too has a diseased liver.

The WWE sure is taking the wellness program seriously - which is good to see.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Nice memory Todd, better memory than me at least.

Thanks, dude. I actually used to write a recap of WCW Monday Nitro for R.S.P-W (The Definitive Monday Nitro Report under the moniker "Peter the Great" . I'll bet you could search Google Groups and find one,) and on a small web site I had when I was in college. Every match, every move, every result. When they movedfrom 1 hour to 2 it became a chore, then when they toyd with 3 it was a nightmare.

[saldana]

is any one getting the G.A.B. tonight....i am pondering it, but am leaning against it as i dont watch the smackdown brand very much.

[SirFozzie]

From a Wrestling standpoint, this shouldbe one of the better WWE PPV's this year...

From a storyline standpoint, one of the worst.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

From a Wrestling standpoint, this shouldbe one of the better WWE PPV's this year...

From a storyline standpoint, one of the worst.

Not after two major injuries. The card is kinda weak now.

[SirFozzie]

Bobby Lashley isn't a great wrestler, so instead of a three way, we get Regal vs Finlay, and that should be a really good match depending on what they do with it.

Great Khali is a HORRIBLE wrestler (so much so that he was responsible for the death of a wrestler in training, if I remember correctly).. and Big Show is the best wrestling big man around... that match improved 100x over.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Bobby Lashley isn't a great wrestler, so instead of a three way, we get Regal vs Finlay, and that should be a really good match depending on what they do with it.

Great Khali is a HORRIBLE wrestler (so much so that he was responsible for the death of a wrestler in training, if I remember correctly).. and Big Show is the best wrestling big man around... that match improved 100x over.

But it wasn't really his fault.

"On May 28, 2001, Brian Ong volunteered to receive a flapjack from Dalip Singh, a wrestler being specially trained by All Pro Wrestling. Singh did this move with two others in the gym that night, including one of the trainers, so Ong could see how it was done. Ong botched receiving the move, as he grabbed Singh's shirt instead of pushing off his back as the coaches had instructed him. He landed wrong and suffered a severe injury. He had a previous concussion and the second consecutive concussion proved fatal for Ong. This led to Singh inadvertently causing his death. All Pro Wrestling lost a lawsuit brought by Ong's family over his death, and were forced to award damages of over $1.3 million to his parents."

[JonInMiddleGA]

The general take on the Khali training death seems to be that the victim, Brian Ong, was even greener than Khali & basically botched taking the bump himself.

Best I can tell, the jury that eventually awarded Ong's family over $1m in damages did so because they felt the fed/school shouldn't have put the student in the ring to take the bump in the first place, not because Dalip Singh did anything wrong in delivering the flapjack (or at least that's the impression I got from reading a few articles).

[Deattribution]

The card looks horrible, if I were anyone thinking on ordering it - I'd save my money for Summerslam. They've practically went back to their 'In your house' format where there are only 4 real PPVs and the rest is garbage to just get your money.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I'd save my money for ordering a DVD from a fed with a half decent roster

Fixed that for ya