WW CLVI - Clue: Master Detective - GAME OVER! MURDERERS WIN! (Post 1817)

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Yea Murrayyyyyyy played too goodddd a game last time.

Vote Murrayyyyyyyyyy

This game is nothing like the last game. I can't figure out if this is more role play or throwing darts at a board. So far it seems like I should be looking for darts.

[britrock88]

Well, we're on a new page. I'll get a tally up...

after I get in a reactive vote.

Vote JAG

[britrock88]

1 britrock - JAG (132)
1 hoopsguy - Danny (137)
1 Zinto - mauchow (141)
1 murrayyyyy - ntndeacon (150)
1 JAG - britrock (152)

[Danny]

unvote hoops

[murrayyyyy]

I was told to present a menu for your characters at night… or else. I don’t feel like finding out what “else” means.

So here is what you can have for a late night snack tomorrow night.

Feel free to order at anytime. I fear that if no one orders anything he will not be pleased and I might find out what he meant way too soon.

1) 西米露
2) 豆腐花
3) 龜苓膏
4) 椰汁糕
5) 紅豆沙
6) 魚翅湯
7) 燕窩

[bulletsponge]

are you the cook? hmm better not kill you, who will make me a sandwich then?

[britrock88]

S'pose I'll have to try this bird nest's soup, eh?

[murrayyyyy]

Okay. I got another message rather quickly that says comedian is not a role in this game. I would like to apologize to everyone here. I didn’t look at the other side of the menu which was in English.

I consider myself lucky not to have died for the latest mistake and beg for your forgiveness. (why are people so mean in this game?)

1) Sai mai lo
2) Dau fu fa
3) Guilinggao
4) Coconut bar
5) Red bean soup
6) Shark fin soup
7) Bird's nest soup

[DaddyTorgo]

Checking in.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, thanks for your response, CW. To be honest, though, I'm not sure they answered the real questions I have. So I'll be straight forward: Are there currently murderers (wolves) in the game right now?

And if yes, did all roles have a chance at being one of those starting murderers? Did all have the same chance at the start to be murderers? Or are there roles who, we can be certain, are not murderers and can never be murderers?

This is an important clarification because we need to know if it's even.possible to build a circle of trust.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, thanks for your response, CW. To be honest, though, I'm not sure they answered the real questions I have. So I'll be straight forward: Are there currently murderers (wolves) in the game right now?

Yes.

And if yes, did all roles have a chance at being one of those starting murderers?

No comment.

Or are there roles who, we can be certain, are not murderers and can never be murderers?

As per the rules, any of the Big Six may become murderers. I cannot comment past that for this part.

[Coffee Warlord]

I WILL say there's a reason I have to leave that intentionally vague beyond me being a dick.

[DQ_BOY1000]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

1) Sai mai lo
2) Dau fu fa
3) Guilinggao
4) Coconut bar
5) Red bean soup
6) Shark fin soup
7) Bird's nest soup

6 Please. When will dinner be ready, I am hungry!

[PackerFanatic]

I will take number 1.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Signup sheet. I cannot run this with any less than 13. More is better.

23) hoopsguy's evil twin - incinerated by combustable yak piss, day 0

I think this is the guy who seems to have riled up so many of you. Good thing the yak got him already.

So, for Day 1 - and until I have a reason to vary from that approach - I plan to vote for one of the "non extra roles" since the murderers will fall within that group. Willing to be talked into looking elsewhere on D2 when that option becomes available, but at first glance it seems like whittling away a group that contains potential murderers seems like the best starting strategy.

[Danny]

Hoops maybe I am confused but how exactly do you know f you are voting for extra or non extra role?

[bhlloy]

A very very good question Danny, I can't see any way we know that.

From CW's latest answers I can logically assume we have at least 2 murderers currently in the house, as I don't think he'd go to all that trouble creating a ruleset and then run the risk of the the game being over with a lucky guess on day 1. So let's assume 2 of the big 6 are currently murderers, with more potentially coming into the house on day 2. Does that sound right?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Or are there roles who, we can be certain, are not murderers and can never be murderers?

Isn't this clear from the writeups on page 1? The informants and the extras cannot become murderers. Or have I missed something since then?

[Danny]

I think that sounds about right, but at this point with so much hidden info I don't think we can make too many assumptions

[Danny]

Hoops this is for you!

vote miss scarlet

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Hoops maybe I am confused but how exactly do you know f you are voting for extra or non extra role?

We have been told 13 players are in the house, and 9 players are not in the house. The rules say that the Extra Roles are outside of the house and will arrive by Day Three. Everyone else is already in the house. 9 players listed by CW as outside of the house exactly matches the number of Extra Roles we have.

It seems pretty clear to me (and hoops apparently) that the 9 players shown as not currently in the house are the 9 Extra Roles that have not arrived yet.

So by process of elimination, those of us who are already in the house are not Extra Roles, but one of the other roles.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I think this is the guy who seems to have riled up so many of you. Good thing the yak got him already.

So, for Day 1 - and until I have a reason to vary from that approach - I plan to vote for one of the "non extra roles" since the murderers will fall within that group. Willing to be talked into looking elsewhere on D2 when that option becomes available, but at first glance it seems like whittling away a group that contains potential murderers seems like the best starting strategy.

The Extra Roles can be murderers, too.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Isn't this clear from the writeups on page 1? The informants and the extras cannot become murderers. Or have I missed something since then?

No, IMO, it's not clear. The way CW wrote it, he is stating certain roles can or cannot "become murderers". This wording tells me they don't necessarily start as murderers but they may or may not be converted to murderers at some point.

What he doesn't say, anywhere in the ruleset, that I could find, is whether we start with murderers. Nothing he says states that any roles can't start as murderers. For instance, maybe the Motorist or the Singing Telegram Girl can't "become murderers" (can't be converted). But it doesn't say they can't start as murderers.

That was what I was trying to get clarity on, whether we have roles we can definitively say are not murderers. Unfortunately, CW gave us no guidance there, so it's going to be pretty hard to establish a COT within the known ruleset.

I certainly hope that the various abilities that are supposed to be out there includes some ways to establish a COT.

[DQ_BOY1000]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The Big Six
The Big Six, as noted above, are all fully capable of becoming a murderer at some point in the game.

6 potential murders...

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The Informants
While the informants cannot become a murderer, they stand a better than average chance of being murdered themselves.

Not all of these will be murders... maybe 3 or 4? That sounds like "better than average" to me.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The Extras
The Extras also cannot become murderers, but they do have special abilities. Mr Boddy and Wadsworth are guaranteed to be in the game.

Wouldn't surprise me if one of these is a murder...

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The Other Extras
These are publicly known characters at the onset of the game. Whether or not they are a murderer is, however, not known. What powers they have is also not known. HOWEVER. The Other Extras are running late, and don't arrive to the mansion with the rest of the guests. They will arrive at an unknown day (no later than day 3, most likely earlier). They can take no actions, be targeted for night actions, or be lynched until they have arrived at the house. They CAN take part in any discussions, however, and they CAN vote.

All of them could be murders...

So i count that only 3 can not potentially become/are already murders...

1) Mr. Body or Wadworth
2) 2 of the informants

Everyone else could be.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

There is at least one murderer at the start of the game.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Any one of the Big Six may also become a murderer during the course of the game, if certain conditions are met.

I read these two statements to mean that the initial murderer(s) can come from any class of people, but that in the course of the game, only Big Six roles can become murderers.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

We have been told 13 players are in the house, and 9 players are not in the house. The rules say that the Extra Roles are outside of the house and will arrive by Day Three. Everyone else is already in the house. 9 players listed by CW as outside of the house exactly matches the number of Extra Roles we have.

It seems pretty clear to me (and hoops apparently) that the 9 players shown as not currently in the house are the 9 Extra Roles that have not arrived yet.

So by process of elimination, those of us who are already in the house are not Extra Roles, but one of the other roles.

Ah, I see, but we can only vote for one of the 13 now anyway.

[Danny]

Here is list of 9 roles not at the house yet

Miss Peach
The very picture of beauty, this innocent flower seems entirely out of place amongst such sordid fellows.

Monsieur Brunette
A hideously wealthy and hideously ruthless arms dealer, the frenchman is a master of disguise and intrigue.

Madame Rose
Word is the Madame is more than the fraudulent fortune teller many claim her to be. What she's actually doing here is a different matter entirely.

Sergeant Grey
Another corrupt cop...is there any other kind? However, the timing of his visit to the manor house leads to many questions as to who he's working for.

The Chief
The local chief of police is, amazingly, the only honest cop around.

Lady Lavender
Lady Lavender is and old bitter widow. She's seen it all, done them all, and lived to tell the tale.

Prince Azure
A disgraced Prussian nobleman, the Prince has worked in the underworld for years. He is a leading figure in the criminal world...what's he doing here?

Rusty Naylor
The groundskeeper at the mansion, this old man has seen far too much, and just wants to retire to the country. He's been tending to this house for decades, and knows it inside and out.

Mr Meadow-Brook
Mr Boddy's attorney. He's been known to represent some of the foulest people on earth, and has always gotten an acquittal.

[Danny]

Oh and how could Chief not be THE CHIEF

[DaddyTorgo]

Are we revealing which characters we are?

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Are we revealing which characters we are?

I don't think I am until I get a better handle on the ruleset. If people can become murderers there has to be a trigger for that and as such it seems dangerous to know exactly who is who just yet.

Freely admit though that I'm just checking in and haven't gone over the rules in detail yet so there may be a reason I'm not aware of.

[Danny]

I am Harry Potter

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by DQ_BOY1000

6 potential murders...



Not all of these will be murders... maybe 3 or 4? That sounds like "better than average" to me.



Wouldn't surprise me if one of these is a murder...



All of them could be murders...

So i count that only 3 can not potentially become/are already murders...

1) Mr. Body or Wadworth
2) 2 of the informants

Everyone else could be.

I read this as they can't be murderers but can be murdered. Unless I don't understand what you are saying.

[Zinto]

It is spring break and I can actually post a bunch for once instead of getting lynched for being too quiet. Hooray.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by DQ_BOY1000

6 potential murders...

Wouldn't surprise me if one of these is a murder...



All of them could be murders...

Murdered, not murderers. The two things are not the same.

I have a different take on it than CR, I think it's unlikely that CW would spell out they can't become murderers unless they were also immune from being murderers at the beginning of the game, but I will keep an open mind on this. Definitely open to interpretation.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I read this as they can't be murderers but can be murdered. Unless I don't understand what you are saying.

I agree with this. This concludes the first ever incidence of me agreeing with Zinto in a WW game.

[bhlloy]

Weird, I seem to have lost a post or have gone crazy and didn't hit reply. Anyway, I agree with path. I think it's very dangerous to reveal roles in this kind of a game. The writeups pretty strongly suggest that the big six are looking for the informants, and to just come out and say exactly who is who doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

[Danny]

Too late, voldemort already knows who he needs to defeat now. We might be doomed

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, IMO, it's not clear. The way CW wrote it, he is stating certain roles can or cannot "become murderers". This wording tells me they don't necessarily start as murderers but they may or may not be converted to murderers at some point.

What he doesn't say, anywhere in the ruleset, that I could find, is whether we start with murderers. Nothing he says states that any roles can't start as murderers. For instance, maybe the Motorist or the Singing Telegram Girl can't "become murderers" (can't be converted). But it doesn't say they can't start as murderers.

That was what I was trying to get clarity on, whether we have roles we can definitively say are not murderers. Unfortunately, CW gave us no guidance there, so it's going to be pretty hard to establish a COT within the known ruleset.

I certainly hope that the various abilities that are supposed to be out there includes some ways to establish a COT.

Pretty good point there. I read the rules as 'cannot become murderers' to mean 'are not murderers so they're ok', but CW is being coy about who the initial murderers are (other than to say there are some in the game now), so I'm withholding judgment on that now.

Kind of a stupid question, but for anyone that remembers it, does the movie give us any idea of what roles we might be able to trust? I don't recall that much of it other than there were multiple endings.

[Lathum]

I think the whole jist of the movie was you cant trust anyone.

Also, I'll likely be on the quiet side today, Mondays are my busy day at work and my In Laws are visiting so I may not be around at deadline.

[Coffee Warlord]

Mrs Peacock was a man!??!?

[Coffee Warlord]

1 - britrock
1 - Zinto
1 - murrayyyy
1 - JAG

[Coffee Warlord]

[DaddyTorgo]

I haven't arrived at the house yet, so I'm immune to the murders attempts at a nightkill until I do.

Also immune to a lynch vote. Kinda cool!

[PackerFanatic]

Rather than spread the vote out, I figure I might as well pile on...which will probably come back to bite me. But alas - no guts no glory!

VOTE BRITROCK88

[Chubby]

At work during the day, ill try and keep up so I don't have 50 pages to read later but I will hold off on a vote until I get home this afternoon

[DQ_BOY1000]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I read this as they can't be murderers but can be murdered. Unless I don't understand what you are saying.

Sorry for the confusion. I was in a rush.

I meant that all those could be murderers. I will do a more thorough job of proof reading so as to not be miss misunderstood.


However I agree with brittrock...

Originally Posted by Zinto

I read these two statements to mean that the initial murderer(s) can come from any class of people, but that in the course of the game, only Big Six roles can become murderers.

Have we come to any conclusion on who can and who cannot be a murderer at the beginning of the game and who can become one later?

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Chubby

At work during the day, ill try and keep up so I don't have 50 pages to read later but I will hold off on a vote until I get home this afternoon

That's always my downfall...I am so good checking during the day, but everyone always posts at night. Then I come in the next day and have so much to catch up on, hah.

[Coffee Warlord]

Minor rule update - I've changed my mind, you will receive a rough overview of a character's powers when they die.

[DQ_BOY1000]

Crap... I forgot to edit who posted that comment... it was Britt not Zinto.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

We have been told 13 players are in the house, and 9 players are not in the house. The rules say that the Extra Roles are outside of the house and will arrive by Day Three. Everyone else is already in the house. 9 players listed by CW as outside of the house exactly matches the number of Extra Roles we have.

It seems pretty clear to me (and hoops apparently) that the 9 players shown as not currently in the house are the 9 Extra Roles that have not arrived yet.

So by process of elimination, those of us who are already in the house are not Extra Roles, but one of the other roles.

Yep, this was my thought.
Here is the scene from the rules:

The Other Extras
These are publicly known characters at the onset of the game. Whether or not they are a murderer is, however, not known. What powers they have is also not known. HOWEVER. The Other Extras are running late, and don't arrive to the mansion with the rest of the guests. They will arrive at an unknown day (no later than day 3, most likely earlier). They can take no actions, be targeted for night actions, or be lynched until they have arrived at the house. They CAN take part in any discussions, however, and they CAN vote.

Dissect that info as you wish, but other content suggested that the core characters are likely to be murderers. We have people showing up late - those are, at least in my mind, "other extras" and should be weighted at least a little bit differently at this point in time.