Front Office Football, the Card Game

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

TCY2 kickstarter, I'd throw in 500 or so on that.

I'd be good for a couple of hundred on that as well.

[Izulde]

I don't have the money to throw triple digits on a TCY2, but I'd throw some cash on it, yes.

[Zeniazd]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

+1 on wishing Jim the best of luck.

Did anyone else note the thread starter...this is their only post yet they knew to come here?

hrmmm...

Nothing sinister involved. I haven't been back to this website in years, and that was a couple of emails (and lost credentials) ago. When I saw the KS project, I figured people here would be interested, so I just created a new account.

Actually, I was a little surprised that there wasn't a thread here already.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the project will fund - KS isn't really a good fit with low-key, I'm afraid. It can work if you're only looking for a couple of hundred (or a few thousand) dollars, but once you get above that, it really is a marketing exercise.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Zeniazd

Nothing sinister involved. I haven't been back to this website in years, and that was a couple of emails (and lost credentials) ago. When I saw the KS project, I figured people here would be interested, so I just created a new account.

Actually, I was a little surprised that there wasn't a thread here already.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the project will fund - KS isn't really a good fit with low-key, I'm afraid. It can work if you're only looking for a couple of hundred (or a few thousand) dollars, but once you get above that, it really is a marketing exercise.

Yes. It is an exercise in marketing. But Jim not posting a video didnt help. A video showing some game play would have done a lot I think.
Also, BGG has a Press Release section. That would be a great place to announce it. Might get a couple more looks.

I just saw a company in the press release section that released a new sports game. Posted a link. Guess where I went? And their web site is much less interesting and cool as Jims.

Little things might help. But Im not sure. I do know that the last 3 days of most KS projects get massive bumps in funding. So there is hope. If Jim gets aggressive.

Maybe Jim could get a couple of his play testers to do a video and post it for him.

I think this would be a cool game. But as you said, KS projects need marketing.

[Zeniazd]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yes. It is an exercise in marketing. But Jim not posting a video didnt help. A video showing some game play would have done a lot I think.
Also, BGG has a Press Release section. That would be a great place to announce it. Might get a couple more looks.

I just saw a company in the press release section that released a new sports game. Posted a link. Guess where I went? And their web site is much less interesting and cool as Jims.

Little things might help. But Im not sure. I do know that the last 3 days of most KS projects get massive bumps in funding. So there is hope. If Jim gets aggressive.

Maybe Jim could get a couple of his play testers to do a video and post it for him.

I think this would be a cool game. But as you said, KS projects need marketing.

I get the impression that Jim doesn't feel comfortable with all the marketing stuff, but if he wanted to make a big push, he'd probably be better served to cancel the existing project, do some press/demo/buildup, and relaunch the project in a couple of months.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yes. It is an exercise in marketing. But Jim not posting a video didnt help. A video showing some game play would have done a lot I think.
Also, BGG has a Press Release section. That would be a great place to announce it. Might get a couple more looks.

Someone in one of my classes did a research project on Kickstarter, and they found that the number one factor in getting your project funded is having a video. The number two factor was having a good video.

[Zeniazd]

With no desire to be confrontational, I think that sounds overly simplistic.

An alternate point of view:

Why (some) Kickstarter campaigns fail - The Domino Project

Kickstarter campaigns fail when the tribe of people who believe in the idea is too small

It’s worth taking a moment to parse that out–it will help you understand how the whole thing works and where some campaigns fail. You either need more belief or a bigger/louder/more influential tribe.

Kickstarter appears to be a great way to find fans for your work. You put up a great video clip and a story and wait for people who will love it to find you.
But that’s not what happens. What happens is that people who ALREADY have a tribe, like Amanda Palmer, use Kickstarter to organize and activate that tribe. Kickstarter is the last step, not the first one.

[tarcone]

I went to BGG and searched forums for what makes a successful KS project.
Here are some links:

From a game designer:

The Kickstarter Conundrum | BoardGameGeek | BoardGameGeek

This might interest Jim

Entrepreneurship in Tabletop Gaming - Academic Essay | BoardGameGeek | BoardGameGeek

Tips for Kickstarter Success

Tips for Kickstarter success | BoardGameGeek | BoardGameGeek

[Young Drachma]

Seems fitting in a random sort of way.

Secrets of successful yoga studios, and tactics to examine ideas that suck | Penelope Trunk Blog)

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't understand why we couldn't kickstarter a FOF?

There are other video games on there that are sequels - what makes them any different from a sequal to FOF?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Zeniazd

Actually, I was a little surprised that there wasn't a thread here already.

There is/was a thread already in the FOF forum.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't understand why we couldn't kickstarter a FOF?

There are other video games on there that are sequels - what makes them any different from a sequal to FOF?

you mean like this? A Solecismic Kickstarter? - Front Office Football Central

[Zeniazd]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't understand why we couldn't kickstarter a FOF?

There are other video games on there that are sequels - what makes them any different from a sequal to FOF?

I'm not sure where the idea is coming from that a sequel can't be funded on KS. As you've said, it's just not true. In fact, most of the really successful projects are either direct or spiritual sequels.

However, I'm not sure an updated version would qualify. Obviously there's a lot of 'eye of the beholder' involved in how many changes before an update becomes a sequel...

Finally, there's the small sticking point that Jim has to want to do it. As I've said, I've been away, but I never thought it was the lack of funding keeping Jim from making a new FOF.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Zeniazd

I'm not sure where the idea is coming from that a sequel can't be funded on KS. As you've said, it's just not true. In fact, most of the really successful projects are either direct or spiritual sequels.

However, I'm not sure an updated version would qualify. Obviously there's a lot of 'eye of the beholder' involved in how many changes before an update becomes a sequel...

Finally, there's the small sticking point that Jim has to want to do it. As I've said, I've been away, but I never thought it was the lack of funding keeping Jim from making a new FOF.

I dunno - I thought someone alluded to that before and I was confused. But yes...Jim would obviously have to do it.

[samifan24]

I would absolutely back a new FOF or TCY game and I think such a game would easily exceed its funding goals very quickly. The card game sounds like a neat idea but I'm just not sure the audience is there, especially with the audience that Kickstarter typically draws. Sure, plenty of card or board games have have successful Kickstarter campaigns but I believe a FOF video game would be far more successful.

It's a shame that Kickstarter users cannot create projects on their own and then pledge funds to them as a way to show a developer, like Jim, how much financial support we'd throw behind a new FOF or TCY game. Granted money isn't everything but I'm sure the interest is there from this group and many others.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yes. It is an exercise in marketing. But Jim not posting a video didnt help. A video showing some game play would have done a lot I think.
Also, BGG has a Press Release section. That would be a great place to announce it. Might get a couple more looks.

I just saw a company in the press release section that released a new sports game. Posted a link. Guess where I went? And their web site is much less interesting and cool as Jims.

Little things might help. But Im not sure. I do know that the last 3 days of most KS projects get massive bumps in funding. So there is hope. If Jim gets aggressive.

Maybe Jim could get a couple of his play testers to do a video and post it for him.

I think this would be a cool game. But as you said, KS projects need marketing.

I'm guessing the press release and site were mine.
Basketball Bones by PT Games.
Funny you said a less interesting website since I follow Jim's model of minimal visual intrusion.
No harm or foul taken on my part. Glad to see you came, hopefully next week when the game is released you visit once again.

Sorry to divert the thread from lamenting Jim's marketing shortcomings. I will say as a guy in the boardgame marketplace as a distributor for 10 years, it is a tough place to be, small margins, and markets, exposure is very tough to come by.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

Sorry to divert the thread from lamenting Jim's marketing shortcomings. I will say as a guy in the boardgame marketplace as a distributor for 10 years, it is a tough place to be, small margins, and markets, exposure is very tough to come by.

I'm going to jump in here for a moment as well -- not to lament anybody's marketing strategy -- but to throw in something that hits me as generically true for a lot of situations.

The money required to do a significant amount of marketing - even in the very narrow confines of "the boardgame marketplace - is money that often either doesn't exist or could be just as well spent on the product(s) itself.

The small margins and small market that Tim referred to means that the opportunity for ROI can be pretty limited. While it's great to see stuff we like getting some hype, we also have to keep the return on investment potential in mind. I think that occasionally gets forgotten in discussions (not necessarily this one) about what we wish this company or that company would do, it's easier to spend other people's money sometimes

(FWIW, I'm thinking more in terms of existing products here, not Kickstarter campaigns, just extending the marketing angle a bit)

[Young Drachma]

The Untold Story Behind Kickstarter Stats [INFOGRAPHIC] | Appsblogger.com

Kickstarter campaigns fail when the tribe of people who believe in the idea is too small.

Popularity matters. Just look at Seth’s Kickstarter project. Within 3 hours of launching his project, Seth already met his goal of $40,000. His project has now been successfully funded for $287,342, over 7x his goal.

So how do we determine popularity? Well, Kickstarter enables you to link your Facebook account to your project. And we determine your popularity by that most powerful of indicators: how many Facebook friends you have. Of course, I say that in jest, but your online social network is a pretty good indicator of your reach.

When Prof. Mollick looked into the data, he found that for every order of magnitude increase in Facebook friends: from 10 to 100 and from 100 to 1,000, the chance of a project succeeding increases hugely.

For that $10K project, holding everything else constant, if you had 10 Facebook friends, you would only have a 9% chance of succeeding. If you had 100 Facebook friends, your chance jumps to 20%. And if you have 1,000 Facebook friends? Your chance of succeeding is now 40%. Ah…the power of Facebook Friends of Founders (thanks to Prof. Mollick for this great alliteration).

As Seth said, “Kickstarter is the last step, not the first one.” Kickstarter is not a way for you to attract attention to your project. It is a way to “organize and activate [your] tribe”. But you have to build your tribe first.

Kickstarter is just a platform to present your project. But if you don’t already have a tribe or a way to get the word out to the masses (through media coverage), it will just be hidden amongst the thousands of other projects vying for attention.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

I'm guessing the press release and site were mine.
Basketball Bones by PT Games.
Funny you said a less interesting website since I follow Jim's model of minimal visual intrusion.
No harm or foul taken on my part. Glad to see you came, hopefully next week when the game is released you visit once again.

Sorry to divert the thread from lamenting Jim's marketing shortcomings. I will say as a guy in the boardgame marketplace as a distributor for 10 years, it is a tough place to be, small margins, and markets, exposure is very tough to come by.

I guess visually is what I meant. The white background of your site was not very pleasing to me. Sorry.

But yes, Your games do look interesting and Im sure I will be back.

[PilotMan]

I'm going to bump this and ask the few people who have gotten it how they liked it? I actually found a purchase link here:

Front Office Football: The Card Game

and this pic of the game



I like head to head coaching stuff like this and I wanted to know if it was something I should ask for Christmas.

[cartman]

I thought he never released it????

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cartman

I thought he never released it????

It didnt get enough support from kickstarter but he released a private version I do believe for those that wanted it.

[CraigSca]

Yeah, he's selling it at something like 30 cents above cost.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

This is my review from a couple of months ago:

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Finally played the game!

I have to say the mechanism that Jim created as to how the dice and offense and defense cards all work together is quite remarkable. There definitely was a bit of a learning curve (the directions could stand a rewrite IMHO) but once I understood the flow of how the game worked, I was able to get results quickly and easily.

Also, and I can't stress how important this is. You can look at a card at a glance and know if it is a card that is effective or not. It made me think of the APBA days, when I could cover up the player's name but look at the numbers on hsi card and I could immediately tell if he was good or not. Jim definitely captured that feeling, which isn't easy.

The way the game is supposed to be played is that each player builds a deck and from that deck you draw a hand of 8 cards. However, there are certain cards that are just money plays. Green Bay has this one pass play for instance that is basically unstoppable. Given how the game is supposed to be played, this card wouldn't be a show stopper because you would only have access to it maybe once or twice a game.

However, I prefer a game where I have access to all my offensive cards at once and based on what the defense does, I do well or I don't. So the way I am going to play the game is take out all the money plays, have each team pick out 20 plays or so on offense around ten plays or so on defense and just play with that deck the whole game. I feel like it works better that way.

I am glad I got the game. It does involve a lot of setup (the game came with all the cards unorganized unfortunately). But I do think there is a payoff at the end. So far I have tweaked the playbook settings and the way quarters work. With these tweaks, I think this plays a great game of football.

However , I haven't played it much since the review.

[SegRat]

I have it and happy I bought it.

[ColtCrazy]

For those that have it, can you do it in solitaire form? If so, it'll go to the top of my list. I know a ton of gamers locally, but none that enjoy sports sims like I do so it'll only be worth it if I could play it solo.

[Desnudo]

Put it on the iPad please. I know it's not your passion but FOFC was tailor made for touch and mobile is the now and the future.

[Danny]

I would definitely buy and play an Ipad version of FOF