OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.

Bingo. It was all supposed to be one book, and they made him spilt it into two.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Bingo. It was all supposed to be one book, and they made him spilt it into two.

Yes, and sadly the storylines they published didn't really have enough to them for a whole book. At least in my opinion.

[GrantDawg]

dola: and again, I'm not saying the book totally sucked. It just wasn't on par with the other three.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

dola: and again, I'm not saying the book totally sucked. It just wasn't on par with the other three.

I haven't read it yet (still don't have it), but I hear what you're saying. It's sort of like comparing the "Lord of the Rings" movies. You may say, well, "The Two Towers" is the worst of the three. Saying it's the worst of those three films is all relative. It's still an amazingly good movie.

I am in the midst of re-reading ASOS. Man, I love these books. Talk about "immersion" factors, once I start reading these books I can't stop thinking abou them.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."

As I'd tried to say in my earlier post (not very well, as I was sort of buzzed and really tired), I hope that when ADWD comes out, it will tie up whatever "hung up" feelings anybody had about AFFC. Since he more or less had to cut out a significant portion of AFFC to finally get it to print, I expect that ADWD will "round it out" and the combination of AFFC and ADWD will feel more like a complete book.

The best thing I can liken it to is Dan Simmons' "Hyperion," which on its own leaves you competely unfulfilled, but if you read the follow-on book to it, the book becomes much better.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

so has AFFC actually been released yet, or are people just getting it early from amazon? Cuz I need to pick it up, and I noticed on Amazon it says it's being released on 11/8? Is that accurate? So would I be able to find it in stores on that day, or what's the deal?

[terpkristin]

It was released a month ago in England. That is how I got my copy. I believe the others are in the same boat as I am.

That said.

I finished the book not too long ago. While I agree, it wasn't the best in the series, I didn't think it slowed down too much in the middle as I believe GrantDawg thought. As usual, some crazy stuff happened, and I can't wait to see what GRRM does with the mess he's made! I also think that this book will be "complete" when ADWD comes out, and will likely consider the two books as one...

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

okay. so i'll just pick up a copy on tuesday then. which should be right about when i'm done with ASoS

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm sure you guys saw this article on our man in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/bo...BJIv+goFAcsbXQ

He also posted this on his website:

The feast has finally been served, and the crows have taken flight... higher than anyone (including me) would ever have dared dream.
The American hardcover of A FEAST FOR CROWS was released on November 8, and immediately shot to the top of all the lists, making its debut at #1 on the NEW YORK TIMES bestseller list for hardcover fiction. That shriek you heard coming out of the west a few days back was me in San Francisco, roaring with delight as I got the news from Bantam. The highest I had ever reached on the TIMES list previously was #12, for A STORM OF SWORDS.
A FEAST FOR CROWS also hit #1 on the WALL STREET JOURNAL and PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY bestseller lists, and #2 on the USA LIST (which combines fiction and non-fiction). Amazon, Border's, and Barnes & Noble also had FEAST ranked as #1 in hardcover fiction.
Meanwhile the British edition, released by HarperCollins Voyager on October 17, broke in at #10 on the TIMES OF LONDON bestseller list for hardcover fiction, and edged up to #9 for its second week on sale.
Every writer dreams of making these lists, and to hit #1... to know your book is the bestselling novel in all of America... well, I still wake up pinching myself.
It is not something I could have achieved alone, however. Thanks are due to all the good folks at Bantam and HarperCollins for their faith in the series and their patience with the author, to the legions of booksellers who pushed the books on all those unsuspecting customers, and most of all to my readers. If there was ever a series that has grown through word of mouth, it is this one... so thanks to all of you who ever recommended A GAME OF THRONES to friends, kins, and coworkers. If the crows are flying high, it's only because all of you helped them take wing.


This is excellent news and well-deserved. I can't recall a series of books that ever gripped me like these. I can't get enough of it. I have been reading a Feast for over a month now, trying to savor it like a fine wine or delicious meal. I don't want it to end, but I only have 100 pages or so left... It must be done.

I agree, probably the weakest of the 4 thus far, but still incredibly enjoyable. I just love the world and the characters and the world. I enjoy being there. It's all relative of course, the weakest of this series is still infinitely better than most other things.

Once I'm done with Feast (will likely be this week), I plan to start a thread (spoiler warnings in the title) to discuss. Lady H_B got the book the same day I did, but refuses to read it because she doesn't want to read something that she will get emotionally involved in or some such nonsense. Her feet dragging is killing me, because I want to talk about the things that happened!

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I'm sure you guys saw this article on our man in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/bo...BJIv+goFAcsbXQ

He also posted this on his website:

The feast has finally been served, and the crows have taken flight... higher than anyone (including me) would ever have dared dream.
The American hardcover of A FEAST FOR CROWS was released on November 8, and immediately shot to the top of all the lists, making its debut at #1 on the NEW YORK TIMES bestseller list for hardcover fiction. That shriek you heard coming out of the west a few days back was me in San Francisco, roaring with delight as I got the news from Bantam. The highest I had ever reached on the TIMES list previously was #12, for A STORM OF SWORDS.
A FEAST FOR CROWS also hit #1 on the WALL STREET JOURNAL and PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY bestseller lists, and #2 on the USA LIST (which combines fiction and non-fiction). Amazon, Border's, and Barnes & Noble also had FEAST ranked as #1 in hardcover fiction.
Meanwhile the British edition, released by HarperCollins Voyager on October 17, broke in at #10 on the TIMES OF LONDON bestseller list for hardcover fiction, and edged up to #9 for its second week on sale.
Every writer dreams of making these lists, and to hit #1... to know your book is the bestselling novel in all of America... well, I still wake up pinching myself.
It is not something I could have achieved alone, however. Thanks are due to all the good folks at Bantam and HarperCollins for their faith in the series and their patience with the author, to the legions of booksellers who pushed the books on all those unsuspecting customers, and most of all to my readers. If there was ever a series that has grown through word of mouth, it is this one... so thanks to all of you who ever recommended A GAME OF THRONES to friends, kins, and coworkers. If the crows are flying high, it's only because all of you helped them take wing.


This is excellent news and well-deserved. I can't recall a series of books that ever gripped me like these. I can't get enough of it. I have been reading a Feast for over a month now, trying to savor it like a fine wine or delicious meal. I don't want it to end, but I only have 100 pages or so left... It must be done.

I agree, probably the weakest of the 4 thus far, but still incredibly enjoyable. I just love the world and the characters and the world. I enjoy being there. It's all relative of course, the weakest of this series is still infinitely better than most other things.

Once I'm done with Feast (will likely be this week), I plan to start a thread (spoiler warnings in the title) to discuss. Lady H_B got the book the same day I did, but refuses to read it because she doesn't want to read something that she will get emotionally involved in or some such nonsense. Her feet dragging is killing me, because I want to talk about the things that happened!

I'm looking forward to that thread. Put me in the camp that loved the book. Incidentally, my review has been rejected by all so far on Amazon. Haters gotta hate!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I'm looking forward to that thread. Put me in the camp that loved the book. Incidentally, my review has been rejected by all so far on Amazon. Haters gotta hate!

no reason someone else can't start the thread is there?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

no reason someone else can't start the thread is there?

No! None at all. Please feel free! I'll jump in "in media res."

[DaddyTorgo]

bump for some news from his "not a blog"

Oh, and I've also come up with a new title for the seventh (and final, I hope, I hope, I hope) volume of the series -- A DREAM OF SPRING. I like the sound of that a lot better than A TIME FOR WOLVES, which has been my working title for book seven up to now, and I also think it gives a better sense of the book that I want to write. So -- A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, then THE WINDS OF WINTER, then A DREAM OF SPRING. Shouldn't take me long (hah).

[finkenst]

i thought book4 was supposed to be the alst one?

i hate you grrm

[ISiddiqui]

i thought book4 was supposed to be the alst one?

Not since the 2nd book came out could you say something like that. Must not have been paying attention.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

bump for some news from his "not a blog"

Oh, and I've also come up with a new title for the seventh (and final, I hope, I hope, I hope) volume of the series -- A DREAM OF SPRING. I like the sound of that a lot better than A TIME FOR WOLVES, which has been my working title for book seven up to now, and I also think it gives a better sense of the book that I want to write. So -- A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, then THE WINDS OF WINTER, then A DREAM OF SPRING. Shouldn't take me long (hah).

A "Dream of Spring", eh? I like it, though it sounds wildly uplifting. Mayhap he'll only bump off a quarter the major characters in that one. I wait patiently...

[finketr]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not since the 2nd book came out could you say something like that. Must not have been paying attention.

i blame tk.

i wasn't paying attention, just got lots of time to read and grrm would be appropriate.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

A "Dream of Spring", eh? I like it, though it sounds wildly uplifting. Mayhap he'll only bump off a quarter the major characters in that one. I wait patiently...

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

I have this really vague theory about the Starks and Targaryen being connected somehow. Either Jon will marry Daenerys or they're somehow related already (through Rhaegar and Lyanna perhaps)..

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Coder

I have this really vague theory about the Starks and Targaryen being connected somehow. Either Jon will marry Daenerys or they're somehow related already (through Rhaegar and Lyanna perhaps)..

That's the leading theory by far of Jon's parentage, that he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and that whole "Promise me, Ned." thing was Lyanna making sure Ned promised to take of and protect her child, knowing full well that Robert would most certainly kill the child if he ever knew. The only one alive who really knows, of course, is Howland Reed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

Assuming Rickon is old enough to actually do anything when the series finally ends, I think he's going to be one large, angry, wild dude. . .

[sachmo71]

The Starks and Targaryens owe a lot of the same people some payback.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

The Starks and Targaryens owe a lot of the same people some payback.

Most definitely. Unfortunately, most of the worst offenders are already dead.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Assuming Rickon is old enough to actually do anything when the series finally ends, I think he's going to be one large, angry, wild dude. . .

Yeah, that'll be great... everyone dies, and suddenly Rickon comes back and says "What the Hell happened?"

[cschex]

Yeah, though knowing Martin, Rickon will get killed off in the next book. Seriously, I am not holding out hope for any of my favorite main characters to live through the series...I think I would be a little disappointed if Arya, Tyrion, Jon and Dany all survived. It would seem a little less...Martinesque.

I can take comfort in that fact that I am sure Jaime is a dead man.

[ISiddiqui]

Someone has to live in the end though. Or else who would end the book?

I'm not sure Jaime is the marked man. He may be the one who ultimately survives in the end, with a totally different outlook than he had at the beginning of the series (which has already occurred, of course). I think maybe Jon and Dany get together, Jon ends up dying, but not before impregnating Dany and Arya & Tyrion are up in the air whether or not they live or die.

Or maybe Jaime sacrifices himself to save Tyrion. Who really knows?

[3ric]

I think Howland Reed has got to be one of the most eagerly anticipated characters yet to appear in a book... all because of what he knows.

[finketr]

who the heck is howland reed?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by finketr

who the heck is howland reed?

He is a crannogman, the father of Jojen and the girl (name is eluding me at the moment) with Bran. He's Lord of Greywater Watch and one of Ned's best friends. He and Ned were the only two to survive the fight against the last three Kingsguard: Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and the other one. He was there when Ned found Lyanna all bloodied. He's still hanging out in the swamps.

[ISiddiqui]

LOL... those two post in succession were great. "Howland Reed is the most anticipated character". "Who the fuck is Howland Reed". Hehe..

[Vince]

Is there even a timetable yet for A Dance with Dragons?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Vince

Is there even a timetable yet for A Dance with Dragons?

No. There was some initial talk of later this year, but I would guess later next year is more likely. Late summer/fall of 2007, but that's just complete speculation (and probably some wishful thinking) on my part.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

No. There was some initial talk of later this year, but I would guess later next year is more likely. Late summer/fall of 2007, but that's just complete speculation (and probably some wishful thinking) on my part.

I didn't think there was, but I was hoping...

[DaddyTorgo]

Arthur Dayne. Is there even a cooler character in the whole series? Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?

You and everyone else in the Seven Kingdoms it seems. I loved that scene where Myrcella mentions Arthur Dayne to Gerold Dayne (aka "The Darkstar") and he goes off on how there have been generations upon generations of Daynes throughout the ages but the only anyone ever remembers or mentions is The Sword of The Morning.

The Darkstar is a bit of a tool.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think it's just because it's such a cool image...The Sword of the Morning. The first sword of the day, the sword with the light of the sun forged into its blade...it just seems so epic.

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i think it's just because it's such a cool image...The Sword of the Morning. The first sword of the day, the sword with the light of the sun forged into its blade...it just seems so epic.

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

That is definitely one of the strengths of these books. The history of the world is so richly detailed and interesting. It really feels like a living, breathing world and you're just sort of jumping into the middle of one in a series of epic events within it.

While I don't think it'd ever happen and I know the outcome, I would love to read a thee book series on Robert's Rebellion.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That is definitely one of the strengths of these books. The history of the world is so richly detailed and interesting. It really feels like a living, breathing world and you're just sort of jumping into the middle of one in a series of epic events within it.

While I don't think it'd ever happen and I know the outcome, I would love to read a thee book series on Robert's Rebellion.

yeah. the rich history of this world is what really kept me going about midway through book one when i sorta felt like i might lose it. i just thought to myself "but there's so much history already revealed, and so many little nuggets of things, i've got to read on."

and yes i agree. a 3 book series, hell even a 2 book series on Robert's Rebellion would be amazing once we're done with this story, give us the real full detail of what happened once we know the truth about "promise me" and all of that.

or what about a 2-booker on the Targs' rise to power?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

Why would he do it in that scene, when he could just release a Book of the Kingsguard afterwards .

Though my favorite nickname is "The Late Lord Frey"... hehe.

The history is the best part of the books, especially how utterly detailed the world is, with all the houses and relations. Martin has to have a chart a freaking mile long to keep everyone straight! If you want to see something , take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...f_Ice_and_Fire

That's all the characters mentioned in the books. That list streaches forever! Though I, personally, find the heirarchy of all the Frey's at the end of the books to be far more impressive, because everyone is accounted for, no matter how small.

[RendeR]

And to think, I thought he was called "sword of the morning" because he woke up with a raging hard on every day.....

[Vince]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Arthur Dayne. Is there even a cooler character in the whole series? Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?

The Sword of the Morning, especially with a blade of Valyrian Steel named 'Dawn,' is one of my favorite nicknames for any character in any series ever.

[cschex]

"Sword of the Morning" is an awesome name, but it isn't exclusive to Ser Arthur. It is a title given to an eminent Dayne wielding Dawn. There have been many Swords of the Morning throughout Westerosi history.

That being said, I'd buy a three book series just about Arthur Dayne. What a kickass character.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

He is a crannogman, the father of Jojen and the girl (name is eluding me at the moment) with Bran. He's Lord of Greywater Watch and one of Ned's best friends. He and Ned were the only two to survive the fight against the last three Kingsguard: Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and the other one. He was there when Ned found Lyanna all bloodied. He's still hanging out in the swamps.

oh, that guy... i remember now.. I'd forgotten about it since we NEVER got to see/hear from bran/rickon and hodor in AFFC...

i'll need to keep the wiki page loaded at all times to remind of who's who.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.

awesome!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.

SWEET! Nice find .

[Bad-example]

Mostly because of this thread, I read this series recently. I found it every bit as entertaining as I was led to believe.

"The Mountain That Rides" is my favorite nickname.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, very nice chapter... makes me want the next book even more!

[terpkristin]

DARNIT, HOW CAN HE TORTURE US SO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
____________________________________________
From GRRM's "Not A Blog":
Meanwhile, for those who do read this page... yes, I am still working on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and yes, I still hope to deliver it this fall, or by the end of the year at the latest.

I also have other news about A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. A couple of things, actually, that I think will please and excite fans of the series. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them yet. Watch my News page, though. I should have a few big announcements in the next few months.
_____________________________________________

What the heck is that? How can he give us something THAT tempting and just be so casual about it?!?!?!

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

DARNIT, HOW CAN HE TORTURE US SO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
____________________________________________
From GRRM's "Not A Blog":
Meanwhile, for those who do read this page... yes, I am still working on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and yes, I still hope to deliver it this fall, or by the end of the year at the latest.

I also have other news about A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. A couple of things, actually, that I think will please and excite fans of the series. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them yet. Watch my News page, though. I should have a few big announcements in the next few months.
_____________________________________________

What the heck is that? How can he give us something THAT tempting and just be so casual about it?!?!?!

/tk

End of the year at the latest is about 9 months earlier than I was expecting it. So, that's something.

As for the big announcement... Agreed tk. Unacceptable. Unacceptable, indeed!