The FOFC Mole Official Thread

[Thomkal]

Great work on this Brian. I have no graphics skills, so someone else will have to do that. Again I'll ask why dont we find out which tribe did one part of the map? Should help us with the orientation without sacrificing one of us. Likely will mean taking money out of the pot to get this information from the host, but I think it will be a good investment

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Each person that makes it across with a treasure will add $ to the pot. Only one person will be in the field at a time.

Cool, thanks. Will that person's path be revealed?

[BrianD]

One other thought is that someone should step through the frames of the minesweeper video to get the list of numbers that were displayed. There is probably a code in there somewhere.

[Barkeep49]

My plan is that we essentially get one person to get the whole treasure for us. What happens to the rest is irrelevant. So we use up to 6 of us plotting a safe course for the 7th person.

[Passacaglia]

Let's see how this looks:

G G M G G G G G M G
M M G G T M G G G G
G G M G G G G M G G
G G M G G M M T G M
G G G G G G M G G G
G G M T M M G G G M
G G G G G M G T M G
G M G G G G M G G G
G G G M G G T M G G
G M G M G G G M G G

[Passacaglia]

Let me get a better image.

[Passacaglia]

http://www.geocities.com/amadaun17/humanminesweeper.doc

[Passacaglia]

The lines didn't come out as dark as they did when I made it in excel, but it's there -- everyone should be able to check their region.

[Passacaglia]

G stands for Good -- no mine or treasure.

[Barkeep49]

I would suggest then that the first person enter at A2 (or what Pass calls B3).

[Passacaglia]

Here's a thought -- if we can rotate pieces, how do we know this whole thing isn't rotated?

[Barkeep49]

I think it's quite possible that the whole thing is rotated. According to the rules a person can't enter at A2. I think the job of person 1 is to figure out which rotation we're at.

[Passacaglia]

I'm still not sure what you mean by A2. Brian's method confused me, since I'm used to more of a chess-board setup. Can you see the rows and columns as they're labeled in my word doc? Maybe that's a better method.

[samifan24]

Wow, this challenge really makes my head spin. I hope the others are a little easier.

[MJ4H]

I didn't mention it earlier, but a person can only carry one treasure at a time. If you already have one, you cannot pick up another one.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Cool, thanks. Will that person's path be revealed?

Yes each person's moves will be displayed in the thread. Everyone will see all the action.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Wow, this challenge really makes my head spin. I hope the others are a little easier.

Some are. Of course, maybe this challenge is easier than it seems. Maybe someone is making it hard?

[samifan24]

Well I volunteer to go first.

[path12]

Not to be a spoilsport or anything, but are we sure we've got the right way up?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Not to be a spoilsport or anything, but are we sure we've got the right way up?

No -- that's what I was saying earlier. Maybe we should ask for which tribe made each piece? That might help us out. But there's not necessarily a correlation between location and tribe (though it does seem likely).

[BrianD]

When we give our paths, do we have to send in every move at once and then find the results, or can we send some of the moves, see the results and then send some more moves?

I'm thinking we should walk a path from beginning to end, then backtrack, grab a treasure and return to the original path. If we are successful in the whole trek, we should be able to carry a treasure along a known good path and not find a mine after we pick up a treasure. It seems that there are 6 treasures (5 shown, 1 hidden), so we can't all grab one anyway.

I'd also suggest we not bother with asking who created which map pieces unless you guys really think it will help us. Now that we've got the map together, I'm not sure how that information would help. I figure that the first time someone hits a mine, that should tell us which way the map needs to be turned...unless we get unlucky and hit a hidden mine first.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by BrianD

When we give our paths, do we have to send in every move at once and then find the results, or can we send some of the moves, see the results and then send some more moves?

I'm thinking we should walk a path from beginning to end, then backtrack, grab a treasure and return to the original path. If we are successful in the whole trek, we should be able to carry a treasure along a known good path and not find a mine after we pick up a treasure. It seems that there are 6 treasures (5 shown, 1 hidden), so we can't all grab one anyway.

I'd also suggest we not bother with asking who created which map pieces unless you guys really think it will help us. Now that we've got the map together, I'm not sure how that information would help. I figure that the first time someone hits a mine, that should tell us which way the map needs to be turned...unless we get unlucky and hit a hidden mine first.

I can see that. I think 4 of the pieces weren't rotated at all, so this seems to be the most likely orientation for doing it. I'm thinking the first person should try to cover as much ground as possible, maybe going right up to some of the treasures, but not getting any -- he's likely to catch a hidden mine, but hey, he might catch the treasure, and more importantly, he'll clear a path that we know won't have hidden mines.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I would suggest then that the first person enter at A2 (or what Pass calls B3).

I finally figured out what BK meant. Are you trying to get us from left to right? I was thinking we went from bottom to top.

[Passacaglia]

Looking back at the rules, we do go from bottom to top.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think it's quite possible that the whole thing is rotated. According to the rules a person can't enter at A2. I think the job of person 1 is to figure out which rotation we're at.

I wasn't sure what this meant, either. Assuming you thought we were moving from left to right, why couldn't we enter at A2?

[Passacaglia]

So there I was, staring at my map, when someone came by;

"oh, that looks neat -- what is it?"
"uh...it's a floor plan for my new condo" (pretty quick thinking on my part)
"oh i like floor plans, let's see it"

I click over to it, revealing this square thing that looks nothing like any kind of living space

"i'm just kind of playing with objects now, before I get measurements of the rooms and everything"

Then she started talking about her brother using Quicken to try to figure out how expensive of a house he can afford, and thankfully the topic of my crazy floor plan ended.

Damn you, Mole!!!!

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by BrianD

When we give our paths, do we have to send in every move at once and then find the results, or can we send some of the moves, see the results and then send some more moves?

You can do as many moves as you'd like at one time. One move or 100 moves. You will simply tell me which square you are entering on (1-10, left to right) and then directions from there. Once you give a number, you are standing on that number. So, if you enter on square 5, you are then standing on square 5. You don't have to say "North" or something to get to square 5. Saying the entry square puts you in it.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So there I was, staring at my map, when someone came by;

"oh, that looks neat -- what is it?"
"uh...it's a floor plan for my new condo" (pretty quick thinking on my part)
"oh i like floor plans, let's see it"

I click over to it, revealing this square thing that looks nothing like any kind of living space

"i'm just kind of playing with objects now, before I get measurements of the rooms and everything"

Then she started talking about her brother using Quicken to try to figure out how expensive of a house he can afford, and thankfully the topic of my crazy floor plan ended.

Damn you, Mole!!!!

So awesome.

[MJ4H]

Just to try to be as clear as possible, this is a sample path someone might take through the minefield (note: there is no clue as to what a safe path might look like here, this is only an example).



In order to acheive this, the instructions would be:

5, N, NE, NW, N, W, W, SW, S, NW, N, N, NE, E, NE, N, N, N

Note that giving the number 5 puts you into the 5th square from the left next to the Bacla Tribe village, which is the village you start in.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Just to try to be as clear as possible, this is a sample path someone might take through the minefield (note: there is no clue as to what a safe path might look like here, this is only an example).



In order to acheive this, the instructions would be:

5, N, NE, NW, N, W, W, SW, S, NW, N, N, NE, E, NE, N, N, N

Note that giving the number 5 puts you into the 5th square from the left next to the Bacla Tribe village, which is the village you start in.

Thanks, that helps. If a player steps on a mine, will we find out where it happened?

[MJ4H]

Yes.

[MJ4H]

Incidentally, you'll notice I didn't put a deadline on this. I want you guys to work at your own pace. I would however, like to get started moving through the field tonight or tomorrow if possible.

[Barkeep49]

My point is that from the map that we have assembled, we don't know which side is up.

[Passacaglia]

Here's my suggestion for the first person:

7
NW
N
NW
W
W
NW
NE
NE
NE
N
N

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

My point is that from the map that we have assembled, we don't know which side is up.

I agree. We either need to do something about it, or not. My last post is based on the assumption that we do know which side is up. If we think it isn't, then forget I posted that!

[MJ4H]

Maybe something to spur a little creative problem solving, too.

There are hints available for purchase.

You may inquire about the tribe that mapped one of your pieces. From this, you may deduce which side of their map piece is nearer to that tribe and is therefore at the bottom of their map piece. This will cost your team $5,000 from the group pot.

You may also ask for a more subtle hint about the location of some key information you may be missing and/or overlooking. This hint costs only $1,000, but will be more subtle. There are actually 2 of these hints available.

There is definitely enough information available to obtain a complete map, including hidden items, without using hints.

[Passacaglia]

But to explain my suggestion a little...my initial thought was to have the first person scour as much territory as they could, avoiding all the treasure and mines. If he finds the big treasure, great. If he finds a mine, we know where it is. But then I thought that, hey, there's 5 hidden mines, and one hidden treasure -- it's going to be a wild goose chase finding that thing, and I think we should not bother with it. The path I've laid out clears the way to 3 of the 5 treasures, picks up the last treasure, and crosses to the other side. If there's no mines, we get that treasure that's way to the north. If we hit a mine, we know where to avoid to get them. Thoughts?

[Passacaglia]

Do we get to choose the piece?

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Do we get to choose the piece?

Yes, though it shouldn't really matter.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, though it shouldn't really matter.

Re-reading, I guess your right -- I assumed that would tell us the nearest tribe, not the tribe on the bottom.

Also, my path should have another N at the end -- I assumed that once you got to the top row, you're good, but MJ4H's seems to have an N to get out of the grid.

[Passacaglia]

your right? Man, lunch is calling.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Re-reading, I guess your right -- I assumed that would tell us the nearest tribe, not the tribe on the bottom.

Also, my path should have another N at the end -- I assumed that once you got to the top row, you're good, but MJ4H's seems to have an N to get out of the grid.

I'm just not making the assumption that you always want to exit the grid when you are on the top row. Maybe you are a treasure hunter, after all.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Maybe something to spur a little creative problem solving, too.

There are hints available for purchase.

You may inquire about the tribe that mapped one of your pieces. From this, you may deduce which side of their map piece is nearer to that tribe and is therefore at the bottom of their map piece. This will cost your team $5,000 from the group pot.

You may also ask for a more subtle hint about the location of some key information you may be missing and/or overlooking. This hint costs only $1,000, but will be more subtle. There are actually 2 of these hints available.

There is definitely enough information available to obtain a complete map, including hidden items, without using hints.

I think we should be asking for one or both hints here as I've said all along. There's a mole at work here no doubt trying to sabotage the mission, so we should get as much info as we can before taking our first step into the minefield. And there has to be info in that video that can help us.

Having said that, if people are so strongly convinced we can do this without the hints and be successful, I will go along with it.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But to explain my suggestion a little...my initial thought was to have the first person scour as much territory as they could, avoiding all the treasure and mines. If he finds the big treasure, great. If he finds a mine, we know where it is. But then I thought that, hey, there's 5 hidden mines, and one hidden treasure -- it's going to be a wild goose chase finding that thing, and I think we should not bother with it. The path I've laid out clears the way to 3 of the 5 treasures, picks up the last treasure, and crosses to the other side. If there's no mines, we get that treasure that's way to the north. If we hit a mine, we know where to avoid to get them. Thoughts?

Sounds like a good plan Pass.

[path12]

I get that we all need to exit from a different square. Do we have to start from different ones also?

[path12]

I was just looking back to refresh my memory. Did anyone notice page 3 has changed?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

I was just looking back to refresh my memory. Did anyone notice page 3 has changed?

Just saw that now. No big deal -- MJ4H warned us the mole might do that, so everyone should have a copy on their hard drives. I think everyone should verify that what I have for your piece in post 157 (which is on my website and can't be changed) is right.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Just saw that now. No big deal -- MJ4H warned us the mole might do that, so everyone should have a copy on their hard drives. I think everyone should verify that what I have for your piece in post 157 (which is on my website and can't be changed) is right.

I had checked earlier and my piece is correct on your grid.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by path12

I get that we all need to exit from a different square. Do we have to start from different ones also?

No. You may enter anywhere you'd like. Once a square is used to exit, it will be blocked off to everyone else. You can still pass through the square, but you may not leave the grid from it. I will mark these on the map as they happen so that you remember.

[Passacaglia]

Can we assume that there are no hidden mines in a space where there is treasure?