MUT22 - No Money Spent (Madden Ultimate Team)

[QuikSand]

Michael Vick drops today in the Legends program... he's a move-the-needle player in Madden, and likely will make today a great buying opportunity (as a lot of people will buy and open packs in search of him). Since I remain so far away from Marino for my Browns team... I may even grab a Vick whole they are (hopefully) cheap.

I am still anxious to get to a full Browns roster, but as long as QB is non-viable there, I might as well have fun. I have poured some money into the roster (did the Rison set twice, and kept him maxed-out the second time, and finally committed to get the RT Conklin upgraded). I moved my captain to SS John Lynch for now, using him at FS for the moment - he's a major improvement there. Still thin at DL, so that may change.

Anyway...today could be an active day.

[QuikSand]

I’m as 560K in cash, with 4x 89 cards up for sale hoping to get 300K for them. Have other odds and ends out there too… probably 1m in assets not tied up in the active roster.

[QuikSand]

OMG the market for Vick is insane… abandoning the idea of getting those cards for now, will instead try to make money off less exciting Legends cards like LT Joe Thomas… Vickhunters are ripping packs and spewing all their non Vick cards… I have the pieces for two full JT sets in hand now hoping to sell for a profit come Monday.

[QuikSand]

For a guy like me, with limited gold, the relatively cheap power up card for Michael Vick plus the training to take him up to 89 or 90 will prove to be way, way cheaper than just buying the 90 rated card directly. Complete opposite of the situation with other Legends like Thomas et al.

[QuikSand]

I know it is hard to create proper context, for those who are not as immersed as I am in these markets… But everything is relative to training price. A 90 card, in the market right now, should sell for about 100 K in gold… That is basically training price, meaning the card has no extra value beyond its ability to immediately convert training.

The 90 card for Joe Thomas is selling right at 90 or 95K. A little bit below training. So, it is a good value to buy right now, if you really need training, as noted above. The Charles Woodson card, that also dropped today, it’s 90 version is selling for 250 K. The Michael Vick 90 card is selling for 510 K. That is how weird this market is right now.

[QuikSand]

Mut.gg now showing training prices dropped yet again…My investments this morning, I’ve basically all the cash I had, were predicated on this being temporary… And that the current training price of 16 is unsustainable and will grow back up to 20 or 22 by the end of the weekend. If not, I am probably leaking even more cash. So it goes.

[QuikSand]

There is a particularly curious situation happening right now with a power up card for Michael Vick. There are more than 100 copies available in the marketplace, of that exact card, which creates a presentation problem. As I have mentioned before, the auction viewer in the consul, and for the most part in the handheld app, is only capable of showing 100 cards at a time. This is a great source of market imperfections, under many different circumstances. But usually, a savvy manager can filter down to a set of cards fewer than 100, to see the entire universe.

Here, because it looks like they are 150 or so copies of this exact card in the market, the game only shows the 100 that are closest to completion. Meaning, most people are only seeing the cards that have survived their first 20 or so minutes on the auction block… Meaning all the cheap prices have been grabbed, and only high prices remain. If you are cash rich, and I am not right now, for as long as this remains the case… There is money to be made by simply buying cards as soon as they drop into the market for 10 K, listing them for 18 K, and profiting about 20m later.

[QuikSand]

I also continue to keep at least one eye on the Andre Rison set. Most of these team diamonds have lost their profitability… When the sets first came out, most of these cards were selling for well over 200 K… Many of them now are only around 100 K. Because the component parts have not shrunk in price along with the top card, assembling the set is now a money sink. And for me, without a huge store of cash, the ability to do all 32 of those sets, in order to get the big Dan Marino card and it’s power up card, is a far away dream. I just don’t have enough money to do it.

That said, for reasons I got into earlier in this thread, the Andre Rison card remains interesting… The last copy I saw selling was still over 200 K. Right now there are zero copies available. So, I continue to splash around both buying and selling the various components in this set… If I have Consol access soon, I may even take a look at what I could get for my own copy of the 90 card. But, there continues to be interest in the set, meaning there is weird and somewhat unpredictable interest in component cards…It is not completely random, but it is weird that certain cards… Nothing special about them, just rated in the 70s, and cards that should sell for about two or 3000 coins… Routinely spike up to 6000, 10,000, even 20 or more. So, I am just fiddling around and buying low, selling high when I see an opportunity.

[QuikSand]

Wow. After no copies of the 90 Rison card were available for a while, somebody posted it for 555,000 and sold it. Dayum.

[QuikSand]

There are now two copies of rising on the market… The lower of the two is around 500 K or higher is 900 K. The longer things sit this way, the more super charge the market out to be for all the component parts… People seeing $’s if they can just assemble their own set and post one for 400 K, they will clear nice tidy profit. I am the guy trying to take cards that I’ve previously purchased for 3000, and sell to that guy for 25,000.

[QuikSand]

I do not have access to my consul, so I cannot uncouple my Andre Rison 90 card in order to sell it. If I were at home, I would do that, and go post it for 480,000.

[QuikSand]

The 90k Rison guy wised up, reposted for 460k, and got a sale. Just the 500k left now. Temporarily very lucrative.

[QuikSand]

Now five copies of the 90 Rison card available… Lowest price 396K. Everybody is trying to get in on this.

[QuikSand]

…just occurring to me this is likely fallout from the Vick card. Lots of semi committed Madden players suddenly saying “hey I’ll do a Falcons team around Vick” and I’m just sitting here with all the dope to deal.

[QuikSand]

Basically, I am the guy selling picks and shovels

[QuikSand]

The trick here, sometimes, is that it’s hard to know how far down the rabbit hole I should be willing to go. Right now, supply of the 80 Matt Ryan card is pretty limited, and that is part of the Rison set. It’s correct market price is probably eight or 10,000 gold. Right now, if I someone for less than 15, I just buy it and list it for 25 or 30 or 45, in hopes that mine will be the last one available for somebody who is itching to get their copy of Rison out onto the market. So far so good, I have purchased two, sold two, then purchased two more, and… well, how many more would I buy to keep enforcing this artificial scarcity? I cannot sell my copy for 40 K if there are others on the market, but do I want to buy two, three, four, six additional copies at 10 K just to try to make one sale at 40?

[QuikSand]

And right after posting that, I just bought another Ryan for 14, so my 44 would be the cheapest one available. All I need is one good high margin sale, and this is all worthwhile, otherwise I could end up tomorrow morning with 11 copies of Matt Ryan that I don’t really need or want.

[QuikSand]

Party mostly over now. 90 Rison back in reasonable supply, low price 276K… still a shade high but not absurd any longer. I think I’ve cleared maybe 160k during this weird little run, all buying and selling trinkets.

[QuikSand]

Don’t look now, but they are only two copies of the 90 Andre Rison card on the market, the lower price is 350 K. I’ll be giving a look at my inventory, to see if there’s anything left that I can sell at a premium. I already see 177 rated card that is selling for 40,000 coins. Might be silly season again.

[QuikSand]

So, nothing too interesting today... I separated my 90 Rison and posted it for sale at 340K, but I was too late, prices started creeping down soon afterward, and I won't get a sale, almost certainly. No harm done there.

I had a copy of 90 Cribbs for sale and when it went for 188,888 I checked and there was a short term shortage there... so I built another one and posted it for sale around the same price. Then i saw one pop up for 135,000 and bought it and posted it, as well, near 190K. So far, no bites on either, I might end up holding the bag.

Prices drifting modestly up (training was down to 17, now drifting to 19ish)... I have a sizable amount of capital tied up in cards I want to sell so I'd welcome a small swell in prices for a bit, just to sell off.

I'll do a status update on the Browns theme team soon, it's basically up to date save for a handful of very expensive things that I simply cannot buy with my means.

[QuikSand]

The QB situation for the CLE team is so frustrating. I am basically now to the point where I can live with the entire roster except my 81 Baker Mayfield. The only themed option out there is the big Dan Marino card, and even just the Power Up card is still going for 500K I think. Just out of my price range.

I had been thinking the Michael Vick was my tide-me-over, but... they clearly nerfed the intermediate cards that you can build with the Power up card plus training. Sure, you can get him to a 90 overall rating, but he will not even resemble the same player shown on the 90-rated card (going for 700K). Speed of 85 rather than 93... that's just a big "fuck you" to people like me.

So... I either keep rolling with my limber but unthemed Vince Young... slum it with Baker...or I don't know what else. Likely just sit back with Vince and wait for someone to pop up in one of their programs. I'd be down for Otto Graham, why not.

[QuikSand]

Wow, the flood of Legends cards from Saturday must have dried up… my 92 Joe Thomas just sold for 262,999 after sitting all day as a high priced outlier. I may try to steal some condole time and build another copy or two, to try to take advantage.

[QuikSand]

TE Njoku seems like a possibility for a TOTW card, despite the loss.

[QuikSand]

TOTW each week includes three featured players based on performances of days gone by. WR Miles Austin gets a 92 card tomorrow… he breezed through Cleveland for one season so his power up card will allow CLE chemistry. Nice addition.

WR Will Fuller gets a 93 limited edition card for someday, he may be the best speed receiver in the game now, will cost a ton.

[QuikSand]

Sitting at just shy of 400K in cash, and have several big cards for sale…realistic yield for all of them totaling 800K. Add in another 100k of fluff and I’m practically speaking sitting on about 1.3m.

I’ll probably try to buy the pieces of the Miles Austin set when TOTW pops this morning, it always creates a short term market dip for those cards. I’m supposed to have an active morning so we’ll see.

[QuikSand]

So, my Browns theme team is at a sort of plateau now… I have nearly every cheap option fulfilled, and due to market conditions am sitting ready to decide where to invest in the more expensive stuff:

-WR Rison is powered up as far as he goes without his 90 card, and is my WR2. For about 225K I can buy/keep the 90 card, add the Route Technician skill, and he’s a high end possession receiver.

-WR Cribbs similar, his top card is cheaper at around 150K, with it he’d be a decent left side X deep threat and return man.

-RB Chubb is sitting at 89 or 90, and needs the top card to max out as a high end power RB, I’m watching the market but cheapest price is around 325K now.

-CB McCourty is positioned the same way, but the delta is huge with his final card…CB isn’t sexy but this feels important to get him to 92 and much much better for around 125K

-WR Austin will sit as the next big thing but it’s not clear he’d be a huge improvement over Rison, and I don’t really rely on WR3 a ton right now…expensive, likely onto the “down the road” list (or possibly a Rison alternative)

So, as far as cards that are currently available, that fit the Browns themed team… These are really the remaining branches on the tree for me. I currently own the Rison card, the Cribbs card, and the McCourty card… I have a total of five copies of these sitting on the auction block, so I could easily just withdraw them from the sale, and upgrade what I have.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

TOTW each week includes three featured players based on performances of days gone by. WR Miles Austin gets a 92 card tomorrow… he breezed through Cleveland for one season so his power up card will allow CLE chemistry. Nice addition.

Austin card opens up around 330K for the 92card, and another 50K for the Power Up. Components for the set are priced crazy high for now, but if they simmer down, it could get more reasonable, I'll hope.

[QuikSand]

With prices making their mild but predictable rise from Saturday to midweek, I have sold off nearly all the cards I wanted to, and am up over 1.1m in cash. From my list of team improvements mentioned above:

-the 90 Rison card never sold at my asking prices, and has fallen off in value, I just melted it back into the Power Uo and expect to keep it

-I sold 3x of the 92 Joe Thomas cards, assembled from set cards purchased last Saturday during the Legends frenzy… at a mild profit but not a major one

-the CB McCourty card I bought and sold a few times is now mine via weekly challenges, so that’s done

Anyway, a new program launches tomorrow: Most Feared, a multi week release w a Hallowe’en theme and waves of new cards, both current and historic players. Usually fruitful.

[QuikSand]

Team Diamonds - a (sort of) wrap up post

I noted here, with some enthusiasm, the team diamonds program. A pretty big deal for this game in its yearly cycle, it provides one high-level player for each franchise, available to gain by completing an expensive set of various players from that franchise. This year, the team diamond players were rated 90, making them among the most useful and coveted players in the game at that time. In addition, there was an extra incentive, if you completed all 32 of the team diamond sets, you gained tokens sufficient to complete a set for a supercharged 95 Dan Marino card, Which was both the highest rated card in the game, and usable with all 32 theme teams. A deliberately very powerful card, and one that many people would engage the lengthy process to obtain. Overall, this is a pretty well thought out program to launch in the early stages of this year long campaign.

Now, the situation has changed. The various 90 rated team diamond cards are no longer highly coveted, they are no longer generally speaking selling for 250 K… Many of them are now selling for more or less training value, which for a 90 rated card is about 100 K. There are still a handful that sell at a premium, but that is more like 180 K. Prices for the relatively modest components of these sets, however, have not shrunk along with the price for the top and card… Meaning that finishing these individual sets is no longer profitable, or even a break even proposition. For the relatively boring cards that are now selling for 100 K, purchasing the components might cost 175K, or thereabouts.

So, the net effect of this program, now that it has kind of run its course, is that the rich got richer, and the poor get the picture. If you had lots and lots of coins, or lots and lots of time, or preferably both… You went out and assembled all 32 of these sets, got many of those players, sold them back for more coins at a profit, and then assemble the Dan Marino and his power up card… And you now probably still possess the most powerful card in the game. Or, alternatively, you sold the Marino card at a premium price and got back, say, one and a half million coins.

I landed somewhere in the middle. I never had enough coins to really engage in all 32 sets, so I did my own bit of profiteering here and there, I ended up completing six of the sets, a few of them more than once, and did OK by the whole thing. But now, the Marino card is basically unreachable for me. I can’t afford to sync 1 million coins in the process of doing the remaining 26 of these sets, just in hopes of getting a Marino card that sells now for 800 K.

It’s fine, the way I play this game, committing to not spending real money, means that I miss out on some of the high-end things… They want to have things in the game be so moving and exciting to push people to pay real money through micro transactions. I get it, it is a business.

So, in practical effect, I think my ability to continue grinding out coins as components of these sets will be much more sparse. I have done the Andre Rison set six or seven times now, and I have bought and sold some of the peculiar parts for that set many times over. Now, I am seeing some of the peculiar cards that had previously been selling inexplicably for 10 or 15 or 20 K… Those cards are now available for 3000 coins. Two weeks ago, I would jump on this… Now, I just don’t have much confidence that there will be resilience in these sets. I will probably finish Rison one more time, try to sell it for 180 K, and that’s probably it.

[QuikSand]

My dream scenario for the weeks ahead, is that as part of the most feared program coming up… They will once again have a segment of players labeled as scary fast. This alongside a section of scary strong, and some thing else similarly named. What my theme theme desperately needs is for the Madden creators to decide that they are scary fast quarterback for this program will be RG3. They have already introduced Michael Vick into the game, there are already pretty good cards for Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray… RG3 would be an excellent complement to the array of scrambling quarterbacks. And he’d get Browns chemistry of course.

Make it so!

[QuikSand]

(Please forgive audio typos)

[QuikSand]

Hit 1.5m in cash so that’s nice

[QuikSand]

I wrote off that Rison set too early, on fire tonight.

[QuikSand]

I’m where I want to be this morning…mostly in cash as the new Legends drop and hopefully we see another mini market crash.

I have 1,865,848 on hand. Training going for around 22… last Saturday that dipped to nearly 17, hoping for the same today. Planning to load up on cheap Legends, including Joe Thomas, and do some more training upgrades on the CLE roster.

[QuikSand]

Reminder….the “training price” is a shorthand for the state of the overall market.

Example: a 90 rated player quick sells for 5,000 training points. In today’s market, if I’m a bit patient, I can get a 90 card (one who isn’t in especially high demand) for about 110,000 gold… paying 22 gold for each training point.

My hope is that the 90 Joe Thomas will have a supply bump today as people open packs, and that price will drop to something more like 85,000 to 90,000. But last week was Michael Vick, a big event…today some less exciting new players in Andre Johnson and Ronnie Lott.

[QuikSand]

So among the prizes awarded in the new “Most Feared” program are special strategy cards that make a MAJOR effect on players from that program in your lineup. Only usable vs CPU opponents, not for serious online gamers, but for me…potentially a big deal.

One makes those guys super fast (+10 speed!) but tiny. That’s been interesting. The others I haven’t fiddled either yet are super strong, and super tall. Will fiddle around a bit, especially with a roster loaded with these MF players.

But could be the text phase with my Browns as I await a good themed QB? Maybe a tiny but fast 90 Derek Carr? Or a monstrous DT Jonathan Allen?

[QuikSand]

Prices remaining stubbornly high today, even inching upward. Rison set still ablaze so I’m churning out coins but I’m shocked there are so few easy buying opportunities.

[QuikSand]

Meanwhile, while I still plan to go about my business building a theme theme, I can’t help but wondering if these special bonus cards for the most feared program going to be game breakers, at least for challenges and other things where it’s you versus the CPU. I’m thinking about my Brown’s team right now, that I’m using for challenges and such things… Normally I get some bonuses out of having Browns players, they get chem benefits etc. but if I salted in six or eight quality players from the most feared program, and use the special card to give them all +10 speed… Even if they’re small in stature, I think they would be demons. I don’t know how overwhelming the strength and height bonuses would be if you use those instead, but speed kills. Even a wide receiver who is only the equivalent of 5 feet tall, if he can run 5 yards deep behind his cover man, he’s going to be open all the time. Guys with 99 speed At this point in the game well most players are still in the 80s or maybe 9091, will be unbelievably difficult to defense. I think this is going to be basically a cheat code, in the situation where they are usable. And maintaining a roster that does not feature all this garbage, is basically going to be House rules.

(Please forgive audio typos)

[QuikSand]

The hot market for 90 Rison corrected, down from 300K+ to around 230K now. I’m semi stuck holding two copies and down to 1.66m in cash.

[QuikSand]

So, while the market remains pretty high… There are relatively few buying opportunities that feel wise. I am still splashing around in the component parts of the Andre Rison set, I am occasionally looking at what is posted among the redux players rated 91, and I have been occasionally speculating with the 84 team builders players, buying around 20 and trying to sell around 30. None of this is very thrilling. An up market, and being cash Rich, is a boring combination.

[QuikSand]

In the event that I get some Consol time today, I expect I will play around a little bit with my Browns theme team, add in a few most feared players and the card that makes them super fast, and see how that team plays in a few challenge games. I can get a 90 rated card that is unusable other than for gameplay, and right now I am leaning toward making tiny Derek Carr my starting quarterback for the Browns theme team… He will be even faster than Vince Young, and the height should not be as much of a problem for QB as it is for a receiver or other position.

[QuikSand]

So, I finally decided to go ahead and start build my team intending to use these special strategy cards that come with the most feared set. Turns out the whole program is only good through Halloween, so it’s just a couple weeks of game breaking nonsense, then basically back to normal. Sounds fine, might as well take advantage.

Anyway, I decide that for my free 90 card, I will take QB Derek Carr. I think it would be fun to have him run around at super speed, albeit tiny.

Well, I don’t know what the story here is… But it doesn’t work. My other players from the set are all fast and tiny, but QB Carr is unaffected, with any of the three strategy cards. I cannot find anybody who has written about this. I am bummed.

[QuikSand]

What stinks here is not just the cost of using a limited resource (a free 90 card) but also the uncertainty about what to do with my next one. If it were just "a free card only helpful if you play the guy" then a 90 DT would make a ton of sense as a stopgap. But if there's a "fun to play with the October buff-ups" element, then I might want to go with a CB/S/WR to really pile on the speed effect.

However, I cannot tell whether my glitch is because Carr is a QB, because he's from this NCAT offering, or something else. And my ideal response would be different based on answers to that question. Ugh.

[QuikSand]

Tuesday's Team of the Week cards ... only CLE guy I could see as a longshot would be WR Donovan Peoples Jones, but they lost so unlikely.

I'd guess CeeDee Lamb as the top player of the week, defensive cards for WAS LB Cole Holcomb and LV DE Maxx Crosby, and presumably a couple others sprinkled in. Longshot case for Tua, whose best card is a 79 right now.

[QuikSand]

After a couple of sales today, clicked over $2M in cash for the first time, peaking now at 2,292,953.

While prices have been high I knocked out a couple more Team Diamonds sets, but doing all 32 for Marino remains a long shot.

[QuikSand]

My son’s team played the Most Feared challenges, and his version of Derek Carr did not get the Scary Speed buff… I’m assuming they just merged it for QBs, not unreasonable but annoying for a short time promo.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, my Browns theme team is at a sort of plateau now… I have nearly every cheap option fulfilled, and due to market conditions am sitting ready to decide where to invest in the more expensive stuff:

-WR Rison is powered up as far as he goes without his 90 card, and is my WR2. For about 225K I can buy/keep the 90 card, add the Route Technician skill, and he’s a high end possession receiver.

-WR Cribbs similar, his top card is cheaper at around 150K, with it he’d be a decent left side X deep threat and return man.

-RB Chubb is sitting at 89 or 90, and needs the top card to max out as a high end power RB, I’m watching the market but cheapest price is around 325K now.

-CB McCourty is positioned the same way, but the delta is huge with his final card…CB isn’t sexy but this feels important to get him to 92 and much much better for around 125K

-WR Austin will sit as the next big thing but it’s not clear he’d be a huge improvement over Rison, and I don’t really rely on WR3 a ton right now…expensive, likely onto the “down the road” list (or possibly a Rison alternative)

Status report:

Rison MAXED
Cribbs MAXED
Chubb (have bought card, flipped for profit, waiting until after MF promo)
CB McCourty MAXED
WR Austin (have completed the set 1x, flipped for profit, may use TOTW leverage today to buy the max cards and keep it)

DE Garrett - waiting for a Redux version of the former LTD card to emerge in the next few weeks, then will quickly move to max him out

DT ... no plan, I've been rotating in 3x DEs as my DL base in nickel, but really don't have a plan here staying within the theme... DT Allen could be the easy choice for my next free 90 MF player, despite him presumably not capitalizing on super speed very much

[QuikSand]

TOTW a total dud this week, for me and lots of others:

Check out all of the new TOTW items and their team history below:

93 Vernon Butler Jr | DT | LTD | Panthers, Bills
92 Jonathan Taylor | HB | Player of the Week | Colts
92 Vernon Davis | TE | Offensive Champion | 49ers, Broncos, Washington
92 Lem Barney | CB | Defensive Champion | Lions
88 CeeDee Lamb | WR | Cowboys
88 Matthew Wright | K | Jaguars, Steelers
85 K.J. Osborn | WR | Vikings
85 Markus Golden | ROLB | Cardinals, Giants
81 Darrell Henderson Jr | HB | Rams
81 T.J. Watt | LOLB | Steelers

TE Davis likely the new meta guy, past that meh. Vernon Butler is the historic hero for a two sack game two years ago? Ummm okay.

[QuikSand]

Right now, it is the 88 rated new players from the TOTW series that are cheap… I have been grabbing them under 50 K. I don’t think there’s going to be a huge market for them as a set cards, but I suppose some people will want the Jonathan Taylor, and that will require three copies of the CeeDee Lamb. Lamb is in more demand than the kicker, no shock.

[QuikSand]

The blur when a new batch of cards is released is interesting, and sometimes profitable... right now it's the 88s that are anomalous... with some patience, you can buy an 88 card from this week's set for about 50K, while the cards from last week's set are going for 75-90K, last I checked. This week's sets seem unusually weak, but that's still 50K or less for 2,130 training, which is not a risky play at today's market rates.

I don't want to sink 1M coins into this, but I might do half that in hopes of flipping the same cards back into the market in a few days for 60-65K apiece. Or, possibly, wait until the market resets and the price for the 85 Osborn/Golden cards come back to earth, and I can build the weekly TOTW sets under market value and sell then for a profit.