The Thread for Bitching About Soccer or Arguing Against Bitching About Soccer

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Why don't we see more? How much do you see? I see plenty.

Of course I can do stupid juggling tricks the guys down the road from you can do. That is not what is in those videos. Those are making world class defenders look silly. And if you think the guys down the block from you can dribble pass and shoot like these guys you are patently insane.

I don't think I've seen any...all the highlights I ever see with any kind of physical play is some pansy flopping around like a fish out of water after getting his hair ruffled.

Making world class defenders look silly? If you're allowed to play a physical game like you say they can, then I'd hardly call those guys "world class" because that's some awful defending.

Let me put it this way, try that fancy dan crap on the ice and you better have your head up. If you succeed in making a fool of your opponent...do expect to get knocked on your can...one way or another some time in the future.

[Sun Tzu]

Yeah...I'm sorry it's hard to respect beating a good defense when the other guy isn't even allow to touch you. It's much different in football or hockey where some of the defenders are literally trying to separate your head from the rest of your body, and if you don't have your head on a swivel they very well may succeed.

In regards to kids participating in soccer, I'd be willing to bet that soccer has always been popular with kids. Well...at least the kids who suck at baseball/football. Here's how it worked when I was a kid.

1.) You play baseball or football...if you're at all good then you're popular...if your hand-eye-coordination is terrible...then you move on to #2
2.) Play AYSO or whatever it's called...you run around wearing shorts and funny looking socks kicking a ball that looks like it's covered with dalmation skin...if you're good, at least people know you exist...if you can't even do this half-way decent...then you move on to #3
3.) Learn to play an instrument and start growing your hair long...if you can't even do that...move on to #4 (the last resort)
4.) Buy dungeons and dragons, and hang out with "those" kids

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I don't think I've seen any...all the highlights I ever see with any kind of physical play is some pansy flopping around like a fish out of water after getting his hair ruffled.

Making world class defenders look silly? If you're allowed to play a physical game like you say they can, then I'd hardly call those guys "world class" because that's some awful defending.

Let me put it this way, try that fancy dan crap on the ice and you better have your head up. If you succeed in making a fool of your opponent...do expect to get knocked on your can...one way or another some time in the future.

OK, we have established a couple of things. You don't watch soccer or haven't paid enough attention to it to see any physical play at all and you think it is very important for a sport to enable you to knock the shit out of people with skill for you to get any enjoyment out of it.

For me, with that established, I'm not really sure what the point of continuing is, but go ahead if you'd like. I'm not really interested in continuing to discuss the game with you anymore, nor in discussing the pros and cons of overly physical play.

Just not interesting to me. Maybe someone else can take over for me here?

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I grew up playing soccer at a very high level so I love the sport but I can certainly understand why Americans would hate it. If every NFL game was 10-3 we would hate football also.

Every football game is 3-2, they just multiply it by 7.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

OK, we have established a couple of things. You don't watch soccer or haven't paid enough attention to it to see any physical play at all and you think it is very important for a sport to enable you to knock the shit out of people with skill for you to get any enjoyment out of it.

I don't know if he's saying that he doesn't enjoy it if there isn't a chance of the ball/puck carrier getting knocked out, I think he's comparing the difficulty levels of doing what people do on the soccer field to what people do on the ice.

I don't know that you could win an argument stating that beating a couple defenders who aren't allowed to touch you is harder than beating a couple defenders who are allowed to break your neck almost however they see fit.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Just not interesting to me. Maybe someone else can take over for me here?

Please, somebody take over and keep fucking that chicken.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I don't know if he's saying that he doesn't enjoy it if there isn't a chance of the ball/puck carrier getting knocked out, I think he's comparing the difficulty levels of doing what people do on the soccer field to what people do on the ice.

I don't know that you could win an argument stating that beating a couple defenders who aren't allowed to touch you is harder than beating a couple defenders who are allowed to break your neck almost however they see fit.

This is one of the many reasons why I'm done here. Good grief.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This is one of the many reasons why I'm done here. Good grief.

Maybe instead of "aren't allowed to touch you" I should have said "aren't allowed to impede your movement."

But seriously...in competitive sports is that not the same thing?

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Please, somebody take over and keep fucking that chicken.

[Calis]

I think I have a different definition of impede also. Soccer definitely allows that.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

That's because, JediKooter, you have a subtle understanding of baseball but not soccer. In soccer you're like a novice Chess player who only sees one or two moves in advance unlike the expert who sees ten moves in advance. When you fully understand the game then you get the same response to yours to a cornerkick etc even as a team moves into the opposition's half because you can visualise the possible consequences. If I'm emotionally involved in a game the anticipation/anxiety starts to kick in as my team/opposition takes up the ball and starts to move forward. The emotion builds until, in the case of a goal or near-goal, it explodes in elation or depression.

It's about the ability to anticipate action early in the piece which only comes from experience of the game.

That I definitely understand. But, yes, it's hard for me to see plays develop when watching soccer unless one team is near the other teams goal.

That elation or depression is there for sure, especially when a player has an opening to score a goal and his kick goes over the net or is wide of the net. You want to strangle the dude. It's all the stuff that happens in the middle of the field that I don't understand.

As I'm watching some of the world cup games, I'm thinking, why aren't they getting themselves into a position to get a pass and then break loose down the field towards the goal? I do understand staying in your position and all that, but, they seem content to keep the defender as close to them as possible and if the pass is intercepted, oh well.

The other things that bother me are the complete lack of consistency on the awarding of yellow/red cards and the lack of balance these prime athletes seem to have. They can do all these fancy things with the ball using their feet and never fall, but, the second an opposing player gets close, they fall down. The theatrics of the flopping around and acting like they just got a bazooka to the face is beyond ridiculous. I find it actually worse than when an NFL player show boats after scoring a touchdown, which I can't stand by the way. I know it's a very small part of the game, but, it is so blatant, that it actually eclipses the good parts at times.

I don't hate the sport and don't understand a lot of it and I would like to see some changes, but, I also know those will never happen. It seems to be a sport with a long history of traditions (much like baseball), which will make changes slow and rare to come by. Oh, and get some scantily clad ladies on the sidelines.

[Sun Tzu]

Yeah...if soccer ever made it big in the states, I think it would require some cheerleaders. I'm not talking NFL cheerleaders either, I'm talking the kind of cheerleaders from the movie The Replacements.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

You're allowed contact, hell you can take a guys legs out provided you get the ball first.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

You're allowed contact, hell you can take a guys legs out provided you get the ball first.

But after you a guy's legs out, sometimes he gets right back up. THIS SPORT IS SHIT

[JediKooter]

What if you hit his balls first? Legal?

[Pumpy Tudors]

OF COURSE YOU CAN HIT THE BALLS FIRST, HAVEN'T YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION? HIT HIS BALLS AND THEN YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT

[MizzouRah]

Soccer/footie is the shiznit.. NBA sucks.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

My turn. I played football/basketball/baseball until high school where I started playing lacrosse as a freshman.

My favorites were football and lacrosse because of the collision aspect of the physicality instead of just a contact aspect. During my lacrosse years soccer ended up being something I did in my downtime to increase endurance/stamina.

I concur that soccer can be physical, that there is contact, but it is not nearly as physical as the more violent collision sports and definitely takes a different type of toughness. The big drawback continues to be the little buttweasles that dive all over the place, the complete unwillingness of the governing bodies to make obvious, necessary changes, and the massive corruption of the FIFA dirtbags that makes David Stern's NBA look legitimate.

Soccer has the potential to be as big in the US as anywhere else but it won't happen until the garbage aspect of the game disappears. No more quitting on a play to raise your hand and beg for an offside. No more rewarding little polesmokers for grabbing their ankle and rolling around like they were shot. No more surrounding officials and begging for cards every freaking time you don't sucker him into buying your crap on a dive.

Get rid of the effiminate, pathetic, weasely, worthless crap that no real man would ever do and you'll have a successful US sport.

I can't really disagree with anything in this post and I love the game.

[ISiddiqui]

What is all this, you can't respect a players skill in breaking down a defense unless they are allowed to rape your corpse bullshit?

So, what, basketball and baseball are pussy sports with no skill either?

And if so, then basically you aren't really into competition, just violence. In that case, just watching boxing or MMA, you goon.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

OK, we have established a couple of things. You don't watch soccer or haven't paid enough attention to it to see any physical play at all and you think it is very important for a sport to enable you to knock the shit out of people with skill for you to get any enjoyment out of it.

For me, with that established, I'm not really sure what the point of continuing is, but go ahead if you'd like. I'm not really interested in continuing to discuss the game with you anymore, nor in discussing the pros and cons of overly physical play.

Just not interesting to me. Maybe someone else can take over for me here?

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I don't know if he's saying that he doesn't enjoy it if there isn't a chance of the ball/puck carrier getting knocked out, I think he's comparing the difficulty levels of doing what people do on the soccer field to what people do on the ice.

I don't know that you could win an argument stating that beating a couple defenders who aren't allowed to touch you is harder than beating a couple defenders who are allowed to break your neck almost however they see fit.

Sun Tzu is on the right track...that fancy footwork is what most sporting enthusiasts call showing the opponent up. It's disrespectful to do that kind of crap...where I come from, at least. In a contact sport (where more than "incidental" contact is allowed) you can try that fancy ass crap all you want but you're more than likely going to end up on your ass than you are scoring a goal or TD. If you happen to pull it off, well if you don't get popped right after scoring then you'll get what's coming soon enough.

But then again, when you get guys diving all over the field begging for penalties then class and respect, for themselves and their opponents, have obviously been checked at the door on the way into the stadium.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Sun Tzu is on the right track...that fancy footwork is what most sporting enthusiasts call showing the opponent up. It's disrespectful to do that kind of crap...where I come from, at least. In a contact sport (where more than "incidental" contact is allowed) you can try that fancy ass crap all you want but you're more than likely going to end up on your ass than you are scoring a goal or TD. If you happen to pull it off, well if you don't get popped right after scoring then you'll get what's coming soon enough.

So when Kobe does a head fake on a drive to the basket, it's showing an opponent up? What about when a running back does a spin move to dodge a tackle? That's pretty fancy footwork as well? But I guess where your from, that IS just showing off...?

And you are allowed a lot of contact in soccer. Much more then is allowed in baseball and basketball.

Why don't they allow slashing in hockey? Chop Blocking in football? Because someone could get hurt.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What is all this, you can't respect a players skill in breaking down a defense unless they are allowed to rape your corpse bullshit?

So, what, basketball and baseball are pussy sports with no skill either?

And if so, then basically you aren't really into competition, just violence. In that case, just watching boxing or MMA, you goon.

A fastball in the ribs from 60 feet hurts, I assure you. Because of that fact, if you happen to knock one out on a guy then you put your head down and run around the bases...show some respect.

Basketball, not a fan.

[ISiddiqui]

So basically unless there is violence, you don't care. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, because if you aren't then you arguments sound even dumber than I thought possible, and yes I am somewhat channeling JIMG, but it is deserved.

You are a goon then. Go ahead and root for brawls and fights and don't complain when a game breaks out in the middle of them.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So when Kobe does a head fake on a drive to the basket, it's showing an opponent up? What about when a running back does a spin move to dodge a tackle? That's pretty fancy footwork as well? But I guess where your from, that IS just showing off...?

Did you even watch that clip of highlights? Most of that clip was elaborate crap that was completely unnecessary and likely not seen very often while you'll see a common spin move multiple times in every game by several players. A better football related example would be somebody trying to hurdle a would be tackler...and I'm not talking about a guy who's already going down low on you...I'm talking about basically high jumping a guy. It rarely works and the ball carrier usually ends up on his head and gets up pretty slowly...but when it does work you can bet that the guy you made a fool of will be looking to take your head off the next time you have the ball.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So basically unless there is violence, you don't care. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, because if you aren't then you arguments sound even dumber than I thought possible, and yes I am somewhat channeling JIMG, but it is deserved.

Not at all...I love baseball and we can all agree that it isn't a violent sport...but the moment you show disrespect then it could become very violent. I'm not saying I can't wait for those moments to happen, in fact, I'd love for them not to happen at all, but what I really hate is to see assholes show up a pitcher by standing at home plate and watching the ball leave the park and then saunter around the bases like he's in some Thanksgiving Day parade.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You are a goon then. Go ahead and root for brawls and fights and don't complain when a game breaks out in the middle of them.

Never been in a fight in my life...not on the ice, not on the diamond, not even on the playground. I've plunked a few douches in the back with a fastball and I've crosschecked a few "fancy dans" in front of the net...but they knew they had it coming and that was the end of it. That's the way it should be.

Show respect, get respect.

Hard to find that attitude on the soccer pitch...in my experience, at least.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm not the complete moron who decried skilled play because there wasn't the threat of getting plowed under.

And now you are calling it a respect thing, which is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I realize you are trying to backtrack, but try something less utterly stupid, please. Before it was "anyone could do it" because you aren't getting your block knocked off... now it's a respect thing... because of course they aren't trying the footwork to get past a player 1 v 1.

Please. I respect intellectually honest dissent (say you tried and found it dull because you couldn't get into it, fine), but not the bullshit you are peddling.

[johnnyshaka]

Glad you soccer fans can keep things civil. (odd coincidence, i guess, I just finished watching Green Street Hooligans...lol)

Not backtracking at all, MJ4H said himself that he can dribble and juggle like those guys so they aren't using any smoke and mirrors in those clips. My contention is, and always has been, that guys would be much less apt to do that crap if defenders could give opponents a reason to think twice about trying to make them look like 5 year olds. What man wants to be made a fool of in front of millions?

But, again, like I said before, if guys are willing to roll around on the ground after getting their shoelace stepped on and get carried off on a stretcher when they were complaining about a sore wrist then I guess I should not expect them to understand respect.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Glad you soccer fans can keep things civil. (odd coincidence, i guess, I just finished watching Green Street Hooligans...lol)

Not backtracking at all, MJ4H said himself that he can dribble and juggle like those guys so they aren't using any smoke and mirrors in those clips. My contention is, and always has been, that guys would be much less apt to do that crap if defenders could give opponents a reason to think twice about trying to make them look like 5 year olds. What man wants to be made a fool of in front of millions?

But, again, like I said before, if guys are willing to roll around on the ground after getting their shoelace stepped on and get carried off on a stretcher when they were complaining about a sore wrist then I guess I should not expect them to understand respect.

No I didn't. I said I can do the stupid juggling tricks the guys down the road from you can do. Don't put words in my mouth for your stupid arguments.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

No I didn't. I said I can do the stupid juggling tricks the guys down the road from you can do. Don't put words in my mouth for your stupid arguments.

Right, and I said the guys down the street could do a lot of what was in that clip...so......

Ah, nevermind....I don't like soccer...I'm sorry you don't like my reasons why.

I promise not to post those reasons in the thread for bitching about soccer ever again.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Did you even watch that clip of highlights? Most of that clip was elaborate crap that was completely unnecessary and likely not seen very often while you'll see a common spin move multiple times in every game by several players. A better football related example would be somebody trying to hurdle a would be tackler...and I'm not talking about a guy who's already going down low on you...I'm talking about basically high jumping a guy. It rarely works and the ball carrier usually ends up on his head and gets up pretty slowly...but when it does work you can bet that the guy you made a fool of will be looking to take your head off the next time you have the ball.

You talk about showing a team up but you completely ignore the TD celebration in football yet chastise baseball players for doing the exact same thing.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

You talk about showing a team up but you completely ignore the TD celebration in football yet chastise baseball players for doing the exact same thing.

Can't stand the TD celebrations and am glad that they are flagged for doing them now.

[MJ4H]

facepalm

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The big drawback continues to be the little buttweasles that dive all over the place, the complete unwillingness of the governing bodies to make obvious, necessary changes, and the massive corruption of the FIFA dirtbags that makes David Stern's NBA look legitimate.

I think that's a big drawback but I don't think it's the only drawback. I've been trying for the past few weeks to articulate this in sociopolitical terms. I think one reason soccer is big elsewhere and not so much in America has to do with some of the social and philosophical aspects of the game. I think that most of the world takes soccer seriously whereas Americans take winning seriously.

Here's the nickel version of my view: Americans are obsessed with winning, yet soccer is one of the few sports that recognizes the nobility of a tie. In fact, if you're playing a team better than you, a tie is considered a victory. I've watched way too much soccer where one or both teams were playing for a tie rather to win, and for lack of a better word that is "un-American." I don't think Americans will ever embrace a sports where winning isn't the goal for everyone.

I know someone will point out how upset people in other countries get when their national team loses in the World Cup. That's why I say other countries take soccer more seriously but we take winning more seriously. They are upset because soccer is their identity, not because they lost. We don't have that identification with soccer, and I seriously doubt we ever will.

[larrymcg421]

There's clearly alot going on all throughout a soccer match, so I never understood that complaint. I really think part of the problem with soccer is the constant frustration. Americans like to see their superstars succeed. And in soccer, there's constant failure except for a couple brief moments throughout the 90 minutes.

Imagine if basketball were setup like soccer and Jordan was considered a superstar because he scored about one basket per game (see: Pele's 643 goal in 656 matches). I doubt Americans would tolerate that.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Fair enough. After a reread, what you are saying is that sports watched massively by Americans are reserved for truly gifted athletes. Other sports that aren't watched massively by Americans let non-truly gifted athletes in.

Sorry about the confusion.

ETA:

I'll raise you 100 lbs

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

There's clearly alot going on all throughout a soccer match, so I never understood that complaint. I really think part of the problem with soccer is the constant frustration. Americans like to see their superstars succeed. And in soccer, there's constant failure except for a couple brief moments throughout the 90 minutes.

Imagine if basketball were setup like soccer and Jordan was considered a superstar because he scored about one basket per game (see: Pele's 643 goal in 656 matches). I doubt Americans would tolerate that.

Meh, I disagree with this. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the greatest Wide Receiver to ever play the game, and arguably the greatest player to ever set foot on the field. Rice started 284 games in his career and scored 207 touchdowns...that's means if you were watching him play you had less than a 75% chance of seeing him score. I agree with a lot of the things said in this thread, but I don't think this one quite works.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you want to see bitching about soccer, let my lunch plans be ruined by someone having the volume turned up on the vuvazela concert that'll surely be on the restaurant TV.

The next Athens Banner-Herald headline you see might involve a well-known FOFC'er if that turns out to be the case.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Meh, I disagree with this. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the greatest Wide Receiver to ever play the game, and arguably the greatest player to ever set foot on the field. Rice started 284 games in his career and scored 207 touchdowns...that's means if you were watching him play you had less than a 75% chance of seeing him score. I agree with a lot of the things said in this thread, but I don't think this one quite works.

Yeah, but they see him succeed by getting numerous key catches for first downs which is a quantifiable measure that you're not going to get for that Winger who keeps making great cross passes to set up scoring opportunities that hardly ever get finished.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Meh, I disagree with this. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the greatest Wide Receiver to ever play the game, and arguably the greatest player to ever set foot on the field. Rice started 284 games in his career and scored 207 touchdowns...that's means if you were watching him play you had less than a 75% chance of seeing him score. I agree with a lot of the things said in this thread, but I don't think this one quite works.

His team failed to score more than once in only 21 of the 298 games he appeared in during his career.

Find a soccer player above rec league age who the same can be said about.

[Sun Tzu]

The analogy used was regarding single superstar athletes and individual success via scoring, not team glory. Of course Rice made numerous key catches throughout games, but I imagine this Pele fellow must have had numerous key moments throughout his games too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yeah, but they see him succeed by getting numerous key catches for first downs which is a quantifiable measure that you're not going to get for that Winger who keeps making great cross passes to set up scoring opportunities that hardly ever get finished.

the great crosses are the success.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

The analogy used was regarding single superstar athletes and individual success via scoring, not team glory. Of course Rice made numerous key catches throughout games, but I imagine this Pele fellow must have had numerous key moments throughout his games too.

I imagine he did, and if I picked up the paper the next day to read abotu a game where he scored zero goals, how do I find out about these other moments?

But I think Rice was a bad example anyways. Wide Receivers, even the best one ever, will never be the biggest superstars. It all comes down to QB's. And yes, if the best QB in the league could only lead their team to one score per game, then people would not be wild about football. This is why the NFL has constantly changed their rules to benefit the offense.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I imagine he did, and if I picked up the paper the next day to read abotu a game where he scored zero goals, how do I find out about these other moments?

But I think Rice was a bad example anyways. Wide Receivers, even the best one ever, will never be the biggest superstars. It all comes down to QB's. And yes, if the best QB in the league could only lead their team to one score per game, then people would not be wild about football. This is why the NFL has constantly changed their rules to benefit the offense.

Rice, IMO, has gone beyond the "only QB's are superduperstars" idea. The guy has become the Jim Brown/Barry Sanders of his position. You could argue that Terrell Owens or Tim Brown might suffer in popularity because of their position, but not Rice.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Rice, IMO, has gone beyond the "only QB's are superduperstars" idea. The guy has become the Jim Brown/Barry Sanders of his position. You could argue that Terrell Owens or Tim Brown might suffer in popularity because of their position, but not Rice.

Jerry Rice was never NFL MVP, while Joe Montana won it twice.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

the great crosses are the success.

Right, I understand that, but the average American sports fan won't. They view success as scoring points. If the cross passes led to as much success as Jerry Rice's catches or Magic Johnson's behind the back pass, then maybe you'd have something.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Jerry Rice was never NFL MVP, while Joe Montana won it twice.

Alright...well if your argument is going to morph into something else right in the middle, I'll do the same.

There is absolutely no possible way you can compare the position of quarterback, in any way, shape or form, to anything involving the sport of soccer. The level of difficulty involved in playing QB on a professional level surpasses that of an entire nations soccer team combined.

period.

Just mentioning the quarteback position in a thread that is directly comparing the two sports is argument suicide if you ask me.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Alright...well if your argument is going to morph into something else right in the middle, I'll do the same.

The hell? I directly answered what you said. You claimed Rice transcended his position and I responded by showing that he didn't even transcend it on his own team.

There is absolutely no possible way you can compare the position of quarterback, in any way, shape or form, to anything involving the sport of soccer. The level of difficulty involved in playing QB on a professional level surpasses that of an entire nations soccer team combined.

period.

Just mentioning the quarteback position in a thread that is directly comparing the two sports is argument suicide if you ask me.

Okay, well I started with basketball and you brought up football. I could care less how well the positions match up across sports. My point is American sports fans like seeing their superstars succeed, whether that is by scoring points themselves or doing things that lead to points being scored. You don't really have that in soccer, and I think that is one roadblock preventing Americans from embracing the sport.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

My point is American sports fans like seeing their superstars succeed, whether that is by scoring points themselves or doing things that lead to points being scored. You don't really have that in soccer, and I think that is one roadblock preventing Americans from embracing the sport.

Although this isn't really something I'm bitching about in terms of soccer, your comment brings another issue to mind. Americans also tend to like watching dynastic teams, either as bandwagon fans or as bandwagon haters. Once you get beyond the national team level, how many people can actually name a top club? i.e. I suspect a Family Feud question like "Name a top soccer team" could get a decent number of Brazil or even Argentina answers, but how many Man U's would they get from surveying 100 Americans?

I mean, I think it's safe to say that I know a good bit more about soccer than the average American (thanks largely to CM) and I don't even like watching it, so how well could that many people figure out what bandwagon to climb on/off?