The NBA 2014 Offseason Thread - Page 4

Groundhog · 06-23-2014, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets.

Arles · 06-23-2014, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Rumor has it the Lakers want Klay for the #7 pick. Lots of rumors out there lately.

Kerr has come out and said that he's not in favor of getting rid of Klay, which is a nice diplomatic move that should help keep him a little happier if he stays.

Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though

Blackadar · 06-23-2014, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets.

I sincerely doubt he gets by Boston at #6, who has a history of taking risks with guys with questionable health issues (Jared Sullinger).

Blackadar · 06-23-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though

Yeah, I don't see that one happening. Klay's performance + youth makes him more valuable than the #7 by a long shot.

Rumors persist that if the Celtics don't land 'Melo or Love, they might move Rondo for that #7 pick. Rondo's 28, his contract is expiring and he may not want to go through a rebuilding phase.

Logan · 06-23-2014, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though

Not saying it makes it good or bad but I imagine getting a guy on a rookie contract vs giving Thompson monster money next year would play a big part in it.

Vince, Pt. II · 06-23-2014, 11:29 AM

Yeah, the Warriors are running out of room to pay people. They'd rather not go the Miami route of having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill the bench.

Most of the talk includes the Lakers as the third team in the mix, but I don't know how you get a nice piece from someone WITHOUT giving them Klay Thompson, and the #7 is not a nice enough piece.

stevew · 06-23-2014, 11:30 AM

Hey, if I absolutely have to, I'd give Jarrett Jack back to the Warriors.

Qwikshot · 06-23-2014, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets.

I don't think the Sixers are a dark horse...if Cleveland and Milwaukee pass, I'm pretty sure they're going to scoop him up. There is no driver to have him play next season...as I've said, if the Sixers make the playoffs (which they won't), they lose a 1st rounder.

Hinkie is about acquiring assets, a big man that can shoot is always valuable. A year off with no pressure to return could allow Embiid to recover and learn the game without rush.

If Cleveland or the Bucks grab him, then the Sixers have Wiggins or Parker...it's a win-win.

Cleveland is in a win now mode, I could see Parker as the more polished of the two going there, but if they want someone to defend on the wings, then Wiggins will be their man. There is chatter of Exum going to Milwaukee, I don't see that happening...

Everything will be decided on Cleveland's pick, and the reverberations will go from there.

It's always been a three horse race between Wiggins, Parker and Embiid. I don't see the Sixers trading down.

stevew · 06-23-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

A week ago, Joel Embiid looked like a lock to be the No. 1 pick in the draft. News of a stress fracture in his right foot sent the Cavs spinning. Now the Cavs are wrestling between three options: draft Jabari Parker, draft Andrew Wiggins or trade the pick.

Sources close to the Cavs told ESPN.com this weekend that the Cavs are now leaning toward taking Parker with the No. 1 pick. However, it's far from a lock. Parker came in to work out on Friday in front of the Cavs front office and ownership. Parker wasn't great. He was a bit heavy (he weighed in at 255 pounds), didn't shoot the ball well and got winded at times. Furthermore, two different sources told ESPN.com that Parker seemed a bit indifferent. One source said he thought Parker "tanked" the workout.

Why? A source says he strongly prefers to play in Milwaukee. The Cavs appear to be aware of this. "Jabari wasn't himself," one source said. "It was clear we weren't his first option."

Meanwhile, Wiggins came in and nailed his workout on Wednesday. He shot the ball well, showed off tremendous athleticism and had a good interview. In fact, Wiggins was emphatic that he wants to be the No. 1 pick and wants to play for the Cavs.

So why is Parker ahead of Wiggins?

From what I can gather, while there are disagreements in the front office, Cavs GM David Griffin feels that Parker fits a more immediate need at the 3. Parker also is the most NBA-ready. They feel that whether he wants to play there or not, those hesitations will disappear when he arrives. They have a new front office, a new head coach and believe that he can actually help them build the sort of culture they want. Parker's workout on Friday did create doubt, especially among ownership, but so far it looks like they are still leaning Parker.

The third option, a trade, is also on the table. The Cavs received intriguing offers from the Sixers, Magic and Jazz late last week. Each is offering its own high lottery pick plus a veteran. The Cavs could theoretically get one of Thaddeus Young, Arron Afflalo or Derrick Favors and still have a top-5 pick in the draft. It would make it much easier to draft Embiid if you knew you got additional value in the form of a veteran who can help now.

This was from Insider. I'm probably leaning Wiggins but I'm still intrigued by the thought of moving down and picking up a player and still taking Embiid. Like if we could get 4, 12, and Afflalo I really like that cause it frees up the ability to make some other trades. We could still get Exum at #4 if Embiid is taken, we could perhaps get Randall, Saric or McDermott at #12.

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Rumors persist that if the Celtics don't land 'Melo or Love, they might move Rondo for that #7 pick. Rondo's 28, his contract is expiring and he may not want to go through a rebuilding phase.

I think I'd do that. I just don't trust Rondo to be an elite player that deserves a max contract, and if we really liked Smart as much as reports say (or Orlando/Utah pass on Exum and he falls to us at 6), I could easily see us doubling up with a guard and one of Gordon/Vonleh/Randle at 6/7 (I really don't see Embiid dropping to 6 at all, but obviously would snap him up in a heartbeat). Maybe we could even get the Lakers to throw in a future #1 the way they're being run.

The rumor on Saric now has him signing a 2-year deal with a 3rd year player option with a Turkish team, meaning he'll probably fall to us at 17 unless ATL picks him at 15 or a surprise happens. I know plenty of fans would be dissapointed if we picked a guy who wouldn't be here for 2 years, but I actually love that option. The way good players on rookie deals are the 2nd most valuable asset in the league (after true max-level players) having him develop for 2 more seasons before we get our 4 years of cheap control would be great imo. Or it just gives us another trade asset that costs $0.

Although who knows - there are still 5-6 other options at 17 that have potential. Nurkic, Capela, James Young, Kyle Anderson, Ennis, maybe Zach LaVine. I don't really want another low-ceiling player like a Shabazz Napier or a TJ Warren, even if I love his old-man game that would be a natural successor to Paul Pierce's

Thursday's gonna be great. US-Germany at noon and then 5 hours of NBA draft speculation.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 02:01 PM

The caveat here: If he stays for the full 3 years, he is not bound by the rookie scale at all. Meaning: While no other NBA team can sign him, whichever team drafts him still has to compete with European teams to sign him in 2017.

rumour posted by a san antonio journalist about Duncan declining his 10 mio player option and instead signing a new 2 year contract, presumably allowing the Spurs more cap room this summer. If true, the gift that keeps on giving. Let´s just say that Klinsmann would not have a problem with that contract decision

Neuqua · 06-23-2014, 02:06 PM

Yep, that's what the Bulls are dealing with Mirotic now. If he were to be paid by rookie scale he'd be here as a no brainer. But now it looks like he's looking for a contract close to $10million/year.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Yep, that's what the Bulls are dealing with Mirotic now. If he were to be paid by rookie scale he'd be here as a no brainer. But now it looks like he's looking for a contract close to $10million/year.

I was looking for an example but seemed to only find 2nd rounders (who, to my knowledge are eligible for bigger contracts immediately)

stevew · 06-23-2014, 02:21 PM

Tiago splitter was this way. Made about 10-12 million on his first 3 year contract and was an unrestricted FA afterwards.

nol · 06-23-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yeah, I don't see that one happening. Klay's performance + youth makes him more valuable than the #7 by a long shot.

This trade would only be done to improve the Warriors' offer for Love e.g. Minnesota knows Thompson would have little interest in signing there and is instead looking for an offer along the lines of Lee, Barnes and the #7 pick.

The deal has little upside for the Lakers. They've been interested in Love for so long that they wouldn't just facilitate his trade to a division rival like that; they want him to stay until free agency so they can make their run at him. Even if you look at if from the perspective of "Kobe's calling all the shots and he wants veteran help instead of a rookie," the Lakers would be trying to get someone at any other position for the pick.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Tiago splitter was this way. Made about 10-12 million on his first 3 year contract and was an unrestricted FA afterwards.

I blame the world cup for my lapses

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

This trade would only be done to improve the Warriors' offer for Love e.g. Minnesota knows Thompson would have little interest in signing there and is instead looking for an offer along the lines of Lee, Barnes and the #7 pick.

The deal has little upside for the Lakers. They've been interested in Love for so long that they wouldn't just facilitate his trade to a division rival like that; they want him to stay until free agency so they can make their run at him. Even if you look at if from the perspective of "Kobe's calling all the shots and he wants veteran help instead of a rookie," the Lakers would be trying to get someone at any other position for the pick.

Thompson would be a RFA. He wouldn't be in a position to dictate where he plays. If the Wolves want him, he'll be playing in Minnesota for years to come.

nol · 06-23-2014, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Thompson would be a RFA. He wouldn't be in a position to dictate where he plays. If the Wolves want him, he'll be playing in Minnesota for years to come.

Yeah, just like how Kevin Love is under contract for another year in Minnesota

Arles · 06-23-2014, 03:04 PM

Love is unrestricted next year. If Klay wants to get paid, he has to resign with Minny for 3+ years.

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 03:09 PM

Love is unrestricted, Klay will not be. As long as the Wolves are willing to match, he'll be playing for the Wolves.

nol · 06-23-2014, 03:18 PM

And why is having the right to match a big offer for a player who wouldn't be pumped to be playing for you in the first place supposed to be a huge get? If the Timberwolves have some magic "We have your contract so you have to play your best and do whatever we say" card they can play, they might as well use it to make Love stay this season because they'd have a decent chance of being successful running it back with the same team as long as there's enough in-house improvement from their other players.

murrayyyyy · 06-23-2014, 03:22 PM

I don't know how the hell anyone can take a chance on Embiid.

76ers are in a horrible spot. It looked like they would have Parker or Wigging fall in their lap and now their only position is trying to deal the 3rd pick. I'd almost deal down to someone looking for Embiid or Exum. Maybe see if Phoenix will move their 3-1sts (which right now are slotted as McDermott (PF), Jusuf Nurkic (c) and Jordan Adams (SG)). Can the Suns keep all their picks this year? Thought they had 11 players under contract right now(I know a ton are on the cheap).

Subby · 06-23-2014, 03:24 PM

I would be salivating at the prospect of Embiid falling to me. Unless you are under intense pressure to win now, it seems like you are getting killer value in that scenario.

murrayyyyy · 06-23-2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

I would be salivating at the prospect of Embiid falling to me. Unless you are under intense pressure to win now, it seems like you are getting killer value in that scenario.

Bad foot and bad back are bad things for a big man. I know that anyone can be injured but I don't know of a lot of big men who come back from foot injuries who have had back surgery.

Blackadar · 06-23-2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Bad foot and bad back are bad things for a big man. I know that anyone can be injured but I don't know of a lot of big men who come back from foot injuries who have had back surgery.

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

And why is having the right to match a big offer for a player who wouldn't be pumped to be playing for you in the first place supposed to be a huge get? If the Timberwolves have some magic "We have your contract so you have to play your best and do whatever we say" card they can play, they might as well use it to make Love stay this season because they'd have a decent chance of being successful running it back with the same team as long as there's enough in-house improvement from their other players.

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

I don't think keeping Love for this season is a bad move for the Timberwolves if these are the best deals on the table. They were unlucky last year and should be in the playoffs this season barring injuries.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 03:50 PM

Embiid did not have back surgery.

There just is no sample size to make any conclusion here. Even naming Yao and Ilgauskas or Lopez does nott make a trend, it is just 3 prominent examples.
Just going by "injured players" you do get players and big men coming back from bad injuries, Sullinger or Blake Griffin recently. Drummond also had a stress fracture on his back.

you can pick up a serviceable rotation player at any time, so unless you are in a position to win now, of course you will still highly consider drafting a guy like Embiid. I know the injuries are a big "if", but once you have teams expecting to stay bad for a few years or teams that can attract free agents, there´s worse things than "wasting" a pick on him.

interesting article/statistical analysis showing it is a serious risk but not a foregone conclusion that it can not work: http://hoopshabit.com/2014/06/23/ser...s-nba-players/

DaddyTorgo · 06-23-2014, 03:54 PM

I'm beyond fine with moving Rondo.

He's fun to watch, but he's not going to want to stick around for a rebuild and he's really only worth a max contract if you surround him with good players who he can make better. If you're rebuilding you're not at that point yet presumably.

murrayyyyy · 06-23-2014, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Embiid did not have back surgery.

Correct, back injury not surgery. Sorry about that. But he did have a stress fracture which would seem like a red flag to me in his back.

Logan · 06-23-2014, 03:56 PM

In hindsight, taking a guy with the issues Greg Oden had over someone like Kevin Durant made little sense. I can understand passing on Embiid for the high potential of Wiggins/Parker, but over someone like Marcus Smart, not so sure.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

I don't think keeping Love for this season is a bad move for the Timberwolves if these are the best deals on the table. They were unlucky last year and should be in the playoffs this season barring injuries.

Timberwolves might be compareable to the Blazers. Both had a promising season marred by an incredibly terrible bench. (Rubio for example had a +- of + 13). Would be nice if the Wolves could improve that to "bad" at least.

whomario · 06-23-2014, 04:02 PM

yeah, as said it is of course an issue. But by all reports, his back was deemed fine though, wasn´t it ? As far as i know, minor stress fractures on the back really aren´t a big deal anymore unless there is structural problems. (and didn´t he get injured on a bad fall ?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

In hindsight, taking a guy with the issues Greg Oden had over someone like Kevin Durant made little sense. I can understand passing on Embiid for the high potential of Wiggins/Parker, but over someone like Marcus Smart, not so sure.

yeah, that´s the key here to me as well. And the Sixers for example would absolutely take him at 10 as well. Might even consider him at 3 if they think whoever is there at 10 is in their Top3/5 on their board.

Ronnie Dobbs3 · 06-23-2014, 04:03 PM

I can't see Embiid lasting past 6 and I doubt he gets there.

nol · 06-23-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

Try telling that to the Bobcats when they had Boris Diaw or the Mavericks when they had Lamar Odom or any other of the litany of instances where spending money on someone who doesn't have any other extrinsic motivation to play for your team in your city was a colossal waste.

Seriously name one successful team that was built on the principle of "if we offer more money he has to play for us and that's all that matters."

nol · 06-23-2014, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Timberwolves might be compareable to the Blazers. Both had a promising season marred by an incredibly terrible bench. (Rubio for example had a +- of + 13). Would be nice if the Wolves could improve that to "bad" at least.

The difference is that the T-Wolves are closer to a point of no return (if not already there) where Love has burned his bridges and is definitely not coming back. Any complaining on Aldridge's part last year was just some generic "we need to get some help around me" stuff. There's been plenty more back-and-forth in the media between Love and Wolves management.

In FBPB3 world, of course you hold on to everyone and hope that some slightly better luck combined with the natural improvement from your younger players is good enough to result in a playoff run that makes Love more interested in re-signing (and you'd also hire a few assistant coaches with an A+ rating in shooting for Rubio), but in the real world, they're already at the "irreconcilable differences" stage.

cartman · 06-23-2014, 04:58 PM

Timmae exercised his option and will be back for an 18th season.

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.

Good thing (for Embiid!) Portland doesn't have a top 5 pick.

I'm with RD on this - Parker/Wiggins are back to 1-2, but a shot at Embiid is still worth more than a Noah Vonleh or Marcus Smart. If he's there at 6, no way the Celtics pass on him, but he's also not going to be there at 6.

BillJasper · 06-23-2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.

+1

Matthean · 06-23-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm with RD on this - Parker/Wiggins are back to 1-2, but a shot at Embiid is still worth more than a Noah Vonleh or Marcus Smart. If he's there at 6, no way the Celtics pass on him, but he's also not going to be there at 6.

If rumblings are too be true, Parker half-assed his workout with the Cavs implying he didn't want to go there but to the Bucks instead as where Wiggins was all in and stated he wants to go to Cleveland. Cavs seem to be leaning towards Parker since he's more NBA ready.

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

If rumblings are too be true, Parker half-assed his workout with the Cavs implying he didn't want to go there but to the Bucks instead as where Wiggins was all in and stated he wants to go to Cleveland. Cavs seem to be leaning towards Parker since he's more NBA ready.

I've seen that too, but not sure I understand why Parker would want to go to Milwaukee over Cleveland. Utah I could at least get due to the Mormon thing, but not sure what Milwaukee offers that Cleveland doesn't.

Neuqua · 06-23-2014, 06:14 PM

Not sure if it's a factor but Milwaukee is practically Chicago-north in most sports outside football. Being from Chicago, he may want to be 90 miles away from home.

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

Try telling that to the Bobcats when they had Boris Diaw or the Mavericks when they had Lamar Odom or any other of the litany of instances where spending money on someone who doesn't have any other extrinsic motivation to play for your team in your city was a colossal waste.

Seriously name one successful team that was built on the principle of "if we offer more money he has to play for us and that's all that matters."

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The NBA Draft does not allow players to pick what team they want to play for. They have to play for the team that chose them for a number of years. Players routinely take financial security to play less desirable locations. Everyone doesn't get to play for the max in Los Angeles or New York.

As for Odom and Diaw, both players cost themselves tens of millions of dollars. I also think those players are the extreme exceptions rather than the rule. I doubt Klay Thompson is going to put on 50 pounds and cost himself $50-$100 million in the future because he doesn't like the weather in Minnesota.

nol · 06-23-2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I've seen that too, but not sure I understand why Parker would want to go to Milwaukee over Cleveland. Utah I could at least get due to the Mormon thing, but not sure what Milwaukee offers that Cleveland doesn't.

All I can think of is closer to home and more of a chance at being the go-to offensive guy. I suppose in the one-and-done era there isn't necessarily as much of a desire to team up with another Duke player in Irving.

Stuff like this makes me wish rookies just came in as free agents. You could argue that a bad organization would never be able to sign a difference maker that way, but all the skipping/tanking workouts and withholding medical information means that some teams are at a disadvantage when it comes to optimally improving themselves through the draft.

Players and agents would be less inclined to do stuff like that if a team were willing and able to outbid everyone else by a larger amount than whatever the difference in salary scale between the first and second pick is. And a team would be free to decide if they want to take a bigger risk on a top player or try to sign 2-3 lower-tier rookies instead.

nol · 06-23-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The NBA Draft does not allow players to pick what team they want to play for.

Exactly, which is why Minnesota would rather get the #7 pick in the draft in a package with Barnes and Lee than a player who, in the absolute best-case scenario where he's totally fine with going from being one of the Splash Brothers in Golden State to playing for a non-playoff team in Minnesota, takes no time at all to adjust to playing with new teammates, and makes a big offensive leap as he's guarded by the other team's best perimeter defender for the first time in his career, will be prohibitively expensive next season.

Golden State's had the guy for three years and is obviously divided on the prospect of paying him big money in the future, so it would be pretty foolish of Minnesota to expect to figure it out after one season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As for Odom and Diaw, both players cost themselves tens of millions of dollars. I also think those players are the extreme exceptions rather than the rule.

Are you joking? There are enough bad contracts to do articles like this every single year: The Worst Contracts in the NBA « Then again, you thought Josh Smith to the Pistons was a great signing.

Scarecrow · 06-23-2014, 07:25 PM

I'm not basing Embiid's bust potential based on his injuries and inexperience, but the fact that KU is not exactly the school that creates star NBAers.

NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Kansas | Basketball-Reference.com

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

Exactly, which is why Minnesota would rather get the #7 pick in the draft in a package with Barnes and Lee than a player who, in the absolute best-case scenario where he's totally fine with going from being one of the Splash Brothers in Golden State to playing for a non-playoff team in Minnesota, takes no time at all to adjust to playing with new teammates, and makes a big offensive leap as he's guarded by the other team's best perimeter defender for the first time in his career, will be prohibitively expensive next season.

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal. Have you even been following this story?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

Are you joking? There are enough bad contracts to do articles like this every single year The Worst Contracts in the NBA « Then again, you thought Josh Smith to the Pistons was a great signing.

Diaw went from making $9 million a year to $4 million a year. Odom went from making $8 million a year to nothing.

Your arguing that a player purposely playing bad will make them richer than purposely playing their best.

Vince, Pt. II · 06-23-2014, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal...

It became public last week that the Warriors were willing to include Thompson in the deal. They released something late last week that Kerr wasn't supporting the move, but that's likely just PR to keep Klay happy in case the trade doesn't work out. Kerr has publicly mentioned how much he would like to have a true stretch 4 to work in his offensive system, and David Lee isn't really that guy. Kevin Love is.

RainMaker · 06-23-2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

It became public last week that the Warriors were willing to include Thompson in the deal. They released something late last week that Kerr wasn't supporting the move, but that's likely just PR to keep Klay happy in case the trade doesn't work out. Kerr has publicly mentioned how much he would like to have a true stretch 4 to work in his offensive system, and David Lee isn't really that guy. Kevin Love is.

I don't know what their motivations are for leaks but there is zero chance Kevin Love is traded without Klay Thompson being a part of it.

If it's picks the Warriors want, Boston and Chicago have more to offer.

nol · 06-23-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal. Have you even been following this story?

My initial point (that completely went over your head) was that the Lakers were obviously not reaching out independently to the Warriors to try to get Thompson for the seventh pick. Use your head - when a player's mentioned as possibly being traded to two separate teams, and neither deal makes perfect sense for the teams that would be acquiring him, you can be confident that his own team is open to parting with him. If you want to talk about not following the story, here's this: http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers...620-story.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by The first two freaking paragraphs

The Lakers have been in discussions to acquire Golden State Warriors guard Klay Thompson for the seventh pick in next week’s draft, The Times has learned.

The deal would be part of a larger three-way trade that sends Minnesota All-Star power forward Kevin Love to the Warriors. The Lakers are interested but the deal has been put on hold because of a difference in opinion within the Warriors’ organization whether or not to keep Thompson while trying to obtain Love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Your arguing that a player purposely playing bad will make them richer than purposely playing their best.

No, I'm arguing that the players who do that really don't cost themselves that much money over the course of their careers; they just spend a few seasons being grossly overpaid for their performance and then sign below market value on their next contract - it averages out. It's more harmful to a team that wastes cap room on them.

When it comes to losing money, wait and see what Diaw is offered and eventually signs for. If he gets $8-9 million per season he didn't cost himself "tens of millions of dollars," he got to go from a crappy team to one that won a championship and allowed him to best showcase his skills for this coming contract at the cost of playing 2 seasons slightly below his market value. Similarly, Klay Thompson could get traded to Minnesota, pout his way through the entire season, and there will still be a team that comes through with a $10+ million/year offer for him in restricted free agency that Minnesota would have to match.

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

I'm not basing Embiid's bust potential based on his injuries and inexperience, but the fact that KU is not exactly the school that creates star NBAers.

NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Kansas | Basketball-Reference.com

Clyde Lovellette, Jojo White, Danny Manning, Paul Pierce and that Wilt Chamberlain guy weren't bad... and guys who went to college 50 years ago are just as relevant as anything that happened even 3 years ago. By this impeccable logic, what stars has Duke produced recently? Do they get credit for Kyrie who played like 10 games, do we count JJ Redick and Gerald Henderson as stars, or do we go back to Grant Hill? What about Indiana - do Oladipo or Gordon qualify, or do you have to go back to Isaiah Thomas? Who did Kentucky have for the 15 years before Calipari got there - Rajon Rondo and Tayshaun Prince? Texas had 70 years with Chris Mihm as their best alum before producing Lamarcus Aldrige and Kevin Durant in back to back years - then went back to "producing" the Avery Bradley's and Tristan Thompson's of the world at best.

06-23-2014, 02:01 PM	#161
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	The caveat here: If he stays for the full 3 years, he is not bound by the rookie scale at all. Meaning: While no other NBA team can sign him, whichever team drafts him still has to compete with European teams to sign him in 2017. rumour posted by a san antonio journalist about Duncan declining his 10 mio player option and instead signing a new 2 year contract, presumably allowing the Spurs more cap room this summer. If true, the gift that keeps on giving. Let´s just say that Klinsmann would not have a problem with that contract decision __________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 06-23-2014 at 02:09 PM.

06-23-2014, 02:06 PM	#162
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Yep, that's what the Bulls are dealing with Mirotic now. If he were to be paid by rookie scale he'd be here as a no brainer. But now it looks like he's looking for a contract close to $10million/year. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

06-23-2014, 03:04 PM	#169
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Love is unrestricted next year. If Klay wants to get paid, he has to resign with Minny for 3+ years. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

06-23-2014, 03:18 PM	#171
nol Banned Join Date: Oct 2003	And why is having the right to match a big offer for a player who wouldn't be pumped to be playing for you in the first place supposed to be a huge get? If the Timberwolves have some magic "We have your contract so you have to play your best and do whatever we say" card they can play, they might as well use it to make Love stay this season because they'd have a decent chance of being successful running it back with the same team as long as there's enough in-house improvement from their other players. Last edited by nol : 06-23-2014 at 03:36 PM.

06-23-2014, 03:24 PM	#173
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	I would be salivating at the prospect of Embiid falling to me. Unless you are under intense pressure to win now, it seems like you are getting killer value in that scenario. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com Last edited by Subby : 06-23-2014 at 03:25 PM.

06-23-2014, 11:29 AM	#156
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Yeah, the Warriors are running out of room to pay people. They'd rather not go the Miami route of having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill the bench. Most of the talk includes the Lakers as the third team in the mix, but I don't know how you get a nice piece from someone WITHOUT giving them Klay Thompson, and the #7 is not a nice enough piece.

06-23-2014, 11:30 AM	#157
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Hey, if I absolutely have to, I'd give Jarrett Jack back to the Warriors.

06-23-2014, 02:21 PM	#164
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Tiago splitter was this way. Made about 10-12 million on his first 3 year contract and was an unrestricted FA afterwards.

06-23-2014, 03:09 PM	#170
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Love is unrestricted, Klay will not be. As long as the Wolves are willing to match, he'll be playing for the Wolves.

06-23-2014, 03:22 PM	#172
murrayyyyy College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Las Vegas	I don't know how the hell anyone can take a chance on Embiid. 76ers are in a horrible spot. It looked like they would have Parker or Wigging fall in their lap and now their only position is trying to deal the 3rd pick. I'd almost deal down to someone looking for Embiid or Exum. Maybe see if Phoenix will move their 3-1sts (which right now are slotted as McDermott (PF), Jusuf Nurkic (c) and Jordan Adams (SG)). Can the Suns keep all their picks this year? Thought they had 11 players under contract right now(I know a ton are on the cheap).

06-23-2014, 03:50 PM	#177
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Embiid did not have back surgery. There just is no sample size to make any conclusion here. Even naming Yao and Ilgauskas or Lopez does nott make a trend, it is just 3 prominent examples. Just going by "injured players" you do get players and big men coming back from bad injuries, Sullinger or Blake Griffin recently. Drummond also had a stress fracture on his back. you can pick up a serviceable rotation player at any time, so unless you are in a position to win now, of course you will still highly consider drafting a guy like Embiid. I know the injuries are a big "if", but once you have teams expecting to stay bad for a few years or teams that can attract free agents, there´s worse things than "wasting" a pick on him. interesting article/statistical analysis showing it is a serious risk but not a foregone conclusion that it can not work: http://hoopshabit.com/2014/06/23/ser...s-nba-players/ __________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 06-23-2014 at 03:56 PM.

06-23-2014, 03:54 PM	#178
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	I'm beyond fine with moving Rondo. He's fun to watch, but he's not going to want to stick around for a rebuild and he's really only worth a max contract if you surround him with good players who he can make better. If you're rebuilding you're not at that point yet presumably.

06-23-2014, 03:56 PM	#180
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	In hindsight, taking a guy with the issues Greg Oden had over someone like Kevin Durant made little sense. I can understand passing on Embiid for the high potential of Wiggins/Parker, but over someone like Marcus Smart, not so sure.

06-23-2014, 04:03 PM	#183
Ronnie Dobbs3 High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2013	I can't see Embiid lasting past 6 and I doubt he gets there.

06-23-2014, 04:58 PM	#186
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Timmae exercised his option and will be back for an 18th season. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-23-2014, 06:14 PM	#191
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Not sure if it's a factor but Milwaukee is practically Chicago-north in most sports outside football. Being from Chicago, he may want to be 90 miles away from home. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

06-23-2014, 07:25 PM	#195
Scarecrow College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Flatlands of America	I'm not basing Embiid's bust potential based on his injuries and inexperience, but the fact that KU is not exactly the school that creates star NBAers. NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Kansas \| Basketball-Reference.com __________________ Post Count: Eleventy Billion - so deal with it!

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