WW LXXXV -- Life Contingencies II (GAME OVER)

[hoopsguy]

Technically, RendeR played last game as a mime more than "playing nice". I still think he is worthy of discussion.

Ten person game with two roled players, one of who has already exercised his option. No ability to protect the seer, and the seer knows who the other guy is. Nope, I do not all that much reward with him coming forward today without a wolf.

[Danny]

I'm off to work, I will hopefully have a 60-90 minute window around 3pm pacific time to come participate.

[hoopsguy]

Oops - writing is hard. My last post should have said, "Nope, I do not see all that much reward for him coming forwards today without a wolf". Hate when I re-type something a couple of different ways and end up with something that sounds vaguely "English-as-a-second-language"-esque.

Oh, and please do not take the bold here on "see" to suggest that I'm the seer. This is not a hint at that role in any way, shape, or form.

[hoopsguy]

Weak trust list:
1. Me (duh)
2. Lathum (duke)
3. Path - light trust

People I would like the seer to scan:
1. Chief Rum (schedule driven)
2. Danny (want to know if I can trust his input)
3. Alan T (same as Danny, but I think he'll give me more posts to read so I'm not as worried about it)

People I'm cool with voting out today
1. RendeR - my original vote from yesterday
2a. PackerFanatic
2b. TheJackal - whichever one of these guys posts less has a good shot of getting my vote
4. Hannibal Lecter - distant 4th behind the other three

[path12]

Hi again.

I want to be clear on one thing -- my reaction last night was not a ploy or anything like that, that's not how I play. I appreciate the support and think that since it just doesn't seem to be me should be something we talk about, but that's for another thread/PM's. Back to the game.

Bummer roll for Barkeep there, though I am wondering why Lathum changed his mind or bluffed about using the duke -- I assume it was not wanting to waste it since I ended up with the biggest kill % in the vote.

Need to finish catching up now. Back later.

[Lathum]

Without much to go on I think the way to go today is either Hannibal Lechter or Path.

Hannibal is the only person we know who voted on a known villager, was it to protect Path?

I think thats where if nothing else we get the most info from

[Alan T]

I am not as easy forgiving of Render. I wonder if part of his out of no where attack yesterday that had all kinds of logic holes in it was a desire to try to shake things up some from the previous game when he was a wolf. The biggest reason to do so would be because of a role this game. I'll try to restrain myself a bit though and not just vote for him today because of his insults.

I still think Path's play yesterday was the most anti-villager play and that says alot this early in the game to me. I will assume however that with such a play, he had to be a likely seer target and I am assuming if he was a wolf, the seer would feel it worthwhile enough to out himself to reveal path. So I'll back off on that and assume the seer made the best choice to scan him last night and without any further pushing of a Path vote that means to me he is possibly good and just misguided.

That leaves Hannibal Lecter.. for some reason, in my memory he seemed to keep almost encouraging the bodyguard to protect Lathum yesterday as if Jeheinz had never revealed. When it was pointed out several times, he simply said he didn't notice and disappeared.

Out of the various posts on day 1, the only two clear agendas I could find was Lathum's (who we know to be a good guy agenda because of his role), and Hannibal Lecter (which I don't know what his agenda was, but it did not come across as good to me.) I think I am going back through Dr. Lecter's posts to see if anything jumps out at me or makes me feel better about him. Right now, that is where I am leaning with my vote today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

though I am wondering why Lathum changed his mind or bluffed about using the duke -- I assume it was not wanting to waste it since I ended up with the biggest kill % in the vote.

I noticed someone else said this last night at some point when I was catching up on my thread just now. The answer to this is pretty clear. With the number of votes on you yesterday, there was a better chance of you getting lynched without him duking you then if he had used his duke. You had I think 5 votes on you which would have been 5/12 or roughly 42% I believe. His duking ability at most can only target you with 40% chance of death.

It makes absolutely no use for him to duke you if he wanted you dead.. Just after I made a comment that I would try to feel better about you and assume the seer scanned you, you start making comments as if trying to make people feel ill towards Lathum again, just like day 1... erf

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It makes absolutely no use for him to duke you if he wanted you dead.. Just after I made a comment that I would try to feel better about you and assume the seer scanned you, you start making comments as if trying to make people feel ill towards Lathum again, just like day 1... erf

You quoted the part where I say I assume it's because I had the biggest % of dying from the lynch and then still say I'm trying to point the finger at Lathum again? Really?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

You quoted the part where I say I assume it's because I had the biggest % of dying from the lynch and then still say I'm trying to point the finger at Lathum again? Really?

Then why wonder why Lathum "bluffed"? Your word choice there seemed to be pretty poor if it was not intentional. It is just as obvious today why Lathum played the way he did as it was yesterday. I don't know if you either have some axe to grind with him or have some other motive. I'm standing pat though with my initial assumption that the #1 person for the seer to have scanned last night was you.. and you must just be really misguided right now being this antagonistic to the duke.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, FWIW the Seer only has a 40% chance of scanning a given player. So I do not think it is a given that any particular player was scanned as a reason for not voting them today. If you do want to factor this into play, it should only be a fractional measure of trust compared to other rulesets.

I still have Path on a little higher trust line today than most of the others, without factoring the idea of him being scanned into the mix.

[Lathum]

Alan- With the BG gone I'm not so sure the seer would come out if they found a wolf

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Then why wonder why Lathum "bluffed"? Your word choice there seemed to be pretty poor if it was not intentional. It is just as obvious today why Lathum played the way he did as it was yesterday. I don't know if you either have some axe to grind with him or have some other motive. I'm standing pat though with my initial assumption that the #1 person for the seer to have scanned last night was you.. and you must just be really misguided right now being this antagonistic to the duke.

I don't see where I'm being antagonistic to the duke. It seems more to me that you're trying to make an association where there is none.

I asked myself a question as I read the results and then answered my own question by mentioning the vote percentage on me.

The fact is, Lathum did bluff because he said he was duking me and then did not. It's not pointing a finger at him to say that -- it is stating a fact. I've said more than once that I believe he is the duke. How is that antagonistic? I'm not voting him today -- is that a sign I'm out to get him also?

You're saying I'm "misguided" and suggesting I have an axe to grind with Lathum. You could be absolutely right that I'm misguided, I make mistakes in WW all the time as we all do. You couldn't be more wrong to suggest I have any other issue with Lathum. My only issue here is trying to find wolves, and just because I questioned Lathum yesterday does not mean I'm questioning him today.

As far as I'm concerned, you're trying to fan some flames where none exist. I don't know your reasons for that, but it is not making me feel any better about you and your motives.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, FWIW the Seer only has a 40% chance of scanning a given player. So I do not think it is a given that any particular player was scanned as a reason for not voting them today. If you do want to factor this into play, it should only be a fractional measure of trust compared to other rulesets.

I still have Path on a little higher trust line today than most of the others, without factoring the idea of him being scanned into the mix.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Alan- With the BG gone I'm not so sure the seer would come out if they found a wolf

Fair enough. I'm re-talking myself into voting for Path again today. I think we learn the most votewise about other people with his lynch anyways. If not him, I'm still considering Hannibal Lecter. I am pretty sure I will vote for one of those two today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't see where I'm being antagonistic to the duke. It seems more to me that you're trying to make an association where there is none.

I asked myself a question as I read the results and then answered my own question by mentioning the vote percentage on me.

The fact is, Lathum did bluff because he said he was duking me and then did not. It's not pointing a finger at him to say that -- it is stating a fact. I've said more than once that I believe he is the duke. How is that antagonistic? I'm not voting him today -- is that a sign I'm out to get him also?

You're saying I'm "misguided" and suggesting I have an axe to grind with Lathum. You could be absolutely right that I'm misguided, I make mistakes in WW all the time as we all do. You couldn't be more wrong to suggest I have any other issue with Lathum. My only issue here is trying to find wolves, and just because I questioned Lathum yesterday does not mean I'm questioning him today.

As far as I'm concerned, you're trying to fan some flames where none exist. I don't know your reasons for that, but it is not making me feel any better about you and your motives.

You only changed your tune yesterday when I called you out for it. You seemed to be passive-aggressively trying the same thing today is all, so I called you on it again. Right now I am not that worried about how you feel about me as most of your moves thus far in my mind have been fairly anti-villager.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

I

The fact is, Lathum did bluff because he said he was duking me and then did not. It's not pointing a finger at him to say that -- it is stating a fact. I've said more than once that I believe he is the duke. How is that antagonistic? I'm not voting him today -- is that a sign I'm out to get him also?

Not true, even with me duking you it is not a guarentee of a lynch. BK just got very unlucky with random.org.

[RendeR]

VOTE ALAN T

My reasons are pretty much the same, he's rehashing arguements that sound great but don't hold a lot of substance. If you thought I was insulting yesterday I'll apologize, it was all tongue in cheek (hence the use of a smiley as I posted things).

Alan, every time I read your posts instead of getting "he's really digging through things and the logic makes real sense" I actually get "This is a total BS job and he's double talking himself around in circles"

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe its my headache giving me a false read on you, I duno, all I do know is you're making me so uncomfortable that I want to find out where you stand and the easiest way to do so is lynch you.

AS for me being a wolf, I wish I was, I think it would have rocked to be a wolf twice in a row in the exact same game, especially after surviving the last one. but it didn't happen and I think its obvious why, after winning the last game I'm a pretty obvious target this time. Add to that the total random.org-ness of the game and it would be a long shot for me to get selected twice.

[PackerFanatic]

So much randomness, how can we get anything done...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

VOTE ALAN T

My reasons are pretty much the same, he's rehashing arguements that sound great but don't hold a lot of substance. If you thought I was insulting yesterday I'll apologize, it was all tongue in cheek (hence the use of a smiley as I posted things).

Alan, every time I read your posts instead of getting "he's really digging through things and the logic makes real sense" I actually get "This is a total BS job and he's double talking himself around in circles"

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe its my headache giving me a false read on you, I duno, all I do know is you're making me so uncomfortable that I want to find out where you stand and the easiest way to do so is lynch you.

AS for me being a wolf, I wish I was, I think it would have rocked to be a wolf twice in a row in the exact same game, especially after surviving the last one. but it didn't happen and I think its obvious why, after winning the last game I'm a pretty obvious target this time. Add to that the total random.org-ness of the game and it would be a long shot for me to get selected twice.

Please explain to me how any of this is BS or talking in circles?

- A wolf is not going to fake reveal right at the start as the duke
- I feel the Duke actually makes a smarter choice not duking on day 1 and instead waiting to be more sure of their information, since usually a day 1 duking more often then not ends up killing a good guy, and leaves us with no voting information for day 2.
- Path's vote on Lathum after Lathum had claimed to be the duke was just really out of place and unnecessary, and most of his reasons for it were not very accurate based on what I said above in my previous two points.
- The Duke does not have to have a vote on him in order for him to be able to use his ability (and that is not even a very common rule in any other WW game)
- Lathum was not the only person to reveal yesterday and the bodyguard shouldn't only focus on protecting him such as Hannibal Lecter had suggested
- The Duke in this game only has a 40% chance of killing his intended target, so once the person he wanted to die ended up with greater than 40% of the vote (such as Path yesterday), it makes absolutely no sense for him to use his role there as it actually decreases the chance of the lynch he wants to occur.


Please tell me which of those are BS, and I will happily discuss it with you. Otherwise I'm going to assume you are the one spouting off BS and words that just sound good.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Please explain to me how any of this is BS or talking in circles?

- A wolf is not going to fake reveal right at the start as the duke
- I feel the Duke actually makes a smarter choice not duking on day 1 and instead waiting to be more sure of their information, since usually a day 1 duking more often then not ends up killing a good guy, and leaves us with no voting information for day 2.
- Path's vote on Lathum after Lathum had claimed to be the duke was just really out of place and unnecessary, and most of his reasons for it were not very accurate based on what I said above in my previous two points.
- The Duke does not have to have a vote on him in order for him to be able to use his ability (and that is not even a very common rule in any other WW game)
- Lathum was not the only person to reveal yesterday and the bodyguard shouldn't only focus on protecting him such as Hannibal Lecter had suggested
- The Duke in this game only has a 40% chance of killing his intended target, so once the person he wanted to die ended up with greater than 40% of the vote (such as Path yesterday), it makes absolutely no sense for him to use his role there as it actually decreases the chance of the lynch he wants to occur.


Please tell me which of those are BS, and I will happily discuss it with you. Otherwise I'm going to assume you are the one spouting off BS and words that just sound good.

Sorry, I forgot, I also had the points yesterday which gave the percentages of successfully getting a wolf on day 1 based on full reveal or no full reveal as well as 3 wolves vs 4 wolves for people to be able to use and make their decision whether or not to do the full reveal. I'm pretty sure none of that was BS.. but if it was, Render feel free to show the math where I was wrong on any of it.

[Hannibal Lecter]

I am very very confused!

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not true, even with me duking you it is not a guarentee of a lynch. BK just got very unlucky with random.org.

See, I keep forgetting that nobody gets a 100% chance of doing anything. I had assumed you changed your mind on the duking.

So what must have happened is that you failed your duke roll and then Barkeep got hit with the 10% lynch chance.

So if you tried to use it yesterday and failed, do you still have the ability to try it again?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You only changed your tune yesterday when I called you out for it. You seemed to be passive-aggressively trying the same thing today is all, so I called you on it again. Right now I am not that worried about how you feel about me as most of your moves thus far in my mind have been fairly anti-villager.

Well, obviously you've made up your mind about me and you have every right to do that. I continue to think that you're trying to muddy the waters for some particular purpose and since I don't know what that purpose might be you'll get my vote.

VOTE ALAN T

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, obviously you've made up your mind about me and you have every right to do that. I continue to think that you're trying to muddy the waters for some particular purpose and since I don't know what that purpose might be you'll get my vote.

VOTE ALAN T

Actually, you are the one trying to muddy the waters right now. If anyone is being absolutely clear with what he has said and is saying this game it is me. I am not too terribly suprised to see you and Render ganging up on me though. I expect Hannibal Lecter to follow next as well.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Actually, you are the one trying to muddy the waters right now. If anyone is being absolutely clear with what he has said and is saying this game it is me. I am not too terribly suprised to see you and Render ganging up on me though. I expect Hannibal Lecter to follow next as well.

why is that?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

So if you tried to use it yesterday and failed, do you still have the ability to try it again?

why would I answer that and give the wolves more info?


VOTE PATH

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

why is that?

Because before I got back on the Path train of thought today, I had actually decided to go a different direction today earlier and was looking at your posts. During the part where I felt Path was using poor logic, I notice that you just flat out fed one piece of misinformation after another.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Also most Dukes would like having votes on them, since that is the only way they can use their power, also they are the only one who KNOWs they are good, so they have better odds than anyone else of pickin off a wolf.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Since there have been no other reveals (unless I missed one) I think its a safe bet that the Body guard will be guarding Lathum! so there is not a 40% chance he gets hit.

[The Jackal]

Two people that are giving me wolf vibes (only from the tone of their posts) are Danny (and not just because he voted for me) and Hannibal. I'll likely be putting my vote on one of them, as I can't really sort out the mess that's going on between you others right now.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Because before I got back on the Path train of thought today, I had actually decided to go a different direction today earlier and was looking at your posts. During the part where I felt Path was using poor logic, I notice that you just flat out fed one piece of misinformation after another.

I see no misinformation there, I recall (although I cant think of which game) someone basically saying vote for me, because he was the Duke, and could control the lynch.

and I said unless I missed one....... which I didn't! Heinze said he had a role and the wolves were celarly payign better attention than me. But he never revealed.

This is so weak, your trying to pile on me based on other peoples bad feelings.

You have accused me of giving missinformation when everything I said is 100% true. What doesnt make sense is why would you be grasping at straws at this point? It is illogical!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

I see no misinformation there, I recall (although I cant think of which game) someone basically saying vote for me, because he was the Duke, and could control the lynch.

and I said unless I missed one....... which I didn't! Heinze said he had a role and the wolves were celarly payign better attention than me. But he never revealed.

This is so weak, your trying to pile on me based on other peoples bad feelings.

You have accused me of giving missinformation when everything I said is 100% true. What doesnt make sense is why would you be grasping at straws at this point? It is illogical!

Lets actually review these for truth then...

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Also most Dukes would like having votes on them, since that is the only way they can use their power, also they are the only one who KNOWs they are good, so they have better odds than anyone else of pickin off a wolf.

FALSE - Dukes do not have to have votes on them for their vote to count, either in this game or in almost any other game. This seems like an attempt to "support" Path's vote yesterday on Lathum.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Since there have been no other reveals (unless I missed one) I think its a safe bet that the Body guard will be guarding Lathum! so there is not a 40% chance he gets hit.

FALSE - Jeheinz had revealed earlier in the day that he had a role. Since there are only three good guy roles listed, it would be assumed to be bodyguard or seer.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

everything I said is 100% true.

FALSE - obviously if the others are not true, then this can't be 100% true either

[Hannibal Lecter]

I can see no reason you make this play unless you are a wolf, it just makes no sense!

Vote Alan T

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Actually, you are the one trying to muddy the waters right now. If anyone is being absolutely clear with what he has said and is saying this game it is me. I am not too terribly suprised to see you and Render ganging up on me though. I expect Hannibal Lecter to follow next as well.

Well not that it wasn't really unexpected or anything.

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

I can see no reason you make this play unless you are a wolf, it just makes no sense!

Vote Alan T

[hoopsguy]

Votes, as of Post #182:

Alan T - RendeR (167), Path (173), Hannibal (181)
TheJackal - Danny (150)
Path - Lathum (176)


I'm not at all excited about the idea of an Alan T runaway here, so if there is nothing else to go on I'm going to narrow the gap.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

why would I answer that and give the wolves more info?


VOTE PATH

LOL. Now you're just being silly. You're acting like I outed you or something. Until you successfully duke you're on the wolves short list anyway no matter whether you've still got your power or not.

But whatever, I expect Alan will join you with that vote eventually, and I still don't really care much.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not at all excited about the idea of an Alan T runaway here, so if there is nothing else to go on I'm going to narrow the gap.

I'm not overly worried about it. The three of them appear to be stacking the odds to prevent the possibility of a wolf being lynched. Since my role is only that of a villager and I'm going to be traveling the rest of the week.. I don't mind them using me as bait since I wouldn't be around much after today anyhows.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I would be careful about the "got 'em all" theories. I think it is a lot more likely that there is no more than one wolf on you and that the wolves are spreading their votes out to avoid linkage.

I'm not sure how much sense that really makes in a small game - we've only got ten players - but by this point (big picture werewolf, not just this game) wolves almost reflexively want to avoid voting together if one of their own is not severely threatened.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

LOL. Now you're just being silly. You're acting like I outed you or something. Until you successfully duke you're on the wolves short list anyway no matter whether you've still got your power or not.

Mostly agree with this. I think the wolves would worry more about the "assumed villager" than the Duke power. If we are not going to lynch you then they have to get rid of you eventually, unless you end up doing their work for them (example - me, last game beginning with D2).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I would be careful about the "got 'em all" theories. I think it is a lot more likely that there is no more than one wolf on you and that the wolves are spreading their votes out to avoid linkage.

I'm not sure how much sense that really makes in a small game - we've only got ten players - but by this point (big picture werewolf, not just this game) wolves almost reflexively want to avoid voting together if one of their own is not severely threatened.

I think what you say is often true. I just am having a hard time in my head understanding their motivation and moves so far this game. I think I have given the opportunity to jump on me together by attacking their attempts to passive-aggressively affect a few things. Often times when that happens and the person is a villager, they will just end up coming out and saying they made a mistake and want to drop it. Instead these three are attacking me for my pointing out that they are incorrect or wrong. Just a bit off to me.. who knows maybe I am wrong though.

[The Jackal]

vote danny

I know he's got a limited time frame in which to access the game, but it still came off as one of those early spread votes to stray from what's going on with Alan.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lets actually review these for truth then...




FALSE - Dukes do not have to have votes on them for their vote to count, either in this game or in almost any other game. This seems like an attempt to "support" Path's vote yesterday on Lathum.



FALSE - Jeheinz had revealed earlier in the day that he had a role. Since there are only three good guy roles listed, it would be assumed to be bodyguard or seer.



FALSE - obviously if the others are not true, then this can't be 100% true either

Ok I know you're not this bone headed. Can you read his statements? He already said he was going of sometihng from another game, in other games there HAS been a rule regarding the duke having a vote on him to use his power and aonther in which he had to have the MOST votes to do so. His statement is NOT false. You're wrong and I know your not so naive as to not know of those other possibilities.

Your second point is also a reading isue, he even POSTED (unless I missed someone) in his ORIGINAL post. You're accusing him of lying when in fact his own statement that YOU quoted shows him allowing for something he may have missed.

He was 100% correct on what he said, based on what he knows he was right on, but you twisted his posts around and blatantly ignored his own admission that he may have missed something. Why, if you are not furry, are you acting this way? This is what I've been on about all along, you've been badgering people and mis-representing what was posted.

my vote stands and this post of yours makes me far more comfortable about it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok I know you're not this bone headed. Can you read his statements? He already said he was going of sometihng from another game, in other games there HAS been a rule regarding the duke having a vote on him to use his power and aonther in which he had to have the MOST votes to do so. His statement is NOT false. You're wrong and I know your not so naive as to not know of those other possibilities.

You know, I have been very careful to not say that this has ever been a rule in any WW game.. but I am pretty sure it is almost never a rule. I have actually sat and tried to think of one game where this actually was a rule that the duke had to have at least 1 vote on him to use his ability. It won't help me feel any better about you, but just for my own curiosity.. can you even name one game that this was the case? I mean, the only time I have ever seen a rule even close to this was in a few games where the duke could only use his ability to change the lynch if he was the lynch candidate. Since that is not what Lathum said here, and Lathum's play here suggests it not be the case that obviously is not this game's rule. It also isn't what Hannibal Lecter said either. So just for fun, show me even one game where the duke has to have a vote before he can use his ability.

Originally Posted by RendeR

Your second point is also a reading isue, he even POSTED (unless I missed someone) in his ORIGINAL post. You're accusing him of lying when in fact his own statement that YOU quoted shows him allowing for something he may have missed.

It is easy for you to just jump in on the last post of a conversation rather than actually look at the context of how it came about. My very first comment on the subject was that I didn't like how Hannibal Lecter seemed to be attempting to underhandedly steer the bodyguard to a certain action by the tone of his post. Only after that, did his reactions and his absolute certainty in his posts lead me to believe that it wasn't a mistake on his part, and that his everything he said is 100% true is obviously debunked.

Originally Posted by RendeR

He was 100% correct on what he said, based on what he knows he was right on, but you twisted his posts around and blatantly ignored his own admission that he may have missed something. Why, if you are not furry, are you acting this way? This is what I've been on about all along, you've been badgering people and mis-representing what was posted.

my vote stands and this post of yours makes me far more comfortable about it.

Just like he was not 100% correct, you obviously aren't either. Who is the one now trying to twist posts when you don't even pay attention to the context?

I also note for the record that you chose not to take me up on the challenge I left for you earlier. You convienantly chose not to respond to that because you were very very wrong there too.

Would you like a shovel to dig your hole any deeper?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You know, I have been very careful to not say that this has ever been a rule in any WW game.. but I am pretty sure it is almost never a rule. I have actually sat and tried to think of one game where this actually was a rule that the duke had to have at least 1 vote on him to use his ability. It won't help me feel any better about you, but just for my own curiosity.. can you even name one game that this was the case? I mean, the only time I have ever seen a rule even close to this was in a few games where the duke could only use his ability to change the lynch if he was the lynch candidate. Since that is not what Lathum said here, and Lathum's play here suggests it not be the case that obviously is not this game's rule. It also isn't what Hannibal Lecter said either. So just for fun, show me even one game where the duke has to have a vote before he can use his ability.



It is easy for you to just jump in on the last post of a conversation rather than actually look at the context of how it came about. My very first comment on the subject was that I didn't like how Hannibal Lecter seemed to be attempting to underhandedly steer the bodyguard to a certain action by the tone of his post. Only after that, did his reactions and his absolute certainty in his posts lead me to believe that it wasn't a mistake on his part, and that his everything he said is 100% true is obviously debunked.




Just like he was not 100% correct, you obviously aren't either. Who is the one now trying to twist posts when you don't even pay attention to the context?

I also note for the record that you chose not to take me up on the challenge I left for you earlier. You convienantly chose not to respond to that because you were very very wrong there too.

Would you like a shovel to dig your hole any deeper?

Keep talking us in circles Alan. I'm at work and busy but I'll see what I can find for you.

You didn't challenge me to anytihng ealrier, I said you did something and you basically said "I dod not!" and tried to for ce me to prove something. I'm not wasting my time playing playground games with you here. normally you're very easy to follow and dead on with your dialogs, this game you haven't been, you've been intentionally confusing and it would appear, intentionally misleading as to what other people are saying.

Just my opinion of course.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Keep talking us in circles Alan. I'm at work and busy but I'll see what I can find for you.

You didn't challenge me to anytihng ealrier, I said you did something and you basically said "I dod not!" and tried to for ce me to prove something. I'm not wasting my time playing playground games with you here. normally you're very easy to follow and dead on with your dialogs, this game you haven't been, you've been intentionally confusing and it would appear, intentionally misleading as to what other people are saying.

Just my opinion of course.

Uhh.. there haven't been that many posts this game for you to pretend to not see it.

Originally Posted by RendeR

Alan, every time I read your posts instead of getting "he's really digging through things and the logic makes real sense" I actually get "This is a total BS job and he's double talking himself around in circles"

Originally Posted by Alan T

Please explain to me how any of this is BS or talking in circles?

- A wolf is not going to fake reveal right at the start as the duke
- I feel the Duke actually makes a smarter choice not duking on day 1 and instead waiting to be more sure of their information, since usually a day 1 duking more often then not ends up killing a good guy, and leaves us with no voting information for day 2.
- Path's vote on Lathum after Lathum had claimed to be the duke was just really out of place and unnecessary, and most of his reasons for it were not very accurate based on what I said above in my previous two points.
- The Duke does not have to have a vote on him in order for him to be able to use his ability (and that is not even a very common rule in any other WW game)
- Lathum was not the only person to reveal yesterday and the bodyguard shouldn't only focus on protecting him such as Hannibal Lecter had suggested
- The Duke in this game only has a 40% chance of killing his intended target, so once the person he wanted to die ended up with greater than 40% of the vote (such as Path yesterday), it makes absolutely no sense for him to use his role there as it actually decreases the chance of the lynch he wants to occur.


Please tell me which of those are BS, and I will happily discuss it with you. Otherwise I'm going to assume you are the one spouting off BS and words that just sound good.

Instead of addressing any of it, you keep marching lock step with the same thing. And you say I am talking everyone in circles? I have been very clear on what every one of my points has been. Your attempts to cloud any of it won't cut it as long as I am around to make sure that no one falls for your attempts.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

vote danny

I know he's got a limited time frame in which to access the game, but it still came off as one of those early spread votes to stray from what's going on with Alan.

Fair enough, but I voted before any of this stuff happened as there wasn't a guarantee I would be able to be on (needed to get out of a stupid work meeting which I did) before the deadline. I'll be leaving for class in about an hour, but I am caught up now and am thinking what to do with my vote.

Keep in mind though, your vote is doing the same thing you just gave as the reason for voting for me

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Danny

Fair enough, but I voted before any of this stuff happened as there wasn't a guarantee I would be able to be on (needed to get out of a stupid work meeting which I did) before the deadline. I'll be leaving for class in about an hour, but I am caught up now and am thinking what to do with my vote.

Keep in mind though, your vote is doing the same thing you just gave as the reason for voting for me

Certainly true, but my reasoning comes from knowing that I'm not a wolf, you may not be either, but that's all. Plus, it wasn't -that- early.

[Danny]

I need to get going and will be back after deadline. I'm not thrilled with the idea of jumping on the AlanT bandwagon. I still am leaning towards PF or Jackal, and so I am going to stick with my vote from earlier.

[hoopsguy]

For whatever reason, RendeR seems to be unable to attract votes for two straight days. So I'll go after the person with votes who was on my list from earlier and hope that we fall into a good vote.

VOTE THE JACKAL

[Alan T]

Well, I'm going to disappear to watch House until deadline. Not much happening around here other than the crazy run on me. I would say for no reason, but I know full well their reason

Anyways, I would rather not be lynched.. I would rather lynch one of the wolves, but whatever happens happens I suppose. I think all of my arguments have been pretty straight forward and spelled out well. I'll let everyone else make the decision if they want to jump on this bandwagon to lynch me or not.

Vote Path

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not true, even with me duking you it is not a guarentee of a lynch. BK just got very unlucky with random.org.

Is that the case? I thought the duke move might be the one 100% chance we have.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, never mind. I just re-read the rules. Heck, Lathum could even get himself killed [i]by himself![/b] He has to include 10% on himself in every duke choice.

I think if I were the duke, I would consider holding off, too, in that case.