Starfield, BG3 & Bluey

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

As a player of the Elder Scrolls, Skyrim & Fallout Games (including FO76 which I'm a fan of) ... I just know I'm going to get that "itch" to play Starfield sooner or later.

My son (who started his PC gaming with me helping him on Sid Meir's Pirates) and I were chatting. He'll be buying it. Maybe I can tell the wife its a father-son bonding thing.

That is a good idea. I play company of heroes with my 16 year old but also play some Star Wars board games. Though once he gives off to college thae later would end.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

As a player of the Elder Scrolls, Skyrim & Fallout Games (including FO76 which I'm a fan of) ... I just know I'm going to get that "itch" to play Starfield sooner or later.

My son (who started his PC gaming with me helping him on Sid Meir's Pirates) and I were chatting. He'll be buying it. Maybe I can tell the wife its a father-son bonding thing.

That is a good idea. I play company of heroes with my 16 year old but also play some Star Wars board games. Though once he gives off to college thae later would end.

[Edward64]

If interested in buying PC Starfield, here's a deal for 17% off. See specifics in link.

Use coupon code FANATICAL17 to get 17% off Starfield ($69.99->$58.09) or Starfield Premium ($99.99->$82.99) pre-order.

bubble2

[Thomkal]

Not sure why it came up on my Twitter Feed, but here's what happened when one guy decided to explore a random moon in Starfield:


https://twitter.com/MrEvil37/status/1698434272955187304

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Not sure why it came up on my Twitter Feed, but here's what happened when one guy decided to explore a random moon in Starfield:


https://twitter.com/MrEvil37/status/1698434272955187304

What am I missing here?

[Galaril]

This is a very in depth comparison of the two games for those still thinking on which to get. For me I don’t have time for a lot of pc gaming so am cautious where to spend my time. The conclusion they are both very good. Starfield haze a lot of breadth and BG3 has a lot of depth. BG3 is all about party management and set up well for multiplayer co-op. Starfield is really single player solo only.

https://www.denofgeek.com/games/star...-best-for-you/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaril

BG3 is all about party management and set up well for multiplayer co-op. Starfield is really single player solo only.

That right there probably does as much as any singular thing to explain what I have interest in only the latter.

(It ain't the only reason, but when I read it suddenly my relative interest levels made a lot of sense for a concrete reason)

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That right there probably does as much as any singular thing to explain what I have interest in only the latter.

(It ain't the only reason, but when I read it suddenly my relative interest levels made a lot of sense for a concrete reason)

Same here. The more I read about BG3 it is a very very deep D&D tabletop themed game that is fairly complicated at least if you want to get the most out of it. The question with Starfield is it deep enough. I may just wait 6 months and see where it get patched to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well I just did a thing ... not sure what the ramifications are/will be (but since it was prompted by Starfield I'll put this here I guess)

I just converted my XBL Gold over to Gamepass Ultimate.

We'll now see what happens to
a) the shared library between me & the kid (currently the xbox in Athens is set to be _his_ home xbox, the one in Miami is set to be _my_ home xbox). Not losing access to existing games we can both currently play is more important than future game access honestly.

b) whether me having Ultimate -- due to the flipped home xbox settings -- is functionally the same as us both having Ultimate

c) longer term, whether this is worth either $16.99/month (or double that if we end up BOTH needing an Ultimate monthly ... or whether me having Monthly & him flipping to Core is sufficient)

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That right there probably does as much as any singular thing to explain what I have interest in only the latter.

(It ain't the only reason, but when I read it suddenly my relative interest levels made a lot of sense for a concrete reason)

Honestly, I think it's massively oversimplifying it to say that BG3 is about party management or built for multiplayer. I played it for 60-80 hours solo and probably with the same 4 party characters for 90-95% of that, and it's absolutely one of the greatest games of all time even though the game did get shallower in the last act and the ending was a tiny big underwhelming.

It's definitely a complex game and if you don't like D&D it won't be your bag, but I don't agree with that statement. Or at least not as a primary differentiator between the two.

FWIW, I'm also concerned about the depth of Starfield. PC Gamer really felt like it was shallow which concerns me... but then if worst case scenario it's Fallout 4 I'm going to buy it and enjoy it, and most reviews say it's better than that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

but then if worst case scenario it's Fallout 4 I'm going to buy it and enjoy it, and most reviews say it's better than that.

This was some of the discussion I had this evening with my son, about where the floor/ceiling was.

I won't lie, I'm not anywhere near as enthused about Starfield as my history would suggest. The F76 debacle robbed me of any trust whatsoever, I don't "do" eager anticipation anymore. My expectation, after F76 as the final straw, is that anything & everything released by anyone/everyone WILL be a clusterfuck. It's the same mental shift I had after the Scorpions released Eye II Eye, I haven't really trusted an upcoming musical release since (and that was 1999).

But if not for Bethesda it's unlikely I'd have ever returned to console gaming in any meaningful way. My time spent on both Oblivion/Skyrim and in the Fallout universe combined to be what brought me back AND what kept me around. (The COD/MW franchises probably wouldn't haven't gotten the chance to get my time if I wasn't sucked back in by open world single player universes)

His take was "it may not be Skyrim, but it should at least be Fallout 4" which led me to consciously realize that I really liked F4 better than most people. There's stuff I would have preferred be different but I largely enjoyed myself there (indeed had settlement building been more like what Sim Settlements evolved it into, I'm not sure I'd have ever needed another game). If Starfield can be just F4, I'm good with that. I'm more concerned, having seen a few trustworthy early reviews, that they've dumbed down things I enjoyed most (like the settlement system) and maybe introduced a thing or two that I'll absolutely hate (like the flight stuff, which looks janky as all hell to me).

So no, I don't have the "OMG a new Bethesda game" squeals of delight or breathless anticipation that I would have once had. Sufficient for now that I at least feel like it's worth giving Starfield a shot ... which was far from a slam dunk.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Same here. The more I read about BG3 it is a very very deep D&D tabletop themed game that is fairly complicated at least if you want to get the most out of it. The question with Starfield is it deep enough. I may just wait 6 months and see where it get patched to.

I haven't played Starfield yet but it seems very deep from what I have seen. One streamer stayed on the planet you start on for hours before going on to the main quest-there's at least four factions and cities to explore, quests from some of those residents, crafting, etc. And will likely get deeper with DLC's and updates.

[dubb93]

If you can play a turn based game like X-Com you can play BG. It’s a turn based battle system and explains every button. I’m not real sure why people are afraid it may be too complicated. I’ve never once played D&D, but if i didn’t know it was a D&D game I’d just assume it’s another turn based RPG. That’s not to take anything away from it. It’s incredible, but no prior knowledge is necessary any more than you would need to memorize the rules of X-Com or say a Dragon Age game.

[Thomkal]

I see too that when you finish Starfield's main quest, you can continue with Starfield New Game(NG). Sounds like you lose all your companions and possessions though and restart with more dialogue choices and quests

[GrantDawg]

I think I am finally down to the last battle on BG3. I say "think" because of have thought several times that I only had "x" things left to do only to find a bunch of other stuff.
I could have finished this weekend but I downloaded Starfield and played it for a little bit. The character creator is pretty nice, but I am having a problem with face shapes seeming weird. Then I played around with Grand Tactician Civil War for a bit. They have a new dlc where you can play a regimental commander and move up the ranks. The player creator in it was very cool, but the game play still has some serious AI problems.
I did that thing I often do when I am close to completing a game. I will let myself get distracted and if I'm not careful I won't go back and finish. Never finished Battletech for that very reason.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Then I played around with Grand Tactician Civil War for a bit. They have a new dlc where you can play a regimental commander and move up the ranks. The player creator in it was very cool, but the game play still has some serious AI problems.

Yeah, I saw where that dlc had a lot of issues.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, I saw where that dlc had a lot of issues.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The original game was the same. I think there have been some mods that greatly improved the combat AI in the base game but I have never tried them. It is such an ambitious game that hits all the right spots for a game of its type. I just wish it fulfilled it's potential.

[JonInMiddleGA]

8 hours into Starfield, Level 6. That's basically the initial tutorial, a couple sidequests, and the first couple of main quest missions. (I've seen where most everybody is recommending you get through the first 3 main quest missions (I assume they mean 3A, 3B, and 3C) before getting too far off the beaten path, because of things that get unlocked/fleshed out along the way.

Only a couple of pretty minor bug-like things I noticed, mostly involving getting ahead of a character you should be following or moving ahead before a line of dialogue hit.

The writing is kinda okay'ish but the voice acting overall is a notch above what I'm used to from Bethesda.

Combat is fine enough I guess, the enemy combat AI is definitely upgraded (though their locating you after combat AI is still pretty comical). Movement on foot feels a little ... skatey? Like the floors are freshly waxed or something.

I don't love the space combat, nor the deep space travel , but I will say that I didn't find the space combat nearly as hard on console+controller as I've seen some say it can be on PC+mouse&keyboard.

All in all, I ain't UNhappy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On a personal sidenote, so far both the kid & I have played simultaneously without issues with the following setup:

Each of us is logged in on the other's "Home" console
We have library sharing set up
I have Gamepass Ultimate, he still has the last few days of XBL Gold

That we could play simultaneously on a Gamepass game shocked me (I expected that to be like library sharing on Steam, so far that's not the case)

If this isn't a bug or something they crack down on, it's pretty significant for our gaming enjoyment long term.

[Edward64]

Nice article explaining what is random and what is not.

Starfield's randomization, explained: what will be the same for every player, and what won't | PC Gamer

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

8 hours into Starfield, Level 6. That's basically the initial tutorial, a couple sidequests, and the first couple of main quest missions. (I've seen where most everybody is recommending you get through the first 3 main quest missions (I assume they mean 3A, 3B, and 3C) before getting too far off the beaten path, because of things that get unlocked/fleshed out along the way.

Only a couple of pretty minor bug-like things I noticed, mostly involving getting ahead of a character you should be following or moving ahead before a line of dialogue hit.

The writing is kinda okay'ish but the voice acting overall is a notch above what I'm used to from Bethesda.

Combat is fine enough I guess, the enemy combat AI is definitely upgraded (though their locating you after combat AI is still pretty comical). Movement on foot feels a little ... skatey? Like the floors are freshly waxed or something.

I don't love the space combat, nor the deep space travel , but I will say that I didn't find the space combat nearly as hard on console+controller as I've seen some say it can be on PC+mouse&keyboard.

All in all, I ain't UNhappy.

Creation engine 2 apparently allows the use of AI for voice acting, which helps explain the jump in quality and should increase the quality of mods as well.

This game really comes down to how much you enjoy Bethesda games along with your interest in space games. You definitely see the same Betheada-isms you see in the ES and Fallout games, for better or worse.

I think my biggest disappointment is this is a new engine and there hasn't been much of a jump in visuals, especially NPCs and animations. You have games like RDR2 released 5 years ago on multiple platforms plus games like Horizon FW, Calisto Protocol, God of War 2, and others that make the NPCs look really dated. Some of the environments don't look too bad, but graphically the game isn't anything to write home about for AAA studio.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think my biggest disappointment is this is a new engine and there hasn't been much of a jump in visuals, especially NPCs and animations.

And that, along with the inevitable frame rate debates that take place around most games, are some of my lowest priorities. I'm story and mechanics driven, with shockingly relatively high priority to ... I dunno what to call it even, "ease of controls" or something?

I don't love the UI here but at least I can figure out most of it. (whereas a game like Kenshi I play a helluva lot more than I have if it had controller support as opposed to the most complex m&K interface I've ever encountered)

Not saying either of us are right/wrong, just more noting how priorities make big differences in how games are perceived.

[JonInMiddleGA]

2nd session with Starfield complete and I'm feeling it a little more than I was after my first (I think I played 7 hours or so day one, another 6 or so day two)

My time was a little more balanced between main quest & side quest this session and I think the side quests gave me more of "the Bethesda feel" than the tighter main quest focus I did the first night.

I don't mean that so much in the sense of "how Bethesda makes games" but rather more "how I play Bethesda games".

[dubb93]

Through act 2 in BG3. They could have ended the game there and I would have been happy. Hopefully act 3 keeps the momentum going, but it has definitely started off slow so far.

[GrantDawg]

Done. 120 hours and a little over a month after starting. I enjoy the game. Are there tweaks I would like to have seen? Sure. Did I find the story gratifying? Somewhat. Will I play it after finishing? Yes. I do agree with most people that it feels like the ending sort of bottlenecks. I wish there were more forks you can take instead really only two or maybe three choices. What I don't agree with is the perception some people have:

Spoiler

that there should have been more to do in the Upper city. Basically, the only thing you do there is the final battle. I really have no problem with that. I spent hours upon hours in the lower city and the outskirts. There were so many quests that I actually was very ready to be done by the time I kicked off the ending. I really didn't need another area at that point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting anecdotal: both me & the kid had our first Starfield crashes in our most recent sessions. Only common thing about them seemed to be that we're in the 25-30 hour range, everything else - location, situation, etc - totally different.

Mine was simply walking toward the New Atlantis trader kiosk, his was a loading screen that simply wouldn't end.

Kinda just hoping that they don't become more frequent as you we get deeper into the game.

[Bobble]

Is something wrong with me that I'm not excited about either of these games? I can't shake that Starfield seems too much like the No Man's Sky that I don't play very often anymore. BG3 reminds me of the Pillars of Eternity II that I didn't get into. Am I broken? Maybe it's just my chance to hang tight and wait until they drop in price...

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Is something wrong with me that I'm not excited about either of these games? I can't shake that Starfield seems too much like the No Man's Sky that I don't play very often anymore. BG3 reminds me of the Pillars of Eternity II that I didn't get into. Am I broken? Maybe it's just my chance to hang tight and wait until they drop in price...

I am with you and decide to go pick up the definitive edition of Divinty: Original Sins 2 I stead and am having a blast. Once I get through that along with playing the campaign stuff from Age of Empires 4 and 2 I may get Wasteland 3.

[GrantDawg]

Everybody has their own thing. Just because many people love something is no guarantee you will. I hated Divinity:Orginal Sin 2. Doesn't make it a bad game, just a game I didn't like.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Is something wrong with me that I'm not excited about either of these games? I can't shake that Starfield seems too much like the No Man's Sky that I don't play very often anymore. BG3 reminds me of the Pillars of Eternity II that I didn't get into. Am I broken? Maybe it's just my chance to hang tight and wait until they drop in price...

Eh, generally speaking you're not alone nor wrong I think. My enthusiasm for virtually anything game related has been at a decades long low for the past couple years at least. A combination, perhaps, of not being the target AND the quality control in the industry being at an all-time low.

FWIW, I will say that much of Starfield feels very much like Bethesda's heyday to me. Maybe not as thrilling because, well, we have seen it before but I'm finding no problem with getting stuck in pretty good during a session. The feel is largely right, IF a Bethesda game is what you're looking for.

My son described one particular encounter (which I haven't had yet) as "one of the best, most fun, most exciting, hours of gaming he's ever had in thousands of hours of gaming". (He is NOT given to casual praise, so that's a huge compliment)

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, the deeper I go the more unstable the game kinda feels. Had my 3rd crash in three sessions (I'm on XBX). And 2 of the 3 were hard crashes, not lockup but CTD basically.

Each of mine have occurred between ship and spaceport, either upon touching ground or taking just a few steps.

My suspicion based on the interwebz comments is that it's related to the large amount of saves the game compiles and the sheer size of those saves.

[Edward64]

Broke down and bought Starfield. Got through the mining portion of the tutorial. As expected, the graphics aren't great on my low end right. Best way to describe it is "grainy" but so far, no big issues with frame rate.

Reading other people's experiences with low end rigs, that may change once I get into the bigger, open world.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kind of depressing as I pass through the teens and go into the Level 20+ portion of Starfield.

Bugs have escalated rapidly, with both crew members and companions missing more than present in my last two play sessions (so give or take 15 hours of real time).

I've hit at least 1 bugged side quest (no way to advance but it won't fail & go away either) and have stopped a main faction quest due to reading how my current missed is bugged with no real workaround fix found so far.

It's kind of frustrating because to be honest, the actual game play has been very close to what I want and expect (in a positive way) from a Bethesda game. I've quite enjoyed nearly every session I've played so far, and it was to the point that each session had been better than the one before. I just wish that didn't come with the return of the trademark bugs :/

[GrantDawg]

I wish I could get into it. It seem interesting, but the first time I hit a time wasting "run and pick up" mission I started losing my interest. I already have a hard time with real time shooters, but top that with run and fetch boring missions isn't a great combo for my interest.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I wish I could get into it. It seem interesting, but the first time I hit a time wasting "run and pick up" mission I started losing my interest. I already have a hard time with real time shooters, but top that with run and fetch boring missions isn't a great combo for my interest.

I haven’t started it yet, but I’m already of the mindset that I’m going to tell myself that I love Bethesda games and that everyone says the first 10 hours aren’t good but it gets excellent after that.

[Qwikshot]

Greatly enjoying BG3. There are times where I need a break because there is so much.

I'm not entirely sure on replayability either but it is nice that you can respec your character anytime to experiment on builds.

I do think that they didn't think through making it a one and done game. I get why, but seriously it's fun to play and new builds/races could probably enhance some replayability.

I would love if I beat it to be able to say be able to do a new game plus with my current character which would entice replayability as I could try out some things at the beginning with a stronger start.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I haven’t started it yet, but I’m already of the mindset that I’m going to tell myself that I love Bethesda games and that everyone says the first 10 hours aren’t good but it gets excellent after that.

Hours 11 through 40ish (50ish?) have been pretty much what I would have wanted in terms of engagement. There's some design choices I would have changed but to this point I feel like it's their best work since maybe FO3.

[GrantDawg]

Bg3 definitely offers a totally different replay if you decided to go evil. Instead of saving people, focus on gaining power. Not to mention playing with the dark urge background that adds content.
I have started a new playthrough with a dark urge to do just that. I am also playing at the tactician level, but I am playing with a mod that allows 6 players. I haven't gone very far and am taking a break. It has been all of my free time pretty much since about a month before release, and I'm just in the mood for something different for awhile.

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[SirFozzie]

I've decided to add a bunch of mods to the game, adding stuff that's missing (the Artificer class, more cleric domains/gods, etcetera) ANd this is without official modding tools yet. (and yes, there are those degenerates with exaggerated nude/futa/etcetera stuff, but I don't have any of that)

Too bad you can't cross play if you have mods.

[SirFozzie]

OH MY GAWD. I'm literally laughing my ass off. Someone found an easter egg in BG 3 from a files search where..

Spoiler

Karlach realizes she's a character in a video game. No one knows how to trigger it in game, but someone's posted the whole conversation. She does ask a very important question.. are you having fun?

https://twitter.com/SamanthaBeart/st...58961753502110

[GrantDawg]

Just throwing this in here, but why haven't I heard much about Star Trek: Infinite? I even heard of it till just now. A Star Trek Paradox style game? Sound interesting.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just throwing this in here, but why haven't I heard much about Star Trek: Infinite? I even heard of it till just now. A Star Trek Paradox style game? Sound interesting.

I’m extraordinarily disappointed in the scope of the game. Only four playable races? No dominion? No borg? They are holding too much back for DLC. Entire quadrants appear to be missing from the game.

[Edward64]

I remember hearing about it.

The graphics are very familiar. Hmmmm, some could almost say "stellar" like.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I remember hearing about it.

The graphics are very familiar. Hmmmm, some could almost say "stellar" like.

It definitely has the same look. That a game I just never really put much time in, but I feel like if I had a more familiar setting it would interest me more.

Originally Posted by dubb93

I’m extraordinarily disappointed in the scope of the game. Only four playable races? No dominion? No borg? They are holding too much back for DLC. Entire quadrants appear to be missing from the game.

That I get. You do need more scope for a game like this. Then again, the reason I never got into Stellar was that it was so massive. By the time you are several hours in the game there is way too much going on to keep up with for me.

[Thomkal]

Not sure how many here are Critical Roll fans, but the British/Yogscast version, High Rollers might have something interesting for BG3 fans. Several members of the voice cast for that game will be appearing in England at the High Rollers studio for a D&D livecast/adventure. I think this Friday, details are here:


https://twitter.com/HighRollersDnD/s...16154756846074

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Not sure how many here are Critical Roll fans, but the British/Yogscast version, High Rollers might have something interesting for BG3 fans. Several members of the voice cast for that game will be appearing in England at the High Rollers studio for a D&D livecast/adventure. I think this Friday, details are here:


https://twitter.com/HighRollersDnD/s...16154756846074

I love it in theory, but they are such huge time sinks I can never stay in them. This does look great. I just love how nerdy all the voice actors are that played these characters.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I love it in theory, but they are such huge time sinks I can never stay in them. This does look great. I just love how nerdy all the voice actors are that played these characters.

Yeah I've not stuck with High Rollers/Critical Role because of that time sink. But High Rollers was fun in its first season-no voice actors, just Yogscast members/friends some of who had not played/very little D&D before

[Ghost Econ]

Can we add Bluey to the title, because thats at the top of my preorders.

[Edward64]

Hah, you got me. I was wondering how come I've not heard of it before. But there's a lot of dog lover here so why not.

Expect at least a couple posts about it from you.

[dubb93]

Phil Spencer says Microsoft will exit the gaming business in 2027 (2028 is their target for the next gen console so this would mean that they just never realise it) unless they have significant off console uptake in Game Pass. Wonder what that would do to Activision (assuming this deal goes though) and Bethesda.

Also, dude needs to realize the PC app is trash. It needs significantly improved before he expects people to dive in headlong on PC. Honestly, if I didn't already pay for Game Pass for my children, I would have just bought Starfield on Steam simply to have it there instead of the XBox app.

Taking functionality aside, threatening to shut down your business isn't a good way to convince people to purchase things digitally from you either. Sometimes I feel like this company just can't get out of its own way.