Werewolf LVII: Cathedral (GAME OVER!)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I never said your rebuttle doesn't matter. I meant you could claim to have any secret ability and there would be no way to verify

I actually have a minor role that is verifiable, but I'd prefer not to have to have that person do so on Day One.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- I just want to point out that if you guys think this game is going to be as easy as rushing to build a cathedral you are nuts

I don't think many of us think it will be that easy -- but I happen to think it's the best Day 1 play.

[st.cronin]

Lathum, I doubt building the cathedral will be easy at all. But I don't think its a bad idea to TRY to build the cathedral.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

show me where I said I want you to reveal anything?

besides, you can say anything at this point and there is no way to verify it, so why even bother.

This says you did in fact say any rebuttle is pretty well meaningless.

Originally Posted by RendeR

Gah...indeed, I am an idiot, the Village idiot it seems.

I was asking for someone to point out something I missed, they did, so I'm calling myself an idiot, I never suggested you caled me one.

Originally Posted by Lathum

The rules state that not all roles have a special power or ability, so why would you have a plan to find out if other people have a power or ability? It doesn't make much sense.

I didn't read it right, or thoroughly enough, NC pointed it out and I admit my mistake.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why not just come out and say " I have a special ability, does anyone else?"

IMO trying to be coy about it seems far more suspicous.

Are you stoned? If it turned out that only a very few people had special skills then I'd be lining myself up at the executioners block for the deamons to slaughter. Come on now, you're not that naive.

Originally Posted by Lathum

I never think it is a good thing to no lynch and if you think the game is going to be as easy as rush to build the cathedral then win I think you are mistaken.

I would normally agree with you on the no lynch, most games with a more standard rule set mean that lynches are our only real way to gain knowlege, howver this is not a basic game, there is a very good reason to keep people alive. A- it gives us more work actions, speeding up the build, B- it keeps the villager/Deamon ratio far away from a 1-1, especially as most day 1 lynches are villager/villager affairs.

So i understand you want a lynch, I'm just hoping you can see how this game makes a day 1 or even day 2 lynch a bad thing if they are blind, no knowledge, "we HAVE to lynch someone" actions. it just doesn't benefit us.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Lathum, I doubt building the cathedral will be easy at all. But I don't think its a bad idea to TRY to build the cathedral.

show me where I said it was?

[Barkeep49]

I just want to be clear: There will be a lynch each day. One way or another...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Lathum, I doubt building the cathedral will be easy at all. But I don't think its a bad idea to TRY to build the cathedral.

If you really think that, why would you waste your actions voting for CR?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I just want to be clear: There will be a lynch each day. One way or another...

oh shi

Still, I think we're best served by building this cathedral first, then figuring out who the demons are. I liked Anxiety's plan for how we could both build the Cathedral and try to find some demons. I think we should really proceed with that tomorrow.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

oh shi

Still, I think we're best served by building this cathedral first, then figuring out who the demons are. I liked Anxiety's plan for how we could both build the Cathedral and try to find some demons. I think we should really proceed with that tomorrow.

hmmmm

Maybe I am missing something here but if someone is going to get lynched regardless don't you think we should focus some of our efforts into finding the demons?

[st.cronin]

Ok, well, I'll be back later. I hope to see some explanation from CR and Alan T for their votes when I get back.

[oliegirl]

I have a private role as well, but would rather not reveal it this early in the game.

Not sure where I stand on the voting, I've got some stuff to do around the house and then I'll go through and re-read everything and make my observations and decisions...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I just want to be clear: There will be a lynch each day. One way or another...

Well shit then....this blows my position to hell and back.


Fuckit, lynch me, go for it. I'm no deamon so all you learn is that...GASP, I'm no deamon.

[Neon_Chaos]

The Lord almighty has spooken! An inquisition must take place!

AND NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I have a private role as well, but would rather not reveal it this early in the game.

Not sure where I stand on the voting, I've got some stuff to do around the house and then I'll go through and re-read everything and make my observations and decisions...

I'm confused.

role or ability?

[Neon_Chaos]

I hath misspelled spoken!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hmmmm

Maybe I am missing something here but if someone is going to get lynched regardless don't you think we should focus some of our efforts into finding the demons?

I have never been interested in avoiding a lynch -- I just want to get as much built as we can, and quickly.

This begs the question, what happens if we kill the demons -- is there anything stopping us from just finishing the cathedral? I don't get how a major victory isn't just automatic if we kill the demons.

[DaddyTorgo]

been busy all day so far. haven't really even thought about checking in. figured i'd go with the "no vote and build instead" idea barring any major snafus by the demons.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I have never been interested in avoiding a lynch -- I just want to get as much built as we can, and quickly.

This begs the question, what happens if we kill the demons -- is there anything stopping us from just finishing the cathedral? I don't get how a major victory isn't just automatic if we kill the demons.

My ponderings had just hit upon this question as well. perhaps the quick-fix of building confused me a ibt. If we kill al the deamons we should automatically win the major victory.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm confused.

role or ability?

Sorry, ability.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hmmmm

Maybe I am missing something here but if someone is going to get lynched regardless don't you think we should focus some of our efforts into finding the demons?

Originally Posted by RendeR

My ponderings had just hit upon this question as well. perhaps the quick-fix of building confused me a ibt. If we kill al the deamons we should automatically win the major victory.

I had already sent Barkeep a PM asking about it. Hopefully his answer will clear things up.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I had already sent Barkeep a PM asking about it. Hopefully his answer will clear things up.

Good man!

[path12]

I would have been in favor of the no lynch plan today, but I'm just a peon, so what do I know? Well, I do know a thing or two actually, but that's not important yet. It looks like we're set on walls, so I will

WORK ON CARPENTRY

I'll save a vote for later, but have to say the quick two votes on Anxiety stunk from this viewpoint also.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RendeR

My ponderings had just hit upon this question as well. perhaps the quick-fix of building confused me a ibt. If we kill al the deamons we should automatically win the major victory.

The OOG explanation is that I intended to make major victories difficult. The game automatically ends when all the Demons have been killed, but not when the Cathedral is finished. Logically you are correct, that would make sense, it's just not how it happens in this game

[RendeR]

Ok, that makes sense then, i don't think any of us realized that the game didn't end with the Cathedral being built.

So my original plan should work out the best, get the thing built and done so we don't have to worry about it and then go whole hog after the demons.

Simple

[RendeR]

Ok, so there will be a lynch, one way or another, the game does NOT end with the building of the Cathedral, but that is a winning point for us if we manage it.

So lets get crackin boys! get this bitch built and lets get to dealin some death to some deamons!!!

[Barkeep49]

Let me just quote the rules to be clear about what I'm talking about:

Originally Posted by the rules

Note: The game will end either if there are no Demons left or at the end of the following day after all work on the Cathedral is complete (so if all work is done by the end of Day 3, the Cathedral must still have no work left at the end of Day 4).

[saldana]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I want to reiterate that I think based on the rules of the game lynching is a bad idea. The more people we get rid of the less people there are to get work done. The fastest and simplest way to win this game for us is to get everyone building each day.

Its simple math, the demons can't out-kill our ability to build, even with sabotage I don't think they have the numbers to kill us off faster than we can complete the job.

not making a judgment on render as demon or not, but this is a false assumption...we have no idea at this point how much work will be undone by a successful sabotage mission, nor how much and how many times they can amplify their damage...our entire days work could be undone in one night for all we know right now.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RendeR

See, this is the crap I dislike. You toss out some accusation and when I try to offer a rebuttle you take the "doesn't matter what you say" position and no matter how I try to handle it it just makes me look worse. OF course then I'm all but required to point out what an excellent con job it is for you to do so on the first day and you toss back "so now your accsing me, blah blah blah"

The problem is, you didn't actually come out and cop to having some unrevealed ability until after several other people had already done so. This is the sort of thing where, for better or worse, you only get one chance to make the right decision, and you can't really do anything to fix it if you choose wrong. I'm not sure which way I go on how innocent your mistake is, but it's something that's very difficult to talk your way out of.

[Mr. Wednesday]

WORK ON ARTWORK

[Mr. Wednesday]

What's our vote count?

[Passacaglia]

WORK ON WALLS

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by saldana

not making a judgment on render as demon or not, but this is a false assumption...we have no idea at this point how much work will be undone by a successful sabotage mission, nor how much and how many times they can amplify their damage...our entire days work could be undone in one night for all we know right now.

You are absolutely right sal, I am making an assumption that they can't undo a butt-load of work at any give time. if they can then there is no rush either way, and has further discussion (and GM explanation have shown) we don't win automaticaly when the cathedral is finished, its a way to get a win but its probably not as easy as I would have thought in the beginning.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

What's our vote count?

Now that I'm home I'm going to go through and do an official tally.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The problem is, you didn't actually come out and cop to having some unrevealed ability until after several other people had already done so. This is the sort of thing where, for better or worse, you only get one chance to make the right decision, and you can't really do anything to fix it if you choose wrong. I'm not sure which way I go on how innocent your mistake is, but it's something that's very difficult to talk your way out of.

I wasn't aware that anyone had come out and said anything about abilities prior to my stating that I thought the public roles were unimportant. I know 2 people did shortly after that and that is what I hoped would happen with my comments.

My only real error was not reading and comprehending the rules as listed. NC pointed them out to be after the fact and I put on my village idiot cap. Done and done.

[Barkeep49]

Here's what I have:

Cathedral:
Walls – cronin (55), ntn (58), Alan (61), Pass (77), saldana (82), Neon (88), Render (114), Lathum (120), Pass (181)
Artwork – olie (64), Anxiety (65), Mr. W (179)
Carpentry – PurdueBrad (73), Chief Rum (80), path (172)

Votes:
Anxiety – Chief Rum (80), Alan (107)
Render – Lathum (110)
Rum – Cronin (124)

Remaining Actions: Neon Chaos (1), ntn (1), olie (1), saldana (1), path (1), Daddy T (2), Mr. W (1), cronin (1), Schmidty (2), Anxiety (1), Purdue (1), Render (1)

[saldana]

so based on barkeeps numbers, we could finish either the artwork or the carpentry today as well if enough people put in the same work order

[Neon_Chaos]

Ah, what have we here, votes on the Butcher, the Novice, and the Musician?

Seeing as you already have two votes upon your name. Pray tell, Butcher Anxiety, why should I not place a vote upon you? How are we certain that your daily slaughters are not for want of sacrifice to the demonic hoardes?

And you, Musician Render, what say you to the accusation brought forth by the Knight? Perhaps your simple tunes are nothing more but a ruse... you play pleasant tunes when in fact, you serve a purpose much darker than the notes that you pluck?

And where has this Novice been? I will have to question his motives as well... casting the first stone against the Butcher.

I have lent my service to building the cathedral. A vote must now be given. 'Tis a burden to do so, but the Lord wills it. I must come to a decision before the hour of judgement is at hand.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ah, what have we here, votes on the Butcher, the Novice, and the Musician?

Seeing as you already have two votes upon your name. Pray tell, Butcher Anxiety, why should I not place a vote upon you? How are we certain that your daily slaughters are not for want of sacrifice to the demonic hoardes?

And you, Musician Render, what say you to the accusation brought forth by the Knight? Perhaps your simple tunes are nothing more but a ruse... you play pleasant tunes when in fact, you serve a purpose much darker than the notes that you pluck?

And where has this Novice been? I will have to question his motives as well... casting the first stone against the Butcher.

I have lent my service to building the cathedral. A vote must now be given. 'Tis a burden to do so, but the Lord wills it. I must come to a decision before the hour of judgement is at hand.

Maybe Chief Rum was throwing out a random Day One vote, and he chose me because I hadn't played in awhile and he liked the irony.

The problem is that he didn;t need to vote. He could have saved his second action for cathedral building, but he didn;t. Now he can;t take it back and do work. Instead he has to vote for someone, althoughhe can change targets. Since his action locked him in to voting instead o fbuilding, I have to quesiton his motives.

-Abe

[Barkeep49]

I'm off to dinner, and will likely be back in an hour and a half or so.

[Neon_Chaos]

O Lord! O Lord! Where hast thou gone!? Why do I smell roasted pork and carrots!?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ah, what have we here, votes on the Butcher, the Novice, and the Musician?
...
And you, Musician Render, what say you to the accusation brought forth by the Knight? Perhaps your simple tunes are nothing more but a ruse... you play pleasant tunes when in fact, you serve a purpose much darker than the notes that you pluck?
...
I have lent my service to building the cathedral. A vote must now be given. 'Tis a burden to do so, but the Lord wills it. I must come to a decision before the hour of judgement is at hand.

Typical clergyman, lazy, self ritious, self import......err..Oh hi there Bishop =)

Not to point out the obvious, but yer assistant should be keeping you up to date on matters of state and all that. please re-peruse the thread thus far and you'll find my statements to the aforementioned accusations.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

O Lord! O Lord! Where hast thou gone!? Why do I smell roasted pork and carrots!?

Actually it was corned beef and fettucini alfredo....

[RendeR]

I will happily ad to the work being done (I've already added to the wall) once I know that I'm not going to be lynched, until then I have to keep my remaining action available for self preservation purposes.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Typical clergyman, lazy, self ritious, self import......err..Oh hi there Bishop =)

Not to point out the obvious, but yer assistant should be keeping you up to date on matters of state and all that. please re-peruse the thread thus far and you'll find my statements to the aforementioned accusations.

This is funny to me. I laughed.

[ntndeacon]

I do not like the early votes on Anxiety either. I am unsure where Chief Rum came up with those.

Vote Chief Rum

[Schmidty]

Why do I still have 2 actions? I think I need to read the rules again.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Here's what I have:

Cathedral:
Walls – cronin (55), ntn (58), Alan (61), Pass (77), saldana (82), Neon (88), Render (114), Lathum (120), Pass (181)
Artwork – olie (64), Anxiety (65), Mr. W (179)
Carpentry – PurdueBrad (73), Chief Rum (80), path (172)

Votes:
Anxiety – Chief Rum (80), Alan (107)
Render – Lathum (110)
Rum – Cronin (124)

Remaining Actions: Neon Chaos (1), ntn (1), olie (1), saldana (1), path (1), Daddy T (2), Mr. W (1), cronin (1), Schmidty (2), Anxiety (1), Purdue (1), Render (1)

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I do not like the early votes on Anxiety either. I am unsure where Chief Rum came up with those.

Vote Chief Rum

Ah my wonderful assistant. Where have you been? The day has been long, and quite tiring. I need a bath, preferrably with delightful little bubbles.

[Schmidty]

Ok, well I'm the mason, but it looks like there's enough work on the walls, so I'll:

WORK ON ARTWORK

[RendeR]

I'm at work and students are stupid, so I'll be back later on prior to deadline.

[Lathum]

I am getting ready to go out for the Giants game in a few minutes.
hopefully we bag us a demon tonight