OT: Jeopardy! fans

[vtbub]

You can be incredibly quick on a buzzer, but you still have to answer the questions right in order to win.

The PYL boards were slides that were flashed in the same order along with the lights, Larson studied it and cheated, he knew what the exact sequrence for 5k and a spin was.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by vtbub

You can be incredibly quick on a buzzer, but you still have to answer the questions right in order to win.

The PYL boards were slides that were flashed in the same order along with the lights, Larson studied it and cheated, he knew what the exact sequrence for 5k and a spin was.

As I've said numerous times, I'm not taking anything away from his intellect.

Actually no, he knew all of the possible patterns and could therefor stop the board whereever he wanted. There 8 (I think) possible patterns that he had to memorize, once down he knew if the board went 3-4 then it would go to 6 next which was a +spin square which was desireable.

I'm not even convinced there is a timing pattern on Jeopardy but if there is, it's no different than what Larson did. Besides, Larson never cheated he DID get his money afterall. There were no rulesof CBS' that he broke, they talk about it in the GSN documentary.

[vtbub]

Larson was not allowed to defend because he exceeded CBS $25,000 winning limits.

As Chubster says, he got paid. Nobody at CBS thought the system was crackable, so he did nothing wrong.

They changed to a computer system for the rest of the series.

(cleaning up for those who didn't watch the GSN show)

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Larson was not allowed to defend because he exceeded CBS $25,000 winning limits.

As Chubster says, he got paid. Nobody at CBS thought the system was crackable, so he did nothing wrong.

They changed to a computer system for the rest of the series.

(cleaning up for those who didn't watch the GSN show)

Yup, I loved PSL. The new Whammy just isn't the same, whenever I see the Larson special on I have to watch. It's just so interesting to me.

[RPI-Fan]

And to finish it off...

He wasted a bunch of his money on stupid things, kept the rest in cash in his trailer, and [predictably] got robbed and proceeded to see his life fall apart.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

And to finish it off...

He wasted a bunch of his money on stupid things, kept the rest in cash in his trailer, and [predictably] got robbed and proceeded to see his life fall apart.

I think he blew a good chunk of it on bad property deals and stupid get rich quick schemes too.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I'm not even convinced there is a timing pattern on Jeopardy but if there is, it's no different than what Larson did.

Now, that's just absurd.

On Press Your Luck, the pattern was an absolutely critical element of the game. The network failed to sufficiently randomize it, and it was "cracked" by a savvy contestant. On that show, just being able to time you buzzing was enough skill to be a dominating player. Whether you call what Larson did cheating or not, it clearly gave him a monstrous advantage in the game.

On Jeopary! there is a system to allow contestants to buzz in only at a certain time, and not before. This is obviously in place to prevent a contestant from deciding to just "gamble" and buzz in first before even hearing a question (assuming he can get it right anyway). If you buzz in before the question is "active" your buzzer is disabled for a second or so, putting you at a disadvantage. So, there is some skill required in learning the proper timing to buzz in when you know an answer. Being better at this than the other contestants is certainly some degree of advantage, but it hardly measures up at all to the contestants' relative command of the material covered - not even close. You can "cheat" all you want with buzzer timing, but if you don't know the answers, you're just losing money faster than everyone else.


One guy "cracks a beatable system using videotape and pattern memorization" and another guy is "very good at answering right on time." These are the same thing? Of course not.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Now, that's just absurd.

On Press Your Luck, the pattern was an absolutely critical element of the game. The network failed to sufficiently randomize it, and it was "cracked" by a savvy contestant. On that show, just being able to time you buzzing was enough skill to be a dominating player. Whether you cann what Larson did cheating or not, it clearly gave him a monstrous advantage in the game.

On Jeopary! there is a system to allow contestants to buzz in only at a certain time, and not before. This is obviously in place to prevent a contestant from deciding to just "gamble" and buzz in first before even hearing a question (assuming he can get it right anyway). If you buzz in before the question is "active" your buzzer is disabled for a second or so, putting you at a disadvantage. So, there is some skill required in learning the proper timing to buzz in when you know an answer. Being better at this than the other contestants is certainly some degree of advantage, but it hardly measures up at all to the contestants' relative command of the material covered - not even close. You can "cheat" all you want with buzzer timing, but if you don't know the answers, you're just losing money faster than everyone else.


One guy "cracks a beatable system using videotape and pattern memorization" and another guy is "very good at answering right on time." These are the same thing? Of course not.

how many times do I have to say that yes, he has to know the answers and be incredibly smart. I've never said anything to the effect that Ken is only winning because of his buzzing in ability. I'm saying, that ability is what is prolonging this streak.

The timing aspect of it is no different. You don't think that it would be advantageous to be able to always buzz in before your opponents?

Say there are 5 questions a game where the only reason he gets those $ is because he has the buzzing in timed, he gets the $ his opponents don't. That is a sufficent difference to change the possible outcome of the game.

Again, I'm not saying that he has it imed perfectly but it is a possibilty and could explain the winning streak.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Chubby

how many times do I have to say that yes, he has to know the answers and be incredibly smart. I've never said anything to the effect that Ken is only winning because of his buzzing in ability. I'm saying, that ability is what is prolonging this streak.

The timing aspect of it is no different. You don't think that it would be advantageous to be able to always buzz in before your opponents?

Say there are 5 questions a game where the only reason he gets those $ is because he has the buzzing in timed, he gets the $ his opponents don't. That is a sufficent difference to change the possible outcome of the game.

Again, I'm not saying that he has it imed perfectly but it is a possibilty and could explain the winning streak.

Yes, and it's the same thing all of us have known all along.

You're preaching to the choir.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Yes, and it's the same thing all of us have known all along.

You're preaching to the choir.

obviously not, see QS' post.

[sooner333]

Am I in the only place where Jeopardy comes on the NBC rather than the ABC affiliate??? Just wondering. BTW, I'm not going to post a spoiler, despite knowing

[Ksyrup]

Ours is on the CBS affiliate.

[lurker]

No, it's on NBC in Michigan. Here in Chicago, though, it's on the ABC affiliate in the afternoon. I'll have to start taping it. It was so much easier back home when it'd be on after work!

Is it lame that I want to watch it because someone who posts on another board I go to is going to be on next week?

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by lurker

Is it lame that I want to watch it because someone who posts on another board I go to is going to be on next week?

Nah, if QS were ever on I would be certain to watch. I really want to see his safari hat...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Am I in the only place where Jeopardy comes on the NBC rather than the ABC affiliate??? Just wondering. BTW, I'm not going to post a spoiler, despite knowing

Nah, we get it on NBC, too.

SI

[Chubby]

We used to have them on ABC but a couple of years ago they went to CBS.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Chubby

obviously not, see QS' post.

Do you know how to read???

Originally Posted by QuikSand

another guy is "very good at answering right on time."

[Buccaneer]

Good grief. I had completely forgotten about this and just saw that he is still winning. 24 days and something like $780k.

[Bee]

Is it just me or have they made the questions tougher?

I watched last night and it seemed the questions were harder. There were several questions no one got. At the end, 1 person had $1000 another -$4600 and then the robot only had like $25,000 going into final jeopardy.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Is it just me or have they made the questions tougher?

I watched last night and it seemed the questions were harder. There were several questions no one got. At the end, 1 person had $1000 another -$4600 and then the robot only had like $25,000 going into final jeopardy.

Haha... reminds me of the King of the Hill where Peggy tries to win money on Jeopardy!, and when she finishes at -$15,000, Alex comes up to her and says "Mrs. Hill - you do know that you owe us that money?"

[sabotai]

I thought that was The Simpsons.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I thought that was The Simpsons.

Perhaps it was that also, but I know it definitely happened on KotH, since it fit so perfectly with Peggy's personality.

[Subby]

Here is how the "buzzing in" works...

There are lights across the top and down the left side of the scoreboard. When they light up, you can buzz in with your clicker. If you try and buzz in before those lights light up, then you are "frozen out" for a half second.

There is no "timing" involved. It is eye-hand coordination combined with cognitive recognition. Neither alone will get you anywhere, probably...

edit: I only know this because my wife told me

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Subby

Here is how the "buzzing in" works...

There are lights across the top and down the left side of the scoreboard. When they light up, you can buzz in with your clicker. If you try and buzz in before those lights light up, then you are "frozen out" for a half second.

There is no "timing" involved. It is eye-hand coordination combined with cognitive recognition. Neither alone will get you anywhere, probably...

edit: I only know this because my wife told me

Well, there has to be some "rhythym" to when the lighting of the lights on the scoreboard - as in how soon after the clue is revealed or read that they turn those lights on. I mean, they have to decide when to light that light somehow - it is probably a regular interval either from when the clue is revealed or Ken's admirer finishes reading it. Mrs. Subby's day 2 notwithstanding, I imagine having experience with the buzzer would be a tremendous advantage over those who do not.

Just curious - do they withhold the winnings until broadcast to keep you from telling people the results?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I mean, they have to decide when to light that light somehow - it is probably a regular interval either from when the clue is revealed or Ken's admirer finishes reading it. Mrs. Subby's day 2 notwithstanding, I imagine having experience with the buzzer would be a tremendous advantage over those who do not.

I need to ask her, but it is entirely possible the light pops up manually - meaning a judge has to activate it. I'll ask.

Also - prior to coming on the show they actually tell you to practice by watching the show on television and clicking with a ball point pen to get the "feel" of clicking-in.

Originally Posted by Samdari

Just curious - do they withhold the winnings until broadcast to keep you from telling people the results?

No - you are free to tell anyone. It just takes a good 3-6 months to get your money - minus the state of California's hard-earned cut

[sooner333]

Just won his 25th in a row and is over the $750,000 mark. He did, however lose final jeopardy to only win 14k, but since the other contestant who actually made it into the black only had $400, it was kind of a moot point.

[Ksyrup]

At this point, winning only $14K is barely worth the effort of kicking the 3 hookers out of his hotel bed to get dressed for the show.

[Bee]

I wonder if he's quit his old job yet and told them he's found something better.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

At this point, winning only $14K is barely worth the effort of kicking the 3 hookers out of his hotel bed to get dressed for the show.

He's a mormon. If he was taking hookers back to the hotel, it was for bible readings.

EDIT: quoted wrong dude.

[lurker]

Here's a forum where Ken Jennings has posted occasionally. It's pretty interesting to hear him talk about questions he knew, why he didn't wager more, etc.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity....post&p=1609709

[Ksyrup]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

This is (allegedly, I guess) Ken commenting on the "smugness" factor, and it seems consistent with what I've seen from him on the show:

Lots of speculation on whether or not Ken is a jerk. I think I can speak pretty authoritatively on this subject.

It's true that, in the games that are airing now, I probably appear happy and comfortable at the podium. That's because playing Jeopardy is pretty fun and I've done it enough times to feel relaxed while doing it. But "I know I'm going to win" is *not* the reason I look relaxed up there. In fact, I was sure I was going to lose every single taping day (law of averages!), though obviously I was wrong about that from time to time. The reason I'm smiling is because, even if I lose at this point, who cares? Really nothing left to prove, just enjoying the ride until it ends.

But I think it's great that people are rooting against me too. Anything that builds interest in the show, right?

[lurker]

I was suspicious that it was him, but somebody from the forum posted a few weeks ago that she'd be on yesterday, and told us what story she'd tell Alex, so I knew it was her for sure. And she seemed to know Ken, but I suppose it is possible it's not him.

[lurker]

This post of his is interesting too (I just searched for all of his).

"So, when the outcome of the game is no longer in question, you're essentially betting your own money. Let's say some guy comes up to you on the street with a trivia question about, say, New York governors. He wants you to put up $10,000 of your own money on the answer. Do you take it? Even if you think you're pretty good at this kind of thing, do you really want to risk lots of your own money, money that would otherwise be yours to keep, on the question? Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on your confidence in the category, how badly you need the money, and lots of other variables.

No offense, but viewer frustration is about the last consideration that should be going through your mind. "


http://forums.televisionwithoutpity....post&p=1591917

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure it is, but you never know.

[sterlingice]

Ken's still dominating with 28 days and $920K coming in... (SPOILER)












Well, I can't say how it's ended yet, but he ran the first two categories and didn't give up a question until the $1000 question on the third category. It was 6200-0-0 at the first commercial break. (And 12400-1700-400 at halftime)

SI

[Ksyrup]

I wonder how this is going to end. An off-day? A string of categories he doesn't know? One bad guess on a daily double and/or final jeopardy while trying to go for broke? Maybe he'll just quit after he hits a million?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I wonder how this is going to end.

If movies have taught me anything, this can end only one way: He must face Alex Trebek!

Come on, they've been teasing it already with Trebek's thinly-veiled disgust each time he won't go for the record. You can tell he's dying to get out there and just go Ben Stein on him.

Yes, I think we need an episode where Trebek leaves the podium and faces him one-on-one. Think of the final scene of Gladiator (only on a game show set instead of a colliseum).

[sterlingice]

Well, I don't think he's unbeatable but he's not going to all of a sudden get blown out by someone quicker on the trigger than him since he's probably near perfection with the timing. But when he does eventually lose, it'll be when someone hangs close enough to be within half at FJ and there's a question that Ken doesn't know and the challenger does.

Either that or Alex goes and kicks his ass- that'd be fun.

SI

[SirFozzie]

Another big win for him, apparently..

Saw a story that he is now over 972,000 (which would put him very close to 52,000, the one day record) and can break a million tommorrow.

[thealmighty]

He tied the record again- exactly $52,000.

[Maple Leafs]

He wound up with $52K exactly, tying (but not breaking) the record.

I think he's officially trying to drive Alex insane. The show literally ended with Trebek screetching "You couldn't have bet one more dollar?"

[Bee]

I think the best chance someone has of beating him is to get a couple of the daily doubles to keep pace and then get the Final Jeopardy question right when he misses it. I know they tape 5 shows a day, but does anyone know if they tape 5 shows every day or are there breaks between tapings? The pace might get to him as well...

[QuikSand]

Well, in election-year tradition, I have flip-flopped on Ken -- in part because of his ongoing humility and sense of humor, and now find myself rooting for him again.

Last night was great -- starting things off by running the first two columns, top to bottom, without a peep from the "opposition." It was as if he was saying "okay, the category doesn't really mater to me, so let's just start clearing the page left to right..."

It seems very possible that we could have a FJ with only Ken participating, as his opponents starts to panic more and more by intimidation from his winnings.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Bee

I think the best chance someone has of beating him is to get a couple of the daily doubles to keep pace and then get the Final Jeopardy question right when he misses it.

I agree to a point. I think your best shot is just to stay within striking distance (2/3 of this score, of course), and then bet nothing at the end -- and hope for a "stumper" in FJ. Assuming that the rival is not as good a player as Ken, this seems more likely -- I like the chances of a complete stumper question better than a "Ken misses, John Doe hits."

[QuikSand]

While driving this weekend, Mrs. Q and I got to discussing ... "what should Ken do with his newfound fame?" Assuming he's the type (not necessarily a safe assumption) to tr to capitalize on this opportunity...

I think writing a book, and getting it out quickly, is a real option.

But we started thinking about TV opportunitites... perhaps something trivia-related (duh)? Host his own game show (a la Win Ben Stein's Money)? Perhaps he could host a show that was geared toward the game show crowd - but not really a game show -- more of a "trivia whirlwind" concept?

Interesting possibilities... I figure he could eaisly pocket another million by year's end. I'd buy his book.

[Bee]

I wonder who makes more per episode...Alex or Ken?

[Pyser]

oh man, he was in trouble today. got the last question right (for $2k) to more than double second place....

the most impressive part though was the beginning of double jeopardy. he only had a $2,000 lead, and then got, id say, the next 15 questions right. he only got in trouble when he lost more than $9k on his daily doubles....

[sterlingice]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...on_jeopardy_dc

Winning Streak Propels 'Jeopardy' Ratings
By Kimberly Speight

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - "Jeopardy!" is reaping the ratings rewards of a record-setting winning streak by contestant Ken Jennings.

The veteran quiz show has seen its ratings skyrocket since Jennings' first appearance on June 2. On Tuesday, the episode that saw Jennings pass the $1 million mark delivered an 11.1 rating/21 share in Nielsen Media Research's top 56 "metered" markets.

That rating is up 25% over the 8.9/17 average that "Jeopardy!" posted in the metered markets during the week of June 28, when Jennings was already well into his winning streak. It's also up 41% from the 7.9 average household rating the show logged on a national basis for the week ending July 4, the most recent week for which national figures are available. With that 7.9 rating, the show was up 5% week-to-week and up 36% compared with the same period a year ago.

Tuesday's episode marked the 30th consecutive appearance for Jennings, a 30-year-old software developer from Salt Lake City. Until fall 2003, there was a five-day win-limit for "Jeopardy!" contestants; now there is no limit to how long they can continue on the show as long as they keep winning.

The show also managed to tie with "Wheel of Fortune" for the first time this season, with both shows sitting in the No. 1 spot in the overall syndication rankings for the week.

"Wheel of Fortune," meanwhile, was down 1% from the previous week. Among other game shows, "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" was down 6% to a 3.4, and "Family Feud" was down 17% to a 1.9.

Elsewhere in syndication, most of the other shows were either down or flat for the week, which included the Fourth of July holiday and preemptions for NBC's roughly 30 hours of coverage of the Wimbledon (news - web sites) tennis tournament. "The Oprah Winfrey Show" was still the No. 1 talker with a 5.2, but that figure was down 20% from the previous week, when the show saw a small boost with an appearance from President Clinton (news - web sites) to promote his new memoir, "My Life."

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

[korme]

So, where has this guy been all the years that Jeopardy has been running?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Bee

I think the best chance someone has of beating him is to get a couple of the daily doubles to keep pace and then get the Final Jeopardy question right when he misses it. I know they tape 5 shows a day, but does anyone know if they tape 5 shows every day or are there breaks between tapings? The pace might get to him as well...

I think someone hitting two daily doubles (and wagering heavily on them) is the only real chance anyone has.