OT: NWN Persistent Worlds - Page 4

Fritz · 05-02-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
I have a general D&D 3E question since I sold my player manual a while back... I think it would be really cool for my druid to wield a scythe (I don't even know if its a good weapon, but a druid with a scythe seems cool to me), but its an exotic weapon and druids can never get that proficiency. If I gain a level as a fighter, can I take that weapon proficiency and use a scythe or I am I forever limited to "druid" weapons no matter how I multiclass my character?

daim, you should be able to get exotic without doing that. First you must take the "martial" proficiency, then you should be able to take exotic.

better to take a level of figher though. You gain access to all regular weapons, and all armor and shileds right away

Fritz · 05-02-2003, 11:07 PM

The other night I got Daim killed, and tonight it was critch. My rampage against the FOBL is on.

Dan, you're next.

Fritz · 05-02-2003, 11:08 PM

super dola

6th level is suck ass for a wizard

Daimyo · 05-02-2003, 11:11 PM

I'm going to be heading into Avlis now in case you're still around fritz.

Critch · 05-02-2003, 11:40 PM

One minute I'm heading towards the mines with Fritz and Quik, Fritz talking about "protecting" me, next minute I'm running around heaven in my underwear having been ripped to shreds by a big kitty and some of it's skeleton friends.

The return journey to reclaim our bodies was much more successful though..

Definetly much more fun as a multiplayer game.

Godzilla Blitz · 05-03-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
The other night I got Daim killed, and tonight it was critch. My rampage against the FOBL is on.

Dan, you're next.

I was going to make a post about not being experienced at D & D, and that maybe I would be a liability, but I'm relieved now that I read this.

I'm sure I can get lots of people killed. Matter of fact, I bet I'm good at it.

Calis · 05-03-2003, 12:07 AM

Man, I might have to give this a go after all, I really enjoyed the SP mods and such for NWN, I've never got into MP yet, maybe this will be the push I need to start, sounds like a blast.

Fritz · 05-03-2003, 01:14 AM

Wierdness

I was roaming the docks when I came across a body. I checked it out and it turned out to be Critch, but Critch was not on. Looking at the stuff on the body, I am sure that it is the missing critch body from the displacer mines. Of course I looted it.

Critch, I had to sell your stuff because I am not strong enough to carry it all for very long. I owe you about 500gp.

Daimyo · 05-03-2003, 01:52 AM

hmm.. looks like the server crashed almost as soon as we entered the sewers...

Anthony · 05-03-2003, 02:49 AM

man, i can't wait for SWG. who here is planning on getting the game. i just don't know if Hell Atlantic is a nice Star Wars name, so i'm still thinking what it'll be.

QuikSand · 05-03-2003, 07:02 AM

I think I'm going to start a thread in the dynasty section - for in-game discussions about things to do, and places to go in Avlis.

Thomkal · 05-03-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
The other night I got Daim killed, and tonight it was critch. My rampage against the FOBL is on.

Dan, you're next.

Fritz,

The Gods know that I'd like to give you that chance, but I have not been able to get into Avlis or other servers since the time I briefly spoke to you in game. Get all the way to the point where the game is loading the starting area for my cleric and boom the monitor goes blank, and I have to reboot as mentioned in the post above.

I think the Gods don't want me to play in Avlis.

KWhit · 05-03-2003, 10:51 AM

I've had trouble too. The last 3 times I actually connected to Avlis, I had a crash to desktop. This never happened in the singleplayer game, so I don't get it. I'm going to keep trying but it's getting frustrating.

Daimyo · 05-03-2003, 11:12 AM

For the people having troubles, did you install the extra files required for Avlis that Quik and Fritz listed above?

http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/hakpack...79582033.shtml

Anthony · 05-03-2003, 04:51 PM

i broke down and picked up this game. submitted my application. i think i'm gonna try being an Elven Paladin. i'm gonna screw around a bit on the gamespy MP and get my feet wet.

Chief Rum · 05-03-2003, 06:08 PM

Hey, this all looks pretty sharp. Wish I didn't avoid the thread for 2-3 weeks. I had a choice of Morrowind or NWN last year and went with Morrowind (I don't regret that decision, BTW).

But this sounds like a lot of fun, especially on a well-run server. I have never gotten into Evercrack or the other MMORPs, though, so if I did this it would be a completely new experience, if yoy guys can handle a total MP newbie.

Anyway, how much is this game going for now? I am working on a budget, of course.

Chief Rum

Godzilla Blitz · 05-03-2003, 07:13 PM

Chief: The extent of my online experience is about two hours worth of Diablo I, so I'm in the same boat.

I got the game on Ebay for $23.50, including shipping. There are a lot of copies for sale there and it seems like they are going for about $20 plus shipping. I think GoGamer is selling new copies for $29.99, but every other place I checked was a disappointing $39.99.

Fritz · 05-03-2003, 10:09 PM

Rum, Blitz

I had never done any of the "fantasy" online gaming. The ONLY thing I dont like about this one is the server crash ( a few times a night) and occasional bug.

Most folks will give you a hand when you need one.

Godzilla Blitz · 05-05-2003, 12:10 AM

Spent an hour tonight reading some of the Avlis forum threads. Some interesting discussions over there, especially for someone who hasn't played any pen & paper roleplaying. One of the things that I kept running into is the idea of truly "roleplaying" your character, in other words, playing your game character in line with his/her stats, alignment, and attributes, and not just wandering around playing as yourself.

I was wondering, how much does everyone here try to truly "roleplay" their character?

One of the discussions that I found interesting in this regard was about roleplaying intelligence, charisma, and wisdom. On example (taken from the the thread that I linked to at the bottom of this post):

If you character is a moron, but you the player, see a solution to a problem before other members of your party do, do you solve the problem for your party? The basic idea is that while you as a player may have made an insight into how to solve the problem, there is little likelihood that your character would, and if you solve the problem for your party, you are "playing out of character".

Interesting stuff, for a newbie, and I was curious as to how everyone else is approaching the concept.

This will take you to the Discussion on Role-Playing Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma

Fritz · 05-05-2003, 06:37 AM

GB, I have seen discussions like that brfore. What becomes impossible to overcome is your natural limitations. Sure, you can dumb down to rolepaly, but you can not incease your RL abilities to match the ones you play. So I think it is a wash.

I have been in a party or two that seems to equate role with roll and they use the damn dice function all the itime. errrrrr

I have a character guideline for my gnone and I stick to that, mostly.

Daimyo · 05-05-2003, 10:29 AM

In some regards I think that makes wizards a challenge to role play well because in general a wizard will be much smarter than the person behind the wizard. Same with charisma... if you're a naturally shy person or someone who lacks tact or "people skills" its tough to roleplay a character with lots of charisma.

Maybe that's why most people tend toward fighter types. Its extremely easy to roleplay STR, DEX, and CON.

Bonegavel · 05-05-2003, 02:38 PM

I finally reached 2nd level thanks to Quik! I stupidly purchased the Medium Rat Pack and wasted 363 gp before finding out it is broken in the game. After that, I picked up a few of the working rat packs and they really give you tons of experience and a decent reward at the end. I can't wait until i am ready to "role" with the group.

Fritz · 05-05-2003, 02:42 PM

Last night I noticed that all the rat packs seem to have been replaced with just one type.

KWhit · 05-05-2003, 02:49 PM

Where do you find the ratpacks?

Thomkal · 05-05-2003, 03:33 PM

You can buy them from the seller in the adventurer's guild in the marketplace-the building next to the boy who has the fire beetle quest-south central part of the map. The seller is off to your right as you enter in the bar/tavern area.

KWhit · 05-05-2003, 03:34 PM

Cool. Thanks Thom.

Fritz · 05-05-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
Cool. Thanks Thom.

use care when selecting a location to launch them

Fritz · 05-05-2003, 05:47 PM

Anyone have a clue why my characters do not show up? Is anyone getting this?

Critch · 05-05-2003, 05:52 PM

I've just signed on and mine is showing up ok, so it's not affecting me. Or effecting me. Never remember which is right.

Daimyo · 05-05-2003, 08:06 PM

My character is gone as well. THey had a server crash this weekend. Hopefully it will be restored soon (although you have to ask them to do it for you).

Godzilla Blitz · 05-08-2003, 02:53 PM

Game arrived yesterday. Installed, patched, downloaded hak files, logged in, and walked around about in the inn for a few minutes. Everything seemed to work fine. Logged off and played the single player tutorial for a while to get a feel for the interface, which seems pretty easy to use.

Quick question:

Could someone tell me where and when it is considered proper etiquette to log off of Avlis? I imagine you're not supposed to just log off in the middle of a fight or a conversation, but are there only special places where you should log off? Can you just log off anywhere if you are alone? Thanks!

Chief Rum · 05-08-2003, 08:26 PM

Hey all,

I finally caved and went and got this today. I haven't installed it yet, or downloaded the patches or even applied for a password to the server yet, but I thought I would let you all know.

I'm going to go back to the beginning of this thread and find out how to apply, so I can get that apparently lengthy process started. How long does it usually take for them to get back to you? And is there anything I should avoid putting on this application (like "I like to kill other PCs for fun" or "I want to undermine the game's power structure", etc.

)?

Chief Rum

QuikSand · 05-08-2003, 09:48 PM

GB - The only warnings I have seen are not to log off during action... don't log off as a cop out to avlid dying when youre in trouble... play it out. Other than that, I just suggest being discreet, use common sense. Don't want people blinking in and out all the time.

Godzilla Blitz · 05-08-2003, 11:07 PM

QS: Thank you, sir. I played about thirty minutes this afternoon and got a better sense of what's going on as well. Just walked around in the town for a bit. My first job was from a little boy. I got hired to go get some holy water. I feel like such a hero.

Now I have two errands to run, but can't seem to find anything. Game looks interesting, though.

Chief: I don't think they're picky, but claiming you are 15 years old and applying in leet speak are probably not the best strategy. I left a few of the answers blank. They got back to me in a day.

WSUCougar · 05-08-2003, 11:28 PM

Despite my app being accepted, I'm having no luck connecting to the server(s) with the password(s) I was given...

Bee · 05-09-2003, 07:28 AM

I'm still waiting on the password.

How long does it take?

QuikSand · 05-09-2003, 07:39 AM

Dunno, Bee - mine came after one day, but it seems varied.

Thomkal · 05-09-2003, 08:06 AM

Bee,

Took me three tries at the application before I got a response. Did it through Internet Explorer instead of AOL, and that got me my password at last.

Bee · 05-09-2003, 08:15 AM

Well, it's been a few days...guess I'll try submitting the application again.

Chief Rum · 05-09-2003, 06:02 PM

So can anyone give me a list of patches and what not to add to this game? I went to the NWN Community Web Page and found out about the Update button, so I am having that done right now (my guess is that is the main way to patch this).

But I am reading here in this thread about other things to download, too. What are these other things and where do I get them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Chief Rum

P.S. Still waiting on my password. Hopefully I'll get it soon.

Fritz · 05-09-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chief Rum
So can anyone give me a list of patches and what not to add to this game? I went to the NWN Community Web Page and found out about the Update button, so I am having that done right now (my guess is that is the main way to patch this).

But I am reading here in this thread about other things to download, too. What are these other things and where do I get them? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Chief Rum

P.S. Still waiting on my password. Hopefully I'll get it soon.

the updater on NWN will get you to 1.29, that is the first part.

then, add all the "hak packs" linked here :

http://avlis.blackparadox.com/downloads.php

05-02-2003, 11:07 PM	#152
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	The other night I got Daim killed, and tonight it was critch. My rampage against the FOBL is on. Dan, you're next. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-02-2003, 11:08 PM	#153
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	super dola 6th level is suck ass for a wizard __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-03-2003, 01:14 AM	#158
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Wierdness I was roaming the docks when I came across a body. I checked it out and it turned out to be Critch, but Critch was not on. Looking at the stuff on the body, I am sure that it is the missing critch body from the displacer mines. Of course I looted it. Critch, I had to sell your stuff because I am not strong enough to carry it all for very long. I owe you about 500gp. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-03-2003, 11:12 AM	#164
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	For the people having troubles, did you install the extra files required for Avlis that Quik and Fritz listed above? http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/hakpack...79582033.shtml Last edited by Daimyo : 05-03-2003 at 11:13 AM.

05-03-2003, 06:08 PM	#166
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Hey, this all looks pretty sharp. Wish I didn't avoid the thread for 2-3 weeks. I had a choice of Morrowind or NWN last year and went with Morrowind (I don't regret that decision, BTW). But this sounds like a lot of fun, especially on a well-run server. I have never gotten into Evercrack or the other MMORPs, though, so if I did this it would be a completely new experience, if yoy guys can handle a total MP newbie. Anyway, how much is this game going for now? I am working on a budget, of course. Chief Rum __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

05-02-2003, 11:11 PM	#154
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I'm going to be heading into Avlis now in case you're still around fritz.

05-02-2003, 11:40 PM	#155
Critch lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Herndon, VA	One minute I'm heading towards the mines with Fritz and Quik, Fritz talking about "protecting" me, next minute I'm running around heaven in my underwear having been ripped to shreds by a big kitty and some of it's skeleton friends. The return journey to reclaim our bodies was much more successful though.. Definetly much more fun as a multiplayer game.

05-03-2003, 12:07 AM	#157
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Man, I might have to give this a go after all, I really enjoyed the SP mods and such for NWN, I've never got into MP yet, maybe this will be the push I need to start, sounds like a blast.

05-03-2003, 01:52 AM	#159
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	hmm.. looks like the server crashed almost as soon as we entered the sewers...

05-03-2003, 02:49 AM	#160
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	man, i can't wait for SWG. who here is planning on getting the game. i just don't know if Hell Atlantic is a nice Star Wars name, so i'm still thinking what it'll be.

05-03-2003, 07:02 AM	#161
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I think I'm going to start a thread in the dynasty section - for in-game discussions about things to do, and places to go in Avlis.

05-03-2003, 10:51 AM	#163
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I've had trouble too. The last 3 times I actually connected to Avlis, I had a crash to desktop. This never happened in the singleplayer game, so I don't get it. I'm going to keep trying but it's getting frustrating.

05-03-2003, 04:51 PM	#165
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i broke down and picked up this game. submitted my application. i think i'm gonna try being an Elven Paladin. i'm gonna screw around a bit on the gamespy MP and get my feet wet.

05-03-2003, 07:13 PM	#167
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Chief: The extent of my online experience is about two hours worth of Diablo I, so I'm in the same boat. I got the game on Ebay for $23.50, including shipping. There are a lot of copies for sale there and it seems like they are going for about $20 plus shipping. I think GoGamer is selling new copies for $29.99, but every other place I checked was a disappointing $39.99. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

05-03-2003, 10:09 PM	#168
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Rum, Blitz I had never done any of the "fantasy" online gaming. The ONLY thing I dont like about this one is the server crash ( a few times a night) and occasional bug. Most folks will give you a hand when you need one. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-05-2003, 12:10 AM	#169
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Spent an hour tonight reading some of the Avlis forum threads. Some interesting discussions over there, especially for someone who hasn't played any pen & paper roleplaying. One of the things that I kept running into is the idea of truly "roleplaying" your character, in other words, playing your game character in line with his/her stats, alignment, and attributes, and not just wandering around playing as yourself. I was wondering, how much does everyone here try to truly "roleplay" their character? One of the discussions that I found interesting in this regard was about roleplaying intelligence, charisma, and wisdom. On example (taken from the the thread that I linked to at the bottom of this post): If you character is a moron, but you the player, see a solution to a problem before other members of your party do, do you solve the problem for your party? The basic idea is that while you as a player may have made an insight into how to solve the problem, there is little likelihood that your character would, and if you solve the problem for your party, you are "playing out of character". Interesting stuff, for a newbie, and I was curious as to how everyone else is approaching the concept. This will take you to the Discussion on Role-Playing Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma Last edited by Godzilla Blitz : 05-05-2003 at 12:12 AM.

05-05-2003, 06:37 AM	#170
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	GB, I have seen discussions like that brfore. What becomes impossible to overcome is your natural limitations. Sure, you can dumb down to rolepaly, but you can not incease your RL abilities to match the ones you play. So I think it is a wash. I have been in a party or two that seems to equate role with roll and they use the damn dice function all the itime. errrrrr I have a character guideline for my gnone and I stick to that, mostly. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 05-05-2003 at 06:37 AM.

05-05-2003, 10:29 AM	#171
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	In some regards I think that makes wizards a challenge to role play well because in general a wizard will be much smarter than the person behind the wizard. Same with charisma... if you're a naturally shy person or someone who lacks tact or "people skills" its tough to roleplay a character with lots of charisma. Maybe that's why most people tend toward fighter types. Its extremely easy to roleplay STR, DEX, and CON. Last edited by Daimyo : 05-05-2003 at 10:30 AM.

05-05-2003, 02:38 PM	#172
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	I finally reached 2nd level thanks to Quik! I stupidly purchased the Medium Rat Pack and wasted 363 gp before finding out it is broken in the game. After that, I picked up a few of the working rat packs and they really give you tons of experience and a decent reward at the end. I can't wait until i am ready to "role" with the group. __________________

05-05-2003, 02:42 PM	#173
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Last night I noticed that all the rat packs seem to have been replaced with just one type. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-05-2003, 02:49 PM	#174
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Where do you find the ratpacks?

05-05-2003, 03:33 PM	#175
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	You can buy them from the seller in the adventurer's guild in the marketplace-the building next to the boy who has the fire beetle quest-south central part of the map. The seller is off to your right as you enter in the bar/tavern area. __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! Last edited by Thomkal : 05-05-2003 at 03:33 PM.

05-05-2003, 03:34 PM	#176
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Cool. Thanks Thom.

05-05-2003, 05:47 PM	#178
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Anyone have a clue why my characters do not show up? Is anyone getting this? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-05-2003, 05:52 PM	#179
Critch lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Herndon, VA	I've just signed on and mine is showing up ok, so it's not affecting me. Or effecting me. Never remember which is right.

05-05-2003, 08:06 PM	#180
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	My character is gone as well. THey had a server crash this weekend. Hopefully it will be restored soon (although you have to ask them to do it for you).

05-08-2003, 02:53 PM	#181
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Game arrived yesterday. Installed, patched, downloaded hak files, logged in, and walked around about in the inn for a few minutes. Everything seemed to work fine. Logged off and played the single player tutorial for a while to get a feel for the interface, which seems pretty easy to use. Quick question: Could someone tell me where and when it is considered proper etiquette to log off of Avlis? I imagine you're not supposed to just log off in the middle of a fight or a conversation, but are there only special places where you should log off? Can you just log off anywhere if you are alone? Thanks! __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

05-08-2003, 08:26 PM	#182
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Hey all, I finally caved and went and got this today. I haven't installed it yet, or downloaded the patches or even applied for a password to the server yet, but I thought I would let you all know. I'm going to go back to the beginning of this thread and find out how to apply, so I can get that apparently lengthy process started. How long does it usually take for them to get back to you? And is there anything I should avoid putting on this application (like "I like to kill other PCs for fun" or "I want to undermine the game's power structure", etc. )? Chief Rum __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

05-08-2003, 09:48 PM	#183
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	GB - The only warnings I have seen are not to log off during action... don't log off as a cop out to avlid dying when youre in trouble... play it out. Other than that, I just suggest being discreet, use common sense. Don't want people blinking in and out all the time.

05-08-2003, 11:07 PM	#184
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	QS: Thank you, sir. I played about thirty minutes this afternoon and got a better sense of what's going on as well. Just walked around in the town for a bit. My first job was from a little boy. I got hired to go get some holy water. I feel like such a hero. Now I have two errands to run, but can't seem to find anything. Game looks interesting, though. Chief: I don't think they're picky, but claiming you are 15 years old and applying in leet speak are probably not the best strategy. I left a few of the answers blank. They got back to me in a day. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

05-08-2003, 11:28 PM	#185
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Despite my app being accepted, I'm having no luck connecting to the server(s) with the password(s) I was given... __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

05-09-2003, 07:28 AM	#186
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I'm still waiting on the password. How long does it take?

05-09-2003, 07:39 AM	#187
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Dunno, Bee - mine came after one day, but it seems varied.

05-09-2003, 08:06 AM	#188
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Bee, Took me three tries at the application before I got a response. Did it through Internet Explorer instead of AOL, and that got me my password at last. __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time!

05-09-2003, 08:15 AM	#189
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Well, it's been a few days...guess I'll try submitting the application again.