Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[Poli]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Persons selling their services in the Forum

Gallus Clarus, ex-legionnaire
Titus Ludius, ex-legionnaire
Durus Pimpus, dealer in sexual slaves
Animus Sentus, person rumored to be affiliated with the Priesthood
Furius Lucius, former warlord of Gaul, enslaved and now freed
Lexus Postus, owner of many horses
Blakus Fortunatus, owner of many horses

and of course,
Swaggus Swaggus
Ardentus Enthusiastus

I like what the Warlord says. I'll go ahead and announce this. I will be trying to obtain the services of Gallus Clarus.

[Grammaticus]

Grammaticus Atticus sues Autumnus Leavus

He is one wealth scale above me, so likely cannot hire a better lawyer than me, hopefully increasing my chances of winning and gaining some wealth. In that group, he has made some comments about randomizing the suing process, which could be an attempt to hide the trail of the traitors among us. Seems like a good candidate right now.

[Grammaticus]

My guess on the services are:

ex-legionnaire - likely a chance to kill someone or protect you. Killing for power, etc. was pretty common in those days
dealer in sex slaves - maybe it affords you a chance to block someone else for the day, role/action blocker
affiliated w/priesthood - maybe a seer or soothsayer attempt
warlord of gaul - assassin or bodyguard who kills an attacker (berserker like)
owner of horses - lets you escape an action against you

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Grammaticus Atticus sues Autumnus Leavus

He is one wealth scale above me, so likely cannot hire a better lawyer than me, hopefully increasing my chances of winning and gaining some wealth. In that group, he has made some comments about randomizing the suing process, which could be an attempt to hide the trail of the traitors among us. Seems like a good candidate right now.

I don't mind being sued, and I'm not going to attempt to hire a laywer. But for clarification, I don't know if your reasoning makes sense. I think being at a higher wealth level would let me hire a better lawyer. Right?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Which I think is a bad, bad idea. Once we get further along and learn who is important, and who is, well, not, we *need* a good working knowledge of the tools we have to protect them and/or snuff out the traitors. Since none of us can really say for sure what those things do (some of them are pretty obvious sounding, but others are not), I think the early days are our best opportunity to get that info. It's not like any of us can justify saying "But I NEED the Horse Seller today!" this early.

That makes sense to me. If we each agree to pursue a service and then relate to the Senate what happened, we will know a lot more.

I will attempt to hire the services of one of the horse traders and report on my success.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't mind being sued, and I'm not going to attempt to hire a laywer. But for clarification, I don't know if your reasoning makes sense. I think being at a higher wealth level would let me hire a better lawyer. Right?

Well, there are only 2 named lawyers and st.cronin said all the rest are generic. That implies equal skill. I would say with greater than 2 of the top tier wealth senators getting sued, the 2 named laywers will not be available to the second wealth tier. Therefore, I do not think anyone sued in that second tier will have an advantage in quality of representation.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, there are only 2 named lawyers and st.cronin said all the rest are generic. That implies equal skill. I would say with greater than 2 of the top tier wealth senators getting sued, the 2 named laywers will not be available to the second wealth tier. Therefore, I do not think anyone sued in that second tier will have an advantage in quality of representation.

I would tend to agree with this analysis. It seems like I'm stupid if I don't bid on a service, but am having a great deal of trouble deciding which one to do giving my somewhat middling/below average wealth.

[KWhit]

I have bid on the services of a horse trader.

[Ironhead]

I'm okay with the lawsuit against me from the perspective that I have nothing to hide. At this time though I am leaning towards not randomly suing anyone myself until I have more information regarding the following things:

a) How are lawsuits won and lost (random.org?)?
b) What are the negative consequences of suing someone and losing?

We aren't going to have any answers to those questions until at least the second day. For all I know I could currently be the 4th wealthiest man in Rome, which would put me in an excellent position to acquire services and aid the Republic. It makes perfect sense for information gathering purposes for the Senators of ordinary wealth to sue the people in power because even if they lose, the village doesn't lose anything.

[ImTheCrew]

late check in..... one of the wealthiest in rome

[DaddyTorgo]

KWhit issued a barrage of lawsuits...could he be trying to clog the court? just a thought

i'll go for the pleasurable women if no one else wants to. spend some of my limited cash there. at least i'll get some good fun out of it

[path12]

I've placed a bid with the priest.

[Neon_Chaos]

Geez. Lawsuits. Complicated stuff. Whatever happened back when it was a simple game of werewolf?

What do these guys do?

Gallus Clarus, ex-legionnaire
Titus Ludius, ex-legionnaire
Durus Pimpus, dealer in sexual slaves
Animus Sentus, person rumored to be affiliated with the Priesthood
Furius Lucius, former warlord of Gaul, enslaved and now freed
Lexus Postus, owner of many horses
Blakus Fortunatus, owner of many horses

and of course,
Swaggus Swaggus
Ardentus Enthusiastus

For Roman Senators, we sure are clueless about EVERYTHING everyone else does. Well, I know I am.

Ok, so we sue each other, then what happens? How do they work? How do you win? lose? Etc.?

Bah. I'm suing Barkeep.

NEON CHAOS sues BARKEEP

How do we weed out the baddies?

methinks st. cronin rushed this game out too early.

[Peregrine]

PEREGRINUS sues PATH12

Might as well get the ball rolling with the lawsuits.

Also, I'd like to say that without any information, I'd look at the consuls arresting anyone as very suspicious at this point.

[Barkeep49]

I'm bothered with these last two lawsuits presented without reason.

[Poli]

Would you like to sue them for it? Need a good lawyer?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

KWhit issued a barrage of lawsuits...could he be trying to clog the court? just a thought

Nope. Just trying to gain information.

As I said earlier, I welcome lawsuits (or seer scans, if they are available). I'm loyal to Rome.

[Peregrine]

Why's the bother Barkeep? I've announced multiple times that suing everyone is the way to win. We have to find the traitors, and that seems to be the best way.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Also, I'd like to say that without any information, I'd look at the consuls arresting anyone as very suspicious at this point.

This brings up the old "lynch to gain information" argument. I would have to believe that the Tarqs have some way to be able to thin the herd. As Romans, the only way we have a chance to catch a Tarq is to throw them off the cliff. We can't do that without them first being arrested. So if the consuls don't issue an arrest warrant, then there is no chance for us to execute a Tarq.

I would expect there are ways to gain information outside of voting records - potentially through lawsuits, probably through the services for hire - but do we want for those results to come in and then go through a two-day process to remove the clearly identified Tarq?

If we don't like the two people they arrest, then we don't have to issue a vote, correct? Going from memory, a majority needs to vote for a candidate for him to splash into the water at the end of the "cycle" (not day or night, going to take some time to get used to that).

[hoopsguy]

From Cronin, post #2:

Since a majority vote is required, it is possible for both players to go free

[st.cronin]

The lawsuits will be resolved on their merits. I believe the only thing random.org needs to be consulted for is if the Tribune post should become empty.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

PEREGRINUS sues PATH12

Might as well get the ball rolling with the lawsuits.

Also, I'd like to say that without any information, I'd look at the consuls arresting anyone as very suspicious at this point.

I will not allow such scare tactics stand in my way of presenting people before the senate for judgement. If the Senate declares there to be not enough proof of treason to throw an arrested senator off of the rock, then that is the voice of the people. I shall not stand dormant in my elected post when the people expect action.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Why's the bother Barkeep? I've announced multiple times that suing everyone is the way to win. We have to find the traitors, and that seems to be the best way.

I apologize, but I must have missed where you said this multiple times before I brought up the idea. I apologize for taking credit for your great idea!

[Alan T]

In case anyone is missing my tongue in cheek response to the last part of my last post.. this was the day 1 interaction between us.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Also I am curious to what reasons many of us would have to sue another for. I don't have any information that would indicate personal conflicts with others on an individual level. As far as I am aware, its the senate looking to keep ourselves free from our former opressors. If we end up finding someone not loyal to the republic's cause we simply would throw them off the rock, not bring up an individual lawsuit.

So does anyone have any thoughts on what reasons or goals would be behind personal lawsuits?

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Alan, money is another thing that needs explanation. What good are the services that the various vendors provide? I guess st. cronin will explain that in time. Apparently lawsuits are just to make yourself richer, but again, with no knowledge of what money is good for, it's hard to see why we'd bother. As for Tarquinians as DaddyTorgo mentioned, I have no idea who they are or why we want to kill them.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Ok, I went back and found the info on the lawsuit stuff. Missed this in my hasty reading..

So with what it says here, there being a small chance of some information on treason coming out, is there any good group reason to not have as many lawsuits as possible? Sure, you risk an individual risk of some negative consequence to your person, but its for the betterment of the republic in the long haul I would think...

Any thoughts on us all working to try to put forth as many personal lawsuits as we can in hopes we might have indications of treason pop from some (or any) of them?

[Peregrine]

What's the deal Alan T? I wasn't taking credit for anyone's idea, I just stated that I had said before that we should start suing everyone.

[Peregrine]

And yes, I can see how you'd need to leave out my last post of our interaction, post #39, where I stated:

"With so many people it will take a while, but we could just keep suing everyone until treason is revealed."

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

What's the deal Alan T? I wasn't taking credit for anyone's idea, I just stated that I had said before that we should start suing everyone.

Don't mind me, its just my natural cynicism showing. I mostly just object to your comments that appear to be trying to stall the senate from finding treacherous members. My arresting someone does not throw anyone off of the rock, so the only bad move on my part would be inaction. Your comment states the exact opposite of my belief.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

methinks st. cronin rushed this game out too early.

If some of the veterans are feeling disoriented, well, that was one of my goals in designing this game.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

And yes, I can see how you'd need to leave out my last post of our interaction, post #39, where I stated:

"With so many people it will take a while, but we could just keep suing everyone until treason is revealed."

I never said that you didn't say it! Just alot of people seem to be making claim to the idea! Just my natural distrust of anyone who jumps on one of my ideas immediately.

[Peregrine]

No, what I am saying is that unless it is revealed that the traitors have some way of killing us (which they might, but because of the lack of rules we have no idea) we should proceed along the safest possible course, which is lawsuits. If people start dying then of course we are welcome to consider executing people, but before that, why would we do so without need, when we can discover the enemies through lawsuits?

[DaddyTorgo]

woot woot

[hoopsguy]

Figured I would publish some info on the Tarquinians I found at Wikipedia. A little lesson in ancient Roman history ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Tarquinius_Superbus

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If some of the veterans are feeling disoriented, well, that was one of my goals in designing this game.

Just my opinion, st. cronin, but I feel like you should have provided more information if that is the case. Right now we have so little information that I can't help but feel the rules are broken, especially in the case of the mysterious services that no one knows anything about.

You can disorient people plenty and still have a full ruleset, IMO.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Just my opinion, st. cronin, but I feel like you should have provided more information if that is the case. Right now we have so little information that I can't help but feel the rules are broken, especially in the case of the mysterious services that no one knows anything about.

You can disorient people plenty and still have a full ruleset, IMO.

Patience grasshopper.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Might as well get the ball rolling with the lawsuits.

Umm... I think KWhit got there before you with the ball rolling.

The suing thing seems like the way to go, but we're now going to have to sit and wait to see how many cases are tried a day and what exactly happens with these things. I'd be surprised if it's a super effective way of finding the wolfies but we might get lucky and for want of any better information then it's the right way to go.

I've only got limited computer/interynet access until tomorrow morning (my time - ie middle of the night for you lot). I haven't really had time to read everything through carefully and, looking at the clock, I'm not really going to have time to do so.

As stated before I will be looking to vote for people who don't seem to be contributing much for the first three days or so, irrespective of who looks guilty. In big games like this it seems that the safest course for the wolfies is to avoid the spotlight and let the villagers who actually say something build up a case against each other based on that. So if you want to avoid my super-powerful 4% of the vote (or whatever it is) then say lots.

PS. Is this Marc "Sports Interactive" Vaughan Passa is filling in for? Scratch what I said then, I know who I'm voting for. He's, almost literally, forced me to lose months of valuable time playing C/FM.

[Tyrith]

I'm staying out of this lawsuit mess. Honestly, I doubt that we're going to be allowed to game the game quite this easily. Feel free to sue me; it will be no loss, as I am the vanilla's vanilla. However, for now I'm going to let everyone else have it at while I try to slowly figure out what the heck is going on.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Figured I would publish some info on the Tarquinians I found at Wikipedia. A little lesson in ancient Roman history ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Tarquinius_Superbus

The wolfs must be very embarrassed to have their cause linked to someone called Tarquin. Not exactly the coolest villain name out there.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

The suing thing seems like the way to go, but we're now going to have to sit and wait to see how many cases are tried a day and what exactly happens with these things. I'd be surprised if it's a super effective way of finding the wolfies but we might get lucky and for want of any better information then it's the right way to go.

This is a better way of saying about what I'm thinking right now.

Cronin, are these lawsuits retractable?

If they aren't, we might not want to generate a giant backlog in case we have a better reason to file lawsuits later...also, there are negative consequences involved to losing lawsuits, so I wouldn't want all the good guys to go too lawsuit crazy, because it will either show who is okay with backlash or, if we keep generating lawsuits, who feels they are too valuable to risk the backlash.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, there are only 2 named lawyers and st.cronin said all the rest are generic. That implies equal skill. I would say with greater than 2 of the top tier wealth senators getting sued, the 2 named laywers will not be available to the second wealth tier. Therefore, I do not think anyone sued in that second tier will have an advantage in quality of representation.

Unless someone actually hires the lawyers though, they won't get their representation. I would certainly like to hear it if anyone is planning on hiring a lawyer to defend themselves. I'm not.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm bothered with these last two lawsuits presented without reason.

Feel free to sue me back Barkeep. It was just a stab in the dark.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The lawsuits will be resolved on their merits. I believe the only thing random.org needs to be consulted for is if the Tribune post should become empty.

Awesome. Clearly mine will be seen first.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Cronin, are these lawsuits retractable?

A suit can be withdrawn any time before it goes to the courts. To explain how this works, I will give an example:

player A sues player B on day 1

day 1 deadline, the courts announce they will hear player A's suit against player B on day 2

At that point, you may no longer withdraw the suit.

[Poli]

Can you fail to show up for your court appearance?

[Poli]

Are bench warrants issued?

[Poli]

Can I sue for more rules?

[st.cronin]

no, no, and no

[Poli]

Can I increase my rates?

[Poli]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

no, no, and no

I object!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

No, what I am saying is that unless it is revealed that the traitors have some way of killing us (which they might, but because of the lack of rules we have no idea) we should proceed along the safest possible course, which is lawsuits. If people start dying then of course we are welcome to consider executing people, but before that, why would we do so without need, when we can discover the enemies through lawsuits?

I still plan on finding someone to arrest, and allow the senate be the voice on whether or not someone is suspicious or not. If you find that suspicious, then thats fine with me. Maybe you will be lucky and be the one arrested and actually have a reason to find it suspicious if you are actually innocent

[Poli]

How about the NPCs? Can I sue them?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I object!

YOU'RE out of order!