Paris (And Now Mali)(And Now Orlando)

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Sorry if I missed it in the thread, but the various news networks are reporting that an American is amongst the dead in Paris-23 year old student studying in Paris, from Cal Tech I think.

Graduated from a HS about 5 miles from where I live. Grew up in the city where I teach and college in CSULB.

Sad

[Ben E Lou]

Has it come out how the one refugee connected with local/semi-local network in less than 2 months? Does that indicate a larger network at work that they are a part of, or is it really that easy to infiltrate these guys?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting read.

Confessions of an ISIS Spy - The Daily Beast

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Has it come out how the one refugee connected with local/semi-local network in less than 2 months? Does that indicate a larger network at work that they are a part of, or is it really that easy to infiltrate these guys?

In the age of technology ? Besides, the "leader" of that sub-network (i guess that fits better ?) is currently in Syria training and recruiting and from what i read has been for a while. Not that difficult to find that group if you have precise instructions where and how to contact them, even as a "refugee".

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by whomario

the "leader" of that sub-network (i guess that fits better ?) is currently in Syria training and recruiting and from what i read has been for a while

Ok. That's what I was looking for. If that's the case, then that's the connection. Even in the age of technology, it's not like he could just tweet "Heading to France. Any friends of ISIS wanna hook up?" He'd have to have had instructions on accessing whatever dark corners of the internet they use to connect.

Speaking of that, Anonymous has said that they're joining the fight against ISIS. I wonder if it could be any more than just a symbolic gesture. Do we think that they could uncover stuff that the government can't?

[Easy Mac]

Doubtful. They'll probably only uncover things the government knows, but doesn't want/didn't feel like releasing.

[whomario]

Wasn´t intended to make fun of you, came off a little more snippy than intended

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Speaking of that, Anonymous has said that they're joining the fight against ISIS. I wonder if it could be any more than just a symbolic gesture. Do we think that they could uncover stuff that the government can't?

They will definitely have a different perspective and less regulations (is a government allowed and/or equipped to disrupt communication channels rather than observing them ?). I could imagine them thinking about uncovering stuff or looking at it from angles the official people might not.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Ok. That's what I was looking for. If that's the case, then that's the connection. Even in the age of technology, it's not like he could just tweet "Heading to France. Any friends of ISIS wanna hook up?" He'd have to have had instructions on accessing whatever dark corners of the internet they use to connect.

Speaking of that, Anonymous has said that they're joining the fight against ISIS. I wonder if it could be any more than just a symbolic gesture. Do we think that they could uncover stuff that the government can't?

I thought they joined last year when the Charlie Hebdo attacks happened?

[molson]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I thought they joined last year when the Charlie Hebdo attacks happened?

They said they did, but that seems to have amounted to them getting Twitter to close certain accounts.

[corbes]

Perhaps someone can correct me, but I don't recall there being a peace/war distinction either in the parable or in the report from the mountaintop.

[corbes]

"Let us develop a kind of dangerous unselfishness..."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Has it come out how the one refugee connected with local/semi-local network in less than 2 months? Does that indicate a larger network at work that they are a part of, or is it really that easy to infiltrate these guys?

Well there's this method ... all you need is a PS4

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco...-plan-attacks/

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well there's this method ... all you need is a PS4

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco...-plan-attacks/

holy hell

[jeff061]

I think pretty much any kind of IP based voice applies. Xbox, PS4, Skype, TeamSpeak. Whatever. Countless text apps out there too.

I find it very bizarre PS4 is being is being singled out by the media.

It's why there is debate around whether governments should be given backdoor access into all this encrypted channels.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/calls...ncryption.html

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

holy hell

That's not new. Narco-traffickers have been using online gaming to communicate, and even using in-game funding systems for some deals, for years now. Even if the NSA is monitoring all in-game communication like they do phone calls, I assume they still run it through a keyword algorithm, then have people listen to the "relevant" ones. Just imagine what percentage of Call of Duty conversations involve usual trigger words like attack or kill or death to infidels. So you have to rely on them being stupid and messing up somewhere (which is usually good enough, like when ISIS leaves their location tags on instagram or twitter selfies), because there are just too many people, having too many conversations, to effectively monitor them without unbelievably phenomenal AI light years beyond anything public, or a much larger workforce of people listening than would ever make sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I find it very bizarre PS4 is being is being singled out by the media.

Likely because it appears to have been singled out by a Belgian government official "“PlayStation 4 is even more difficult to keep track of than WhatsApp.”

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's not new.

Right. I am aware that there are games that have the ability to talk to other players. I have never played one or seen one in action, so it's not surprising that I'm terribly uninformed about the capabilities.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Right. I am aware that there are games that have the ability to talk to other players. I have never played one or seen one in action, so it's not surprising that I'm terribly uninformed about the capabilities.

I never got into the multiplayer scene, but go to any dorm in America and you can probably find 10-20 boys playing for an hour+ a day.

It's why even though I assume the NSA etc are intercepting every form of electronic communication I make I could not care less even though I'm a pretty big privacy proponent who argues against state and local authorities getting even the current surveillance powers they have. There's just too much to sift through it's never going to actually affect me.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's just too much to sift through it's never going to actually affect me.

This'll sound conspiracy-cranky, though it's not meant to be but: I'm not sure that's the case.

Google and others have already shown that they can track you pretty easily across the web. I'm sure with the amount of money that's been dumped into the NSA for their new datacenters and general budget it's just a case of storage space and algorithms.

Whether it ends up mattering to you depends on what you think they'll do with that data.

[jeff061]

I think it's just a case of algorithms, I don't believe they have it worked out, you need it working damn near 100 percent at a granular level to prevent any given attack. But who knows.

Google tracks people willingly throwing all their information at them using products running on their servers, products designed to gather information that makes things easier for Google to achieve their goals.

[jeff061]

Also, while I'm sure the NSA can crack significantly more encryption than they let on, I suspect that requires more of a targeted approach than a dragnet/algorithm approach they take elsewhere.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Ok. That's what I was looking for. If that's the case, then that's the connection. Even in the age of technology, it's not like he could just tweet "Heading to France. Any friends of ISIS wanna hook up?" He'd have to have had instructions on accessing whatever dark corners of the internet they use to connect.

Speaking of that, Anonymous has said that they're joining the fight against ISIS. I wonder if it could be any more than just a symbolic gesture. Do we think that they could uncover stuff that the government can't?

Looks like Anonymous has started their attack:

BREAKING NEWS: 'Anonymous' Hacktivists Leak ISIS Twitter Accounts Leading to 900 Being Removed - Aunty Acid Blog

[whomario]

Is doing this publicly really effective ? Couldnt they provide the adresses and accounts quietly to “law enforcement“ (no idea who thatd be). Also im kinda afraid to think of the collateral damage theyll cause along the way in terms of false accusations/mistaken identity.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by whomario

Is doing this publicly really effective ? Couldnt they provide the adresses and accounts quietly to “law enforcement“ (no idea who thatd be). Also im kinda afraid to think of the collateral damage theyll cause along the way in terms of false accusations/mistaken identity.

That's not how Anonymous operates. They hope the public will look at the information being revealed and add additional information that authorities would not have otherwise.

[Galaril]

Geez looks like ISIS blew up a Russian commercial plane 224 killed in Egypt. Putin promises payback....shit is really about to hit the pyramids now.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Geez looks like ISIS blew up a Russian commercial plane 224 killed in Egypt. Putin promises payback....shit is really about to hit the pyramids now.

Are you talking about the airplane that crashed roughly 2 1/2 weeks ago?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Geez looks like ISIS blew up a Russian commercial plane 224 killed in Egypt. Putin promises payback....shit is really about to hit the pyramids now.

Is there a new one ? There was one last week or the week before.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

That's not how Anonymous operates. They hope the public will look at the information being revealed and add additional information that authorities would not have otherwise.

They also hope that something like this might get them a little relief down the road when they're dragged into court as will inevitably happen. It shouldn't.

Fucking scum of the earth.

[BishopMVP]

He's talking about the Halloween one, but Putin finally came out and agreed that it was likely an ISIS bomb that brought it down. So now Russia, along with France (and the US), is bombing targets in Syria, and the UK PM is attempting to do so as well.

Not much point to trying to understand the rationale of a medieval group like ISIS, but attacking Russian & French targets was a huge strategic mistake. If they'd stuck to American/British targets you'd probably still have Russia treating them as a useful pawn and running a little bit of interference at the global political level.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I thought they joined last year when the Charlie Hebdo attacks happened?

Anonymous isn't really a single organized group of people, could be different people with different plans and goals from those who acted after Charlie Hebdo.

[Castlerock]

I think this was posted here some time ago... but thought it was very interesting.

What ISIS Really Wants: What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They also hope that something like this might get them a little relief down the road when they're dragged into court as will inevitably happen. It shouldn't.

Fucking scum of the earth.

Because I always love a JiMGA take... Should FDR have declared war on Stalin and the Soviets in 1941 too?

I don't need to like or approve of "anonymous" (or that Putin guy) to accept their help vs ISIS.

[whomario]

The football friendly between Germany and the Netherlands has been canceled at the last minute due to signs pointing to an imminent attack. Allegedly (no confirmation, at all, yet) an ambulance loaded with explosives was found and the stadium is turned upside down right now.

Might well be a sick false-alarm situation, but very disturbing nontheless. (and if it is, i hope he gets taken for all his money for the cost of the operation)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Because I always love a JiMGA take... Should FDR have declared war on Stalin and the Soviets in 1941 too?

I don't need to like or approve of "anonymous" (or that Putin guy) to accept their help vs ISIS.

I didn't say don't take the intel ... but I'd like to ultimately see bullets in the heads of every Anonymous hacker no matter what they do between now & then. I don't really give a damn if they cure cancer, chronic halitosis and fallen arches.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Are you talking about the airplane that crashed roughly 2 1/2 weeks ago?

Originally Posted by Alf

Is there a new one ? There was one last week or the week before.

I just saw it pop up on the front page of the MSN news so maybe it is just the idiotic media drumming up old news for the 24 /7 news cycle

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

I think this was posted here some time ago... but thought it was very interesting.

What ISIS Really Wants: What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

This is fascinating. Also agree with this:

Many mainstream Muslim organizations have gone so far as to say the Islamic State is, in fact, un-Islamic. It is, of course, reassuring to know that the vast majority of Muslims have zero interest in replacing Hollywood movies with public executions as evening entertainment. But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

I don't get why people keep saying this isn't Islam when it in fact is part of their religion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get why people keep saying this isn't Islam when it in fact is part of their religion.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[RainMaker]

I hate using a TV show for this but Homeland had a great scene earlier in the year that summed up ISIS.

Homeland -- Quinn tells it like it is - YouTube

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is fascinating. Also agree with this:



I don't get why people keep saying this isn't Islam when it in fact is part of their religion.

It is an Islam problem, but I've met so many Muslims in the Middle East that quite literally only give a shit about supporting their families and sports that its hard to blame them all. I've worked with American Muslims in the military that were and are readily supportive of the Global War on Terror....and now I'm working with my colleagues in a a global IT company that are Muslim. I haven't detected any sort of language from any of them that would suggest this is a widespread problem.

So, I really hate to lump all Muslims together. I do get frustrated when I dont see them take action though. It's very similar to 1950's Mississippi....where most people weren't KKK and many people weren't racist....but they looked the other way out of fear of reprisal.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is fascinating. Also agree with this:

I don't get why people keep saying this isn't Islam when it in fact is part of their religion.

First off a very basic fact that, i think, often gets overlooked: Contrary to Christendom/Catholicism, Islam suffers (for lack of a better word) from a very basic difference: There is no clearly established leadership structure. There really isn´t the equivalent of what we call "the church", it is a very fluid system in constant negotation and thus very vulnerable to direct local influence and mis-use of power. Even at the local level these leadership positions are sort of filled in discourse rather than by appointment. The 2 main streams (Shia/Sunni) of the religion also quite simply have not yet come to the sort of co-existence as catholicism/protestantism, which further complicates the issue of finding unity on any issue.

As for those statements: For a large period it was deemed as part of Christendom to march into far-away lands and enslave and kill people of other faith. And the bible quite literally states dozens upon dozens of things that would be quite on par with things like Sharia-Law, if some of the more extreme elements within the religion had their way (and has been enforced as such in the past).

Christianity and violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes, i realize that it started out pacifistic. Did not survive the transition from outsider to state religion, at all though. Then again, when Islam started, (religious) wars were common. So why would it surprise that the new religion reflected the world of those who wrote it down ?

If we maintain that Christendom has changed their outlook (and even now is struggling to concede points of basic human decency at times) and interpretation of the bible (while often having figureheads give the same statements you know state for muslim leaders) and is not defined by its radical elements, we ought to allow the same view and the same struggle for members of other religious groups. Both rely on incredibly outdated texts thatn have constantly been re-interpreted and regularly instrumentalised. And "taking action" in resistance in numbers is not exactly a given in western history, either, even the recent history.

Remember that most white-supremacists movements/organisations see themselves deeply rooted in how they interpret christianity, the same goes for numerous other christian organisations around the World (India is notorious for this issue, as are quite a few countries in africa)

[NobodyHere]

This is why I love John Oliver

John Oliver Paris Attacks - YouTube

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get why people keep saying this isn't Islam when it in fact is part of their religion.

As much fun as it would be to live in a black and white world, that's just not true. It's a part of the Islam like the KKK or the David Koresh is a part of Christianity.

ISIS and other extreme Islamic groups use the Koran and the umbrella of Islam to justify their actions. It has nothing to do with doctrine, and they can as easily ignore any parts of the Koran that don't relate to their cause as readily as any other religious group does.

ISIS' flavour of Islam is very different from mainstream Islam. They believe by destroying the past and building a caliphate in the Middle East they are fulfilling a prophecy that will bring on the end of days.

Every time a Paris incident happens, it inflames tensions both internationally between nations and domestically between Muslims and non-Muslims, and ISIS get exactly what they want, which is more dissatisfied Muslims to groom and recruit across the globe. ISIS want it to be us vs them, and it's working.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As much fun as it would be to live in a black and white world, that's just not true. It's a part of the Islam like the KKK or the David Koresh is a part of Christianity.

ISIS and other extreme Islamic groups use the Koran and the umbrella of Islam to justify their actions. It has nothing to do with doctrine, and they can as easily ignore any parts of the Koran that don't relate to their cause as readily as any other religious group does.

ISIS' flavour of Islam is very different from mainstream Islam. They believe by destroying the past and building a caliphate in the Middle East they are fulfilling a prophecy that will bring on the end of days.

Every time a Paris incident happens, it inflames tensions both internationally between nations and domestically between Muslims and non-Muslims, and ISIS get exactly what they want, which is more dissatisfied Muslims to groom and recruit across the globe. ISIS want it to be us vs them, and it's working.

I'm not arguing any of that. Just the fact that their beliefs are still rooted in Islam. They aren't making any of this stuff up. It's part of the book and how they choose to interpret it. My issue is with people who say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It's just incorrect. Their beliefs differ from Western Islam and more moderate Islam, but they are still coming from the same book.

[RainMaker]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/so...icle-1.2438142

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not arguing any of that. Just the fact that their beliefs are still rooted in Islam. They aren't making any of this stuff up. It's part of the book and how they choose to interpret it. My issue is with people who say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It's just incorrect. Their beliefs differ from Western Islam and more moderate Islam, but they are still coming from the same book.

Just as Jim Jones, David Koresh and the WBC had differing interpretations of the same book.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by cartman

Just as Jim Jones, David Koresh and the WBC had differing interpretations of the same book.

Yes, the Bible/Koran is not where their beliefs come from, it's where their justification comes from.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/so...icle-1.2438142

Just more proof that ISIS are the ones winning right now. Us vs them, exactly as I said above.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yes, the Bible/Koran is not where their beliefs come from, it's where their justification comes from.

Really - isn't this where ALL their doctrine comes from? I mean, just because it's juxtaposed with "modern" Islam doesn't mean it's not from the Koran.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Just more proof that ISIS are the ones winning right now. Us vs them, exactly as I said above.

As long as the rest of the world suffers useful idiots foolishly proclaiming the innocence of Islam other than "extremists" they have a tremendous advantage.

[stevew]

Isis is much more like a hasidic jew or a hardcore old school catholic than a Koresh type. They're literally interpreting a book from the stone ages. Modern Islamists are the ones that are changing the religion, not Isis