Typical Lebron choke at the buzzer

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

LOL. What a freaking moronic set of statements. The reality of the situation is that the team has been in position to win both games and the "King" has been a jester. It would be one thing if LeBron was good at closing out games/hitting big shots but was struggling in the conference championship series. Then you could chalk it up totally to other issues such as team/coach/inexperience. Instead, we've got an otherwise fantastic player who never makes the game winning shot no matter what.

The horrible coach and mediocre surrounding talent didn't miss a free throw and a shot in the final two minutes tonight. They aren't the ones throwing passes all over the place late in the game. They aren't the ones who transform from aggressive stars to passive role players the more important the situation is. A bunch of turnovers and another poor shooting night for LeBron.

The most 'freaking moronic' thing about this thread is the seeming inability for most people in this thread to grasp the fact that the lack of talent around LeBron might account for his lack of success in the clutch, when his team isn't able to shoot for shit and the D is locked in on him. Yeah, he missed a FT. So did a Piston (Wallace?). And that was hardly the most fucked up thing that happened in the last 60 seconds of that game, with both teams doing their best to throw it away. He missed a shot in the last 2 minutes? I bet a bunch of fucking players did in that disaster of a 4th Q by both teams.

The guy just can't win. First he gets criticized for passing the ball to an open Marshall (a solid 3pt shooter), and now he's getting criticized for attacking the basket and trying to draw a foul. I mean, fuck.

And for the record, LeBron *HAS* hit a game winner before, at least once, and he *has* performed in the 4th quarter before, on many occassions.

LeBron is not a take-over scorer/shooter like Kobe Bryant, and is far more in the playmaking Magic Johnson style of player. People should stop expecting him to just put this fucking team on his back and carry them to the finals while the other 4 guys on the court with him stink up the place ala Kobe and the Lakers, because that's not the skill set he's got. That he does it as much as he does is pretty bloody remarkable all things considered.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

LOL. What a freaking moronic set of statements. The reality of the situation is that the team has been in position to win both games and the "King" has been a jester. It would be one thing if LeBron was good at closing out games/hitting big shots but was struggling in the conference championship series. Then you could chalk it up totally to other issues such as team/coach/inexperience. Instead, we've got an otherwise fantastic player who never makes the game winning shot no matter what.

The horrible coach and mediocre surrounding talent didn't miss a free throw and a shot in the final two minutes tonight. They aren't the ones throwing passes all over the place late in the game. They aren't the ones who transform from aggressive stars to passive role players the more important the situation is. A bunch of turnovers and another poor shooting night for LeBron.

You have a very limited knowledge of NBA hoops is all I am going to say. You seem to want to label yourself a basketball fan yet you dont seem to know a thing about it. You claim you could identify and teach LeBron how to fix his flaw. From that statement I can tell you dont have the slightest idea, the reason he hasnt been as successful in the clutch is because he doesnt have the confidence in himself and his teamates that he does at other parts of the game. It has nothing to do with teaching him anything, you cant teach him confidence you can only condition him to be put in them situations. In fact it has nothing to do with anything other than the fact he hasnt been in this situation enough. When Kobe was a rookie I remember him wanting to hog the ball as the end of games, I am sure his teammates wanted to kick his ass, but what it did was gave Kobe the confidence to become one the best clutch players of his time because he was NOT afraid to fail. We dont remember how many times Michael Jordan failed because he suceeded enough to make us forget, LeBron will be the same way.

What makes some people better public speakers than others other than the obvious?

What makes Derek Jeter a better player in the post season than Alex Rodriguez?

What makes you better than most as making an ass of yourself with some of the things you say?

Confidence and being comfortable in your surroundings is the answer.
Again you arent born with this, this cant be taught it is just something you need to experience in order to adjust to it.

PS You sound like the fool, when you act like the board know it all and even more of a fool when you try to respond to a comment by ripping on a game that a poster designed.

[stevew]

There is no point arguing with the anti-lebron trolls anymore. So they can all foad.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

LOL. What a freaking moronic set of statements. The reality of the situation is that the team has been in position to win both games and the "King" has been a jester. It would be one thing if LeBron was good at closing out games/hitting big shots but was struggling in the conference championship series. Then you could chalk it up totally to other issues such as team/coach/inexperience. Instead, we've got an otherwise fantastic player who never makes the game winning shot no matter what.

The horrible coach and mediocre surrounding talent didn't miss a free throw and a shot in the final two minutes tonight. They aren't the ones throwing passes all over the place late in the game. They aren't the ones who transform from aggressive stars to passive role players the more important the situation is. A bunch of turnovers and another poor shooting night for LeBron.

Ilgauskas, Gooden, and Hughes combined for a grand whooping total of 15 points, 5 of 19 from the field. If anything, I'd blame the loss on them and not on Lebron. They could have had this game at the start of the Third Quarter, but Lebron's teammates were nowhere to be found.

[miami_fan]

Dear Danny Ferry,

Since Lebron is weak minded and incapable of leading your team past the regular season....I mean first round of the playoffs......I mean the 2nd round of the playoffs..........I mean the Eastern Conference Finals, I have a proposition for you. The Heat will send you Jason Williams(clutch shooter, lineup diversity), Antoine Walker(very willing to take the big shot anytime you want him to and sometimes when you don't want him to), and James Posey(is there a tougher player in the league? I think not) for the burden of taking that mental weakling off your hands.

Signed
Pat Riley

[Butter]

I guess you have to get tackled in order to get a foul called in the closing moments of a road playoff game.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The horrible coach and mediocre surrounding talent didn't miss a free throw and a shot in the final two minutes tonight. They aren't the ones throwing passes all over the place late in the game

You're right - the horrible coach drew up a play down one to run down the entire clock and basically put the game on one shot rather than running a quick play that if it failed would at least give them a chance to foul and at worst be down three and could tie with a last second shot. The horrible coach once again also burned all of his timeouts prior to the end of the game so even if the above scenario did happen they would have had to go the length of the floor to get a last second shot. And the horrible coach, down one with Detroit going to the line, had a tantrum at midcourt and got T'd up.

The mediocre surrounding players like Pavlovic only crapped his pants on a wide open shot and then traveled (btw I loved Lebron's facial expression after that - if there was ever an expression like who the hell are these jokers I'm playing with that was it) and of course fellow partner in mediocrity Larry Hughes missed a wide open jump shot from 7 feet out which would have won the game and then you have the third wheel of mediocrity Varejao who I won't fault for the missed tip in but will for deciding to pull a play from the Vlade Divac school of flopping rather than actually trying to defend Wallace on what became the game winning shot. Like he's going to get that call in the final minute of the conference finals in Detroit when one guy is Rasheed Wallace and he's Anderson freakin Varejao.

You know why Lebron had six turnovers? Because he's a forward playing point guard! Well he's playing point guard, shooting guard and small forward all at once really. The guy has 19 points (25% of the team's points), 7 assists, 6 boards and 3 steals and he's the one you want to rag on? The ONLY reason ANYONE else on that team ever scores is because there's basically 5 guys waiting to defend Lebron. The Cavs would be better with Lebron and Detroit's 4 main subs (Hunter, Delfino, Maxiell and McDyess) than they are with their own starters. People want to talk about MJ - well at least when teams were double teaming Jordan at the end of a game they had to know where Kerr, Pippen etc were on the floor - with the Cavs you make sure nobody's standing on the block (although apparently they can't even make a wide open 7 footer) and then everyone guard Lebron because him 1 on 5 is the best shot to score as opposed to anyone else wide open.

[Noop]

I think Melo is likely to win a NBA Championship before Lebron ever will... the reason is not because Melo has a better team(but they play in a better conference it balances out) but because Melo has been through March Madness.(Conference Tourneys and all that) Its something about performing on the biggest basketball stage that seperates college kids from highschool kids.

I do not state this as a fact but rather an observation. I know Kobe has a title but I would put that more on Shaq then Kobe. Wade lead his team to the final four so you know that kid is clutch, Melo as well. Garnett, T Mac, Lebron won't win a title without another college played superstar.

Again just my opinion.

[jbergey22]

Mello wont win an NBA championship with Allen Iverson on his team. Iverson only helps a team that isnt good offensively. His poor shooting percentage and the fact that he loves to shoot hurts the team in the fact he is taking away shots from better options by hoisting his low percentage shots. I agree with your point about NCAA tournament conditions however, I agree that these players are more conditioned to deal with the "high pressure situations" much better than players that havent been through this.

[RedKingGold]

I really only watch playoff basketball, but watching pretty much all of the Cavs playoffs games this year has taught me that if the Cavs just went out and traded for either Jason Kidd or Andre Miller and allowed James to play off the ball, the Cavs would be be consistently in the race for the NBA Finals.

Especially Andre Miller. Anyone wonder why Andre Igwoduala suddenly became a great player after the Iverson trade? It wasn't because the team got rid of Iverson, but because the team got Miller to run the point. He won't make the plays like Kidd or Nash, but he's one of the best pure point guards in the league right now that no one knows about.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I really only watch playoff basketball, but watching pretty much all of the Cavs playoffs games this year has taught me that if the Cavs just went out and traded for either Jason Kidd or Andre Miller and allowed James to play off the ball, the Cavs would be be consistently in the race for the NBA Finals.

Especially Andre Miller. Anyone wonder why Andre Igwoduala suddenly became a great player after the Iverson trade? It wasn't because the team got rid of Iverson, but because the team got Miller to run the point. He won't make the plays like Kidd or Nash, but he's one of the best pure point guards in the league right now that no one knows about.

Andre Miller was the Cavs last good point guard.

Who did they replace him with Cav fans?

[GoDukes]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I guess you have to get tackled in order to get a foul called in the closing moments of a road playoff game.

That's always been "how it is" though.

[GoDukes]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Dear Danny Ferry,

Since Lebron is weak minded and incapable of leading your team past the regular season....I mean first round of the playoffs......I mean the 2nd round of the playoffs..........I mean the Eastern Conference Finals, I have a proposition for you. The Heat will send you Jason Williams(clutch shooter, lineup diversity), Antoine Walker(very willing to take the big shot anytime you want him to and sometimes when you don't want him to), and James Posey(is there a tougher player in the league? I think not) for the burden of taking that mental weakling off your hands.

Signed
Pat Riley

You must realize that the East is very week and probably the top 9 teams in the West could've hung in there in the Eastern Playoffs. They've got the Pistons and....well....yeah.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GoDukes

You must realize that the East is very week and probably the top 9 teams in the West could've hung in there in the Eastern Playoffs. They've got the Pistons and....well....yeah.

Even more reason to trade him to the Heat. Obviously what he has accomplished is lacking. So once again, trade Lebron and saddle a potential conference rival with a mentally weak player.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by GoDukes

That's always been "how it is" though.

You're right, it's still stupid, though.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If Detroit was doing anything other than putting the car into cruise control, they'd be winning by 30 or more per night. But it's a testament to LeBron's game and how much he disrupts a defense, that they've been able to stay in these games...and that they gave this same team fits last year.

Not to take a side, but you really need to decide if it is the Pistons on cruise control, or LeBron's game that is keeping things close. It really doesn't work to have it both ways.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Not to take a side, but you really need to decide if it is the Pistons on cruise control, or LeBron's game that is keeping things close. It really doesn't work to have it both ways.

Why?

As I said above, the Cavs should be getting blown out both games on paper. That they aren't is due to a combination of LeBron and the Pistons not coming out with enough fire.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Now now, leave logic out of this. LeBron, as everyone here attests, is a tremendous talent whom teams must base their defense around. It's just a very stupid few who can't seem to comprehend that his inability to make any kind of shot with a game on the line is a negative that must be fixed before he's put in the same class as the truly great players. He doesn't have to make every one, or even necessarily take every one, but at some point he has to at least show the ability to make one.

What does having tremendous talent have to do with the fabled "clutch-shot" ability?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Now now, leave logic out of this. LeBron, as everyone here attests, is a tremendous talent whom teams must base their defense around. It's just a very stupid few who can't seem to comprehend that his inability to make any kind of shot with a game on the line is a negative that must be fixed before he's put in the same class as the truly great players. He doesn't have to make every one, or even necessarily take every one, but at some point he has to at least show the ability to make one.

As I also said earlier in this thread, he has hit one. This season.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As I also said earlier in this thread, he has hit one. This season.

Not to mention against the Wizards in the playoffs last year.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not to mention against the Wizards in the playoffs last year.

This is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league, and Lebron has passed up a game winning shot twice in the ECF's cause he is to insecure to take it.

Champions don't do that.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by amdaily

This is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league, and Lebron has passed up a game winning shot twice in the ECF's cause he is to insecure to take it.

Champions don't do that.

I thought he passed up the game tying shot in game 1 and shot the game winning shot in game 2 but missed, i could be wrong though. And champions do have to pass at some point or have you never heard of John Paxson and Steve Kerr? The Cavs just need their role players to all step up on one night. Illgauskas was good in game 1 and sucked in game 2. Palvovich good in game 2, bad in game 1. And Larry Hughes has just been terrible in both games. Every superstar in recent years has always had that other guy to count on whether it's Pippen, Kobe, Parker, Ginobli, Drexler, Dumars, Worthy, Mchale, etc. etc. Lebron doesn't have that guy or anything close.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by amdaily

This is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league, and Lebron has passed up a game winning shot twice in the ECF's cause he is to insecure to take it.

Champions don't do that.

Maybe come back to this thread when you've actually watched or even read about the games. Jesus.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Maybe come back to this thread when you've actually watched or even read about the games. Jesus.

I've seen them both, much to my own Cleveland-native heartbreak.

Watching our supposed superstar pass off sure basket to D. Mashall was bad enough, but to see yet another pass go to the 0-everything Pavlovic in game two was every worse

[larrymcg421]

Michael Jordan is mentally weak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNc89NjsDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNNCQMH0BF8

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by amdaily

I've seen them both, much to my own Cleveland-native heartbreak.

Watching our supposed superstar pass off sure basket to D. Mashall was bad enough, but to see yet another pass go to the 0-everything Pavlovic in game two was every worse

Eagerly waiting for Brown to insert Newble at the half course line in game 3 so 'Bron can dish a pass back to him to lose the game...

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by amdaily

I've seen them both, much to my own Cleveland-native heartbreak.

Watching our supposed superstar pass off sure basket to D. Mashall was bad enough, but to see yet another pass go to the 0-everything Pavlovic in game two was every worse

That's really stretching game winning shot. I mean, at what point must he always take the shot? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 4th quarter? He did take the shot after that.

Also, Pavlovic was 7 of 10 in game 2. Highest shooting % on the Cavs.

You lose again. Keep trying, though!

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

That's really stretching game winning shot. I mean, at what point must he always take the shot? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 4th quarter? He did take the shot after that.

Also, Pavlovic was 7 of 10 in game 2. Highest shooting % on the Cavs.

You lose again. Keep trying, though!

And a big ole' zero from 3pt land on the game; just as Marshall was in game 1.

Hell, even Donyell said he was surprised to get the ball at the point considering how cold he was shooting from that distance. That wasn't a coaching call, that was a Lebron call. And you people need to face it: he fucking blew it big time.

[larrymcg421]

Yeah, pass up a 40% 3pt shooter because he's 0 for 3 in the game. That's a pretty small sample size, don't you think?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Hell, even Donyell said he was surprised to get the ball at the point considering how cold he was shooting from that distance.

Cold? Donyell hits 6 threes in the previous game against New Jersey and misses his only attempt in game one against Detroit and he's cold from that distance?

[Atocep]

Whats funny is Steve Nash has won two MVPs because he'd make that pass. Lebron James is being ripped on message boards and in the media because he did.

[Brian Swartz]

Steve Nash is the exception. He is automatically immune to the criticism that comes to any other MVP winner, and many other players who have not been MVPs, that can't get their teams to the Finals. The mere fact that he is Steve Nash and that Phoenix is fun to watch automatically precludes the mere possibility that his greatness could be questioned.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

SThe mere fact that he is Steve Nash and that Phoenix is fun to watch

Yeah, that's why he gets the exception...

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Whats funny is Steve Nash has won two MVPs because he'd make that pass. Lebron James is being ripped on message boards and in the media because he did.

Yeah, I just don't get all the ripping on Lebron for passing when every superstar passes late in the game at some point. How do you think Robert Horry got his nickname? Lebron has taken his team as far as Nash ever has with a far worse supporting cast albeit in the Eastern Conference, but it's still impressive for a 3rd year player who has to do everything for his team because no one else can create a shot for themselves.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

for a 3rd year player

4th...

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by amdaily

4th...

Whoops. You're right for the first time tonight.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Whoops. You're right for the first time tonight.

No worries, people will try to pull the same faux pas when he is still winless in his is 11th season...

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by amdaily

No worries, people will try to pull the same faux pas when he is still winless in his is 11th season...

Get a clue or find some other sport to worry about because you are blind when it comes to the NBA.

[MrBug708]

So Lebron passes and he's criticized for passing and not shooting more and yet, Kobe is clutch but is blasted for not being a good team player when he shoots too much.

*sigh*

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So Lebron passes and he's criticized for passing and not shooting more and yet, Kobe is clutch but is blasted for not being a good team player when he shoots too much.

*sigh*

I agree. It is ridiculous that Lebron is being criticized for making a perfect pass to a wide open teammate that has been a very good 3 point shooter throughout his career.

[Jas_lov]

Under 4 minutes and headed for another good finish. Lebron is approaching a tripple double. Big Z, Palvovich, and Gooden all playing well for a change. Lebron just hit a fadeaway 3 and has 30/9/9.

[Atocep]

Who went and taught Lebron how to make big shots?

[Eaglesfan27]

And another big shot by Lebron.

[Jas_lov]

And that might seal it. I guess Lebron isn't mentally weak after all.

[SackAttack]

Yeah, but c'mon - he missed a 23-footer with less than three minutes to go! Can't let him off TOTALLY easy, right?

[miami_fan]

DAMMIT! Don't believe it Cavs fan, He really can't hit big shots. Make the trade! Make the trade!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

And that might seal it. I guess Lebron isn't mentally weak after all.

Until next game....

[Atocep]

Omg why did Billups pass that to Prince!?! Someone tell Chauncey he's Mr. Big Shot and is contractually obligated to take that shot.

[Brian Swartz]

No doubt. Unquestionable, ironclad proof that Chauncey is mentally weak. Pistons have no chance to win with him in the lineup.