Israeli-Hamas War (Oct 2023)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You are wrong, but you can think what you want.

If they wanted it to stop, they would stop giving them weapons.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If they wanted it to stop, they would stop giving them weapons.

A. No they wouldn't. B. Not what the report said.
Read what I wrote again.

[RainMaker]

Looks like attacks in the West Bank have intensified too. Dropping tear gas from drones and bulldozed a monument for the American journalist that was executed a year ago.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Redditors are saying there’s IDF-Hamas fighting now. Looks like this is the invasion.

This is yhe end...my only friend. The end

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

This is yhe end...my only friend. The end

End times.

[RainMaker]

Not much on the ground coverage since communications have been severed but these are some extraordinary shots.

Footage for the unprecedented lsraeli air attacks hitting Gaza Strip. pic.twitter.com/CgLiAD2Etz

— TIMES OF GAZA (@Timesofgaza) October 27, 2023

[CrimsonFox]

Israel is pretty much allin on this and say they won't stop until all of hamas is dead....no ceasefire no nothin

and....I still have no idea what is going on.

I mean Hamas is a terrorist organization right?
But who says they are just sitting in gaza in one place with a sign saying "all the humasians are here". So israels plan is just bomb everything in gaza, bombombomb

and

this makes no sense at all
oh yeah and they won't stop bombing everything and everyone until the hostages are returned

I...uh....i just can't...

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

End times.

nah there would be rats involved if that were the case

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

this makes no sense at all

From a purely logical, dispassionately viewing all the facts objectively polnt of view, how many wars in the history of humanity do make sense?

[Edward64]

See at about 4:40. Weird thing to fess up to.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

See at about 4:40. Weird thing to fess up to.

It is not really. It has always been Palestinian civilians should be protected, and all Jews should die.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Israel is pretty much allin on this and say they won't stop until all of hamas is dead....no ceasefire no nothin

and....I still have no idea what is going on.

I mean Hamas is a terrorist organization right?
But who says they are just sitting in gaza in one place with a sign saying "all the humasians are here". So israels plan is just bomb everything in gaza, bombombomb

and

this makes no sense at all
oh yeah and they won't stop bombing everything and everyone until the hostages are returned

I...uh....i just can't...

Pretty sure saving the hostages is secondary to eliminating Hamas. This is a kill everything approach.

[Edward64]

Think we knew this last night but CNN is making it official

Israeli ground forces inside Gaza as Palestinians take stock after intense overnight bombardment | CNN

Israeli ground forces are inside Gaza after entering the enclave overnight, as Palestinians experienced what they have described as the most intense round of airstrikes since Israel began its retaliation against Hamas’ October 7 terror attack.

Israeli forces “went into the Gaza Strip and expanded the ground operation where infantry, armor and engineer units and artillery with heavy fire are taking part,” Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Saturday morning.

“The forces are in the field and continue the fighting,” he added, without giving further details.

[RainMaker]

Meanwhile in the West Bank.

��Al-Sawiya, S. Nablus, West Bank:

Its peak olive harvest season. While everyone is in the fields, armed settlers break Shabbat to continue the slaughter of Palestinians (Zionist rabbis consider this Kosher).
They killed 40 year Bilal Yousef & shot otherspic.twitter.com/cSsITmuhaE

— Jalal (@JalalAK_jojo) October 28, 2023

[RainMaker]

And in Gaza.

A video broadcasted a few moments ago by Al Jazeera shows the areas that were targeted in the airstrikes last night in #Gaza, revealing the immense destruction and the efforts to rescue citizens from under the rubble. pic.twitter.com/sMypPxQvMp

— S A R A H ��✌️���� (@Sarah_Hassan94) October 28, 2023

[Edward64]

Map of where the shellings are

Satellite analysis shows damaged buildings and impact craters in Gaza, Oct. 8–22

[GrantDawg]

This board really hates big formats.
I read a comment from a previous Israeli PM that said his expectation is that the IDF is trying to make a buffer corridor in North Gaza, then use that as base to continue incursions into Gaza until the "end of the way". His estimate is 6 months to 5 years. I have a hard time believing they are going to be able to have that long an extended attack without their support collapsing. The only thing that is keeping their Western allies with them is the fear any weakness in support would be a green light for their neighbors to openly join in the fight (they already are through proxies). An extended engagement plays right into Hamas and Iran's hands. Really all of this does. They might have finally set off the war between the Muslim world and the West they have always dreamed of.

[GrantDawg]

Fantastic article by a former IDF soldier. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/o...-veterans.html

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Honestly, IMO pretty good odds that is propaganda also. Comes from a Palestinian source.

From the video I saw with her naked, twisted leg in an unnatural angle, paraded around in a truck ... my guess is she was murdered.

But easy enough to prove it, they should do a quick video as proof of life.

Unfortunately, found dead.

Israeli-German Shani Louk's remains found, family confirms - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post

The body of Israeli-German citizen Shani Louk, who was believed to have been kidnapped alive amid Hamas's assault on the music festival in Reim, was found on Monday, with Louk's sister, Adi, confirming Shani's death on Instagram.

Louk was seen in footage shared on the day of the attack laying motionless in the back of a truck after being kidnapped and brought into Gaza. It was unclear if she was alive in the video, although Louk's mother stated a few days later that she was alive and being held in a hospital in Gaza. Louk's mother, Ricarda, told the German RTL/ntv that she was informed on Sunday that her daughter was no longer alive.

[CrimsonFox]

Are there any other civilians in gaza still alive?

[RainMaker]

Are there any reporters they didn't target that could tell us?

[CrimsonFox]

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are there any reporters they didn't target that could tell us?

i still am very confused why ANYONE would go into gaza whether it's too report or to deliver aid or whatever. Both sides are bombing everything and everyone, regardless of the reason they are there.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Except that the graphic is wrong? The biggest expense to the US government right now is Medicare/Medicaid.

[CrimsonFox]

Somethinsomething campuses are showing increase in antisemitism, attacks or something or at least that's reported. And in Russia, Palestines attacked Isrealis getting off a plane? Dunno all details of anything but ...uh...okay

[RainMaker]

Jabalya blast: Israeli strike on Gaza refugee camp causes casualties, officials say | CNN

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Somethinsomething campuses are showing increase in antisemitism, attacks or something or at least that's reported. And in Russia, Palestines attacked Isrealis getting off a plane? Dunno all details of anything but ...uh...okay

I saw the Russian airport thing on Twitter whenever it was, so help me I 100% thought it was merely Twitter doing that hoaxy thing it does a lot overnight. I thought "yeah, right, no way this is real"

Next day (yesterday? day before?) a friend referenced it in a post about some anti-semetic stuff in her area and I went "wait? it was real?" Looked on bbc dot com, sure enough, there was basically the same stuff I'd seen on Twitter.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I saw the Russian airport thing on Twitter whenever it was, so help me I 100% thought it was merely Twitter doing that hoaxy thing it does a lot overnight. I thought "yeah, right, no way this is real"

Next day (yesterday? day before?) a friend referenced it in a post about some anti-semetic stuff in her area and I went "wait? it was real?" Looked on bbc dot com, sure enough, there was basically the same stuff I'd seen on Twitter.

yeah i mean russia is russia but the college campus thing i couldn't take seriously. I mean really ...are there huge groups of palestinians that are going to american colleges? what "incidents"? holding up a sign?

[CrimsonFox]

one of you guys surely has stats on cilvians the US killed on their hunt for Alqueada

[GrantDawg]

The closest thing I saw to a number, and it feels light:
"A recent report suggests that the botched strike is indicative of a larger trend. Based on 3,000 documents disclosed by the Pentagon, the study alleges to have identified “an institutional acceptance of an inevitable collateral toll” during U.S. strikes. Indeed, widely available data reflects the prevalence of civilian casualties resulting from U.S. strikes against suspected terrorists. According to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (BIJ), for instance, U.S. strikes in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen from 2002 to 2020 killed between 10,000 and 17,000 people. Of these, between 800 and 1,750 are thought to have been civilians."

[RainMaker]

Over 200,000 for the Iraq War alone.

[GrantDawg]

He asked specifically about Alqueda, which wasn't what the Iraq War was about. That war was about oil and hurt feelings.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

I mean they did say the main reason for war was Saddam was aiding Al-Qaeda. The fact they lied doesn't make those civilians any less dead.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He asked specifically about Alqueda, which wasn't what the Iraq War was about. That war was about oil and hurt feelings.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I mean those stats are good too but was just curious about the retaliation casualties from 9/11. That's something we can directly compare this to

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I mean they did say the main reason for war was Saddam was aiding Al-Qaeda. The fact they lied doesn't make those civilians any less dead.

I didn't take that as the *main* reason...i thought the main reason was that we couldn't stop him from trying to develop/acquire WMD, which turned out to be a lie.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I didn't take that as the *main* reason...i thought the main reason was that we couldn't stop him from trying to develop/acquire WMD, which turned out to be a lie.

That was the excuse given.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

i still am very confused why ANYONE would go into gaza whether it's too report or to deliver aid or whatever. Both sides are bombing everything and everyone, regardless of the reason they are there.

For some people there are more important priorities than self-preservation. The cause is worth the risk, etc.

[Edward64]

My guess is Bibi thinks he can survive this. Golda Meir will beg to differ, but a lot has changed since then.

Netanyahu may not last, Biden and aides increasingly believe - POLITICO

A current U.S. official and a former U.S. official both confirmed that the administration believes Netanyahu has limited time left in office. The current official said the expectation internally was that the Israeli PM would likely last a matter of months, or at least until the early fighting phase of Israel’s military campaign in the Gaza Strip was over, though all four officials noted the sheer unpredictability of Israeli politics.

“There’s going to have to be a reckoning within Israeli society about what happened,” said the official who, like others, was granted anonymity to detail private conversations. “Ultimately, the buck stops on the prime minister’s desk.”

And the possible next in line are ...

With an eye toward the future, U.S. officials are talking to Benny Gantz, a member of the current unity government; Naftali Bennett, a former prime minister; and Yair Lapid, an opposition leader and former prime minister, among other Israeli figures, the former official said.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My guess is Bibi thinks he can survive this. Golda Meir will beg to differ, but a lot has changed since then.

Netanyahu may not last, Biden and aides increasingly believe - POLITICO

And the possible next in line are ...

I don't see how he survives a catastrophic intelligence and defense failure of this magnitude. I would say a large part of his military strategy right now is to try to extend this war as long as possible because the country is going to be hesitant to through the instability of replacing him while they are actively fighting. Of course, extending the war and the level of devastation Israel has visited upon Gaza is playing right into the hands of Hamas. Hamas is winning this conflict in every way so far.

[Edward64]

Glad Blinken is over there.

I know the end goal is to destroy as much of Hamas as possible but there's always a balance between civilian casualties vs types of force used.

Biden and his team send blunt warnings to Israel: Civilian suffering in Gaza will weaken public support for war against Hamas | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden and his top advisers are warning Israel with growing force that it will become increasingly difficult for it to pursue its military goals in Gaza as global outcry intensifies about the scale of humanitarian suffering there.

Biden, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken – who departed Thursday for Israel with a message on protecting civilian lives – have all explicitly pressed the case in recent private conversations with the Israelis, telling them that eroding support will have dire strategic consequences for Israel Defense Forces operations against Hamas.

Behind the scenes, American officials also believe there is limited time for Israel to try to accomplish its stated objective of taking out Hamas in its current operation before uproar over the humanitarian suffering and civilian casualties – and calls for a ceasefire – reaches a tipping point.

Yup, there's a timetable. Weeks and not months seems right to me.

In fact, there is recognition within the administration that that moment may arrive quickly: Some of the president’s close advisers believe that there are only weeks, not months, until rebuffing the pressure on the US government to publicly call for a ceasefire becomes untenable, sources told CNN.

There's also reports that IDF has encircled Gaza. I hope there's an escape route South for women and children.

[CrimsonFox]

imagine...for three weeks....there are enemies everywhere bombing all around you. Your neighbors have been murdered. You are told to leave. You sleep in a church with no food and drink the holy water. 2 of your family are already dead. You can't sleep. Every other day you are told to leave. The last group that left died. You have no idea where to go. You are threatened and told to leave because they will bomb the church. So you run but faint because you haven't slept or eaten. Someone runs you over with a tank

[RainMaker]

We never share graphic videos. Today we’re making an exception.

The words “Israeli airstrike” do not convey the horror of what was done to people sheltering at al-Shifa hospital in Gaza.

Lives shattered. Bodies broken. Pain beyond imagining.

We must, if we can, bear witness. pic.twitter.com/ioH5f1TxBz

— IfNotNow�� (@IfNotNowOrg) November 3, 2023

[RainMaker]

Allowing American citizens to be bombed to smithereens.

��American citizens in Gaza targeted by Israeli forces while traveling to the crossing after given instructions by the U.S. Embassy. #Ceasefirenow pic.twitter.com/kKmFkd6rNy

— American Muslims for Palestine (@AMPalestine) November 3, 2023

[Edward64]

Don't see western press reporting this (yet) but would be a great option if feasible. Abbas & West Bank has been relatively peaceful w/Israel.

But assuming Hamas is bombed to smithereens, would Gaza civilians even want Abbas & PLO governing them? Would Abbas be able to retain control?

Just a moment...

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas says during a meeting in Ramallah with US State Secretary Anthony Blinken that the PA is ready to shoulder full responsibility for the Gaza Strip in the framework of a comprehensive political solution that will include the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza after Israel’s war against the Hamas terror group ends.

Abbas stresses that security and peace can only be achieved by ending Israel’s military rule over the territories of the “State of Palestine,” and by recognizing East Jerusalem as its capital.

[RainMaker]

Definitely the people we should be giving unlimited defense funds to.

Just a moment...

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Definitely the people we should be giving unlimited defense funds to.

Just a moment...

What is your solution to this situation?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What is your solution to this situation?

Not to give them $14 billion in weapons.

[Edward64]

So, any theories on why Hamas kidnapped children? and continue to hold them?

[CrimsonFox]

where did they get children? I thought all the hostages came from that concert?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

where did they get children? I thought all the hostages came from that concert?

Kibbutz's were attacked and I'm sure there were families at the concert.