Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over) - Page 4

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:03 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathoner

Agreed. If I were a wolf I certainly would try to become a judge early. It would kind of put you in the cat-bird seat so to speak. Assuming the mafia knows who each other is, they could then control the law and the criminal elements.

I totally disagree

DaddyTorgo · 02-26-2007, 08:04 PM

the logic of getting a judge in now seems solid to me as well, although I didn't play in the tombstone game so I don't really understand the pros and cons of it as well as some of you.

I think if there is some sort of "mason" role in the game that we'd want to get one of those people elected to the judgeship, so they can be slightly less "blind" in their actions.

I don't really have any idea yet of any potential vote, it's still very early in the process, there are plenty of people left to check in, and a whole day's worth of discussion to be had first before a vote, so i'm not going to throw a placeholder vote on someone for Day 1 just yet.

Marathoner · 02-26-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

this just illustrates my point that it is important to get someone in office now while we control the numbers.

But this would seem to support an arguement that the wolves should get in control early, (since it would be hard to remove them later on).

st.cronin · 02-26-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

this just illustrates my point that it is important to get someone in office now while we control the numbers.

Just out of curiosity, the vote is private, but will the results be public? In other words, do we know if Alan will say

15 votes for player y
3 votes for player x

etc.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathoner

But this would seem to support an arguement that the wolves should get in control early, (since it would be hard to remove them later on).

it would be easy. Reading the rules a few times through I think it would be clear if we had a member of the mafia as a judge and that person would easily be exposed and removed from the game.

ntndeacon · 02-26-2007, 08:08 PM

Actually in the last game it wasn't as much of an i'll do it...(at least not after the first day) It was a who do you trust idea.

Marathoner · 02-26-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

it would be easy. Reading the rules a few times through I think it would be clear if we had a member of the mafia as a judge and that person would easily be exposed and removed from the game.

I think the first couple of days, when everyone developing their trust list a corrupt judge could hide and protect his cronies. They probably would be exposed as the game went on and we got a better idea who was on which side.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:12 PM

look at it this way.

there are 20 players in the game. Lets say there are a max of 4 bad guys including a sympathizer. That gives a 20% chance we elect a bad guy judge. Each day the odds increase and unless we lynch a bad guy they swing in their favor pretty heavily.

Alan T · 02-26-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Just out of curiosity, the vote is private, but will the results be public? In other words, do we know if Alan will say

15 votes for player y
3 votes for player x

etc.

Yes the results will be publically posted. Just who voted for who will not be said.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathoner

I think the first couple of days, when everyone developing their trust list a corrupt judge could hide and protect his cronies. They probably would be exposed as the game went on and we got a better idea who was on which side.

The second the judge starts rejecting warrents they would be voted out and lynched.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:16 PM

So does the judge have any extra security personel?

Can they hire any?

Alan T · 02-26-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

So does the judge have any extra security personel?

Can they hire any?

The judgeship does not come with any extra personal to guard them. There might be possibilities that they can purchase protection of various methods either through the means of items or service .

Also another thing that was asked that I should clarify. Your items (including money) that you have may be passed by you to another player at any time. Just simply send me a PM with what item(s) you wish to give to which player. Once submitted, those items are then owned by the new player.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 08:24 PM

This comes down to one thing to me. The question of "Who can I trust?" is really not answerable right now, unless someone has some magic source of information that is better used now than later. My guiding question is "Who can I trust to not do stupid crap and not totally screw us if they're bad?" This makes me weary of putting certain players into the judgeship. The judge having money seems like it wouldn't hurt, but since we can gift them money it's not a giant factor.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:31 PM

Alan, is there a salary that comes with being judge?

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 08:34 PM

Tyrith it sounds like you and I are on about the same page when it comes to deciding who to vote for. Do you have anyone that jumps out to mind as a good candidate? I think we'll need to start to forum a consensus by tomorrow morning if we're to get this done.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Tyrith it sounds like you and I are on about the same page when it comes to deciding who to vote for. Do you have anyone that jumps out to mind as a good candidate? I think we'll need to start to forum a consensus by tomorrow morning if we're to get this done.

I agree as well.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 08:44 PM

I've kind of started scaring myself about the bad things that can happen with most of the people on the list because I have that much respect for their skill

Anxiety would be a good choice if we're looking for someone who is almost certain to not fly apart. You would be too, BK, but you've been so central to this discussion I don't think you'd make a good choice. Path is also typically in control and active. If we want to go with someone new Marathoner and bsak both seem to have their heads screwed on right, IMO.

Jonathan Ezarik · 02-26-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

The second the judge starts rejecting warrents they would be voted out and lynched.

So all they have to do is go along with the detectives and everything will be alright? What's to prevent a judge in the mafia from following this plan?

If I was in the mafia that's how I'd play it. Try to become the judge, allow everything the detectives brought me, and buy everyone's trust.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 08:50 PM

Trust would be cheap for a judge. Seer scans and other abilities like that would eventually make sure we had a good judge. More than likely not too much would go wrong early.

Alan T · 02-26-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Alan, is there a salary that comes with being judge?

Not that publically has been stated.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

So all they have to do is go along with the detectives and everything will be alright? What's to prevent a judge in the mafia from following this plan?

If I was in the mafia that's how I'd play it. Try to become the judge, allow everything the detectives brought me, and buy everyone's trust.

then what difference would it make who we have in office early on. the important thing is that we have someone.

The more I think about it if there was a mafia judge they would actually expose 2 people by denying requests. Themselves and the person they are protecting.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 09:11 PM

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

I interpreted that as one per detective ( I may be wrong, after all I am not the board moderator) but even so that is 3 different actions that can be done.

I would imagine if a detectives requast is being denied he would be told if someone already selected that action and they have a chance to select another.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 09:24 PM

I have to say, what's the alternative right now? We either have to elect a judge or wait for someone to give us info. How long would we be willing to wait? Would we be willing to sacrifice a seer-type role, if need be, to elect a good judge? The answer to the last question is almost certainly no, so would you all be willing to wait three, four, or even more days to get a good judge? Either someone with a single clear type ability needs to spill, or we have to take our chances, I think.

Swaggs · 02-26-2007, 09:28 PM

My take on the judge situation:

I think the judge will have a big target on his back. He gets an additional day action that will be detrimental to the mafia, so he will be a likely night target. I, personally, would not want to be the first judge, which leads me to my second thought...

If someone wants to run for judge, I think they should clearly declare themselves and then "campaign" so that we can choose a brave person that will do what he/she says they will do, with the penalty for acting against the group to be voted out of office. Also, this will keep someone from sneaking in the backdoor, since an unannounced candidate could sneak through with annonymous vote.

I also think we need to get a judge on the first day, so that we can take care of the judge's powers.

Jonathan Ezarik · 02-26-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

Another thing to consider: are the detectives immune from mafia influence? If we have a crooked cop and a crooked judge, is there any way for us to know?

ntndeacon · 02-26-2007, 09:36 PM

according to the rules it is one warrent per detective

Dr. Sak · 02-26-2007, 09:46 PM

I'm still trying to figure everything out but while we have the numbers in our favor I think that a judge should be selected. If someone wants to become judge we should just let them say why they should be judge. We are all smart enough individuals to separate the good from the bad. That is just my suggestion.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

according to the rules it is one warrent per detective

Right each detective can ask for one warrant.

The judge, however, can only issue 1 arrest, 1 search, and 1 sentence per day.

Swaggs: I've said I'm willing to be the Judge. I think I have a good track record at promoting transparency in the games, I'm not afraid to do the right thing, if the need arises, even if it'll get me killed, and I also happen to be a good guy so we wouldn't need to worry about that

.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 09:54 PM

And I want to be judge since I think my role's pretty vanilla and I'd love to spice it up some.

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 09:58 PM

Alan, i ask again: Is there any way to earn money outside of what your role PM told you?

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

what idea have you put forward other then voting you for sherif?

That i think cronin is evil based on his utter-obliviousness to there being day actions, id vote either LSG or i judge because we can prove our goodness(well, someone else can corroborate my story at least). I noted tyrith was defending cronin when he was brought up(another player said cronin seemed suspicious too). I was the first to volunteer for judge role, i was the first to annonce i had a day action, first to announce i had already used it, and i told you i was poor and not hoopsguy in my reasoning to elect me.

Please, tell me anyone who has given even half that amount of info. The only other person who has given any hint to their role i saw was lsg, when she stated she could prove her goodness as well.

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 10:03 PM

I am vehemently against cronin, tyrith, or barkeep being the judge. No one will care, but im still saying it

hoopsguy · 02-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Out of the self-nominated candidates I have seen listed up to this point (Blade, Anxiety, and Barkeep) I would strongly encourage people to go with Anxiety out of this group. I consider the other two players highly suspect and I have seen how those type of people tend to exercise their power.

If you want to be grabbing your ankles asking for another, vote Barkeep or Blade. If you want to have a fighting chance at respectable law and order, Anxiety is the only person who I would consider giving my vote out of those I've seen campaigning for it.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:18 PM

hoops I'd love for you to justify that assertion with some actual examples.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 10:19 PM

Tombstone? :P

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 10:19 PM

Well I think I would make a good judge. I have pretty good availability and have shown a willingness in the past to do whats best for the village. Plus I have alot of expierience as a bad guy so I won't get played easily.

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well I think I would make a good judge. I have pretty good availability and have shown a willingness in the past to do whats best for the village. Plus I have alot of expierience as a bad guy so I won't get played easily.

You're also one of the top 2 or 3 wolf players on the board, so I'd rather not have you in the top seat. Causes too much trouble potentially.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Tombstone? :P

Yeah what did I do in tombstone? I mean sure I was a bad guy, but what really did I do? I got killed by my own team in order to build a CoT around them.

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 10:21 PM

Id be much happier with anxiety then barkeep, but as ive said id prefer myself

Tyrith · 02-26-2007, 10:23 PM

Furthermore, I would also like to be the judge to be someone that isn't likely to get into any fights, and Anxiety serves that role pretty well. Barkeep would too, but I honestly think Barkeep has had too much of a hand in this decision making process.

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 10:24 PM

Dola, while i would be ok with anxiety im not thrilled with hoops.

If i had someone say my claims were true, would that ease any of your concerns about me?

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:24 PM

I love this trust for Anxiety who just went UTR as a wolf, who was only voted out for other considerations.

hoopsguy · 02-26-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

hoops I'd love for you to justify that assertion with some actual examples.

I bet you would love for me to justify that assertion. It will all come out in time, yes it will. I'm sure we'll talk about it at length, but that time will not be tonight. I'm guessing we'll both be around on Day 2 to chat about this - the mobsters won't want to take out the kook in the watchtower, right?

I'll lay my cards out, but not all of them today. For now, I've said my piece.

Lathum · 02-26-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrith

You're also one of the top 2 or 3 wolf players on the board, so I'd rather not have you in the top seat. Causes too much trouble potentially.

I would never make this play as a wolf, the tombstone game already illustrated why it would not work

Blade6119 · 02-26-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I love this trust for Anxiety who just went UTR as a wolf, who was only voted out for other considerations.

And why should we trust you? I can have someone corroborate my story, give me a reason why i should trust/vote for you

hoopsguy · 02-26-2007, 10:26 PM

And it ain't so much that I trust Anxiety, but I DON'T TRUST YOU.

Or Blade6119.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:26 PM

Anyhow it's clear I'm not meant to be judge and since we need one I will withdraw my name from consideration.

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I bet you would love for me to justify that assertion. It will all come out in time, yes it will. I'm sure we'll talk about it at length, but that time will not be tonight. I'm guessing we'll both be around on Day 2 to chat about this - the mobsters won't want to take out the kook in the watchtower, right?

I'll lay my cards out, but not all of them today. For now, I've said my piece.

You've lost me. Kook in the watchtower?

Barkeep49 · 02-26-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And it ain't so much that I trust Anxiety, but I DON'T TRUST YOU.

Or Blade6119.

Love you too hoops.

02-26-2007, 09:28 PM	#175
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	My take on the judge situation: I think the judge will have a big target on his back. He gets an additional day action that will be detrimental to the mafia, so he will be a likely night target. I, personally, would not want to be the first judge, which leads me to my second thought... If someone wants to run for judge, I think they should clearly declare themselves and then "campaign" so that we can choose a brave person that will do what he/she says they will do, with the penalty for acting against the group to be voted out of office. Also, this will keep someone from sneaking in the backdoor, since an unannounced candidate could sneak through with annonymous vote. I also think we need to get a judge on the first day, so that we can take care of the judge's powers. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-26-2007, 09:58 PM	#181
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Alan, i ask again: Is there any way to earn money outside of what your role PM told you? __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

02-26-2007, 10:03 PM	#183
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	I am vehemently against cronin, tyrith, or barkeep being the judge. No one will care, but im still saying it __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

02-26-2007, 10:21 PM	#190
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Id be much happier with anxiety then barkeep, but as ive said id prefer myself __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

02-26-2007, 10:24 PM	#192
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Dola, while i would be ok with anxiety im not thrilled with hoops. If i had someone say my claims were true, would that ease any of your concerns about me? __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

02-26-2007, 08:04 PM	#152
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	the logic of getting a judge in now seems solid to me as well, although I didn't play in the tombstone game so I don't really understand the pros and cons of it as well as some of you. I think if there is some sort of "mason" role in the game that we'd want to get one of those people elected to the judgeship, so they can be slightly less "blind" in their actions. I don't really have any idea yet of any potential vote, it's still very early in the process, there are plenty of people left to check in, and a whole day's worth of discussion to be had first before a vote, so i'm not going to throw a placeholder vote on someone for Day 1 just yet.

02-26-2007, 08:08 PM	#156
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Actually in the last game it wasn't as much of an i'll do it...(at least not after the first day) It was a who do you trust idea.

02-26-2007, 08:12 PM	#158
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	look at it this way. there are 20 players in the game. Lets say there are a max of 4 bad guys including a sympathizer. That gives a 20% chance we elect a bad guy judge. Each day the odds increase and unless we lynch a bad guy they swing in their favor pretty heavily.

02-26-2007, 08:16 PM	#161
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	So does the judge have any extra security personel? Can they hire any?

02-26-2007, 08:24 PM	#163
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	This comes down to one thing to me. The question of "Who can I trust?" is really not answerable right now, unless someone has some magic source of information that is better used now than later. My guiding question is "Who can I trust to not do stupid crap and not totally screw us if they're bad?" This makes me weary of putting certain players into the judgeship. The judge having money seems like it wouldn't hurt, but since we can gift them money it's not a giant factor.

02-26-2007, 08:31 PM	#164
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Alan, is there a salary that comes with being judge?

02-26-2007, 08:34 PM	#165
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Tyrith it sounds like you and I are on about the same page when it comes to deciding who to vote for. Do you have anyone that jumps out to mind as a good candidate? I think we'll need to start to forum a consensus by tomorrow morning if we're to get this done.

02-26-2007, 08:44 PM	#167
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	I've kind of started scaring myself about the bad things that can happen with most of the people on the list because I have that much respect for their skill Anxiety would be a good choice if we're looking for someone who is almost certain to not fly apart. You would be too, BK, but you've been so central to this discussion I don't think you'd make a good choice. Path is also typically in control and active. If we want to go with someone new Marathoner and bsak both seem to have their heads screwed on right, IMO.

02-26-2007, 08:50 PM	#169
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	Trust would be cheap for a judge. Seer scans and other abilities like that would eventually make sure we had a good judge. More than likely not too much would go wrong early.

02-26-2007, 09:11 PM	#172
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	But only one search and arrest warrant can be issued each day. So if the judge gets more than request, as we might very well have more than one detective, the judge will be able to protect someone without it seeming like they are doing so.

02-26-2007, 09:24 PM	#174
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	I have to say, what's the alternative right now? We either have to elect a judge or wait for someone to give us info. How long would we be willing to wait? Would we be willing to sacrifice a seer-type role, if need be, to elect a good judge? The answer to the last question is almost certainly no, so would you all be willing to wait three, four, or even more days to get a good judge? Either someone with a single clear type ability needs to spill, or we have to take our chances, I think.

02-26-2007, 09:36 PM	#177
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	according to the rules it is one warrent per detective

02-26-2007, 09:46 PM	#178
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	I'm still trying to figure everything out but while we have the numbers in our favor I think that a judge should be selected. If someone wants to become judge we should just let them say why they should be judge. We are all smart enough individuals to separate the good from the bad. That is just my suggestion.

02-26-2007, 09:54 PM	#180
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	And I want to be judge since I think my role's pretty vanilla and I'd love to spice it up some.

02-26-2007, 10:16 PM	#184
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Out of the self-nominated candidates I have seen listed up to this point (Blade, Anxiety, and Barkeep) I would strongly encourage people to go with Anxiety out of this group. I consider the other two players highly suspect and I have seen how those type of people tend to exercise their power. If you want to be grabbing your ankles asking for another, vote Barkeep or Blade. If you want to have a fighting chance at respectable law and order, Anxiety is the only person who I would consider giving my vote out of those I've seen campaigning for it.

02-26-2007, 10:18 PM	#185
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	hoops I'd love for you to justify that assertion with some actual examples.

02-26-2007, 10:19 PM	#186
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	Tombstone? :P

02-26-2007, 10:19 PM	#187
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Well I think I would make a good judge. I have pretty good availability and have shown a willingness in the past to do whats best for the village. Plus I have alot of expierience as a bad guy so I won't get played easily.

02-26-2007, 10:23 PM	#191
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	Furthermore, I would also like to be the judge to be someone that isn't likely to get into any fights, and Anxiety serves that role pretty well. Barkeep would too, but I honestly think Barkeep has had too much of a hand in this decision making process.

02-26-2007, 10:24 PM	#193
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I love this trust for Anxiety who just went UTR as a wolf, who was only voted out for other considerations.

02-26-2007, 10:26 PM	#197
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	And it ain't so much that I trust Anxiety, but I DON'T TRUST YOU. Or Blade6119.

02-26-2007, 10:26 PM	#198
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Anyhow it's clear I'm not meant to be judge and since we need one I will withdraw my name from consideration.

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