06-28-2015, 08:53 PM | #151 | |
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Thanks Chief. Yes we are identical-he's about 3 mins older than me, and I was a surprise to my doctor and parents. "oh my god, there's another one in there!" or something similar was his response when he saw me. Born a month premature (remember this was back in the 60's), and I was baptized in the hospital because they were not sure I would survive. Fooled them all I guess. |
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06-28-2015, 08:57 PM | #152 |
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Yeah, I remember. If you're around let me know.
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06-28-2015, 09:02 PM | #153 | |
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Yeah the republican response to the decision was sad but predictable. All it is doing is pushing away a lot of people from voting for them in the future. I can understand it more from a professional religious man (or woman)-they are being told to accept something that is very core to their beliefs and are wondering what's next), but all these people going over the top (Huckabee and Cruz I'm looking at you.) saying that the end days are now here and that "the gays" have destroyed America just make me shake my head. Edit: I'm very glad that the Justice put in his decision that no one is forcing a church to marry same sex couples if their faith does not call for it. That's the way it should be. Makes it hard on the couple though, as they may be forced from their denomination of choice if they want to be married in a church. The pastor at my mom's church, recently had to tell a couple (not in the church), because of his beliefs, could not come to the ceremony. Last edited by Thomkal : 06-28-2015 at 09:08 PM. |
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06-28-2015, 09:11 PM | #154 |
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06-28-2015, 09:15 PM | #155 | |
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06-28-2015, 09:15 PM | #156 | |
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mine too. I've seen one video taken by a You Tuber right there in the crowd, right when the decision was announced-the noise and emotion of that moment is something I will always remember. |
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06-28-2015, 09:18 PM | #157 | |
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Thanks Jim! It sure was nice to have a day like that. Not sure how many more of them we will have sadly |
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06-28-2015, 09:29 PM | #158 |
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Dissenting opinion from Justice Roberts
"Understand well what this dissent is about: It is not about whether, in my judgment, the institution of marriage should be changed to include same-sex couples. It is instead about whether, in our democratic republic, that decision should rest with the people acting through their elected representatives, or with five lawyers who happen to hold commissions authorizing them to resolve legal disputes according to law," he wrote. And continues "Stripped of its shiny rhetorical gloss, the majority's argument is that the Due Process Clause gives same-sex couples a fundamental right to marry because it will be good for them and for society," Roberts wrote. "If I were a legislator, I would certainly consider that view as a matter of social policy. But as a judge, I find the majority's position indefensible as a matter of constitutional law." Scalia wrote: "Until the courts put a stop to it, public debate over same-sex marriage displayed American democracy at its best," Scalia wrote. "But the Court ends this debate, in an opinion lacking even a thin veneer of law." I'm going with the dissenting judges on this one. It should not be decided in the SCOTUS. Change should have come from the legislators. Elected by the people.
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06-28-2015, 09:34 PM | #159 | |
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Dutch, what a classy response, thank you for it. I'm glad you were able to open your mind and understand what homosexuality is and what you were doing was harmful to many others around you. Unfortunately too many have not learned this yet. My mother (in her 70's, very religious) goes to a card crafting party at her friends house every other week or so. At the party this time were two women-who could have gone by the same description as her. When she came home from the party, I went to her car to help her bring stuff into the house...and she was literally shaking and crying and apologizing to me. I held her close and tried to figure out what was wrong. The two woman, thinking they were amongst people of their same beliefs, had gotten on to the topic of homosexuals for some reason, and started spouting a lot of nasty stuff about us, not knowing she was the mother of one. Stuff that was bred from pure ignorance and from the pulpit. My mother was flabbergasted as she had never experienced such talk and outright hatred before, and she was so sorry that I had to ever experience that. It was not a fun day. Last edited by Thomkal : 06-28-2015 at 09:36 PM. |
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06-28-2015, 09:45 PM | #160 | |
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Hey EF, Thanks for the support, I don't like to see two woman kissing, and I'm gay So I can understand your point of view here. In fact the thought of having sex with a woman makes me ill . Have to disagree with you a bit on your other point. This clearly has become a national issue rather than a state one-because now laws would have to be written in each state over the status of a same-sex marriage. Some would deny they had any status at all, which only would create more lawsuits and angst. This way the SC had made the status the same for everyone-crystal clear and hopefully not up for interpretation. |
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06-28-2015, 09:49 PM | #161 | |
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I had seen this in passing, but had not heard what they found out. Oh those wacky gay people. On the other hand, isis would no doubt love to cut up a bunch of gays than even a bunch of Americans, so glad there was no one there to act on this. |
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06-28-2015, 09:58 PM | #162 |
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06-28-2015, 10:03 PM | #163 |
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06-28-2015, 10:13 PM | #164 |
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06-28-2015, 10:27 PM | #165 |
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My guess is Thomkal never forgets to send thank you cards either.
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06-28-2015, 11:02 PM | #166 |
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06-28-2015, 11:02 PM | #167 | |
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The fed/anti-fed debate is a brilliant pain in the ass. It gets icky pretty quick. Such as, do you think marriages and their rights should be revoked once across a border? Also, is this only a state issue? Can a county have a law different from the state? |
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06-28-2015, 11:03 PM | #168 |
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How many years is the over/under on when polygamy becomes a right?
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06-28-2015, 11:15 PM | #169 |
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06-28-2015, 11:18 PM | #170 |
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Polygamy is a bit different.
I could care less how many wives someone has though. |
06-28-2015, 11:39 PM | #171 |
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I'm being serious. The rights of people to marry whomever they choose is the heart of this decision, correct? There are people out there who believe in this. Why is it a straw man arguement? I haven't been discussing who should get married. I've been against the method in which it has been adopted. Using the fact that the Supreme Court has decided to jump into this. Shouldn't polygamists, which is practiced by Mormon fundamentalists, be given their day in court? This could hit both the 14th amendment and the 1st amendment. You can be closed minded about it. But sticking your head in the sand, doesn't mean it won't happen.
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06-28-2015, 11:40 PM | #172 | |
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And same sex marriage wasn't a bit different a decade ago?
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06-28-2015, 11:55 PM | #173 | |
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Your question is only serious if you see the choice to want multiple spouses the same as being homosexual. Even if you think homosexuality is a choice, one can be homosexual without ever having a sexual relationahip, however, one cannot be an unmarried polygamist. You are mixing your philosophies, just pick one: "To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra. |
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06-29-2015, 12:00 AM | #174 |
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Is monogamy a scientific fact? If it isn't, shouldn't one who has the urge to have multiple partners and be allowed to have them covered by their health insurance and be able to give them all the benefits of marriage, be allowed to marry them?
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06-29-2015, 12:22 AM | #175 |
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First of all, stop it. There is no organized group seeking plural marriage in any serious fashion, so it's a silly question.
Second, nothing changed this week about how the United States as a government treats marriages; the only thing that altered is the requirements for starting one. So the arguments about gay marriage were social in nature. That's not the case with plural marriages. Tax burdens, power of attorney, inheritance, child custody, asset and liability assignment - none of these are insurmountable problems, but there is enough legal burden on changing the system to allow group or plural marriage that it'll be a while before any group is large enough or determined enough to make a competent case to force the government to make those changes. Finally, my suspicion is that while it was blatantly discriminatory to claim that two people couldn't enter into a legal covenant together because of their gender, the practice of enforcing exclusivity in partnerships is quite settled as a legal matter. |
06-29-2015, 12:29 AM | #176 |
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It's social policy.
I'm surprised so many are willing to throw away the tenets of our great democratic republic. There was no reason for the court to step in. Laws would have been changed the way our country was set up. It may have taken a little longer, but it would have happened. And there would have been a lot less turmoil.
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06-29-2015, 12:39 AM | #177 | |
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Perhaps. And as long as everyone is eligible for it it would be fine. The issue with gay marriage was that not all citizens were eligible for this right. |
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06-29-2015, 03:36 AM | #178 |
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Once Obummer secretly implements sharia law we can get polygamy ok'd
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06-29-2015, 04:11 AM | #179 |
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06-29-2015, 04:13 AM | #180 |
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06-29-2015, 04:25 AM | #181 | |
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So I am clear, what tenet are you referring to? Its interpretation of the law that impacts social policy. It wasn't the justices just making their own "social program". And no, I actually don't believe it would have happened but just "a little longer". Do you believe blacks and women would have progressed this far since the 50's and 60's without being made to do so? |
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06-29-2015, 04:59 AM | #182 |
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06-29-2015, 05:00 AM | #183 |
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06-29-2015, 06:11 AM | #184 | |
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Once upon a time people felt that way about segregation and miscegenation. Were they wrong in Loving v Virginia? Should it have continued to be state's rights? That couple was married in DC, where it was legal, but lived in Virginia where it was a crime. I think they were right to put an end to that and they were right to put an end to marriages only being allowed between consenting adults of opposite gender. As far as laws being changed and it simply taking time, how long should people have to wait? Would segregation have been eliminated if not done by the hands of SCOTUS? When? It had already been 100 years since the Civil War. How long should people have to wait for equal access and due process? To make it even worse, SCOTUS had even once said "separate but equal" was just fine, but it no longer flies. Last edited by Tekneek : 06-29-2015 at 06:13 AM. |
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06-29-2015, 06:41 AM | #185 | |
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But can you imagine the divorce cases?
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06-29-2015, 06:59 AM | #186 |
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06-29-2015, 07:58 AM | #187 |
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06-29-2015, 08:50 AM | #188 |
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OMG HOW LONG UNTIL SCHMIDTY IS ALLOPWED TO MARRIE HIS DOOOOG???
god O'BUMMMER! #handbasket
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06-29-2015, 08:58 AM | #189 |
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06-29-2015, 09:02 AM | #190 |
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So, here's the thing about "letting the democratic process play out" and "state's rights":
We don't get to vote on whether people can exercise their fundamental constitutional rights. Nor do states get to abridge those rights. |
06-29-2015, 09:35 AM | #191 |
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new thread created.
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06-29-2015, 09:50 AM | #192 |
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It's funny, I think you could cut excerpts of the Amazing Grace eulogy and apply them into this thread.
-“We don’t earn grace. We're all sinners. We don't deserve it. But God gives it to us anyway.” -"For too long we've been blind...we see that now." Amazing grace, indeed. And love wins. |
06-29-2015, 10:03 AM | #193 |
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06-29-2015, 10:21 AM | #194 | |
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Exactly. It's nice to see that such an obvious hole was left in whatever talking points memo was circulated to these people. |
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06-29-2015, 10:23 AM | #195 |
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I am super happy about the SCOTUS ruling! When I read the news on Friday, I was just insanely giddy and kept singing "Now is the Feast and Celebration" (it's a Church hymn). My pastor went down to the Courthouse and started marrying couples almost immediately - I think she married the first gay couples in Dekalb County, GA. I'm sure it was a party atmosphere at Church on Sunday. I'm sad I missed it as I was out of town, but it was a great message - for those who are Christian and are affirming (even if you aren't, I guess), here is a link to it:
Fifth Sunday after Pentecost | 28 June 2015 on Vimeo
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06-29-2015, 10:26 AM | #196 | |
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Marriage isn't a fundamental constitional right. its defined by states.
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06-29-2015, 10:27 AM | #197 | |
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There are some things to consider. It is an interesting thought exercise. |
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06-29-2015, 10:28 AM | #198 |
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You should re-read the Court's opinion.
edit: directed at tarcone's post. Last edited by digamma : 06-29-2015 at 10:29 AM. |
06-29-2015, 10:31 AM | #199 | |
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Loving v. Virginia.
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06-29-2015, 10:32 AM | #200 |
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