Soccer Thread 2021-2022

[AlexB]

My guess is cost - most years they wouldn’t be used. So the cost of the machine and the cost of maintenance would not be good value.

[Critch]

All the EPL teams have undersoil heating so it's pretty rare for snow to be an issue, just if it snows on the day of the game. If there's major snow forecast on the day of the game it'll end up with the game being postponed to stop people having to travel. So I'd guess they dont have ploughs because they'd hardly ever be needed.

Unrelated, looks like Neymar has a serious ankle injury, ankle all twisted at an ouchie angle

Spoiler

[miami_fan]

Both of those answers make sense.

Thanks.

[miami_fan]

MLS fans

You have to warn the uninitiated to mute the sound whenever Alejandro Moreno is announcing an MLS game. PU.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Critch

All the EPL teams have undersoil heating so it's pretty rare for snow to be an issue, just if it snows on the day of the game. If there's major snow forecast on the day of the game it'll end up with the game being postponed to stop people having to travel. So I'd guess they dont have ploughs because they'd hardly ever be needed.

Also in some new cases, they can actually wheel the pitch in and out to make sure it gets sun all over, or in this case, doesn't get thermal shocked by the snow.) It's just when it's falling faster then the undersoil heating can melt it

[miami_fan]

Dallas to London to Burnley (almost there) 31 hours - no sleep - fueled by coffee, cheese crackers and more coffee. Frigid temps and snow predicted for match day. The things we do when you love your club @SpursOfficial #coys #thfc #snowmatch pic.twitter.com/4784qLL4hy

— 🎙KeN17 (@SaxyKeN17) November 27, 2021

[ISiddiqui]

That Philly v. Nashville PK shootout was hilariously bad. I mean Philly was ok, but Nashville missed 4 straight PKs, lol.

[Ksyrup]

Yep, I caught that as it was timed just perfectly with the beginning of the SNF game. At one point I believe they were a combined 4 misses out of 5.

[miked]

Not many follow MLS, but what a wild finish last night in Boston. NYCFC scores the go ahead goal in extra time (Castellanos, MLS leading scorer). Promptly 3 minutes later, Castellanos makes an awful challenge and gets booked for his second yellow. Another NYCFC player gets hurt and they can't sub him out. New England then equalizes in the 118th minute essentially up two men. The game went to penalties where every NYCFC hits and one of the NE players hits a dud, NYCFC goes through to the conference finals.

[SirFozzie]

(heartbreak)

[AlexB]

I’m still trying to work out how Jota didn’t score after the GK & CD took each other out. It’s not quite Ronny Rosenthal, but not far off

[miami_fan]

Was it this bad?

Is this the miss of the season? 😯 pic.twitter.com/nZTrD4WKUb

— ESPN FC (@ESPNFC) December 4, 2021

[bhlloy]

Eh, that’s not even in the ballpark. Should have scored, but that’s tougher than it looks with the ball bouncing like that and trying not to castrate yourself on the post.

[MarcoAmara]

Arsenal is a team I will never support. They play worse than championship teams.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Eh, that’s not even in the ballpark. Should have scored, but that’s tougher than it looks with the ball bouncing like that and trying not to castrate yourself on the post.

Are we serious about giving EVERYTHING for the shirt or is that all just talk?

[miami_fan]

There is something appropriate about the first goal of the Ralf Rangnick era being scored by Fred.

[miami_fan]

WTF was that, Timbers supporters?

[miked]

Stunner!

[ISiddiqui]

NYCFC deserved the win in the end. Timbers were flat. Shocking considering they were on home field with that amazing atmosphere and in "Portland weather".

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Champions League round of 16 draw will be re-drawn, following a "technical problem with the software."

Umm...oops?

[SirFozzie]

Yup. They effed up a couple times during the draw (screwing up what teams could play each other), and doing it again was a necessity.

But between this and F1, the conspiracy theories that all sports are fixed have gotten a lot of ammo over the last 24 hours.

[MIJB#19]

The draw was live broadcasted (I missed it though, but did watch the conference league draw curious to see how they're doing this draw procedure), so it should be look back at what happened wrong.

Long story short: the possibility to have an Atletico Madrid vs Manchester United matchup was accidentally missing in the initial draw. Ironically, on the redraw they end up being one of the 8 matchups.

[flere-imsaho]

How, exactly, do actual grown adults fuck this up?

[SirFozzie]

There's absolutely no truth to the rumor that the cause of the redraw was Barcelona walking in going "So, who do we play?" and UEFA panicked and declared the draw void, only to remember that Barcelona fell to the Europa League.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

How, exactly, do actual grown adults fuck this up?

early indications were what seems to amount to Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Bad info and/or human error put the wrong teams in/out of at least two of the draw pools early in the process

[Ksyrup]

Software doesn't screw up draws, people do.

[Critch]

Quite a funny tweet from Stenhousemuir FC, a fourth level Scottish team:

We’re pleased, and confused, to announce that we’ve been drawn away to Real Madrid in the Champions League Round of 16 #WeAreWarriors⚔️ pic.twitter.com/8eIYQaGkhY

— Stenhousemuir FC (@StenhousemuirFC) December 13, 2021

[flere-imsaho]

I've played FM long enough to know they're angling for a lucrative friendly match in the offseason.

[Ksyrup]

Feels like sports - EPL in particular - is about at March 9 or 10, 2020, in terms of the imminent pause of leagues. Games are being postponed into this coming weekend now. Leicester's game today and this weekend is off. ManU's game this weekend is off. There are growing calls to pause until early 2022.

I assume the NFL will continue as it was able to handle things better last year, but in some ways, things are worse now than last fall because no one was particularly prepared for a shutdown this year.

[SirFozzie]

In non-COVID news... I believe the Nations League contract with ESPN expires after next year, and if so, those rights are about to take a HUGE upswing in value:

ESPN: Serving sports fans. Anytime. Anywhere. - ESPN

There were rumors a month ago that FOX was attempting to take the rights for Euro Competitions (which would include Nations League games), so if ESPN want to keep their rights, they better bring a dump truck full of money. (edit: Correction, Fox has already signed rights for 2024 ownward) FOX acquire rights to Euro 2024 and Euro 2028

Fox Could Obtain UEFA Euro Rights

Key Points:

This is a memorandum of cooperation. It means they want to do it, they intend to do it, but haven't yet guaranteed it's going to happen. Still can fall through. But with the money on the table, and premier matchups, I don't think it will fall through.

6 CONEMBOL teams will join Nations League A Groups in 2024
the remaining 4 teams will join Nations League B Groups

edit: Confirmation of new format if it goes through: UEFA working with CONMEBOL on joint Nations League | Reuters

All games will be played in Europe.

I’m spitballing (no confirmed info, just reasonable guesses) here, but if they wanted an additional bulwark against the biannual World Cup (and earn more in TV rights in a different market), they could reach out to CONCACAF for several reasons:

USA and Mexico to Nations League A
Next 4 teams to Nations League B
Remainder sprinkled through C and D

(This would bring it to 24 teams in each of the top two leagues, which isn’t ideal but very doable with six groups of four, with the group winners qualifying (and top two ranked teams get a bye to semifinals, while other 4 play to get into the semifinal), or a full quarterfinal round with the 2 highest ranked second place teams getting into the QF and having a full quartefinal round)

Also, this would be good for lower level soccer-nations, as they would get more meaningful games against teams at their own level.

[flere-imsaho]

Last year I subscribed to NBC's streaming service, Peacock, to watch the EPL, because I once said (on this forum, I think) that if someone offered the EPL streaming for, say, $10/month, I'd totally do that. I can't remember what I was paying for Peacock, but it wasn't far off.

Anyway, I just cancelled. The problem is that they spread the games between Peacock, regular NBC, and NBCSN which is only available if you have a cable TV package. As someone who cut the cord 8 years ago, it means I would regularly not be able to watch the games I wanted (even if I set up my OTA antenna), so I found I was resorting to, shall we say, less than above-board streaming.

Anyway, here's hoping the paradigm shifts with the next TV contract.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Last year I subscribed to NBC's streaming service, Peacock, to watch the EPL, because I once said (on this forum, I think) that if someone offered the EPL streaming for, say, $10/month, I'd totally do that. I can't remember what I was paying for Peacock, but it wasn't far off.

Anyway, I just cancelled. The problem is that they spread the games between Peacock, regular NBC, and NBCSN which is only available if you have a cable TV package. As someone who cut the cord 8 years ago, it means I would regularly not be able to watch the games I wanted (even if I set up my OTA antenna), so I found I was resorting to, shall we say, less than above-board streaming.

Anyway, here's hoping the paradigm shifts with the next TV contract.

I thought all the games were already being streamed on Peacock even if they were on the other channels.

I know the EPL is moving from NBCSN to USA but I guess that does not solve your problem if they are not streamed at the same time on Peacock.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

In non-COVID news... I believe the Nations League contract with ESPN expires after next year, and if so, those rights are about to take a HUGE upswing in value:

ESPN: Serving sports fans. Anytime. Anywhere. - ESPN

There were rumors a month ago that FOX was attempting to take the rights for Euro Competitions (which would include Nations League games), so if ESPN want to keep their rights, they better bring a dump truck full of money. (edit: Correction, Fox has already signed rights for 2024 ownward) FOX acquire rights to Euro 2024 and Euro 2028

Fox Could Obtain UEFA Euro Rights

Key Points:

This is a memorandum of cooperation. It means they want to do it, they intend to do it, but haven't yet guaranteed it's going to happen. Still can fall through. But with the money on the table, and premier matchups, I don't think it will fall through.

6 CONEMBOL teams will join Nations League A Groups in 2024
the remaining 4 teams will join Nations League B Groups

edit: Confirmation of new format if it goes through: UEFA working with CONMEBOL on joint Nations League | Reuters

All games will be played in Europe.

I’m spitballing (no confirmed info, just reasonable guesses) here, but if they wanted an additional bulwark against the biannual World Cup (and earn more in TV rights in a different market), they could reach out to CONCACAF for several reasons:

USA and Mexico to Nations League A
Next 4 teams to Nations League B
Remainder sprinkled through C and D

(This would bring it to 24 teams in each of the top two leagues, which isn’t ideal but very doable with six groups of four, with the group winners qualifying (and top two ranked teams get a bye to semifinals, while other 4 play to get into the semifinal), or a full quarterfinal round with the 2 highest ranked second place teams getting into the QF and having a full quartefinal round)

Also, this would be good for lower level soccer-nations, as they would get more meaningful games against teams at their own level.

This is getting out of hand quickly. The Nations League is bad enough as it is already.

Secondly, it makes logistically more sense to bring in the national teams of Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Senegal and Ghana (to name a few) than those of the Chile, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay, Colombia, Mexico and the USA because the grand majority of players of those African nations actually play in Europe, thus not requiring 20ish players having to fly from America to Europe.

[SirFozzie]

I think one major reason for the expansion of the Nations League is blocking FIFA's plans for an every two year world cup. If so, then if they bring on CONCACAF (41) along with UEFA (55) and CONEMBOL (10) they can block a two year WC (AFC/Africa have about 100 votes combined) from ever being approved (instead of having to threaten to boycott)

[MIJB#19]

The UEFA yesterday put an article on their website claiming a bureau did research that should that also playing a world cup in an olympic summer games year would be bad for the reputation of football as it would make them look bad for wanting to draw attention away from other sports.

Obviously no word about their expanded nations league plans though.

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I think one major reason for the expansion of the Nations League is blocking FIFA's plans for an every two year world cup. If so, then if they bring on CONCACAF (41) along with UEFA (55) and CONEMBOL (10) they can block a two year WC (AFC/Africa have about 100 votes combined) from ever being approved (instead of having to threaten to boycott)

A 24-team Nations League between UEFA, CONMEBOL and rogueing USA and Mexico added in, that just sounds like playing the world cup in the style of 1986-1994 and essentially not just blocking the FIFA idea, but actually stealing it.

The support of the entire CONCACAF seems doubtful to me. Why would the other 39 CONCACAF federations support this if Mexico and the USA go rogue on them? There won't be room for throwing in all 41 CONCACAF teams, unless they make a regional Nations League for the B through D levels as well and throw in the South American teams in there.

On a global scale, for roughly 100-125 federations, having more world cups with more teams increases their already slim odds to ever make it to a world cup from like 1% to 2%. The only way those can side with the FIFA on new plans is if they're told to get more money, because trying to catch up with the top50 nations in the world is something they will never achieve. FIFA will promise that, regardless of what the research UEFA claims to have done.

The expansion to 48 teams at the world cup 2026 mostly helps the second tier African nations, the second tier of North America and the top tier of Asia. It's a better insurance to have the USA, Mexico, Australia, South Korea and Japan to qualify, but China is still too far behind to double up on their 2002 qualification. It won't give better odds to have Russia, Italy, England, Germany, France, Spain and Turkey to qualify at all. Just throwing out some names of what sound like being the biggest markets.

All that said, the UEFA Nations League isn't really appealing to anybody but the teams crowds, even at the A level. Matches of Poland vs Wales, Czechia vs Switzerland, does that appeal foreigners? Or in an expanded format does something like Belgium vs Uruguay, Colombia vs Denmark, Mexico vs Croatia or Nigeria vs Austria appeal to the general public? I doubt it.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I thought all the games were already being streamed on Peacock even if they were on the other channels.

Nope. I would have thought that too, hence my annoyance.

[sovereignstar v2]

Yeah, that has been an issue for quite a few years now. I believe all the matches were streamed in what was called NBC Sports Gold and I think that lasted all of one year. Then they started splitting things, where you had to get Gold to make sure you didn't miss out on 4-5 matches of your favorite team each season. Basically, what's going on with Peacock nowadays. I do think Peacock allows you to watch all replays the next day or something. Not 100% on that as I don't have to time to watch any matches I miss live, so haven't looked into it for awhile.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure full replays are out there, but watching a full replay isn't appealing since a) I already know the score and b) the "extended" highlights (usually 10 minutes) that NBC puts on Youtube generally suffices.

[Ksyrup]

This is pretty cool - a guy who is graduating high school with my daughter this year signed a professional deal with Louisville FC that includes an academic scholarship.

I don't know anything at all about college vs pro for soccer, so does this mean he shows more promise than to let him play in college to develop? Basically, like a high end baseball prospect being drafted and playing in the minors?

Dude was unreal this year - scored 48 goals in 19 games.

EDIT - here's an article about it (although it may be behind a paywall). Sounds like it is a somewhat unique arrangement.

Several paths to college and pro soccer are opening up for future youth players in Kentucky. Here's one example. @HLpreps @cdrummond97 @KHSAA https://t.co/StcDirf1Y7

— Herald-Leader Sports (@KentuckySports) December 21, 2021

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is pretty cool - a guy who is graduating high school with my daughter this year signed a professional deal with Louisville FC that includes an academic scholarship.

I don't know anything at all about college vs pro for soccer, so does this mean he shows more promise than to let him play in college to develop? Basically, like a high end baseball prospect being drafted and playing in the minors?

Dude was unreal this year - scored 48 goals in 19 games.

EDIT - here's an article about it (although it may be behind a paywall). Sounds like it is a somewhat unique arrangement.

Several paths to college and pro soccer are opening up for future youth players in Kentucky. Here's one example. @HLpreps @cdrummond97 @KHSAA https://t.co/StcDirf1Y7

— Herald-Leader Sports (@KentuckySports) December 21, 2021

Generally speaking the best players will go through an MLS Academy system early on. But the US being so massive and the MLS Academy system really getting off the ground only a decade ago, a lot of good players will fall through the cracks. Those will go through HS soccer to college soccer. It's at the stage where really the first 10 picks of the draft have meaningful players.

So this means that this person may not have been good enough to be picked up by an MLS Academy but he was good enough for a USL team to sign him out of the high school (edit: though I just read the article and it appears he was in the Louisville City Academy for the last two years - so a way to entice those players to come play for the USL team and not miss out on college education). And a nice touch to pay for his education in case the soccer thing doesn't work out.

[flere-imsaho]

This is basically the model in Europe. Get the kids into the Academy at an early age, and educate them along the way (either in house or via a collaboration with local schools). It doesn't usually include a university education, but not as many Europeans get a university education as Americans do.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Dude was unreal this year - scored 48 goals in 19 games.

One thing I've learned (of the relatively few) about HS soccer: be careful about reading too much into stats.

Top scorer in Georgia this year had 44 in 17 games ... but when I dug into that a little it was kinda revealing. Most were in bunches -- I think there was a 7 goal game, several 5-6 goal games -- against REALLY bad teams (10-0 final, 14-2 final, etc). Against even reasonable competition a few times much more normal stat lines, nothing that would have stood out particularly.

No dirt on the kid in this article, he might be the next big thing for all I know ... I just know that stats can get really misleading at times at that level.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is basically the model in Europe. Get the kids into the Academy at an early age, and educate them along the way (either in house or via a collaboration with local schools). It doesn't usually include a university education, but not as many Europeans get a university education as Americans do.

I can only compare with the Netherland, I seriously doubt there's a universal European model.

Professional soccer players rarely, like basically never, have anything more than a high school diploma when they get into the first team, but most have been discovered by one of the 36 professional clubs (I'd have to dig it up, but between them I think there are roughly 25 to 30 soccer "schools") before the are 10 years old. The kids get picked up at home after school and brought home to be able to combine (high) school and training during the week, especially at the "high school" ages, I think the soccer schools provide with homework support to make sure the kids don't fail in their non-soccer education.

After the "high school" age, you basically have to be good enough to make the "A team", or in some cases (like Ajax and PSV) the "B team", most clubs don't have a true B team anymore, or if you're really lucky or stupid, you got poached at around 16yo by one of the soccer clubs from London, Liverpool or Manchester. Those that make it into the pro's, could try to part-time things and earn a 'college/university' education. It's best to go to the Johan Cruijff Academy, where sports people get a chance to educate themselves during their professional sports careers, but especially in soccer I think it's rare.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

It's best to go to the Johan Cruijff Academy, where sports people get a chance to educate themselves during their professional sports careers, but especially in soccer I think it's rare.

Okay, so what age (range) is that?

What I pictured was something like what IMG does for several sports (with copycats also springing up), combining high school and intensive sports training.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

One thing I've learned (of the relatively few) about HS soccer: be careful about reading too much into stats.

Top scorer in Georgia this year had 44 in 17 games ... but when I dug into that a little it was kinda revealing. Most were in bunches -- I think there was a 7 goal game, several 5-6 goal games -- against REALLY bad teams (10-0 final, 14-2 final, etc). Against even reasonable competition a few times much more normal stat lines, nothing that would have stood out particularly.

No dirt on the kid in this article, he might be the next big thing for all I know ... I just know that stats can get really misleading at times at that level.

Oh believe me, I know all about HS stats. They were a top 20 team in the state almost largely based on him alone. Had 2nd highest RPI in our region so they played relatively good comp. - especially since they had to play certain games in district. But yeah, HS stats are hard to read. Some can make a player look miles above where the talent level is, and some can accurately predict future dominance (Montana Fouts, a pitcher for Alabama, comes to mind. Her HS stats were beyond video game but she's been all that in college).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Oh believe me, I know all about HS stats. They were a top 20 team in the state almost largely based on him alone. Had 2nd highest RPI in our region so they played relatively good comp. - especially since they had to play certain games in district. But yeah, HS stats are hard to read.

The situation was kind of a revelation of sorts to me honestly. I was shocked to discover that the most prolific scorer in the state was at my HS alma mater but was getting little to no hype.

That's when I started digging into it a little more and had the "ohhhhhh ... NOW I get it" moment.

[Ksyrup]

Between uneven competition and relying on family, friends and generally team-friendly stat counters, it's not hard to dummy up someone's stats. For instance, errors in baseball/softball can be charged (or not) to jack up batting averages or drop ERAs.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is basically the model in Europe. Get the kids into the Academy at an early age, and educate them along the way (either in house or via a collaboration with local schools). It doesn't usually include a university education, but not as many Europeans get a university education as Americans do.

Isn't this also sort of the system in baseball when you look at countries like the Dominican Republic? If a kid shows promise at like 10-12 years old, they get tossed into these academies where they play constantly and get some schooling. Funded indirectly by MLB who is giving a cut to the agents who find these kids.

It's why we see such a high percent of players from those regions.

The United States seems like an aberration where most sports are pay-to-play. Exceptions being basketball and football.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, so what age (range) is that?

Post "high school" is technically 18+.

If you plan on being a doctor after your sports career, you'll have to go through medical school (picking the right university for it) and do that whilst playing and training for your hobby, whatever sport it is. That's just extremely rare to be feasible, because those things are quite simply not connected whatsoever. It just doesn't work.

Back to exclusively talking about the soccer industry, kids (boys, basically) simply become fulltime professionals at the age of 17, 18, 19 or drop out around that age and go the "college" route. You are trained as a soccer player at one of the professional clubs, but your school until the age of 18ish is in your hometown. If you want to pick up some sort of education after that, basically during your pro career, you're on your own and need to find a school that's willing to help you do both things at the same time.

I mentioned the Johan Cruijff University because that's an exception specifically founded as an alternative to the "normal" educational system for 18+, they are more flexible in making things work together, but also specifically for a career in sports after sports. Apparently there's a specific Football Business (where football obviously means soccer) route to take, but I bet few soccer players take that route and just wait until they are 30+ and forced to retire, needing to find a job after sports.

Back generally speaking, sports isn't a career choice, it's something you are lucky to be able to do between the age of 20 and 35, you have to be extremely good in your sport, or marginally good in soccer, to make a living and afterwards you're expected to pick up a normal life like the other 17M people. Some stick around in coaching, but even that is obviously not for everyone.

And again, this is just how it works in the Netherlands, this is not "Europe", educational systems are very different across the borders.

[flere-imsaho]

It works basically the same way in the UK. Young players in the UK have an advantage of 4 tiers of "professional" football, and then a few tiers of semi-pro, so more, potentially, can find a team. A number who don't make it as players can find jobs in coaching, scouting, etc.... But it's certainly understood there's a problem for a lot of kids who didn't really catch on and only have a high school equivalent degree.