GroupThink 3 - Kitty Hawk, 2022 - Page 4

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
As a result, I fully support another DE through the FA market (and maybe in the draft as well, if one drops in our laps).

Just taking a look at it...Niagra Falls, Hawk Mountain, Champaign, Key West and Fort Knox all list their biggest need as Start DE. That's our second need, along with Mazatlan, Sacramento, Memphis and Tulsa.

It lists our biggest need as G, third need as Start S.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 12:18 PM

Didn't know we had a tie. I thought we all pretty much agreed to go with an additional DE. Sign away.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 12:24 PM

Oh, and the position strengths lists Little Rock as having the 2nd best DE reserves. Their main reserve? Brad Rosa.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 12:25 PM

Dola - I was just commenting on the probability a DE would fall to us in the draft...I don't think that will happen.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuervo72
Oh, and the position strengths lists Little Rock as having the 2nd best DE reserves. Their main reserve? Brad Rosa.

SEEEEE!!! Told you he was good!!

Just too pricey as QS pointed out.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
just football talk, not GT talk:

if you blitz the SAM then you usually cover the TE with the SS, hurting your ability to double or deep cover.

And by implication, if you don't blitz the Sam, then you are using hiim to cover the tight end or the appropriate intermediate zone. Which gives opposing offenses a mismatch, as Mills is simply awful as a cover man.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
And by implication, if you don't blitz the Sam, then you are using hiim to cover the tight end or the appropriate intermediate zone. Which gives opposing offenses a mismatch, as Mills is simply awful as a cover man.

Yes, but in FOF the TE's aren't utilized as much as they probably should be, making Mills' cover skills, or lack thereof, less significant.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 12:50 PM

Desmond Shon finally accepts the offer from Memphis, and will head there for the coming season.

In the final weeks of the FA period, we work out three deals. We re-sign LB J.J. Mills, and also pick up two more defensive linemen, to help fill a real need area. DT Bert Guthrie and DE J.C. Sinclair both will move directly into our front seven rotation, and should help out right away.

We release DT Brian Levine, who was a threat to our team’s overall harmony – and will depend on the other players in the fold.

This brings us to the rookie draft with 44 signed players, and about $8m in open cap room remaining.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 12:52 PM

Code:

Front Office Football: The Fourth Edition
Kitty Hawk Flyers Roster, Contract View
   
  Player                #   Pos  OnTm   EndCnt Exp  Cap Cost        Save if Rlse  
Sparks, Heath           18  QB   2020   2024   8    $4,900,000      $3,600,000        
Francis, Ethan          8   QB   2022   2023   6    $1,350,000      $1,350,000        
Tittle, Bennie          13  QB   2020   2022   3    $1,300,000      $1,200,000        
**Hutchins, Chuck       17  QB   2020   UFA    9    $0              $0                
Crane, Alan             15  QB   2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Finley, Daniel          20  RB   2018   2023   5    $9,760,000      $5,500,000        
Strong, Rob             24  RB   2020   2022   3    $1,190,000      $1,130,000        
Harden, R.J.            47  RB   2021   2022   2    $950,000        $890,000          
Rivers, Dennis          31  RB   2021   2022   2    $770,000        $770,000          
Rubble, Earnest         39  FB   2020   2023   3    $2,400,000      $1,500,000        
Kowalski, Rondell       36  FB   2020   2023   13   $1,900,000      $1,900,000        
Wylie, Larry            86  TE   2021   2025   2    $3,720,000      $2,080,000        
Diana, Julio            80  TE   2019   2023   14   $2,570,000      $1,900,000        
Wayne, Bernard          82  TE   2020   UFA    5    $0              $0                
Song, Peter             84  FL   2019   2024   4    $9,300,000      $5,550,000        
Sanderson, Robert       83  FL   2020   2023   3    $3,150,000      $2,040,000        
Carr, Kenneth           81  FL   2020   2022   10   $2,400,000      $1,800,000        
Matthews, Julio         88  FL   2020   UFA    5    $0              $0                
Andrews, Willie         65  LT   2018   2023   13   $16,300,000     $10,000,000       
Johns, Timothy          61  LT   2020   2025   8    $7,480,000      $5,230,000        
Huntley, David          66  LT   2022   2024   7    $2,460,000      $1,800,000        
Hausermann, Dave        72  LG   2020   2024   7    $2,200,000      $1,600,000        
Drake, Chuck            59  C    2022   2023   5    $1,350,000      $1,350,000        
Cicci, Carlton          60  C    2020   ----   3    $0              $0                
Johnson, Jerry          78  RG   2022   2024   6    $1,900,000      $1,350,000        
Wallace, Irv            71  RG   2021   2022   4    $1,250,000      $1,250,000        
Peterson, Rufus         68  RG   2019   ----   4    $0              $0                
Trask, Marco            63  RG   2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Grolsko, Frank          64  RT   2021   2023   2    $1,050,000      $920,000          
Chanoine, Ed            62  RT   2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Saldana, Van            14  P    2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Arellano, Neil          19  K    2021   2023   2    $1,210,000      $920,000          
Manning, Bryan          93  LDE  2022   2022   13   $10,000,000     $5,000,000        
Peters, Ellis           70  LDT  2020   2022   9    $2,800,000      $2,100,000        
Cochrane, Edward        92  LDT  2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Preston, Mario          95  LDT  2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Littlejohn, Jack        77  RDT  2019   2023   4    $4,920,000      $3,330,000        
Guthrie, Bart           91  RDT  2022   2024   7    $2,020,000      $1,470,000        
Sinclair, J.C.          90  RDE  2022   2024   6    $3,500,000      $2,500,000        
Emerson, Geoff          76  RDE  2019   2022   4    $1,220,000      $1,220,000        
Floyd, J.B.             79  RDE  2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Mills, J.J.             50  SLB  2020   2024   10   $2,800,000      $2,100,000        
Boyd, Howie             94  SLB  2021   2024   2    $1,570,000      $920,000          
Rapp, Percy             97  SLB  2021   2023   2    $920,000        $920,000          
Daniels, Russell        96  MLB  2020   2023   8    $12,750,000     $10,000,000       
Plank, Oscar            56  MLB  2021   2022   7    $1,450,000      $1,450,000        
Middleton, Buddy        98  WLB  2021   2024   2    $2,320,000      $1,420,000        
Mitchell, Otis          55  WLB  2021   2023   2    $770,000        $770,000          
Henderson, Joseph       42  LCB  2020   2022   7    $4,810,000      $3,710,000        
Duran, Luther           28  LCB  2020   2023   3    $1,790,000      $1,200,000        
Devitt, Cornell         32  LCB  2021   2023   4    $1,150,000      $1,150,000        
Bordano, Edgar          29  RCB  2018   2022   5    $6,000,000      $5,000,000        
Perry, Shane            35  RCB  2021   2022   7    $1,400,000      $1,400,000        
Hawkins, Ricky          33  SS   2020   2022   12   $4,000,000      $3,000,000        
Bradley, Richard        40  SS   2021   ----   2    $0              $0                
Reynolds, Louie         30  FS   2018   2022   13   $2,260,000      $1,900,000        
McNair, Orlando         45  FS   2020   2022   3    $1,390,000      $1,130,000        
   
$$ - player is in starting lineup, ## - player is inactive.  
   
Players Under Contract: 44
On Active Roster: 44
   
Salary Cap: $179,300,000
Cap Room: $15,060,000
Maximum for New Player: $6,800,000
Cap Room Lost (to old contracts): $13,540,000
   
Cap Room Lost Next Year (to old contracts): $0
Cap Room Required Next Year: $117,000,000

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 01:28 PM

2022 Rookie Draft

We’re keeping our eyes on the top four defensive ends in the draft, and to nobody’s surprise, they are a hot property. Here’s the progress so far:

Code:

1. Mazatlan - Bush, Van, DE, Tulane
2. Ocean City - Mahe, Randy, CB, Florida
3. Niagara Falls - Wolfe, Riddick, DE, Florida
4. Thunder Bay - Dunn, Sammie, DT, Notre Dame
5. Fort Wayne - Wynn, Dixon, T, Brigham Young
6. Wheeling - Westbrook, Gene, DT, Florida
7. Champaign - Tate, Josh, T, Virginia Tech
8. Tulsa - Alexander, Maurice, DE, Northwestern

With that, three of the “big four” are gone, and we face a decision. Dominic Glenn out of Clemson is the “best guy left” (and probably the weakest of the initial foursome) and if we wanted to bring in an impact player at the position, this is the guy.

From what I can see, the best trade offer that Ypsilanti (who is on the clock right now) will consider is to get our pick at #31, plus our picks in rounds 3, 4, and 5 in exchange for the pick at #9 overall. In my mind, that’s really not an absurd deal from our perspective.

I leave it up to the wisdom of the group to consider our options…

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 01:30 PM

O needs from rookies

1: QB an honest to gosh prospect would be nice. Given the time to develop, we might be able to fish a guy out at the start of the second day. A first day type would be nice as well.
1: FB likely cut after pre season
1: TE #3, this guy just needs to block, so a blocking and ST guy would be a good fit
3: WR 1 to develop, 1 who will probably sit inactive, 1 who will probably get cut
1: G anything from budding star to place holder will do.
2: C to compete for #2 spot.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
1: TE #3, this guy just needs to block, so a blocking and ST guy would be a good fit

Since TE Bernard Wayne went unclaimed through the FA process, and we will indeed have the cash to afford him - it's certainly reasonable to think we might drop $1.35m to ink him for another season... or two.

Just in case that factors in. He's a very capable blocker.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Since TE Bernard Wayne went unclaimed through the FA process, and we will indeed have the cash to afford him - it's certainly reasonable to think we might drop $1.35m to ink him for another season... or two.

Just in case that factors in. He's a very capable blocker.

That would be great, but we I am not going to pressure that direction.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 01:40 PM

I'm against trading up. We did get one very solid DE in Free Agency. To give up 4 players for one, I think it is hard to justify. Especially since we have shown that a LB CAN step up and fill the DE position. Since we bolstered the front 7 with DE Manning, I say let it go.

I think areas we need to address include C, S, & WR. So far the first 8 picks have been on the line of scrimmage. I like to pick what others aren't picking, so I say hold the 31st pick and see if a good Center or Safety is available. I don't have the game in front of me so I'm not sure how good C Drake is, but for his salary, I'm guessing he isn't a superstar. Also with Winters retiring and Cicci out of contract, Center is an important area to fill. This is true especially considering we like to run up the middle.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 01:52 PM

As DC, I guess that I should be clamoring for a trade-up. However, giving up 3 players for one is a bit steep.

I would recommend seeing if Glenn falls into the early 20s. If not, let's think of some other options.

The run on DEs in this draft makes me think that, at some point, we will have to bite the bullet and trade into the top 10 to get a good one. I do, not, however, think that the year to do it is the year that we are picking from #31.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 01:53 PM

I don't think we want to mortgage a whole draft just to move up. S may be a good call, considering it isn't a really strong position and besides McNair our safeties are OLD. Cornell Burns looks nice.

Of course, WR Sammie Boone looks like a hell of a weapon...100 3rd down, 100 big play, 100 KR.

edit - get a load of Marco Huerta's RB skills from a pure running standpoint...yikes. Not that we really need another RB.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 01:57 PM

Wow. I was amazed that they wanted so little for the trade. I woudl have jumped on this in a heartbeat.

I will advance the draft a while... if Glenn does indeed slide, we may revisit this shortly.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 02:07 PM

Rookie Draft, continued

Code:

9. Ypsilanti - Golden, Bernie, G, California
10. Providence - Boone, Sammie, WR, Maryland
11. Norfolk - Ekuban, Tracy, T, Texas
12. Tijuana - Clarke, Larry, QB, Rice
13. Sacramento - Glenn, Dominic, DE, Clemson
14. Bermuda - Pasricha, J.R., S, Utah
15. Athens - Chabala, Steven, T, Syracuse
16. Texarkana - Norris, Joel, ILB, Arkansas
17. Pensacola - Hodges, Andrew, ILB, Clemson
18. Napa Valley - Emerson, Harold, DT, Rice
19. Key West - Miller, Barry, ILB, Virginia
20. Manhattan - Giles, Dana, DT, Penn State
21. Puget Sound - Kingsley, D.J., DE, Florida
22. Puget Sound - Poston, Leonard, G, Tulane
23. Death Valley - Concerto, Ronald, T, Army
24. Little Rock - Manning, Ed, QB, Northern Illinois
25. Hawk Mountain - Huerta, Marco, RB, Penn State
26. Memphis - Valdes, Leonard, DE, Rice
27. Cheyenne - Thomas, Kenneth, QB, Virginia Tech
28. Lake Erie - Blair, Cornell, T, UCLA
29. Nashua - Burroughs, Antoine, WR, Georgia Tech
30. Sault Ste. Marie - Halapin, Malcolm, ILB, Miami, Florida

So, the DE goes as slot #13, and the top guys at the position are off the board. I watched the top two guys at center (one of the positions mentioned as a possible target for us) since they both looked pretty worthy to me. I was ready to stop the draft if either was taken – but alas, they both remain available. So, both Kenneth Alston and Glen Frederick are available for us. Both are affinity-neutral.

Safety Cornell Burns is also still on the board, and has been mentioned. Good interceptor, but not great in zone coverage. We are mainly a man-up team, but I don’t know how often the safeties end up in zone anyway. He’s too big to shift to CB, but looks like a potentially valuable contributor.

WR Daryl Anunson looks like the best of his position – solid, good potential as a possession receiver, excellent return skills.

There’s also the predictable array of talent at OL and LB, as is always the case, it seems.

We have some stuff to chew on now.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 02:14 PM

mmmmm a WR....

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 02:16 PM

Mmmmm...a center.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 02:18 PM

Wow, Kingsley and Valdes, who I thought were the best of the "2nd tier" DE's, are already gone. Still a couple of ok ones there, but there sure has been a run on them. I like any of the 4 guys you listed.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 02:20 PM

I'm having trouble sending the file update... it just hangs when I try to upload. Sorry, I'll keep trying.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 02:23 PM

I think we shoudl still select a DE here, despite the various decent-looking players elsewhere. I htinik the guy to take is NT Sam Upshaw, who at 283 lbs is just begging to be converted to play DE - he might even improve.

He looks like a monster pass rusher, potentials of 93 and 77 there. Plus, he has some pretty decent ratings already, which means he could help out now, and also (in many of our minds) seems to make him a less likely bust candidate.

DE remains a "stupid money" position, unlike C and S, and maybe even WR-- we're finding it very hard to sign and retain quality players at that position by way of free agency. Here's a guy who can make a difference for us for years to come, and the single most troubling position on this roster. I say we grab him.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 02:32 PM

Is he tall enough to play end? He's only 6'1". Hmm...actually, just tested Bryan Levine and he would have transitioned to DE at 88%. So I guess it's possible physically.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 02:34 PM

Position switches are guided by weight only. Height is, as far as we know, meaningless in the game.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 02:39 PM

I'm pretty neutral regarding the players mentioned so far. I'd shy away from a WR over a C since we do have receivers who can start and who have started.

Sliding Upshaw to DE is ok wid me. Since I don't have the files in front of me, I'll defer to your guys judgement.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 02:39 PM

I'll vote for Upshaw for the reasons given by Quik.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 02:43 PM

Just want to check on Upshaw - Leadership and sign?

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 02:49 PM

Average (46) and Scorpio. So as long as a Pisces isn't the current leader.

edit: good with Upshaw also.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
I'm pretty neutral regarding the players mentioned so far. I'd shy away from a WR over a C since we do have receivers who can start and who have started.

this is exactly why you take WR early in the draft. He can be a reserve for a year or two then move into a starting role.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
this is exactly why you take WR early in the draft. He can be a reserve for a year or two then move into a starting role.

Or you can go with a position player who can start immediately and make an impact for a few years longer. Then draft your benchwarmer WR in a lower round and let him develop.

Just a different philosophy. Either one can be effective, and neither one is the "right" way.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 03:27 PM

since you have aknowledged that your suggestion is the wrong way, we should should go with the WR.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
since you have aknowledged that your suggestion is the wrong way, we should should go with the WR.

Touche.

And just for that, I submit to Fritz's wishes (for draft purposes only!)

{EDIT: Boy I have a feeling he's gonna Fritz the hell out of that one.}

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 03:43 PM

honestly, I can't see the players, so I am not in a postion to suggest a course of action. Any of the players would be fine.

With our team in fairly good order perhaps we should just go BPA

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 03:54 PM

All - I am like Fritz. Without having the players in front of me, it is difficult to determine which player I like most. How is the depth at each position? Is there a big dropoff with DT's? WR's? C's? If there is in any one of those positions, perhaps that might dictate our pick. If talented WR's are pretty plentiful, then maybe we can pick one up in the 2nd round. Likewise with DT and C.

gkb · 10-07-2003, 05:00 PM

Just a quick interjection here...

First off, I've been lurking throughout your run with the Kitty Hawks. I love what you guys are doing and it's a highly entertaining thread. Keep up the fantastic work!

Second, what the hell does dola mean?

Third, how are you guys feeling about the difficulty of the challenge? It appears that you've had amazing success so far, even with your house rules limitations.

Have you guys considered adding a house rule that does not allow you to use a player out of position? So no more using LB in the DE slots? Unless of course you actually changed them from a LB to a DE. I only ask because I'm wondering if that would make things a bit more challenging for all of you...

That's it...again, keep up the great work. I refuse to read this thread when I'm at home because it keeps me entertained throughout the day while I'm at work.

Carry on men.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gkb
Just a quick interjection here...

First off, I've been lurking throughout your run with the Kitty Hawks. I love what you guys are doing and it's a highly entertaining thread. Keep up the fantastic work!

Second, what the hell does dola mean?

Third, how are you guys feeling about the difficulty of the challenge? It appears that you've had amazing success so far, even with your house rules limitations.

Have you guys considered adding a house rule that does not allow you to use a player out of position? So no more using LB in the DE slots? Unless of course you actually changed them from a LB to a DE. I only ask because I'm wondering if that would make things a bit more challenging for all of you...

That's it...again, keep up the great work. I refuse to read this thread when I'm at home because it keeps me entertained throughout the day while I'm at work.

Carry on men.

Thanks for the nice words.

Dola is a way of indicating that you are making multiple posts in a row. It is named after a former forum member named Dolamite who, among other things, would artifically inflate his post count by

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:13 PM

making

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:13 PM

posts

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:13 PM

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:19 PM

this.

Needless to say, that got annoying. (He also said some pretty funny things about going to a "really prestegious university" that he never named. If anyone has access to the way back machine, it may be worth it to pull up some old Dolamite threads. Those were fun.) For obvious reasons, most people don't use "dola" in a dynasty thread. I do it sometimes here out of habit.

As far as your house rule suggestion goes, I think that it would add to the challenge of the game a lot. And it would not allow us to exploit the system by having DEs that are getting LB salary, etc.. However, I can't speak for Fritz, but a lot of the fun for me is messing with the depth charts and the game plans to see how to get the most out of everyone. I think my job would be a lot less fun without that ability.

Perhaps the change that should occur is that the AI should get better at using the depth chart in this way, so the human does not have an advantage. However, I can see how that would be a BITCH to program, and I am fine with the way things work right now.

I do, however, wish that we could say who should be subbed out in Nickel situations.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 05:21 PM

Oh--and until we win the Super Bowl, I won't complain about the lack of difficulty in the challenge.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 05:27 PM

I hoep everyone who didn't have access to the game during the day will give a look this evening... I think this draft has the potential to be a fairly defining point for our franchise.

Let's keep in mind the possibility that we might want to trade up, and perhaps get two of the players we are currently considering. That is, of course, if we could agree on which two players. I'm guessing that we could deal our 2nd and 3rd picks to get a pick in the earfly 2nd round - which might land us one of the top handful of players currently being discussed. If we could come out of this draft with future star players at WR and DE, I'd be very happy - even if that mean doing without a bunch of riffraff from the middle to late rounds (and instead getting riffraff from after the draft). Let's keep that option on the table.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 05:28 PM

With our leadership rules, my out of position subs tend to be reserves, so I think the main effect would be to force us to do mid season release and signs. I think that would be more of a pain than anything else.

I think some of record is a function of lucky breaks. Perhaps in a season or two we will need to find a way to tighten things up.

Glad you are enjoying the dynasty. Just focusing on a portion of the game has been very rewarding. If you want to hop in, chime in with your thoughts and suggestions.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 06:33 PM

I'm ok with trading 2 and 3 for a higher 2. We are in pretty good shape with our starters, cap, and numbers (IMO) so I'll gladly sacrifice quantity for quality.

I'll try to look at the files after dinner if my daughter isn't on the PC doing homework.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 07:13 PM

On a metagame level... what do we make of WR Al Hartzell? This guys is clearly cut from a different cloth than most others in the draft-- has great ratings in a few areas, and dirt in the rest.

My money says that he gets a lot better over time... and possibly develops into a starting-level player.

Not lobbying for us to take him, just trying to notice some of the scenery along the way. He's an odd player... sort of liike our OT Grolsko was when we took him. Just doesn't look quite like the rest of them.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 07:16 PM

So, am I hearing that it would be a higher priority to get a top rookie WR than a top rookie center? If we made a maneuver to get both the DE and WR, that probably means re-signing Cicci to be our reserve C, and going with our free agent Chuck Drake for this year and perhaps beyond. Is that an acceptable situation, in order to acquire a starting-caliber receiver?

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
So, am I hearing that it would be a higher priority to get a top rookie WR than a top rookie center? If we made a maneuver to get both the DE and WR, that probably means re-signing Cicci to be our reserve C, and going with our free agent Chuck Drake for this year and perhaps beyond. Is that an acceptable situation, in order to acquire a starting-caliber receiver?

I'm not sure as of yet. KNowing Fritz's propensity to run it up the gut, I think a quality center at least needs to be included for consideration.

If this were my team and my team alone, (without looking at players) I would probably shoot for a C and a DT/DE. However, Fritz and I have a difference of philosophy regarding drafting WR's.

Let me look at the files and I'll offer my input.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
I'm having trouble sending the file update... it just hangs when I try to upload. Sorry, I'll keep trying.

QS - Ever have any luck with the upload? It would be a lot easier and quicker to review an updated file.

If still having problems, no worries. Just thought I'd ask since I saw you were online.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 07:55 PM

Again, I can't see the players (until morning). My thought on the WR is that it takes a few years for them to develop, and we will be losing players at that position the next two seasons.

Honestly, I am not to worried about what we pick up. My feeling is that the first team O is already on roster, so everything else is depth/development.

10-07-2003, 12:18 PM	#152
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Didn't know we had a tie. I thought we all pretty much agreed to go with an additional DE. Sign away. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 12:25 PM	#154
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Dola - I was just commenting on the probability a DE would fall to us in the draft...I don't think that will happen. __________________ null

10-07-2003, 01:28 PM	#160
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	2022 Rookie Draft We’re keeping our eyes on the top four defensive ends in the draft, and to nobody’s surprise, they are a hot property. Here’s the progress so far: Code: 1. Mazatlan - Bush, Van, DE, Tulane 2. Ocean City - Mahe, Randy, CB, Florida 3. Niagara Falls - Wolfe, Riddick, DE, Florida 4. Thunder Bay - Dunn, Sammie, DT, Notre Dame 5. Fort Wayne - Wynn, Dixon, T, Brigham Young 6. Wheeling - Westbrook, Gene, DT, Florida 7. Champaign - Tate, Josh, T, Virginia Tech 8. Tulsa - Alexander, Maurice, DE, Northwestern With that, three of the “big four” are gone, and we face a decision. Dominic Glenn out of Clemson is the “best guy left” (and probably the weakest of the initial foursome) and if we wanted to bring in an impact player at the position, this is the guy. From what I can see, the best trade offer that Ypsilanti (who is on the clock right now) will consider is to get our pick at #31, plus our picks in rounds 3, 4, and 5 in exchange for the pick at #9 overall. In my mind, that’s really not an absurd deal from our perspective. I leave it up to the wisdom of the group to consider our options…

10-07-2003, 01:30 PM	#161
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	O needs from rookies 1: QB an honest to gosh prospect would be nice. Given the time to develop, we might be able to fish a guy out at the start of the second day. A first day type would be nice as well. 1: FB likely cut after pre season 1: TE #3, this guy just needs to block, so a blocking and ST guy would be a good fit 3: WR 1 to develop, 1 who will probably sit inactive, 1 who will probably get cut 1: G anything from budding star to place holder will do. 2: C to compete for #2 spot. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 01:40 PM	#164
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	I'm against trading up. We did get one very solid DE in Free Agency. To give up 4 players for one, I think it is hard to justify. Especially since we have shown that a LB CAN step up and fill the DE position. Since we bolstered the front 7 with DE Manning, I say let it go. I think areas we need to address include C, S, & WR. So far the first 8 picks have been on the line of scrimmage. I like to pick what others aren't picking, so I say hold the 31st pick and see if a good Center or Safety is available. I don't have the game in front of me so I'm not sure how good C Drake is, but for his salary, I'm guessing he isn't a superstar. Also with Winters retiring and Cicci out of contract, Center is an important area to fill. This is true especially considering we like to run up the middle. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 12:24 PM	#153
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Oh, and the position strengths lists Little Rock as having the 2nd best DE reserves. Their main reserve? Brad Rosa.

10-07-2003, 12:50 PM	#158
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Desmond Shon finally accepts the offer from Memphis, and will head there for the coming season. In the final weeks of the FA period, we work out three deals. We re-sign LB J.J. Mills, and also pick up two more defensive linemen, to help fill a real need area. DT Bert Guthrie and DE J.C. Sinclair both will move directly into our front seven rotation, and should help out right away. We release DT Brian Levine, who was a threat to our team’s overall harmony – and will depend on the other players in the fold. This brings us to the rookie draft with 44 signed players, and about $8m in open cap room remaining.

10-07-2003, 01:52 PM	#165
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	As DC, I guess that I should be clamoring for a trade-up. However, giving up 3 players for one is a bit steep. I would recommend seeing if Glenn falls into the early 20s. If not, let's think of some other options. The run on DEs in this draft makes me think that, at some point, we will have to bite the bullet and trade into the top 10 to get a good one. I do, not, however, think that the year to do it is the year that we are picking from #31.

10-07-2003, 01:53 PM	#166
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	I don't think we want to mortgage a whole draft just to move up. S may be a good call, considering it isn't a really strong position and besides McNair our safeties are OLD. Cornell Burns looks nice. Of course, WR Sammie Boone looks like a hell of a weapon...100 3rd down, 100 big play, 100 KR. edit - get a load of Marco Huerta's RB skills from a pure running standpoint...yikes. Not that we really need another RB. Last edited by cuervo72 : 10-07-2003 at 01:56 PM.

10-07-2003, 01:57 PM	#167
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Wow. I was amazed that they wanted so little for the trade. I woudl have jumped on this in a heartbeat. I will advance the draft a while... if Glenn does indeed slide, we may revisit this shortly.

10-07-2003, 02:07 PM	#168
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Rookie Draft, continued Code: 9. Ypsilanti - Golden, Bernie, G, California 10. Providence - Boone, Sammie, WR, Maryland 11. Norfolk - Ekuban, Tracy, T, Texas 12. Tijuana - Clarke, Larry, QB, Rice 13. Sacramento - Glenn, Dominic, DE, Clemson 14. Bermuda - Pasricha, J.R., S, Utah 15. Athens - Chabala, Steven, T, Syracuse 16. Texarkana - Norris, Joel, ILB, Arkansas 17. Pensacola - Hodges, Andrew, ILB, Clemson 18. Napa Valley - Emerson, Harold, DT, Rice 19. Key West - Miller, Barry, ILB, Virginia 20. Manhattan - Giles, Dana, DT, Penn State 21. Puget Sound - Kingsley, D.J., DE, Florida 22. Puget Sound - Poston, Leonard, G, Tulane 23. Death Valley - Concerto, Ronald, T, Army 24. Little Rock - Manning, Ed, QB, Northern Illinois 25. Hawk Mountain - Huerta, Marco, RB, Penn State 26. Memphis - Valdes, Leonard, DE, Rice 27. Cheyenne - Thomas, Kenneth, QB, Virginia Tech 28. Lake Erie - Blair, Cornell, T, UCLA 29. Nashua - Burroughs, Antoine, WR, Georgia Tech 30. Sault Ste. Marie - Halapin, Malcolm, ILB, Miami, Florida So, the DE goes as slot #13, and the top guys at the position are off the board. I watched the top two guys at center (one of the positions mentioned as a possible target for us) since they both looked pretty worthy to me. I was ready to stop the draft if either was taken – but alas, they both remain available. So, both Kenneth Alston and Glen Frederick are available for us. Both are affinity-neutral. Safety Cornell Burns is also still on the board, and has been mentioned. Good interceptor, but not great in zone coverage. We are mainly a man-up team, but I don’t know how often the safeties end up in zone anyway. He’s too big to shift to CB, but looks like a potentially valuable contributor. WR Daryl Anunson looks like the best of his position – solid, good potential as a possession receiver, excellent return skills. There’s also the predictable array of talent at OL and LB, as is always the case, it seems. We have some stuff to chew on now.

10-07-2003, 02:14 PM	#169
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	mmmmm a WR.... __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 02:16 PM	#170
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Mmmmm...a center. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 02:18 PM	#171
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Wow, Kingsley and Valdes, who I thought were the best of the "2nd tier" DE's, are already gone. Still a couple of ok ones there, but there sure has been a run on them. I like any of the 4 guys you listed.

10-07-2003, 02:20 PM	#172
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I'm having trouble sending the file update... it just hangs when I try to upload. Sorry, I'll keep trying.

10-07-2003, 02:23 PM	#173
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I think we shoudl still select a DE here, despite the various decent-looking players elsewhere. I htinik the guy to take is NT Sam Upshaw, who at 283 lbs is just begging to be converted to play DE - he might even improve. He looks like a monster pass rusher, potentials of 93 and 77 there. Plus, he has some pretty decent ratings already, which means he could help out now, and also (in many of our minds) seems to make him a less likely bust candidate. DE remains a "stupid money" position, unlike C and S, and maybe even WR-- we're finding it very hard to sign and retain quality players at that position by way of free agency. Here's a guy who can make a difference for us for years to come, and the single most troubling position on this roster. I say we grab him.

10-07-2003, 02:32 PM	#174
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Is he tall enough to play end? He's only 6'1". Hmm...actually, just tested Bryan Levine and he would have transitioned to DE at 88%. So I guess it's possible physically.

10-07-2003, 02:34 PM	#175
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Position switches are guided by weight only. Height is, as far as we know, meaningless in the game.

10-07-2003, 02:39 PM	#176
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	I'm pretty neutral regarding the players mentioned so far. I'd shy away from a WR over a C since we do have receivers who can start and who have started. Sliding Upshaw to DE is ok wid me. Since I don't have the files in front of me, I'll defer to your guys judgement. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz Last edited by Buzzbee : 10-07-2003 at 02:40 PM.

10-07-2003, 02:39 PM	#177
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I'll vote for Upshaw for the reasons given by Quik.

10-07-2003, 02:43 PM	#178
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Just want to check on Upshaw - Leadership and sign? __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 02:49 PM	#179
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Average (46) and Scorpio. So as long as a Pisces isn't the current leader. edit: good with Upshaw also. Last edited by cuervo72 : 10-07-2003 at 02:52 PM.

10-07-2003, 03:27 PM	#182
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	since you have aknowledged that your suggestion is the wrong way, we should should go with the WR. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 03:43 PM	#184
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	honestly, I can't see the players, so I am not in a postion to suggest a course of action. Any of the players would be fine. With our team in fairly good order perhaps we should just go BPA __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 03:54 PM	#185
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	All - I am like Fritz. Without having the players in front of me, it is difficult to determine which player I like most. How is the depth at each position? Is there a big dropoff with DT's? WR's? C's? If there is in any one of those positions, perhaps that might dictate our pick. If talented WR's are pretty plentiful, then maybe we can pick one up in the 2nd round. Likewise with DT and C. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz Last edited by Buzzbee : 10-07-2003 at 03:55 PM.

10-07-2003, 05:00 PM	#186
gkb High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado	Just a quick interjection here... First off, I've been lurking throughout your run with the Kitty Hawks. I love what you guys are doing and it's a highly entertaining thread. Keep up the fantastic work! Second, what the hell does dola mean? Third, how are you guys feeling about the difficulty of the challenge? It appears that you've had amazing success so far, even with your house rules limitations. Have you guys considered adding a house rule that does not allow you to use a player out of position? So no more using LB in the DE slots? Unless of course you actually changed them from a LB to a DE. I only ask because I'm wondering if that would make things a bit more challenging for all of you... That's it...again, keep up the great work. I refuse to read this thread when I'm at home because it keeps me entertained throughout the day while I'm at work. Carry on men. __________________ BALLERZ YO, fo shizzle. - QuikSand

10-07-2003, 05:13 PM	#188
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	making

10-07-2003, 05:13 PM	#189
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	posts

10-07-2003, 05:13 PM	#190
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	like

10-07-2003, 05:19 PM	#191
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	this. Needless to say, that got annoying. (He also said some pretty funny things about going to a "really prestegious university" that he never named. If anyone has access to the way back machine, it may be worth it to pull up some old Dolamite threads. Those were fun.) For obvious reasons, most people don't use "dola" in a dynasty thread. I do it sometimes here out of habit. As far as your house rule suggestion goes, I think that it would add to the challenge of the game a lot. And it would not allow us to exploit the system by having DEs that are getting LB salary, etc.. However, I can't speak for Fritz, but a lot of the fun for me is messing with the depth charts and the game plans to see how to get the most out of everyone. I think my job would be a lot less fun without that ability. Perhaps the change that should occur is that the AI should get better at using the depth chart in this way, so the human does not have an advantage. However, I can see how that would be a BITCH to program, and I am fine with the way things work right now. I do, however, wish that we could say who should be subbed out in Nickel situations.

10-07-2003, 05:21 PM	#192
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Oh--and until we win the Super Bowl, I won't complain about the lack of difficulty in the challenge.

10-07-2003, 05:27 PM	#193
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I hoep everyone who didn't have access to the game during the day will give a look this evening... I think this draft has the potential to be a fairly defining point for our franchise. Let's keep in mind the possibility that we might want to trade up, and perhaps get two of the players we are currently considering. That is, of course, if we could agree on which two players. I'm guessing that we could deal our 2nd and 3rd picks to get a pick in the earfly 2nd round - which might land us one of the top handful of players currently being discussed. If we could come out of this draft with future star players at WR and DE, I'd be very happy - even if that mean doing without a bunch of riffraff from the middle to late rounds (and instead getting riffraff from after the draft). Let's keep that option on the table.

10-07-2003, 05:28 PM	#194
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	With our leadership rules, my out of position subs tend to be reserves, so I think the main effect would be to force us to do mid season release and signs. I think that would be more of a pain than anything else. I think some of record is a function of lucky breaks. Perhaps in a season or two we will need to find a way to tighten things up. Glad you are enjoying the dynasty. Just focusing on a portion of the game has been very rewarding. If you want to hop in, chime in with your thoughts and suggestions. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 06:33 PM	#195
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	I'm ok with trading 2 and 3 for a higher 2. We are in pretty good shape with our starters, cap, and numbers (IMO) so I'll gladly sacrifice quantity for quality. I'll try to look at the files after dinner if my daughter isn't on the PC doing homework. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 07:13 PM	#196
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	On a metagame level... what do we make of WR Al Hartzell? This guys is clearly cut from a different cloth than most others in the draft-- has great ratings in a few areas, and dirt in the rest. My money says that he gets a lot better over time... and possibly develops into a starting-level player. Not lobbying for us to take him, just trying to notice some of the scenery along the way. He's an odd player... sort of liike our OT Grolsko was when we took him. Just doesn't look quite like the rest of them.