Alright boyz, here we go (OOTP6 Thoughts!)

[CentralMassHokie]

Is there any way to start a league with the current MLB setup (cities/stadiums/affiliates), but with fictional players?

It seems like an awful pain to go through and add affiliates for each of the teams, but then again, I've been through league creation like 3 times.

For instance, don't accidentally name your league the same as an existing league. You'll get a nice "you already have a league by that name" and then get unceremoniously booted out of league creation, losing all of your changes.

And editing city/team names is ridiculous. Standard windows controls exist for a reason, I don't understand why OOTP still refuses to use them.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Why? It has always been that way - just like every single sports text sims out there - some find the game fun, some don't for many reasons. For example, I find FOF SP to be the least immersive text sim I have ever played but OOTP4 and 5 to be the most immersive. Others are just the opposite, which is understandable. Every one who has an interest must determine whether a game connects or not. With OOTP, it can be current real players or online leagues only or historical eras (that's where I only connect) or PbP or modeling a softball league or whatever. The good thing is that the game gives many options for many of us to find that connection unlike some other games (text sims or strategy games) that says play it my way or don't play it all.

Yea', I wasn't complaining or anything. It's just not my cup of tea. For people who are patient (and don't mind a lot of mouseclicks) the game could be very, very fun. However, I like to be able to move along at a brisk pace in single player mode, and that just doesn't seem feasible to me with OOTP. I mean, I can quicksim, but then I don't know my team at all.

I'll stick with multiplayer, I think, and still get my $25 worth out of the game.

As for single player, maybe next time.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Why? It has always been that way - just like every single sports text sims out there - some find the game fun, some don't for many reasons. For example, I find FOF SP to be the least immersive text sim I have ever played but OOTP4 and 5 to be the most immersive. Others are just the opposite, which is understandable. Every one who has an interest must determine whether a game connects or not. With OOTP, it can be current real players or online leagues only or historical eras (that's where I only connect) or PbP or modeling a softball league or whatever. The good thing is that the game gives many options for many of us to find that connection unlike some other games (text sims or strategy games) that says play it my way or don't play it all.

Well, I find ootp5 immersive.. and I want v6 to be much more immersive than v5, if it's basically the same.. well, I don't know?

Boy, people are quit to bitch at me this week.

Todd

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

Is there any way to start a league with the current MLB setup (cities/stadiums/affiliates), but with fictional players?

If you create a custom league, with 2 leagues and 3 divisions, by default the cities you get will be the ML cities. Im not sure if the minor league team names would be the same tho.

[HornedFrog Purple]

heh one of my players is out for 6 weeks having surgery for back spasms

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

Is there any way to start a league with the current MLB setup (cities/stadiums/affiliates), but with fictional players?

It seems like an awful pain to go through and add affiliates for each of the teams, but then again, I've been through league creation like 3 times.

For instance, don't accidentally name your league the same as an existing league. You'll get a nice "you already have a league by that name" and then get unceremoniously booted out of league creation, losing all of your changes.

And editing city/team names is ridiculous. Standard windows controls exist for a reason, I don't understand why OOTP still refuses to use them.

Just begin a "standard" league.

[CentralMassHokie]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Just begin a "standard" league.

Except a standard league comes with the "real" players. No, they aren't named Albert Pujols and Pedro Martinez, but that's who they are.

I want a standard league with a fictional player file. I don't think that's possible right off the bat.

Still, my biggest gripe is those horrible text entry boxes. I honestly don't know how those get through testing. There *has* to be a better edit box available.

[sabotai]

I want a standard league with a fictional player file. I don't think that's possible right off the bat.

I think the default setup for creating a Custom League is the MLB setup (I would think it is, anyway). Just go to Custom League, Set it to create fictional players, and wha-la.

[Ksyrup]

OK, if I'm playing with ability ratings not showing, and talent ratings at 2-8, when I go to the amateur draft, what are the ratings I am being shown? They appear to be on a 1-10 scale. Is this talent ratings? Why aren't they on a 2-8 scale, or whatever scale I've chosen?

[CentralMassHokie]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I think the default setup for creating a Custom League is the MLB setup (I would think it is, anyway). Just go to Custom League, Set it to create fictional players, and wha-la.

But lacking the team stadiums and affiliates. I know it's minor stuff, but bleh. It's just too much typing with that crappy text entry widget.

That being said, I'm looking at my roster now. Time to start building my team.

[Ksyrup]

Big difference in sim speed without my anti-virus protection enabled...

2 league, 20 teams, with anti-virus enabled - 25 minutes; without - 11 minutes.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

But lacking the team stadiums and affiliates. I know it's minor stuff, but bleh. It's just too much typing with that crappy text entry widget.

That being said, I'm looking at my roster now. Time to start building my team.

copy park.dat and parkconfig.dat from one league to another.

[Huckleberry]

Could we get one character added to the Playoff Round names? "League Championship Serie" still doesn't look right.

[kingnebwsu]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Craig, I don't know how much of a role this plays during the playoffs, but I'm pretty sure the computer ends up throwing their starters on 3 days rest all the time, where as in real life, most pitchers take a big hit when they have to throw on less than full rest. This may have been changed in OOTP6, but I know in past versions, the fact that you could get away with a 3 man rotation instead of having to use their 4th starter in the playoffs had a big effect.

-Mike

This could end up being part of the problem. I saw it all this time and it never really registered as a "problem" to me. I just accepted it as part of the game. But yes, starting the best pitchers on 3 days of rest could statistically alter the outcome, in some cases by a lot.

[kingnebwsu]

I just did a 20-year study on OOTP 6. I recorded the records of the two teams in the world series, and also how the team with the best overall record did in the playoffs. Here are the results:

91-71 over 90-72 (106-56 out in WC)
92-70 over 84-78 (102-60 out in LCS)
99-63 over 90-72 (99-63 won WS)
87-75 over 87-76 (90-72's out in WC)
91-72 over 91-71 (92-70's out in WC)
88-74 over 90-72 (91-71's out in WC)
94-68 over 87-75 (95-67 out in LCS)
92-70 over 90-72 (94-68 out in WC)
85-77 over 84-78 (93-69 out in LCS)
97-65 over 87-75 (97-65 won WS)
92-70 over 90-72 (95-67 out in LCS)
89-73 over 100-62 (100-62 out in WS)
86-76 over 89-73 (100-62 out in WC (SWEPT!))
84-78 over 88-75 (95-67 out in WC)
96-66 over 102-60 (102-60 out in WS) (100-62 also swept in WC)
82-80 over 87-75 (109-53 out in WC to 82-80)
92-70 over 88-74 (95-67 out in LCS)
87-75 over 87-75 (94-68 out in WC)
89-73 over 91-71 (96-66 out in LCS, 81-81 team swept 92-70 in WC)
104-58 over 101-61 (104-58 won WS)

In twenty years, of the 23 teams with/tied for the best overall record:

THREE teams with the best overall record won the world series.
TWELVE teams lost in the wild-card round
SIX teams lost in the LCS
TWO teams lost in the World Series

Other interesting notes from the 23 teams with/tied for the best overall record:

ONE 100-win team won the World Series
THREE 100-win teams lost in the wild-card round

I think this moderate sample proves that the postseason results are definitely off. As I play OOTP 6, I'll try and figure out what is causing the problem (if I don't throw it out the window first when my 110-win team gets swept out of the WC round). This is just a quick-sim I did while I was at work. It'll be even worse once I get my 100+ win teams going every year...and watching them lose...

[Schedule Junkie]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Where do I get that schedule generator? My team is off on Sunday, Wednesday and Saturday one week.

My first post here, and a timely one it seems, as my schedule expertise is needed.

If you think that kind of schedule is weird, you ought to see the REAL major league original schedules from the 1960's and earlier, particularly the schedules from the 16 team MLB era. They have things FAR more weird in them than what you've mentioned, and those were the ACTUAL schedules planned for the seasons.

I should know this, as I gathered ALL of the real major league schedules and digitized the lot of them. The results of my efforts have just recently started appearing on the Retrosheet web site.

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Do a search on Stickware - it's an excellent utility that writes directly into OOTP format.

Or use the schedule importer and use real schedules. Unfortunately, it seems that the importer is not working properly yet. However, it has finally been included in the game, so hopefully any problems with it will get sorted out soon.

[Schedule Junkie]

Originally Posted by sttfrk

I'd hate to see a home field advantage factor added. If anything, I'd rather see the AI teams build their teams with some regard to their home stadium. This, more than anything, would give a "home field" advantage and should translate to a higher home field winning percentage in both the regular season and playoffs.

To artificially add a home field advantage would drastically reduce realism IMO.

I must strongly disagree here. The idea that tailoring a team to its home park is the sole reason for a team to do better at home is incorrect. There must be far more influences at work for the numbers to be produced that MLB has produced over the years.

Consider this fact: from 1901-2002, a full 83% of all of those major league teams finished the season with a better winning percentage at home than it had on the road. That's four out of five teams over 102 seasons. And this is across teams of all types of overall winning percentages.

I can guarantee you if you ran a 100 year sim in OOTP and added up the numbers of teams finishing better at home as compared to those finishing better on the road, you won't find anything anywhere near the real MLB figure of 83%.

***

About the playoff results problem, I think a possible factor is being overlooked. All the sim results posted are from 3 division leagues playing (presumably) the current MLB style of divisionally weighted schedule. If so, then it is this schedule which can artificially inflate a team's W-L record. If it happens to play in a small, weak division then its win total will be helped quite nicely over a team who played in a division full of tough opponents. The current MLB schedules are horrid affairs, with teams even in the same division playing the same opponents an unequal number of times thanks to interleague play and the unbalanced divisional structures between the leagues. Using them as a basis for good comparisons between the W-L records between opponents is, I would submit, a flawed premise.

I would suggest this alternative to remove the possibility of scheduling issues affecting the W-L records: run a long term sim using two leagues each split into two 6 team divisions playing the same schedule format used by MLB during its time with this alignment. Doing this will eliminate much of the possibly distortions introduced by the majors' current scheduling system and should produce a much more fair study of any possible post-season resolution problems.

[Shkspr]

Hey, except for that whole "game crashes about halfway into the season" bug I keep experiencing, this game'd be pretty fun.

[Raven]

Is anyone else a little dissapointed that this looks like the same girl with a new dress?

The interface is exactly the same. They changed the skin a little bit, but didn't add anything new to "toy with". All the team options and player options, are a photocopy of v5.

You still get the exact same stats menus. From the main roster screen, why can't you see L/R splits? All we get is L/R Avg and OPS, and overall stats. When setting my lineups, it would be nice if I could see complete vs LHP/RHP splits including ABs, Hs, 2Bs, HRs, Ks etc without having to go through each player, or sort through a clunky HTML page.

It would also be nice to see entire league databases by ratings. ie Who are considered the best power hitters in the league? Top 5 in stuff? Fastest runners? I know this is where the scouts should come in to play, but couldn't these be added and just call them 3rd party companies ratings (ala ESPN or something similar)?


Why do you have to go to the trade screen to search for players by ratings? What do you do when the trade deadline has passed, and you get locked out of there? (I dont know if this has been fixed in v6, but it was the case in v5)

Just some thoughts.

[SackAttack]

With my team on the wrong end of an 18-4 blowout, the AI brings my closer in for the 9th inning.

That's not good.

[Ben E Lou]

Raven:

I beg to differ. I'd say it is a different girl, but with the same hair color and eyes and wearing the same dress. When you first look at her, you think she's the same chick you went out with last week, but she isn't. What I mean by that is that on the surface (interface/look) things are very similar to OOTP5. I'm finding that underneath things are quite different though.

[Ben E Lou]

Are star ratings working differently? I have a 2.0 blue-star SP who is listed as the #94 prospect in the nation.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola: Actually it looks like starting pitching prospects are weighted more highly than other positions. I'd be curious for Craig to comment if this was an intentional change.

[kingnebwsu]

Originally Posted by Schedule Junkie

I would suggest this alternative to remove the possibility of scheduling issues affecting the W-L records: run a long term sim using two leagues each split into two 6 team divisions playing the same schedule format used by MLB during its time with this alignment. Doing this will eliminate much of the possibly distortions introduced by the majors' current scheduling system and should produce a much more fair study of any possible post-season resolution problems.

Fair enough, I just started this. I got plans all-day Saturday, so the 100 year sim should be done by Sat. night when I go to play again. It probably will take me a bit to analyze all of the data though

[Schedule Junkie]

Sounds like it'll be interesting. Just don't use an OOTP-generated schedule for your league, because it likely won't have the proper setup of matches between the opponents. Unfortunately, while I have schedule files on hand that are appropriate for this league setup, the format is not compatible at present with OOTP's schedule importer. That leaves manual entry, and that is a long and tedious affair.

You also have to choose between either a best-of-5 series length for the LCS or a best-of-7. I'd suggest splitting the difference and do the first 50 years with a best-of-5 and then the following 50 years with a best-of-7. It might be interesting to see if the shorter series produces more upsets on average.

[Chief Rum]

Anyone else getting duration for pitchers just disappearing? It's really screwing with the single-player universe I am running.

I know a problem was pointed out about OOTP5 leagues being converted to OOTP6 and with starters needing to be set to SP roles, but I haven't seen anything yet about OOTP6 original leagues losing duration.

BTW, I confirmed it's both pitchers that were generated at the beginning (fictional, not default) and newly drafted players as well.

CR

[Ksyrup]

There are definitely way too many guys starting 36-40 games a year on the default settings.

[Tekneek]

I think this moderate sample proves that the postseason results are definitely off. As I play OOTP 6, I'll try and figure out what is causing the problem (if I don't throw it out the window first when my 110-win team gets swept out of the WC round). This is just a quick-sim I did while I was at work. It'll be even worse once I get my 100+ win teams going every year...and watching them lose...

Since the creation of the Divisional Series (aka "Wild Card Round"), the MLB team with the best regular season record has done this :

2003 - 2 teams tied (101-61) - 1 lost in Divisional Series, 1 lost in World Series
2002 - (103-58) - Lost in Divisional Series
2001 - (116-46) - Lost in ALCS
2000 - (97-65) - Lost in Divisional Series
1999 - (103-59) - Lost in World Series
1998 - (114-48) - Won World Series
1997 - (101-61) - Lost in NLCS
1996 - (99-62) - Lost in Divisional Series
1995 - (100-44) - Lost in World Series

Ok. 10 teams. 4 of them did make it to the World Series. The same number lost out in the Wild Card round.

Since the institution of the "Divisional Series", there have been 15 teams with more than 100 wins in a season. Of those, only 1 of them managed to win the World Series.

If you are doing anything like capping cash, setting salary caps, and any other artificial financial limitations, you should expect the top teams to face stiffer competition in a series (IMHO). While they hold an advantage in the marathon of the regular season, the teams may be tighter in a post-season series. After looking at the MLB data, I don't have as much of a problem with your twenty season sample as you seem to.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There are definitely way too many guys starting 36-40 games a year on the default settings.

I ran 1901 twice. The first year one guy got 63 starts. The next time I ran it there was not an unusually high number of starts across the entire league. I made no adjustments to any settings, and pulled from the same DB.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No, no. Will *generally* win. I've never argued that it always happens that way - simply that the underdog wins much less frequently in "real life" than it seems to in OOTP, and if we're looking for an accurate simulation of the sport, then that needs to be looked at.

I'm not suggesting the underdog should never win, but I AM suggesting that there are just a few too many examples in OOTP of teams that should be dominant becoming the Atlanta Braves of their particular era.

I hate doing it but, *sigh*. You cannot see from my statement of 7/34 that of course it meant the underdog can sometimes win?

Obviously, IRL there is a correlation between having a 10+ record and winning. In this version, it appears that the *best* team is winning (this will probably cause you another question mark) or, at least, the team that uses the right line-ups.

IOW, it seems that IRL, the coaches will obviously pull out only their Best-and-brightest for the playoffs even going as far to play a great pitcher more than once during the series. If OOTP uses the same algorithms in the playoffs and the regular season (as opposed to retooling to use only the best pitching staff, pushing if need be, etc.) i can see how things might be skewed or seem random.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by Raven

It would also be nice to see entire league databases by ratings. ie Who are considered the best power hitters in the league? Top 5 in stuff? Fastest runners? I know this is where the scouts should come in to play, but couldn't these be added and just call them 3rd party companies ratings (ala ESPN or something similar)

You can do that - and have been since OOTP5.

Go into the "Almanac", then click on "Display all players of league". Should be able to find what you are looking for there.

[kingnebwsu]

One helluva game...I guess...

4/15/2044, 326 Ks, Nicholas Mahlum (ORL), 196.1 IP, 7 HA, 3 ER, 2 BB
4/15/2044, 462 Ks, Jorge Orozco (MIN), 198.0 IP, 6 HA, 1 ER, 1 BB

The game lasts almost 200 freakin' innings and they both only give up 4 runs TOTAL?!?!? WTF?!?!?!? I'm in 2045, otherwise I'd have the box score A big error has definitely occurred though. The game happened with AB's for everyone and everything. Some of the MIN guys had 72 AB's that game. Scary stuff.

I'm sure that game will be on ESPN Classic forever

[Tekneek]

198 innings? How do you deal with that? Does Markus need to put in a rule that if the teams are still even after, say, 50 innings, somebody gets a free run and its over?

[HornedFrog Purple]

4/15/2044, 462 Ks, Jesse Orosco (MIN), 198.0 IP, 6 HA, 1 ER, 1 BB

Wow... what is he, 98 years old?

[HornedFrog Purple]

if you take an average of 3 hours per 9 innings, that game took 2 days and 18 hours of nonstop baseball

[GoSeahawks]

Schedule Junkie,

Are you LeGrande Orange over at the OOTP boards?

[Carligula]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

With my team on the wrong end of an 18-4 blowout, the AI brings my closer in for the 9th inning.

That's not good.

I don't have the game and I'm not getting it, but that's not totally unreasonable. Teams do that on occasion to get the closer some work if he hasn't pitched in a while... some of Eddie Guardado's appearances last season:

4/20, 9th inning of an 8-2 loss
6/1, 9th inning of a 9-5 loss
7/13, 9th inning of an 8-3 loss

OTOH, if your closer had pitched recently, I'd call that a problem...

[HighandOutside]

OK, I was about to play the 5th game of my season against the White Sox and I noticed they were starting a tired pitcher. The guy (Arellano) had started the first game of the season for them, 4 days ago, and threw 104 pitches. I wonder to myself, "self, why aren't they starting their 5th starter who should be rested?". Well, I look at the White Sox roster and their 5th starter (Brown) is tired..He is said to have thrown 114 pitches in the opener..the same game that Arellano started. Oddly, Brown is not recorded as having pitched in that game according to the box score. Nor, do this his personal stats show any innings pitched. Moreover, Arellano is not Chi's #1 starter, so he should not have started the opener to begin with...odd. Not sure if this is a bug or what, but the White Sox do not have a rested starter to pitch the 5th game of the season..(also, Chi. has made no trades thus far, so that is not the issue.)

Let me note. I did Reset this league once, 2 games into the season. However, the same issue has not occured with my pitchers (Tigers)

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by HighandOutside

Let me note. I did Reset this league once, 2 games into the season. However, the same issue has not occured with my pitchers (Tigers)

I have not seen this exact issue, but similar sorts of oddities when I have "reset" a league that had already started playing (in OOTP5, and even OOTP4). While they seem to have 'reset' to the beginning of the season, apparently not all of the players got the memo and some are tired from the phantom games. If I think I may need to reset to the beginning of a season, I've found it more reliable to 'backup' the unstarted season and use that to restore from (rather than doing a reset).

[HighandOutside]

this is odd, the Chicago Cubs have the same issue (with a few slight differences). They were about to ignore their 5th starter and start their tired number 1 starter. This time, the 5th starter was not tired and they had started their number 1 guy in the opener. All the other teams in the league are using their well rested number 5 starter for the 5th game of the season.

[HighandOutside]

Thanks Tekneek, by using the editor I have straightened these two teams out..so I hope all runs smoothly from here.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by HighandOutside

this is odd, the Chicago Cubs have the same issue (with a few slight differences). They were about to ignore their 5th starter and start their tired number 1 starter. This time, the 5th starter was not tired and they had started their number 1 guy in the opener. All the other teams in the league are using their well rested number 5 starter for the 5th game of the season.

Maybe it depends on what rotation type has been selected for that team?

[korme]

Great discussion guys, this thread can provide a ton for Markus and Co. ton work with.

[HighandOutside]

Tekneek,

All the teams have the same rotation rule. I've edited the problems with the Chicago teams and hopefully its just a hiccup from resetting the league. Got to love that they made this game so easy to edit.

[Ben E Lou]

Bump...un-stick....archived.

[Ksyrup]

I had my first crash. I left the game to sim for the morning and afternoon, and when I got back, it had shut down on August 9, 2018 (when I left, it was in 2009). I'm pretty sure Bud Selig was no longer the commish, so it wasn't a work stoppage. The standings were unaffected, but the player stats were missing 100 or so ABs by the end of the season when I ran the rest of the sim. The league leaders all had in the mid-400's for ABs. Definitely a bummer.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I left the game to sim for the morning and afternoon, and when I got back, it had shut down on August 9, 2018 (when I left, it was in 2009).

I seem to have this problem with any sim that I leave running like that. It always crashes and screws something up to the point that it is useless.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I seem to have this problem with any sim that I leave running like that. It always crashes and screws something up to the point that it is useless.

Me 3. If my screensaver comes up, I get hosed.

[Chief Rum]

Ditto on the screensaver problems. I would turn that off if I were you guys.

Did anyone see my problems with pitcher durability? Just wondering if this has already been encountered and dealt with somehow.

CR

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Carligula

I don't have the game and I'm not getting it, but that's not totally unreasonable. Teams do that on occasion to get the closer some work if he hasn't pitched in a while... some of Eddie Guardado's appearances last season:

4/20, 9th inning of an 8-2 loss
6/1, 9th inning of a 9-5 loss
7/13, 9th inning of an 8-3 loss

OTOH, if your closer had pitched recently, I'd call that a problem...

He had just worked 2 innings the previous game: the 9th, during which he gave up 2 homers, and the 10th. On top of that, it was the 3rd game of the season. So you'd think it'd be his day off, but nope.