FOFC Draft: The Four Sport Challenge - Best Athletes in History

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

2.8 Jackie Robinson, baseball

Interesting pick. Certainly a person who ranks high on a lot of greatest athletes lists.

To me it also raises a question as to what do we look for in a great athlete. Jackie Robinson was an athlete, no doubt. He had speed and he was a great baseball player. Probably could have been successful in football too. But almost everyone agrees that he was not the best player in the Negro Leagues at the time he broke the color barrier, and while he put up solid numbers, the fact that he entered the majors at 28 kept him from having a long career. And as good as he was in those 10 years in the majors, like in the Negro Leagues, there were guys better than him.

But he accomplished something that transcended sports and paved the way for minority athletes across the board -- and probably outside athletics as well. So do you consider social achievements part of athletic greatness?

I suppose I'm in that category, in that I strongly consider Jackie Robinson and drafted Lance Armstrong not merely for his athletic accomplishments but for the obstacle he overcame to achieve them.

[Maple Leafs]

I think my cards are on the table... with Ali and now Robinson, I'm looking for more than just "really good player" with my early picks. This may help or hurt me in the voting, we'll see.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I think my cards are on the table... with Ali and now Robinson, I'm looking for more than just "really good player" with my early picks. This may help or hurt me in the voting, we'll see.

So yor next pick will be Michelle Wie?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

So yor next pick will be Michelle Wie?

Guy, shut up, no discussing future picks.

[TazFTW]

With the 9th pick in the 2nd round, Team Taz selects

Patrick Roy, Hockey

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

With the 9th pick in the 2nd round, Team Taz selects

Patrick Roy, Hockey

You must like the hockey. Nothing wrong with that.

[Karlifornia]

Even liking hockey..I could think of at least one other hockey player I would have taken over him. I suppose he may be the greatest goaltender of all time, though.

[vtbub]

Roy's a good value pick.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by RadioFriendlyUnitShifter

Even liking hockey..I could think of at least one other hockey player I would have taken over him. I suppose he may be the greatest goaltender of all time, though.

I know who you're thinking of and I decided to take Roy over him because Roy is the greatest goaltender of all time. Most important position on the ice.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I know who you're thinking of and I decided to take Roy over him because Roy is the greatest goaltender of all time. Most important position on the ice.

In that regard, it is certainly a good selection. I'm an old school guy, so if I had to pick the greatest goalied of all-time I'd go with somebody like but then again no one would know who the hell he was.

[Raiders Army]

My turn's coming up again! Can't wait!

Edit--And I get two picks...bam, bam.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

My turn's coming up again! Can't wait!

Not before I steal your guy. The you steal the guy I want in the 3rd round.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Not before I steal your guy. The you steal the guy I want in the 3rd round.

I have three guys in mind right now in two different sports...steal away.

[DaddyTorgo]

my turn isn't coming up again FOREVER. I feel like it'll be Tuesday night before I pick again. Jeezus.

edit:

and i think we need to do a "summary" sort of thing for people to post at the bottom of their picks, because having to scroll through and see who was picked/keep up with it on a pick-by-pick basis has gotta be killing others and will kill me i'm sure

[Raiders Army]

Post #1 seems to be updated pretty well, thanks to Schmidty. I just scroll until I see when I'm supposed to pick. Just me, I guess. *shrug*

Edit-And I see General Mike and Herd are both in the thread, so I may be passing it back to them here in a few minutes.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Post #1 seems to be updated pretty well, thanks to Schmidty. I just scroll until I see when I'm supposed to pick. Just me, I guess. *shrug*

Edit-And I see General Mike and Herd are both in the thread, so I may be passing it back to them here in a few minutes.

oh. i wasn't seeing that post #1 is updated. probably because i have my default settings setup so that it starts with "last post first"

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why? This is a draft of the best athletes in history, not the most athletic.

I see only two of them taken so far. Owens was a good value pick at 1.9, but Lewis in the 2nd round was kind of a reach, I think.

Pele in the second round? Steal of the draft if this wasn't on a US sports centered board. In that regard, it's even more interesting that Lance Armstrong goes as the first cyclist. From a historical point of view, it's pretty hard to even argue that he belongs in the all-time top5 of his sport. It's pretending like cycling didn't start until the mid 1990's. But in this crowd, I think Armstrong in the second round is a pretty good value pick and worth a lot more than Pele taken half a round earlier.

Gretzky #2 overall? I wouldn't expect an ice hockey player to go that high, but then, it's Gretzky, he's got the legend going of being the best all time and he's from a recent history. He should be the second best valued player behind Michael Jordan.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

In that regard, it's even more interesting that Lance Armstrong goes as the first cyclist. From a historical point of view, it's pretty hard to even argue that he belongs in the all-time top5 of his sport. It's pretending like cycling didn't start until the mid 1990's.

Please explain further, because as a non-cycling fan, I don't understand the history.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Pele in the second round? Steal of the draft if this wasn't on a US sports centered board.

I thought he would definitely go earlier. He was arguably the best player in his sport that was worldwide.

Edit--I'll be back in a little while to see if Mike and Herd have picked.

[DaddyTorgo]

i debated Pele at 2 (1) but then I realized that there are many intelligent sports fans on this board and hopefully they will outweigh those who do not realize the greatness of Pele.

[Schmidty]

Just for people that have missed it, you can easily find who has been picked and who has the next pick, by looking at the 1st post on th page.

[General Mike]

am I on the clock? I thought I wasn't but Now I think I am. help?

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by General Mike

am I on the clock? I thought I wasn't but Now I think I am. help?

Yes you are on the clock.

[General Mike]

sorry for the delay ladies and gentlemen.

2.10 Gordie Howe (Hockey)

[ThunderingHERD]

2.11 Mario Lemieux (Hockey)

[oykib]

I don't think Carl Lewis was a reach. I think he's third behind Owens and Thorpe as a track and field athlete. And when you get down to it, Track and Field is athletics. Well, that and combat sports, which makes Ali a great pick,as well.

With the second round being almost over, I have to say that with the exception of Jordan, Ruth, and Gretsky I'd have stayed away from the big four in the first few rounds. There is too much value in those because everyone knows who those players are. The 'other' area has large dropoffs because no one knows any soccer players besides Pele. This is a popularity contest after all.

[DaddyTorgo]

grrrr...i have so long to go before i pick again!!!

[Raiders Army]

My turn (and DaddyT, know how you feel). I'm going against what okyib is saying and going with my gut on these picks.

Round 2.12: Joe Montana, Football.

Unlike RBs, the QB touches the ball every down (well, maybe not 4th). The Catch was thrown by Montana. Won a national title at Notre Dame as well as Superbowls (beating another QB who had thrown for a league-high 48 TDs in the regular season).

Round 3.1: Nolan Ryan, Baseball.

Hall of Fame plaque states: A fierce competitor and one of baseball's most intimidating figures on the pitching mound for four decades. His overpowering fastball and unparalleled longevity produced 324 victories and a host of major league records. Lifetime benchmarks include 5,714 strikeouts, seven no-hitters and a12 one-hitters in 27 seasons pitched. Led league in strikeouts 11 times and fanned 300 batters in a season on six occasions, including a record 383 in 1973. Strikeout victims totaled 1,176 different players. A Texas legend whose widespread popularity extended far beyond his native state.

[ThunderingHERD]

3.2 Wilt Chamberlain

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

3.2 Wilt Chamberlain

Daddy took Wilt with pick 1.12

[DaddyTorgo]

wilt is way past gone. round one baby! how can you not pick earlier a guy who was a track star early in life and then became the greatest NBA player of all time, revolutionized the way the game was played, went to the All-Star game nearly every year (16 or 17 times?).

[ThunderingHERD]

whoops, sorry. I'm an idiot. 1 sec and i'll pick

[ThunderingHERD]

Lets try this again:

Ted Williams.

[General Mike]

3.3 Magic Johnson (basketball)

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

My turn (and DaddyT, know how you feel). I'm going against what okyib is saying and going with my gut on these picks.

Round 2.12: Joe Montana, Football.

Unlike RBs, the QB touches the ball every down (well, maybe not 4th). The Catch was thrown by Montana. Won a national title at Notre Dame as well as Superbowls (beating another QB who had thrown for a league-high 48 TDs in the regular season).

Good Pick. I'd probably have waited as there are other QBs that give you about as much value-- as well as there being players left in Football that are clear #1s at their respective positions. But you can't really argue with Montana.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Round 3.1: Nolan Ryan, Baseball.

Hall of Fame plaque states: A fierce competitor and one of baseball's most intimidating figures on the pitching mound for four decades. His overpowering fastball and unparalleled longevity produced 324 victories and a host of major league records. Lifetime benchmarks include 5,714 strikeouts, seven no-hitters and a12 one-hitters in 27 seasons pitched. Led league in strikeouts 11 times and fanned 300 batters in a season on six occasions, including a record 383 in 1973. Strikeout victims totaled 1,176 different players. A Texas legend whose widespread popularity extended far beyond his native state.

Can't go with you here, though. There are at least ten pitchers that were so far ahead of Ryan that he isn't even in the same argument with them. That's not to mention the tens of pitchers where it's arguable, but are still better than Ryan.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by General Mike

3.3 Magic Johnson (basketball)

[TazFTW]

dola

With the fourth pick of the third round, Team Taz selects

Joe Louis, Other/Boxing

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by oykib

Can't go with you here, though. There are at least ten pitchers that were so far ahead of Ryan that he isn't even in the same argument with them. That's not to mention the tens of pitchers where it's arguable, but are still better than Ryan.

Not that it's a good barometer, but Nolan Ryan was voted into the Hall of Fame with 98.79% of the ballots. There has only been one player in the history of baseball with a greater percentage. Some others who were picked in this draft's percentages:

Ty Cobb        98.2%
Babe Ruth      95.1%
Willie Mays    94.7%
Ted Williams   93.4%

[Maple Leafs]

I'm badly out of my element when it comes to basketball -- I just don't follow it. I think that means I need to make some picks there early, when I've actually heard of the guy, rather than try to wait until the end.

3.5 Bill Russell, basketball

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Please explain further, because as a non-cycling fan, I don't understand the history.

I won't go into names, although for the voting purpose of this draft, I doubt those names would even make a difference.

There are a handful to a dozen cyclists who have won a lot more than Armstrong has done over his 12, 12 1/2 years, shown a lot more dominance than he did. It's widely accepted that the general idea behind Armstrong's plan to win Le Tour and hide the rest of the season makes his record tainted, compared to pre mid 1990's, when the top riders raced-to-win in more than just one race. The seven wins are spectacular, but not so spectacular compared to riders who manage(d) to win everwhere and in every month (from March through October).

The cycling season basically consists over several great races and sorts of races. Le Tour is one race, but the tour of Spain and tour of Italy are generally regarded almost equally important. Then there's the annual World Championship race and there are a dozen of important one-day races (until 2004 combined into the World Cup calendar), of which I believe Paris- Roubaix (the kobble(?) stone race) is best known in the USA. Throughout the history of cycling, riders showed up everywhere and the best riders in the end won the most races.

The past 15 years the 'game' changed. By the hand of Lance Armstrong, riders have more and more started to pick out one or two big races to 'peak' and win those. Armstrong and a few other top riders focused on Le Tour, some focused on the tour of Italy (because they ride for an Italian team, it's more important to the sponsors) or the tour of Spain (same reasons as the Italian teams argument). Others focus on the one-day events, where now-a-days you won't even see the top10-15 tour riders ride-to-win. In effect, at the end of the season, the top10 in the three big tours and in the disbanded World Cup could all be different.

On a historical base, Armstrong did very little to prove he's the all-time best cyclist, but in the end it's tough to even argue against him being the best ever to focus on the biggest of all races and manage to win it seven years in a row. The previous rider to win 'Le Tour' five times in a row did show up in the other great races and a couple of times won the tours of Italy and France in the same season. There are others who won the tour of France five times and also managed to win the tours of Italy and/or Spain a couple of times and also win a dozen or more one-day 'classics' and several World Championship races. I suppose it's some sort of 'era' argument and in the end Armstrong did show he was the very best in the 'modern era'.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'm badly out of my element when it comes to basketball -- I just don't follow it. I think that means I need to make some picks there early, when I've actually heard of the guy, rather than try to wait until the end.

3.5 Bill Russell, basketball

Good pick. Easily one fo the best in NBA history. He's got what? 11 rings in 12 seasons?

[vex]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Good pick. Easily one fo the best in NBA history. He's got what? 11 rings in 12 seasons?

11 out of 13, but close.

However, he only averaged 15.1 PPG.

[SnDvls]

after 2 1/2 rounds I think the wildcard & other categories might determine who "wins" IMO.

I think everyone will get a good player in the other areas to even things out. I'm still reserving judgement until the end though.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by vexroid

11 out of 13, but close.

However, he only averaged 15.1 PPG.

He found offense boring and loved defense. I'm paraprasing here, but he said any one can shhot, but not any one can rebound. Russell was a great pick.

[Schmidty]

I couldn't stand this guy when he was playing, but at this point I think he's a great value pick:

3.6 Larry Bird - Basketball

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by vexroid

11 out of 13, but close.

However, he only averaged 15.1 PPG.

Ben Wallace only averages 8 ppg, but he's one of the best players in the NBA. Ppg definitely aren't everything. In fact, I'd put them below rebounds and assists in importance. Rebounds gives your team more possessions, so you have more opportunities to score throughout the game. Even if you shoot a lower %, but pound your opponent off the glass, you will likely win. Assists are important because it shows how unselfish your team is, and how many high % shots you are getting.

[kcchief19]

Eh ... since the pool in one sport is getting a bit thin, I'll go for another character guy:

Mark Messier - hockey

Wayne Gretzky doesn't have his name on the Cup with Messier next to it, and Messier did him one better by breaking The Curse. At the top of most career leaderboards. This guy bled hockey.

[Maple Leafs]

Crap... if this keeps up, by the time my next pick comes around there will only be Leafs left.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by vtbub

He found offense boring and loved defense. I'm paraprasing here, but he said any one can shhot, but not any one can rebound. Russell was a great pick.

When Red Auerbach drafted him, the first thing he told Russell is, "I don't want you to shoot. We've got shooters. I want you to rebound. I'm going to count rebounds as baskets for you."

That in a nutshell is why made Russell a premier rebounder and made the Celtics almost unbeatable in the '60s. Wilt had the points, Russell had the rings.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Crap... if this keeps up, by the time my next pick comes around there will only be Leafs left.

Or, almost as bad, Blackhawks.