2009 World Baseball Classic

[larrymcg421]

USA to the semis!

[Scoobz0202]

Wow. I left in the top of the ninth after it was 5-3 figuring it was game over, and just got home in time to see Wright. Awesome.

[Captain2711]

D Wright representing New York baby!!!

[RainMaker]

Are they allowed to add players for the semis?

[Ksyrup]

Am I allowed to point out that the only out of the bottom of the 9th was made by Derek Jeter? Or am I obliged to congratulate him for sacrificing himself to move a meaningless run to third?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Am I allowed to point out that the only out of the bottom of the 9th was made by Derek Jeter? Or am I obliged to congratulate him for sacrificing himself to move a meaningless run to third?

He just didn't want to clog the bases.

[MrDNA]

This game sounds exciting - wish it was on some sort of TV... :grr:

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are they allowed to add players for the semis?

Yes.

[samifan24]

Wow, that was a great finish. I almost felt bad for Puerto Rico when all they had left to work with was J.C. Romero and Fernando Cabrera.

[Big Fo]

Man it just looked like it wasn't our night for the longest time there, no breaks, Beltran making that awesome catch to rob McCann of a homer, and then Wright hits a bloop double off his shoelaces to win.

[larrymcg421]

Meanwhile, the announcers sound much more excited for this Japan-Korea game.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Meanwhile, the announcers sound much more excited for this Japan-Korea game.

So does the crowd.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

This game sounds exciting - wish it was on some sort of TV... :grr:

I have only had MLB.TV for the computer for a couple of weeks, but so far I am loving it. I have already watched so much baseball. I can't wait for the regular season, I hopefully won't miss a Dodgers game all year long. Totally worth the 80 dollar investment for me. Oh, and I got the first two rounds of the WBC too.

[ISiddiqui]

David Wright for the win!!! What a game!

[Big Fo]

Brian Roberts leads off the USA - Japan semifinal with a homerun off Dice K. On ESPN if anyone that cares forgot...

[MJ4H]

Keep me updated, I'm currently watching my wife play the Tool gig on Guitar Hero IV.

[Crapshoot]

Still 1-0 - Matsuzaka doesn't look so great. Really, I wonder if Japan will regret not giving Darvish (who for selfish reasons, I wanted to see) the start.

[Big Fo]

6-2 Japan in the sixth. Oswalt had one bad inning and wasn't helped by a bad bounce on a ball to Roberts.

[Crapshoot]

Does anyone else get the impression that Japan is a Whitey Herzog team on crack? I mean, they hit line drive after line drive and run like the wind - its genuinely enjoyable to watch.

[ISiddiqui]

It's pretty ridiculous actually. Unfortunately I don't see the US pulling this one out, but they could have another amazing comeback, but how many of those can you have in a tourney?

[Big Fo]

Fuck off Joe Morgan, the Astros are going to be shitty either way, there was no need to leave Oswalt in there that long.

[Big Fo]

DeRosa's two-run triple just made things more interesting.

[Chief Rum]

Yup, this one got a lot more exciting just now.

[spleen1015]

Why can't Jeter make those kinds of mistakes with the WS on the line?

[ISiddiqui]

That's a more "clutch" event .

[larrymcg421]

Jeter is a True Yankee, but apparently not a True American.

[samifan24]

While I enjoyed Team USA's run in the WBC, I knew from the start that Team USA would have to approach the tournament differently from the other teams. I think the ESPN broadcasters hit the nail on the head when they discussed the timing and how Davey Johnson was essentially handcuffed due to the timing of the tournament.

Looks like a good matchup for the final tomorrow night. I'll be rooting for Big League Choo and South Korea.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by samifan24

While I enjoyed Team USA's run in the WBC, I knew from the start that Team USA would have to approach the tournament differently from the other teams. I think the ESPN broadcasters hit the nail on the head when they discussed the timing and how Davey Johnson was essentially handcuffed due to the timing of the tournament.

Bull. These are excuses Americans and those involved in US baseball use to make themselves feel good about losing again in this. The only issue is a lack of commitment from the people behind USA baseball, from the owners to the GMs to the players. I am hoping Selig's announcement yesterday telling GMs they are going to have accept this tournament is here to stay, and that they will have to "put the interests of baseball ahead of their selfish, provincial interests" will finally become a reality for these people, although it make end up needing to take some hand forcing.

I do hope they consider changes to the tournament to put players in a better position to participate and be in condition to participate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Selig's comment -- The most important interest of Major League Baseball, its GM's and its players is the product that runs from April until October, not this exhibition sideshow.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

re: Selig's comment -- The most important interest of Major League Baseball, its GM's and its players is the product that runs from April until October, not this exhibition sideshow.

No, the most important interest of Major League Baseball, its GMs and its players is $ $ $ $. And I am surprised to have to say that to one of the most cynical posters on this board.

The WBC is growing baseball's financial footprint in the international market, and it's not hurting it here in the U.S.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Bull. These are excuses Americans and those involved in US baseball use to make themselves feel good about losing again in this. The only issue is a lack of commitment from the people behind USA baseball, from the owners to the GMs to the players. I am hoping Selig's announcement yesterday telling GMs they are going to have accept this tournament is here to stay, and that they will have to "put the interests of baseball ahead of their selfish, provincial interests" will finally become a reality for these people, although it make end up needing to take some hand forcing.

I do hope they consider changes to the tournament to put players in a better position to participate and be in condition to participate.

It doesnt seem like excuses to me. It is the truth.

Americans dont give 2 cents about this tournament and likely never will. Its set up stupidly, its set up at the wrong time, and the rules make it more worthless. Baseball should never be in a one and done format for 1. For two the limit on IP's is because the WBC knows the Americans dont play baseball during the winter months, Thirdly what do the Americans have to prove in regards to baseball? Its like saying Tiger Woods isnt the best golfer in the world because he lost some meaningless tournament.

It pretty much sums up how dumb it is when ARod can play for one team one year and in the next tournament play for another team. I'm sorry if you feel strongly about this but it is what is like Jon said "An exhibition sideshow"

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It doesnt seem like excuses to me. It is the truth.

Americans dont give 2 cents about this tournament and likely never will. Its set up stupidly, its set up at the wrong time, and the rules make it more worthless. Baseball should never be in a one and done format for 1. For two the limit on IP's is because the WBC knows the Americans dont play baseball during the winter months, Thirdly what do the Americans have to prove in regards to baseball? Its like saying Tiger Woods isnt the best golfer in the world because he lost some meaningless tournament.

It pretty much sums up how dumb it is when ARod can play for one team one year and in the next tournament play for another team. I'm sorry if you feel strongly about this but it is what is like Jon said "An exhibition sideshow"

Tell that to the fans you will see screaming in support of their team tomorrow night when Japan goes versus Korea. See if they agree with you that this is an exhibition sideshow.

Just because that's your opinion, doesn't make it so (anymore than it mine makes it so).

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Tell that to the fans you will see screaming in support of their team tomorrow night when Japan goes versus Korea. See if they agree with you that this is an exhibition sideshow.

Just because that's your opinion, doesn't make it so (anymore than it mine makes it so).

I was certain we were discussing American views not the views of the other countries. It seems the Asian countries along with Cuba are the only ones that real care too much about this tourny.

[fantom1979]

I flipped over to catch the score of the Japan/US game. I have now officially watched 20 total minutes of WBC action..... woot

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, the most important interest of Major League Baseball, its GMs and its players is $ $ $ $. And I am surprised to have to say that to one of the most cynical posters on this board.

And April to October is what generates those dollars, not some sideshow.

The WBC is growing baseball's financial footprint in the international market, and it's not hurting it here in the U.S.

That's (lower case b) baseball's footprint, not Major League Baseball's footprint. And it's not as though there's a shortage of players in the league with names the fans can't pronounce already. You want to kill the league in the U.S., go ahead and force fans to eagerly anticipate the big three game series in Caracas while the Dodgers head off to play Tokyo. Not to mention killing their TV deal since I don't picture it being fiscally responsible to send Morgan & Miller globetrotting on a weekly basis.

[Ksyrup]

It's no secret that I absolutely detest international, country-versus-country sports competitions (particularly including the Olympics), and the WBC is no different. I just don't care who wins, and I certainly don't care more if the US wins or loses. Why? Because it is meaningless. "Playing for your country" is an outdated concept in 2008 - and it has been ( or should have been) for years. Nations determining their self-worth and turning a sport into a "you vs. me" competition about which nation is better = fucking pathetic. I just want to see stellar competition, and it matters not one bit where the athletes are from.

I think Shysterball said it best a few weeks ago:

The final reason -- and this one I'm somewhat less ashamed of, though I'm not sure if I should be -- is that I find that pitting nation-state against nation-state in any competition is a passe exercise. I'm not in favor of one world government or anything, but I do have a mild Utopian streak in me, and I thus find the competition of countries to be a rather quaint and ultimately meaningless construct that I hope is one day supplanted by a little more oneness, ya know? Oh, I'll grant the World Cup and the modern Olympics their current constructs because nations were more important when they started and I'll grant them their setup for the sake of history, but we really aren't in that world anymore. Or at least we should strive not to be. All of us have more things in common with some people in other countries than we do with some people in our own. With specific reference to sports, we all know that no country has a monopoly on top talent. Why then pit countries against one another? What, exactly, does it prove? The height of internationalism, in my mind at least, is when people from all over the world play together rather than divide up into categories determined by accident of birth. For the time being, that means all of the best baseball players playing in the Major Leagues. Or all of the best soccer players playing in the EPL or in Germany or Italy or whatever league is supposed to the best. At some point -- like, when we master teleportation -- I'll want to see truly global leagues.

The reason other countries care and we don't is twofold, IMO - (1) we have established leagues that have most of the top talent in the sports we care about the most, so nationalized sporting competitions are merely annoying exhibitions at best, and (2) we're a huge country with few bordering neighbors, so there really is less of a need to "prove" ourselves in this way. I guess I could understand some small country landlocked by 3-5 other countries getting into a sports "border war,' but we have no need for that here. Or, more precisely, that's what college sports are for. That's our version of nationalistic sporting events. So asking us to care about the WBC as US fans...it's never going to happen in any big way. And I don't really care if MLB teams pull all of the US's big league talent from the tournament. If they win = who cares? If they lose = who cares? Let's just get to opening day of what really matters, please.

Having said all that, I actually watched quite a bit of the WBC, not because I care who wins, but because I love baseball and this is the closest thing to "real" baseball I can watch until MLB begins. And for that, I actually like it. Who's playing and who wins...I don't give a shit.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Bull. These are excuses Americans and those involved in US baseball use to make themselves feel good about losing again in this. The only issue is a lack of commitment from the people behind USA baseball, from the owners to the GMs to the players.

I do hope they consider changes to the tournament to put players in a better position to participate and be in condition to participate.

Players don't want to participate because they're afraid they'll get hurt and teams don't really want to send them because they're afraid they'll get hurt or not be prepared for the beginning of the season. This is something that all teams dealt with, not just the US, so I don't see how that's simply an "excuse" US baseball made simply because they lost.

All I'm saying is that if you hold a tournament during Spring Training, when MLB players are not in game shape (their fault), and if the manager treats each game like an exhibition rather than going all-out to win, as Davey Johnson did, then you're going to get less than a complete effort from Team USA.

I'm happy that the players that signed up represented the US. But Johnson did far less than he could because he was beholden to the MLB GMs and managers back in training camp and that fact changed the nature of Team USA from the start. Plenty of other teams have MLB players on their roster but you saw different "strategy" from them. I've heard it said that USA Baseball just didn't care about winning the WBC, and that may be true, but you can't put that on the 25 players that suited up for the tournament. It comes from higher up and will not change until the culture surrounding the WBC changes here in the States. My issue is with they way Johnson used those players, as though he were managing an All-Star game or an exhibition game rather than in a tournament that counts. As David Wright said, "we know what we've signed up for" so at least the players recognize that.

I think we agree that USA Baseball approaches the WBC differently than other countries, even countries that have MLB players on their rosters. I think the real question is how to change that approach so Johnson can do more than simply make sure everyone gets an at-bat during the WBC and that sort of thing.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

we're a huge country with few bordering neighbors, so there really is less of a need to "prove" ourselves in this way. I guess I could understand some small country landlocked by 3-5 other countries getting into a sports "border war,' but we have no need for that here.

Someone doesn't follow what people are like during the Olympics . Americans definitely get into national competitions. It's just the Olympics that we get up for. Mostly because, a) we aren't that great yet in soccer to really care about the World Cup, and b) the WBC is in its infancy and during Spring Training.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Someone doesn't follow what people are like during the Olympics . Americans definitely get into national competitions. It's just the Olympics that we get up for. Mostly because, a) we aren't that great yet in soccer to really care about the World Cup, and b) the WBC is in its infancy and during Spring Training.

I take issue with (a)

17th in the latest FIFA rankings

17th bitches! And by the time we get a lil deeper in WC qualifying we should be 15th.

We're 12pts off Paraguay in 15th place (4 wins).

[molson]

Baseball just isn't designed for this kind of format. The outcome is a total crapshoot.

If it was 6 weeks long with 30+ games per team and there were stricter rules about what team you could play for, it would be pretty awesome.

[MJ4H]

Yes baseball is too high in variance for short competitions.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Someone doesn't follow what people are like during the Olympics . Americans definitely get into national competitions. It's just the Olympics that we get up for. Mostly because, a) we aren't that great yet in soccer to really care about the World Cup, and b) the WBC is in its infancy and during Spring Training.

Eh, I disagree. While I definitely saw a bunch of coverage of the Olympics and specifically how the US (and the other countries) was doing, I didn't really see a huge nationalistic outpouring at all from Americans. Michael Phelps became a huge star here because he is an American and did well in the Olympics, but I didn't see anybody screaming about America's superiority because he won 8 gold medals. Really, what I saw in the Olympics from the coverage, regardless of whether the person was American or not, was individual stories. Case in point...I couldn't even tell you what country that Bolt (spelling?) guy is from. Of course you had people at the events rooting by coutnry, because that's how the competition is set up. But when it was all said and done, people went about their business largely unaffected by whether Americans won or lost, aside from the few breakout, individual stars/celebrities that were made there.

My sense is that people generally only pay attention to the Olympics because it's become so firmly ingrained as an "event" - kinda like an extended Super Bowl for non-football followers. Each year, a bunch of people who've never watched football go to SB parties just to have fun and be included. That's about what the Olympics is for most Americans. My sense is we're taken by good stories and performances, regardless of what nationality. And I think that's borne out by the soap opera-like coverage we see every Olympics. If they happen to live here, of course they get more publicity here. But the nationalistic pride angle is really second to the proximity to celebrity thing, IMO. I don't know many people who claim America is superior thanks to its basketball team and archery club winning gold medals. People get into it for the moment, and then shrug it off and forget about it a month later, until the next time. Whoopee.

[ISiddiqui]

Personally, I saw people going crazy for the Olympics more than any other sport with the exception of college football. People like Shawn Johnson and Nastia Liukin became household names. They screamed over Chinese shenanigans with the ages of their female gymnists. They followed the medal counts like hawks.

It wasn't about stories so much as it was rooting for the US. Sure, when someone like Usain Bolt (from Jamaica, btw) wins in such stunning fashion, the American public will pay attention. But make no mistake, there was plenty of nationalistic rooting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

People like Shawn Johnson and Nastia Liukin became household names.

For about 15 minutes.

It wasn't about stories so much as it was rooting for the US. Sure, when someone like Usain Bolt (from Jamaica, btw) wins in such stunning fashion, the American public will pay attention. But make no mistake, there was plenty of nationalistic rooting.

Got me fairly well, Bolt was an interesting sidebar but was the exception not the rule.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm fairly sure I can mention Shawn Johnson or Nastia Liukin in my office and people will know immidately who I'm talking about.

[Ksyrup]

I'd heard of Shawn Johnson before the Olympics, just from ESPN/sports coverage shrapnel, and until today had never heard of Nastia Liukin. Aside from Insane Bolt, Phelps, and some basketball players, I don't think I could name a single person in the Olympics.

I bet 5% of Americans couldn't name the top 5 countries in overall medals and golds. No one gives a shit once the "event" is over, and I certainly don't hear Americans throwing around our lofty Olympic performance in discussions about our failings in international dealings.

[ISiddiqui]

What a great duel so far. The Japanese keep hitting, but Bong has prevented them from scoring (aside from one unearned run). Iwakuma has been excellent, but its very, very close.

[MrDNA]

WOW. The last inning plus has been incredible.

[Izulde]

Fantastic game so far, especially the last couple innings as others have said.

[ISiddiqui]

And what a double play to prevent more than 1 run! Some great defense!