2011 NCAA Basketball Tournament Thread

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... someone should have told Gary Williams
Maryland basketball: Terps get left out of NIT field - baltimoresun.com

"After 19 wins and beating Penn State, Florida State and Clemson, it's disappointing that we're not at least in the NIT," Maryland coach Gary Williams said in remarks e-mailed to reporters. Penn State, Florida State and Clemson made the 68-team NCAA field.

"We played right with Duke for 35 minutes and got a win in the ACC tournament. It's kind of surprising we weren't selected," Williams said. "We worked very hard to get to where we were with 19 wins this year. We're looking forward to the start of next season."

I should have clarified. They didnt get invited to the NIT so they both turned down invites to the other two.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who gives a rats ass about the CBI and CIT? Why do you always feel the need to champion the cause of the little guy?

Well I dont really care about the tourny but I wanted the Gophers to get to play some more games and hopefully get something positive going into next year. I am sure they had their reasons for not wanting to play in them tournys but I wouldnt want to end my career losing 10 out of 11 games.

But with your post. Yes too many tournaments right now.

[molson]

I thought one of those two other tournaments was strictly smaller conferences anyway - and it looks like there's only one BCS school in either tournament.

I think it's harmless and fun that Idaho is playing San Francisco somewhere after the season - it's unoffensive, certainly it isn't hard to ignore those games.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by molson

I thought one of those two other tournaments was strictly smaller conferences anyway - and it looks like there's only one BCS school in either tournament.

I think it's harmless and fun that Idaho is playing San Francisco somewhere after the season - it's unoffensive, certainly it isn't hard to ignore those games.

The College Insider tourney is specifically for mid-majors, yeah.

Originally Posted by Lathum

who gives a rats ass about the CBI and CIT? Why do you always feel the need to champion the cause of the little guy?

Went to and have worked at small schools, so I tend care about them.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well I dont really care about the tourny but I wanted the Gophers to get to play some more games and hopefully get something positive going into next year. I am sure they had their reasons for not wanting to play in them tournys but I wouldnt want to end my career losing 10 out of 11 games.

In 2009, The CIT cost about $28k to host a game, the CBI charges $60k. Road team travel costs are covered by the tournament in either case. Most schools opt for the CIT for that reason because they can sometimes break even, where the CBI is a loss. So they probably didn't think it was worth the loss for a banner they wouldn't hang if they managed to win it.

[Butter]

Excited about seeing Clemson here in the First Four in Dayton.

Supposedly, the community is getting behind this despite the NCAA mandating that Tuesday/Wednesday tickets be bought as a package instead of being able to buy single session tickets, and the worst seats in the house still going for $97 a pop.

Luckily, I was able to find a nice, fellow UD fan that was willing to part with his decent seats for one day for half of $97 each so my wife and I can see her beloved (and my adopted) Clemson Tigers beat UAB on Tuesday night.

[Butter]

Also, we will be rooting on UNC-Asheville out of the Big South in Game 1. Have to go with the regional favorites.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Wouldnt that be St Marys?

They were 25-8 so I assume the reason they didnt get in was a weak SOS. I would think St Marys is the team that best fits this " I feel bad for the schools that didn't have an opportunity to get in despite doing what they had to do schedule wise" criteria you mention.

Their losses were BYU, SD St, Vanderbilt, Gonzage(twice), Portland, San Diego, and Utah St. Six of their losses were to tourny teams.

RainMaker was responding to my post about St. Mary's being the bubble team with the most to complain about. I should clarify that original post I made - I'm not saying that I think they deserve to be in the tournament, just that they seem to have the strongest resume of the four teams that everyone is talking about as "snubs."

I think that although the San Diego loss was atrocious and nearly inexcusable, you can't write off a season on one game. Like I mentioned, they had plenty of opportunities to punch their ticket, they just didn't get it handled.

[Thomkal]

Meanwhile Coastal Carolina really gets slammed for its late season woes and only 8 active players, getting one of the last four seeds and maybe even the last seed in the NIT and will travel to Alabama on Tuesday. The good news? The Chants beat an SEC team at their place already this season. The bad news? It was the woeful LSU Tigers. So a likely one and out for my Chants but that might be a good thing given the turmoil surrounding the program right now. If Coastal gets raked over the coals by the NCAA, look for Coach Ellis to be fired despite two near NCAA appearances. The current AD didn't hire him and has already met with him over his recruiting process.

[wade moore]

The weird thing about the CAA getting 3 teams in the NCAAs is they get 0 in the NIT. I thought Hofstra or Drexel would get in, but they didn't.

[Butter]

A10 only got 1 in the NIT as well. They placed like 3 or 4 in the CIT/CBI tourneys.

[wade moore]

Joe Sheehan does a bit of filleting of the talking heads:

Joe Sheehan: From 345 to 68, Epilogue

Pretty fun read for me.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Joe Sheehan does a bit of filleting of the talking heads:

Joe Sheehan: From 345 to 68, Epilogue

Sheehan has actually done yeoman's work these past few weeks with college basketball -- topped off by that brilliant roasting of ESPN's idiots today. I've greatly enjoyed his Twitter throughout the conference tourney/bubble/selection/aftermath process as well.

[Scoobz0202]

When you guys are filling out your brackets what resources do you turn to for more info on a team? I'm finding it harder to fill out this year then most. Not sure if it's due to parity or if it's because I didn't pay attention as much this year.

[DataKing]

And already today the annual "Boohoo you stole our coach" nonsense is starting at my office with the Illini grads I work with. I do enjoy it so.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Joe Sheehan does a bit of filleting of the talking heads:

Joe Sheehan: From 345 to 68, Epilogue

Pretty fun read for me.

That's a real good read. Not sure how anyone takes ESPN serious anymore. They are just a marketing company for the leagues that do business with them. Jay Bilas is on PTI right now thrashing the committee for picking VCU and UAB.

It's kind of funny how when good non-BCS get shafted, no word is spoken. When a BCS school gets shafted, the whole system needs to be transformed. Jay Bilas likely hasn't watched a single CAA game this season.

[Radii]

Bilas is a frequent guest on the local sports talk radio shows and he is one of my favorite people to listen to. Its really really disappointing to see the BS going on the last couple days over such marginal decisions.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

When you guys are filling out your brackets what resources do you turn to for more info on a team? I'm finding it harder to fill out this year then most. Not sure if it's due to parity or if it's because I didn't pay attention as much this year.

I rarely go past the thumbnails at whatever site I'm using for the bracket. Yahoo, espn, cbs, etc.

That + my own "knowledge" + my gut usually gives me a pick. But then again, I'm strictly a free bracket kind of guy for years now, nothing at stake more than bragging rights.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Radii

Bilas is a frequent guest on the local sports talk radio shows and he is one of my favorite people to listen to. Its really really disappointing to see the BS going on the last couple days over such marginal decisions.

Most of the ESPN panel is comprised of idiots. Bilas, in contrast, is actually very intelligent -- but he has that attorney arrogance that comes out sometimes. On top of that, he seemed to be taking the UAB/VCU selections REALLY personally for some reason. Attorney arrogance + mysterious apparent personal grudge = extremely off-putting personality display that we saw last night.

Not his best moment.

[RainMaker]

The problem with Bilas is that he isn't really making an argument for those snubbed teams. It's just the standard "why should we let teams from smaller conferences into our tournament". I understand why he can't since the numbers go against his stance, but at least give something.

And I have no idea how UAB gets thrown into this. They won a decent conference. Had a real good RPI too. Much better than any of the "snubbed" teams. They should definitely be in. I think people get carried away with "signature wins" when the entire body of work should be used. While people have shit on the RPI, it's still a really good indicator of how well a school performed compared to others over the course of a season. It should be used much more heavily in determining who gets in.

But I'm sure this will just mean no mid-majors will get an at-large bid next season thanks to the crying.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But I'm sure this will just mean no mid-majors will get an at-large bid next season thanks to the crying.

Does anyone remember the crying 2 weeks later, after all these marginal teams are out anyway? Honest question, my perception is that it gives some people something to talk about for a couple days but the second the tournament starts very few people care anymore. By next year this time this will all be such a distant memory that we'll all be shocked and appalled when the seedings aren't 100% perfect again.

I know that guys like Dark Cloud and Wade who have significant ties to mid-major basketball will remember, but is there any legit reason to believe that next year virginia tech is in and UAB is out because jay bilas threw a hissyfit?

[RainMaker]

Years ago when more mid-majors were getting in, some people through huge fits (Billy Packer, Dick Vitale, etc) and we almost saw a complete end to any at-large bids for them. People started trashing the RPI and the committee started using it less and less. They said all the mid-majors were gaming the system which is perhaps the most retarded fucking statement that anyone involved in college basketball could ever come up with.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Radii

Does anyone remember the crying 2 weeks later, after all these marginal teams are out anyway? Honest question, my perception is that it gives some people something to talk about for a couple days but the second the tournament starts very few people care anymore. By next year this time this will all be such a distant memory that we'll all be shocked and appalled when the seedings aren't 100% perfect again.

I know that guys like Dark Cloud and Wade who have significant ties to mid-major basketball will remember, but is there any legit reason to believe that next year virginia tech is in and UAB is out because jay bilas threw a hissyfit?

I'm 100% with you on this.

I've been guilty of getting "emotional" about it myself, but that's how I debate.

The Tournament Selection fighting is like my 3rd favorite sporting event behind the Super Bowl and the Tournament itself to be honest. It's entertainment.

[wade moore]

And no, I don't think Bilas will make a difference.

There are ebs and flows. Last year (or the year before?) DC and I were complaining because of the lack of mids. This year is a strong mid year.

It's really just an eb and flow.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

When you guys are filling out your brackets what resources do you turn to for more info on a team? I'm finding it harder to fill out this year then most. Not sure if it's due to parity or if it's because I didn't pay attention as much this year.

http://kenpom.com/fanmatch.php?d=2011-03-16 is a good one. You can click on team names to see the team and player stats of each team.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Years ago when more mid-majors were getting in, some people through huge fits (Billy Packer, Dick Vitale, etc) and we almost saw a complete end to any at-large bids for them. People started trashing the RPI and the committee started using it less and less. They said all the mid-majors were gaming the system which is perhaps the most retarded fucking statement that anyone involved in college basketball could ever come up with.

Do you really think Billy Packer, Dick Vitale, ect have any weight whatsoever with the selection committee?

The selection process is constantly evolving. They just recently got rid of last 10/12 being part of the data used in selection. Was there a conspiracy from Vitale, ect to get rid of that as well?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm 100% with you on this.

I've been guilty of getting "emotional" about it myself, but that's how I debate.

The Tournament Selection fighting is like my 3rd favorite sporting event behind the Super Bowl and the Tournament itself to be honest. It's entertainment.

Oh sure, nothing wrong with that. My comment about the silly reactions wasn't about any fans, fans of mid major conferences or of Virginia Tech or whatever have every right to get into the argument. The silly reactions comment was solely aimed at professional analysts who should be level headed and... analytical about the whole thing, not colin cowherd style blowhards

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Do you really think Billy Packer, Dick Vitale, ect have any weight whatsoever with the selection committee?

Indirectly, yeah, I believe they do. Not individually, but as "the media" in general.

It's now commonplace for the NCAA to attempt to defend their selections within minutes of the bracket reveal. That hasn't always been the case as I recall, but now it's not only obligatory but actually seems somewhat desparate. They've also started bending over backwards to get the media on their side with the mock selection committee each year.

Do I think that the members look at each other & say "what's espn going to say about this choice"? Nah. Do I think it's in their heads at some level & definitely influences them subconsciously? You're damned skippy I do.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Indirectly, yeah, I believe they do. Not individually, but as "the media" in general.

It's now commonplace for the NCAA to attempt to defend their selections within minutes of the bracket reveal. That hasn't always been the case as I recall, but now it's not only obligatory but actually seems somewhat desparate. They've also started bending over backwards to get the media on their side with the mock selection committee each year.

Do I think that the members look at each other & say "what's espn going to say about this choice"? Nah. Do I think it's in their heads at some level & definitely influences them subconsciously? You're damned skippy I do.

I'll agree here. However, I don't think Packer or Vitale are going to have any impact at all in what criteria is used in selection. I believe the selection committee has used the media to help people understand how selection works more than anything else. However, the more info people are given the more they have to bitch about.

RPI is heavily flawed and way behind the work of guys like Pomeroy. I don't know why it's even used at this point. I'm hoping it goes the way of the last 10/12 and is out of the selection criteria within the next couple of years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

RPI is heavily flawed and way behind the work of guys like Pomeroy. I don't know why it's even used at this point. I'm hoping it goes the way of the last 10/12 and is out of the selection criteria within the next couple of years.

What flaws do you find in it when it comes to picking out the teams that had the best seasons?

If you want to say it's a bad predictor of who will win a game, I'd agree. But that's not how the tournament or any postseason should be selected. It should be based on the results of the season. The RPI is the purest way of determining that.

[Scoobz0202]

Just filled out my prelim bracket. In the Southeast I have BYU-Utah St, with Utah St making the final four. Yea, I think I'm going to have to do some serious soul searching tomorrow before I submit it

[mauchow]

Hopefully this game is a sign of things to come this first weekend of games. It was a good game with Ashville coming out on top. I watch most of the second half of this one to get me in the mood for the upcoming few days. Got another one tonight that we can hope to get us all more excited yet.

[mauchow]

And Bilas really believes that 3 Big East teams will make the Final 4? Doubtful but I guess that's why the tourney is played.

[sterlingice]

What NCAA Tournament game? Silly person, they start on Thursday

SI

[DataKing]

The TruTV Thin Walls commercial is pretty damn hilarious.

[muns]

Originally Posted by DataKing

The TruTV Thin Walls commercial is pretty damn hilarious.

Not when they show it every other commercial. I understand trying to market your channel now that you think you have some viewers but its annoying as heck watching the same 2 tru tv commercials over and over.

[muns]

If UAB keeps this up, Bilas and everyone else is going to continue to have a field day for another 24 hours. 25-7 after 10 mins of ball isn't good. I actually would have thought UAB would have come out fired up with all the hoopla about them being in the tournament, instead they have come out awfully flat IMHO.

[Young Drachma]

http://www.slate.com/id/2288251/pagenum/2

All-Motivated Team
I wanted to see if you could actually field a competitive squad of players with nonstandard majors. Turns out you can. I'd even bet these 15 players would contend for the national title.
G: Nolan Smith, Duke, 21.3 ppg, African and African-American studies
G: Jimmer Fredette, BYU, 28.5 ppg, American studies
F: Kyle Singler, Duke, 17.1 ppg, visual arts
F: Noah Dahlman, Wofford, 20.0 ppg, history
C: Festus Ezeli, Vanderbilt, 12.8 ppg, economics
Second Team
G: D.J. Gay, San Diego State, 11.2 ppg, women's studies
G: Ben Hansbrough, Notre Dame, 18.5 ppg, American studies
F: Jamal Olasewere, LIU, 12.9 ppg, computer science
F: Cameron Moore, UAB, 14.3 ppg, philosophy
C: Zeke Marshall, Akron, 8.6 ppg, computer information systems
Third Team
G: G.W. Boon, Bucknell, 8.8 ppg, biomedical engineering
G: Trian Iliadis, Old Dominion, 6.0 ppg, biochemistry
F: Tim Abromaitis, Notre Dame, 15.3 ppg, one-year graduate MBA program
F: Jamelle Horne, Arizona, 6.2 ppg, creative writing
C: Dan Geriot, Richmond, 9.9 ppg, double major in political science and history

[DataKing]

Wow UAB just looks awful. They're making Clemson look like title contenders.

[Lathum]

G: D.J. Gay, San Diego State, 11.2 ppg, women's studies

[Ragone]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm trying to figure out a way to work Greg Robinson into the mix.

Oddly enough... Greg Robinson is trying to figure out a way to work.

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Lathum

"How did I fail women's studies? I love bitches!"

[Swaggs]

Sorry to keep up with the coaching movement news, but I can't get enough of this stuff for some reason.

ESPN Rumors says that NC State's Debbie Yow has a list of about 10 names "with a decided preference for successful college veterans now coaching in the NCAA tournament." The speculation is that her list includes Turgeon of A&M, Jamie Dixon of Pitt, and Brad Stevens of Butler -- all of whom seem like major reaches. Also mentions that John Beilein might be a candidate. Beilein flirted with NC State the season before he left WVU for Michigan, has East Coast ties, and has a history of leaving his job every 5-6 years, so it wouldn't be a complete shock (still seems like a reach, though).

Providence is reportedly looking at Fairfield's Ed Cooley and former BC and Ohio State coach Jim O'Brien. Cooley is young and from Providence, but obviously much less established. O'Brien is over 60, but has a lot better name recognition and coached in the Big East for a long time at BC, so he'd probably be a safer short-term choice

[muns]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Sorry to keep up with the coaching movement news, but I can't get enough of this stuff for some reason.

ESPN Rumors says that NC State's Debbie Yow has a list of about 10 names "with a decided preference for successful college veterans now coaching in the NCAA tournament." The speculation is that her list includes Turgeon of A&M, Jamie Dixon of Pitt, and Brad Stevens of Butler -- all of whom seem like major reaches. Also mentions that John Beilein might be a candidate. Beilein flirted with NC State the season before he left WVU for Michigan, has East Coast ties, and has a history of leaving his job every 5-6 years, so it wouldn't be a complete shock (still seems like a reach, though).

Providence is reportedly looking at Fairfield's Ed Cooley and former BC and Ohio State coach Jim O'Brien. Cooley is young and from Providence, but obviously much less established. O'Brien is over 60, but has a lot better name recognition and coached in the Big East for a long time at BC, so he'd probably be a safer short-term choice

WOW, as I just said in the other thread, this NC State thing has the potential to be another disaster for them.

I don't see either Turgeon or Dixon leaving. If Dixon didn't leave last year for Arizona he certainly wont leave for NC State right???

Stevens is interesting. I know he said last year he is committed there for a long time, but it is Butler and if he ever wants to get bigger he needs a University that can provide him with that.

John Beilein is also interesting to me. He is just getting Michigan where he wants them, would he leave now after all the years getting them there?

[Butter]

Back today from the tournament last night. It was a good showing by all teams (except UAB). Great first game, good result from the 2nd game for a fan of Clemson.

The biggest roar of the night, by far, was the step back 3 that UNCA's guard hit to send the game to OT. Attendance hit over 10,000, which was up from the previous single play-in games at UD Arena.

Clemson brought the biggest fan contingent, maybe 750-1000 fans... there was orange scattered throughout the entire arena. UAB had 200-300 mostly in a section behind their bench. UALR had about 100 folks behind their bench, while Asheville had 40-50 diehards opposite their bench throughout their game. Everyone else was pretty much impartial observers. Fun, if late night, as the last game ended around midnight, and I had to be up at 5 AM today.

[whomario]

I know on paper it´s now the "first round", but who are they kidding ? I would even understand if they had a couple bubble teams from Power Conferences battle out a few spots, but have them play mid-majors seems just weird.

That being said the NC-Asheville vs. Ark-Little Rock game was quite fun to watch.

[muns]

Im going to assume that the PAC-10 doesnt play much zone, cause Dana O'Neil and USC have one of the wrost zone "O'S" I've seen in a while. They can't do anything against VCU with it

[jbergey22]

Im glad VCU pulled away again. For about a 3-4 minute period in the 2nd half it seemed the refs were going to will USC to a victory.

[B & B]

Thats correct. The BS 'intentional' foul call , the reDICKulous blocking call in the lane that was an obvious charge and caused Haley to foul out, etc. Refs, plz dont decide any games.


USC did a piss poor job of getting the ball into the bigs and taking good shot choices. They deserved to lose and ended up quitting pretty much after Jio fouled out.

[Young Drachma]

Oregon offered Stevens a truckload of money and he didn't even give them an interview. NC State can't compete with that.