AMC's new murder mystery series "The Killing"

[jeff061]

Making Holder likeable and then getting more evil is good character development, hard to pull off, but a good idea.

Only a good idea when what you are blowing up isn't one of the few things that make the show worth watching. And if 5 seconds doesn't render an entire season irrelevant, on a very simplistic cliffhanger no less.

A cheap mechanism to create shallow and stereotypical drama and tension, at the detriment to creating an actually in depth and thought provoking show. The only reason it wasn't predictable is because we were all hoping we were watching a quality series.

[stevew]

Anyone going to dare to accept the challenge of watching this shit again?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by stevew

Anyone going to dare to accept the challenge of watching this shit again?

No thanks!

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by stevew

Anyone going to dare to accept the challenge of watching this shit again?

Nope. Was a loyal viewer during season one. Not bothering with season two.

[sabotai]

Looking over the ratings, the season premiere had 1.8 million viewers, down almost a full million from the season 1 premier, a half million from the season 1 finale, and only beating out 1 episode from last year (Episode 9, 1.69 million. Second lowest rated episode from season 1 was Episode 6 with 1.81 million).

Guessing this one won't make it to a 3rd season.

[tyketime]

I swore it off after being so pissed from the finale. But Mrs Tyke talked me into giving the season opener a shot. Several times we looked at each other and were like, "do you want to continue?". We did finish watching it, but we're done with it. In addition to the finale debacle, there are a couple other reasons I won't be watching again.

Spoiler

• AMC has already announced that they won't reveal the killer until the Season 2 finale. There were enough red herrings to drive us crazy during Season 1. Now we will have the additional knowledge that any early season "suspect" will probably not be the real killer.
• I can appreciate a show operating at a slower pace. But with the 2-hour premiere, there were very few significant events that occurred.
• Linden was able to quickly blow a hole in the "fake picture" setup. Did they really think it wouldn't take long to unravel?

[digamma]

Anyone still watching?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by digamma

Anyone still watching?

Spoiler alerts...

Yep. I'm horrible about taking things off the DVR, my expectations were lowered to the point that I have been able to enjoy it. For most of this season I watched with a lighter view, laughing my ass off at some of the ridiculous plot lines, holder said in one episode "this thing goes all the way to city hall" and it was the most hilariously cliche'd line, I had to pause the DVR and take in what I'd just seen. I drew a lot of parallels to 24 with some of the conspiracy stuff and with Linden insisting on investigating even though it was risking her life and breaking the law, etc etc.

The high point of absurdity was the episode where Linden wakes up in a psych ward. It was the most nonsensical hour of TV I've ever seen. I basically laughed through the entire thing, Linden was pretty much fine (if you can ignore the idea that she's breaking tons of laws by trying to investigate the murder while suspended). Then all of a sudden she starts acting like a complete lunatic, lashing out in really weird ways at the shrink, then magically getting released at the end. This episode had one of the biggest legitimate breakthroughs in the case itself with Holder starting to piece things together, and they completely glossed over it in 5 minutes, instead to spend 20 minutes with Linden completely out of character trying to do random character development that didn't work.

Then, like 3 episodes ago, all of a sudden it got interesting again. I feel that the last few episodes were well done, the storylines have been good and compelling, the scenes where we weren't sure which political campaign was going to be end up being involved with the murder, the closure with the dad and the mob. I'm finding myself still with lowered expectations but legitimately looking forward to the finale.

Looking back, I feel like there was enough good work done here to make one great season of television. The first few episodes of the show, the stuff with Richmond being framed, arrested, and shot, and then the end of this second season contained some pretty solid television. They just dragged it out twice as long as it should have been and the filler in the middle was just completely ridiculous.

I don't know anyone else besides me that kept watching, curious what others think.

[digamma]

Almost completely agree.

I had the good fortune not to discover the show until earlier this year. So we blew through the first season and got caught up with season 2 by about episode 3 of the second season. We were spared the anger at the cliff hanger--which didn't seem so bad knowing we could watch the next episode the next night.

I thought the first part of season 2 really lost its way. All over the place in terms of plot angles and story development. Then, like you said, a few episodes ago, it sort of found itself.

Very much looking forward to the finale and trying to figure out what the one last twist will be.

[Bigsmooth]

I've been watching and have found the show pretty compelling despite the many ludicrous angles you guys mentioned. I really like Holder as a character and thought the dynamic between Linden and her son was very well played and gut-wrenching.

[OldGiants]

My wife and I have watched this all along and have much the same reactions of the others here. Moments of 'wait, what?' followed by interesting bits in the plot and characters. Watching Stan trying to hold it all together has been tremendously entertaining this season.

The Indian tribe as a sink of corruption and villainy is also a nice twist on the 'noble savage', 'weeping ecologist' pap we've had crammed down our throats for decades now. Perhaps it takes a European to get away with this.

Likewise, the scene between Stan and Mitch where he says, "Don't give me that 'I'm the mother, you can't suffer like I do' crap. I love Rosie and I stayed" also went against the Hollywood grain in a satisfying way.

The problem for me is that they have built a case for everyone but Holder and Linden to have been the murderer and now it seems as if they are randomly picking one character as the killer. Knowing the killer in the original Danish version is now dead in the AMC version only adds to the reason that I'll not be satisfied with the ending, pretty much no matter what they do.

[OldGiants]

Much to my surprise, I did enjoy the final episode. They managed to make the final plot twist (while not unexpected) very real and not contrived. And the final scenes for each set of major characters were very good, too.

If the last three episodes had been the final three of the first (and therefore only) season, this would have been a first rate series. We all know what could have been cut from the first season to have made that possible.

[stevew]

Who killed her?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by stevew

Who killed her?

Spoiler

The aunt, she didn't know it was her, just some chick in a trunk.

[stevew]

Season 3 in May. Can wait!

[Radii]

what? I thought it got cancelled?

[sabotai]

According to Wikipedia, Fox Television Studios made a deal with Netflix and AMC. AMC gets to air the episodes before they go up on Netflix in return for sharing some of the production costs.

[spleen1015]

While catching up with Mad Men, the commercials for the new season of this show have made me very interested in watching it. So, I watched episode #1 last night on Netflix. I really liked it. Are the folks here sticking with it? I don't want to read through the thread because I don't want spoilers.

[Desnudo]

Do you like rain? Like a lot of it. all the time.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Do you like rain? Like a lot of it. all the time.

It takes place in Seattle, right? I've never been there, but it rains a lot there, yes?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

While catching up with Mad Men, the commercials for the new season of this show have made me very interested in watching it. So, I watched episode #1 last night on Netflix. I really liked it. Are the folks here sticking with it? I don't want to read through the thread because I don't want spoilers.

My thinking: this show will actually hold up better watching after-the-fact than it did in real time. It's pretty well done and well acted overall, and worth the time, I think, despite being a bit heavy-handed and too clever sometimes. There were some issues related to real-time buzz that you will skip watching it now, and I suspect you'll like the show more than the average person who watched it week by week originally. Stick with it.

[jeff061]

Have had zero interest since season 1. From what friends have told me about season 2 it was a good choice.

My perception is for every 4 fantastic episodes there are 8 eye rollingly stupid and ham fisted episodes that blow up the 4.

[Izulde]

The last episode of Season 2 irritated the hell out of me. Up to that point, it was admittedly uneven in many respects, but still engaging enough to keep watching.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The last episode of Season 2 irritated the hell out of me. Up to that point, it was admittedly uneven in many respects, but still engaging enough to keep watching.

I think that's a pretty fair summary.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It takes place in Seattle, right? I've never been there, but it rains a lot there, yes?

Not at all in the way it's portrayed. And watch it, you'll see what I mean.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

While catching up with Mad Men, the commercials for the new season of this show have made me very interested in watching it. So, I watched episode #1 last night on Netflix. I really liked it. Are the folks here sticking with it? I don't want to read through the thread because I don't want spoilers.

The big problem we all had (lots of little issues with meandering plots) was that the writer had said it was a one season deal with the solution in the season 1 finale. Then it wasn't, so all felt lied to. Season 2 was reasonably solid. The acting was orders of magnitude better than the writing, so there is that going for it. I loved the actors who played Holder and Stan, the father.

That said, I don't have any interest in watching this on-again, off-again, on-again third season until it is over and the reviews are in. I'll get the DVD out of the library if people whose opinion I value say it is worth watching, but I won't risk wasting my time until I know that.

[Bigsmooth]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It takes place in Seattle, right? I've never been there, but it rains a lot there, yes?

It's set in Seattle but filmed in Vancouver. Typical.

[QuikSand]

So, through two episodes of season three...a few observations:

Spoiler

The echoes of The Wire transitioning to its season two are strong...even deliberate, or just obvious?

I like seeing hope that this will be much less gotcha-driven with its plot twists

Skaarsgard is one of those guys it's hard to take your eyes off

I hope they're done jerking the Holder character back and forth - he's plenty complicated and interesting now, just go with it

If this just turns into a somewhat more character driven and complex good guys chase bad guy plot... I think that might be too drastic a switch from the first two seasons (so I don't expect that we've already met/seen the central bad guy/s)

[Johnny93g]

I've enjoyed the first 3 episodes of this season. I officially give it my (meaningless) stamp of approval! haha

Holder has been great. I like his new partner slowly and consistently driving him back to Linden. He has good chemistry with both.

Saarsgard, his scenes have been much watch TV.

So far, the story has been told in a way that really holds my attention, and the acting is top notch, as is normal for this show.

Any guesses to if we have seen the killer yet? I'm saying no, though, I'm horrible at predicting well written shows.

[Radii]

I feel like Season 3 has started pretty well. I'm stealing this thought from critics that I listen to: They are doing a great job of making me interested in the victims and potential victims by getting us involved in some of their lives. I never gave a shit about Rosie Larson, other than the fact that I thought her dad was awesome. That made it hard to invest in a two season arc to figure out who killed her. So far that's a non-issue here, which helps.

Past that, /agree with QuikSand on pretty much everything. I believe its been announced that this is a one season case, so hopefully they can put together a solid, full season without having to rely on much absurdity to drag out the story. Skaarsgard is compelling, Holder remains the highlight of the show to me. I still find Linden annoying, that's probably not changing.

My expectations are still low, but so far, so good.

[Radii]

bump, I was pretty surprised to see that there's only two episodes left this season. They've really done a very good job not going off the rails, and I feel like they've done a solid job of telling a good story so far.

Joel Kinneman's acting remains the highlight of the series to me no matter what else they do, so of course I found last night's episode to be spectacular, probably the best of the series so far. Peter Sarsgaard has been solid all season as well and the big scene with him last night was outstanding as well. We even got a scene with Linden and a kid where she didn't come across like a complete out of control nutjob. Bravo!

I'm actually legitimately looking forward to seeing how they wrap up this season now, I never thought I'd be saying that!

[Johnny93g]

+1

Sunday's episode was fantastic. I just wanted to echo Radii's comments. Love this season. Kinneman was just awesome on Sunday.

[Radii]

what just happened? That... that was just a terrible ending. None of it makes any sense, they did nothing all year to earn that "twist" in the final two hours, and most of the stuff that was supposed to be riveting and emotional I had zero investment in because they did absolutely nothing to make me care about any of this.

So, so weird after everything they did well this year.

I'm curious to see if others liked it!

[path12]

My wife liked it. I haven't been able to watch because the first season pissed me off so much.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Radii

what just happened? That... that was just a terrible ending. None of it makes any sense, they did nothing all year to earn that "twist" in the final two hours, and most of the stuff that was supposed to be riveting and emotional I had zero investment in because they did absolutely nothing to make me care about any of this.

So, so weird after everything they did well this year.

I'm curious to see if others liked it!

I liked it, I expected a twist ending, and came away satisfied. I did care about the characters, and even the Seward, and Bullet, and to a lesser extent Callie were all gone, I felt they did a good job with who was left.

Holder is just a fantastically entertaining character. His IA scenes were gold.
"Don't mind the pictures of me banging your mama" hahaha.

I thought they pretty much nailed the whole season, and I'm looking forward to season 4.

[Peregrine]

Has anyone watched The Fall on Netflix? Similar concept, and only one series (so far) but I think it's a great show along the same lines as The Killing.

[jeff061]

If they did a spinoff on Holder I'd give it a shot. Still haven't gotten back in since season 1 and most of what I read have justified my reasons for avoiding.

[QuikSand]

Just finished.

Found the ending of season three neither baffling nor stupid - just an expected twist, executed reasonably well. The antagonist (the actor) is quite good, and in retrospect did seem undercast. Hindsight, I know.

Holder character gets into the ranks of most interesting dramatic TV supporting players... Like Omar from The Wire, Pembleton from Homicide, and a handful of others.

[QuikSand]

Anyone into the fourth season? I'm contemplating starting soon...

[QuikSand]

I just finished Season 4.

Had an interesting experience doing so. Late last night sat down to watch starting with Ep 5, and then started up Ep 6. I knew the 4th season was 10 episodes from looking it up earlier (and since then staying away from IMDB etc for fear of spoilers) so I was really puzzled how the show seemed to be very tidily wrapping up in Episode 6. And then it very clearly did. Turns out I was wrong about there being 10 episodes, oops my bad.

It was the reverse of what I called the old Law-And-Order clock trick. "Well, it can't be her, it's only 10:35 and if she did it, the show's over... and we have 20- minutes to go, so hold tight for another twist." Here I kept muttering to myself about "WTF are they going to do for the next four hours of television???" Funny stuff at 4am, at least.