F*** You FOFC

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Most fitness instructors do!

Next meet-up: Buffalo Athletic Club!

[Buccaneer]

At CFC, a relatively large board with multiple mods, always give a public reason for every action - whether trolling, needing to delete offensive remarks or posts. They are much more strict than fofc but the mods are a part of the community and have built trust even if they are a little heavy handed.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Subby's gone?

WTF!??!! Isn't he one of those people that there isn't a line for?

I don't come around here on a regular basis, but I have no idea what's going on. I feel like I walked into a house and the cops are there.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

At CFC, a relatively large board with multiple mods, always give a public reason for every action - whether trolling, needing to delete offensive remarks or posts. They are much more strict than fofc but the mods are a part of the community and have built trust even if they are a little heavy handed.

I frequent homebrewtalk, and there is a large OT community there, every post deleted by mods is changed to a reason as to why it was deleted, it doesnt just disapear.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is the restrictor-plate FOFC thread. Just waiting for the 'big one'.

[Buccaneer]

wade, my words were not clear, I apologize. Less active mods (like wade) does describe you, even by your own admission.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I frequent homebrewtalk, and there is a large OT community there, every post deleted by mods is changed to a reason as to why it was deleted, it doesnt just disapear.

That would be a good start here.

I also think we're a mature enough group of guys that we could have a vote on how to handle the images thread and let the plurality rule.

[Galaxy]

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm not going to troll through the various threads, but this is a very specific complaint made in many of these threads. I know it's not the only one, but it is a recurring one. In fact, in this incident specifically (either in here or the images thread) there is a discussion about it becoming more strict in the last year.

Ok then, sounds like you've got your finger on the pulse of the community.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

I don't think "strict" is what people have a problem with.

Hmm ... I started to just +1 this and then thought about it a little further.

I believe it isn't, and it is.

There's certainly a contingent that would prefer a more relaxed approach to modding in general. But I think that's a smaller contingent than the one that would be happier with a more consistent/rational approach to modding overall.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

That would be a good start here.

I also think we're a mature enough group of guys that we could have a vote on how to handle the images thread and let the plurality rule.

HBT has a seperate OT forums; debate forum (I removed my own access from that), NSFW forums... etc. so people can police themselves.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

I also think we're a mature enough group of guys that we could have a vote on how to handle the images thread and let the plurality rule.

That would imply/require FOFC to have an element of democracy ... that doesn't exist, never has that I can recall.

On that point, I'd say you're wishing for something that simply isn't in the realm of possibility.

[cmp]

It's a slow day at work, I'm thinking of popping some popcorn and hanging in this thread all day.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That would imply/require FOFC to have an element of democracy ... that doesn't exist, never has that I can recall.

On that point, I'd say you're wishing for something that simply isn't in the realm of possibility.

You may be right.

Can we change that? That's why I asked in the separate 'existential fofc' thread, who owns this place? But didn't get a clear answer. As it stands now, I don't even know who to direct complaints to. Or someone to which we could plead our case, see what options are available for a possible change of policy or management. Hey - we're all grown ass men. We're 40!

[Subby]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

You may be right.

Can we change that? That's why I asked in the separate 'existential fofc' thread, who owns this place. But didn't get a clear answer. As it stands now, I don't even know who to direct complaints to. Or someone to which we could plead our case, see what options are available for a possible change of policy or management. Hey - we're all grown ass men. We're 40!

Operation Sports owns this board. Ben mods the board for OS.

[KWhit]

I still don't understand the deal with Subby. Was his forum title changed at his request as a joke (wouldn't surprise me), or did a mod change it on their own accord? And if so, why?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But I think that's a smaller contingent than the one that would be happier with a more consistent/rational approach to modding overall.

I believe this to be the case as well. It goes beyond stealth-deleting pictures in one particular thread. It also has to do with why someone can go "FUCK YOU" and nothing happens, while another user posts some seemingly innocuous comments and gets 90 days (seriously, 90?) in the box. It also has to do with moderators expressing their contempt for a large portion of this community. It has to do with the seemingly arbitrary standards of moderation from thread to thread and even moderator to moderator.

[KWhit]

And since you're here, maybe you can answer that, Subby.

[Izulde]

The communication issue is a big one.

When threads get locked or posters get banned on Paradox's forums, for example (just to cite a much larger board than FOFC), nobody bitches. The mods make it very clear in the lock/ban exactly why this happened and refers to a specific rule, and yes, it is stricter there than on FOFC in many ways.

Frankly, we shouldn't have to play Blues Clues when pics get deleted or posters get boxed/banned. We're not preschoolers following a big blue dog around, trying to solve mysteries.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

It also has to do with why someone can go "FUCK YOU" and nothing happens, while another user posts some seemingly innocuous comments and gets 90 days (seriously, 90?) in the box.

But, as you pointed out earlier, not all f.u.'s are created equal. Maybe not all seemingly innocuous comments are created equal either. At that point it becomes less a matter of consistency and more a question of judgment.

It also has to do with moderators expressing their contempt for a large portion of this community.

If only that were the main qualification for being a mod, I'd be all set

FWIW (which is nearly nothing but it's on my mind so I'll mention it anyway) ... I think I've mentioned in the past that I once had mod duties at a forum that did FOFC-level traffic. The more time goes by, the more this place reminds me of that place. There isn't anything here -- by posters nor mods -- that strikes me all that out of the ordinary frankly. It's very much s.s.d.forum.

[Buccaneer]

s.s.d. ?

[wade moore]

I'm not sure how I could have been more clearer that I was addressing that specific contingent while recognizing that there are a number of other complaints. Those taking pot shots at me for that (not directed at jimga) need to learn some reading comprehension skills.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by wade moore

learn some reading comprehension skills.

Always an effective method of communication...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

s.s.d. ?

That was an attempt to reconfigure the familiar phrase "Same Shit Different Day" into the more applicable "Same Shit Different Forum"

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm not sure how I could have been more clearer that I was addressing that specific contingent while recognizing that there are a number of other complaints. Those taking pot shots at me for that (not directed at jimga) need to learn some reading comprehension skills.

Alright, well, if you think this conversation is about the fact that some people want the right to post pictures of women in scantily clad clothing then you've certainly made your case. I had assumed that the more pertinent and interesting debate here was the one being addressed, because the other is mostly non-existent (in my opinion) and your point is obvious.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I can understand this perspective from a member standpoint. I took a many-year hiatus from FOFC because I tired of some of the personalities here. The break was probably good for everyone.

But in regards to moderators - and speaking as the former owner of this site- the quiote above pisses me off to no end if moderators feel this way (this is NOT directed at Cuervo!!!!). I realized that when I started tiring of the site, I selected new mods to take over the day-to-day operations. I had to take a break because a number of folks who I prefer not to name really annnoyed the piss out of me. I eventually gave it up entirely and walked away out of respect for the people here AND my own mental well-being.

So, to any mods who feel like this (again, not Cuervo!):

There's absolutely no reason to be a moderator of this site if you don't like the people here or don't like the site anymore. Continuing on as a moderator under those circumstances does a disservice to yourself and the people on this forum. Hiding behind a moderator title so you have a little power in your life is not worth it. If you find yourself stealth-deleting pictures or moderating in a passive-agressive way, ask someone else to do the job and walk away. You can come back at a later time, but don't continue to moderate. It's not a job that you have to do or (if you feel like this) should be doing. Don't perform a disservice in the guise of trying to perform a service.

Note I am not stepping up to volunteer. FOFC means quite a bit to me - more than probably anyone realizes. But my time is done and I don't want a second bite of the apple. That's probably best for everyone, including me.

Exceedingly well said. Volunteering if you don't like it here is an internet power trip, nothing more.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by KWhit

And since you're here, maybe you can answer that, Subby.

Just meant in fun. Not to be taken seriously, as usual.

[wade moore]

Again with the reading comprehension.

Please show me where I said that "this is what this discussion is about". I very clearly addressed a specific subset of complainers and, again, acknowledged that it was a subset.

I am not addressing the picture deletion because I cannot address something I was not involved in. I've been down these roads many times both here and in the Facebook group. I am generally willing to discuss my actions, but cannot speak for others. As a member of a team, you work within the constraints of the system.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I never said you said that, I mistakenly assumed you were talking about the larger discussion. Because the discussion you're having is a party of one.

This isn't about an action. It is about the constraints of the system.

[cuervo72]

FWIW, I'll ask again.

The perception is that the mods have run off some of the most valued posters, lessening the value of the board.

Who are the posters who we don't see anymore whose absence we lament?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Subby

Just meant in fun. Not to be taken seriously, as usual.

So you were just trolling?

[Izulde]

BTW did the Most Ignored Posters thread get deleted? I wanted to re-read it to refresh my memory on it when I saw it got bumped, and now it's not there.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

FWIW, I'll ask again.

The perception is that the mods have run off some of the most valued posters, lessening the value of the board.

Who are the posters who we don't see anymore whose absence we lament?

Are we talking just about folks who we know were banned, or opening that up to incorporate others who have left for who knows what reason (maybe modding related, maybe not?), which is a larger list

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Izulde

BTW did the Most Ignored Posters thread get deleted? I wanted to re-read it to refresh my memory on it when I saw it got bumped, and now it's not there.

yeah, i saw it, and read it... then noticed the last post was in 09... so maybe its not gone, just the bumping post?

[Izulde]

That would make sense.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So you were just trolling?

No?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Are we talking just about folks who we know were banned, or opening that up to incorporate others who have left for who knows what reason (maybe modding related, maybe not?), which is a larger list

If you lament their absence because they don't post here anymore then go ahead and list them. If you are very sad that wignifty and wignasty can no longer post, by all means include them in your list.

The great outcry seems to be "CURSE YOU MODS, YOUR UNEVEN HANDS ARE KILLING THE BOARDS!" I want to see if that is actually the case by looking at examples to determine if that indeed was the reason those posters have left and/or cut back their activity. I'm not convinced that there are more of these than there are former posters who left because of the sentiments in my quote above.

[Desnudo]

I miss the ludicrousness of jbmagic

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

BTW did the Most Ignored Posters thread get deleted? I wanted to re-read it to refresh my memory on it when I saw it got bumped, and now it's not there.

I'll sum it up. I won.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I miss the ludicrousness of jbmagic

That's why the cut and paste of his best joke ever is memorialized in my sig.

[digamma]

Let me add one thing. Jon kind of hit on this, but if you have a sense of FOFC history, you will know that a claim that FOFC is "more" restrictive is just not accurate. For many years, the ability of posters to include images or attachments in posts was limited due to a number of concerns (some content based, some technical). Moderation was also broader and more frequent in general.

Ben has really made one request in the last couple of years with regard to posting pictures of scantily clad women. For whatever reason, people seem to love to test that and generally be ass-hattish around that issue. Why some feel the need to steadfastly defend that practice to the death, I'll never understand. But to each his own.

There may be a valid complaint that modding of that thread is inconsistent in its frequency. I can speak for myself and, I believe, other mods in saying I don't have real time or interest in monitoring an image thread on a daily basis. If someone would like that job and would do so according to the parameters Ben has set forth, I'm sure he would welcome you aboard.

To address a few specific reported posts over the last few days:

1. NorvTurnerOverdrive was boxed for a direct insult on another poster.

2. JiMGA was not boxed for what was pretty clearly a tongue in cheek comment regarding his women's NCAA pick 'em bracket. I for one found the comment pretty funny, but realize my sense of humor devolves to the least common denominator pretty quickly.

3. Schmidty was not boxed for this thread. He started it based on some misinformation. And, of course, he's Schmidty.

Lastly, as for the suggestion that there needs to be new modding blood, maybe so, but I think the thing people need to remember is that the mods are FOF focused as part of the FOFC. Hard to find another group that has been more consistently involved in the FOF side of things. In the end, that's probably not going to change. I realize a lot of you mod or participate in other boards and your mileage may vary in how you do things or how things are done other places, but again, this place is what it is. A good number of us have been around here for more than a decade and I think a good number will continue to be.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Subby

No?

What about bumping the ignore list thread and then deleting your post? Trolling?

What about requesting a "banned" status during some board drama without being banned. Trolling?

You have strange hobbies.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by molson

You have strange hobbies.

Says the guy who posts incessantly on a message board for a sports text sim that he doesn't even play.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by digamma

1. NorvTurnerOverdrive was boxed for a direct insult on another poster.

Quoting for future reference.

[molson]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The great outcry seems to be "CURSE YOU MODS, YOUR UNEVEN HANDS ARE KILLING THE BOARDS!"

Whenever the criticism of the mods is bitched about, it's usually described in these terms, as a "great outry", with all caps, and with exaggerated dramatic language. It's all used just to belittle people's opinions. That's kind of what some people are getting at. There's just a general disdain/disrespect from the get-go. It's not even so much about the modding. People have rational criticisms. Those are usually either not responded to at all, belittled in the way you do here, or trolled with behind-the-scenes chicanery. (Though I do appreciate the rare instance of a mod sincerely weighing in.) But (almost) nobody has ever actually used that kind of language to complain, or been so passionate about it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Subby

Says the guy who posts incessantly on a message board for a sports text sim that he doesn't even play.

I post in the off-topic section of the board. Which yes, is still a pretty strange hobby, I admit. I do think trolling that section is quite a bit stranger though, as far as hobbies go.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by molson

I post in the off-topic section of the board. Which yes, is still a pretty strange hobby, I admit. I do think trolling that section is quite a bit stranger though, as far as hobbies go.

It's not a hobby. It's called bored at work, which happens occasionally. Stop being so goddamn sensitive.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Quoting for future reference.

Definitely feel free to use as you see fit.

Obviously, there are varying degrees of insults and as such may warrant differing treatment. Decisions are made based on the facts and circumstances of the given situation.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Subby

It's not a hobby. It's called bored at work, which happens occasionally. Stop being so goddamn sensitive.

I kind of felt bad and defended you when I thought you were "banned". But you were just trolling. What a fool I was. You showed me.

And ah yes, the "everyone else but me is being too sensitive" card. That's the one RedKingGold plays when he gets his panties in a wad about stuff.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by molson

Whenever the criticism of the mods is bitched about, it's usually described in these terms, as a "great outry", with all caps, and with exaggerated dramatic language. It's all used just to belittle people's opinions. That's kind of what some people are getting at. There's just a general disdain/disrespect from the get-go. It's not even so much about the modding. People have rational criticisms. Those are usually either not responded to at all, belittled in the way you do here, or trolled with behind-the-scenes chicanery. (Though I do appreciate the rare instance of a mod sincerely weighing in.) But (almost) nobody has ever actually used that kind of language to complain, or been so passionate about it.

F*** You FOFC was a pretty decent outcry, I thought. Attempting to establish alternate boards is also a pretty spirited reaction. But you're right, perhaps those with mod complaints - like you might see in the images thread, or in the Unbox the Fox thread - aren't typically written with ALL-CAPS.

I would like some evidence to back up this line of thinking though:

Originally Posted by molson

It's a lot less vibrant than it used to be. Nobody's leaving en masse but the mods have driven off some long-time posters. That's been detrimental to the board.

So...who's been driven off?