NFL Week 4 Thread

[Desnudo]

How is that not a penalty?

[Desnudo]

Power rushing!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Now that I'm aware that there are serious after-effects from concussions, possibly including strong suicidal thoughts and an inability to concentrate years later, I have a harder time seeing someone lead with his head or get knocked silly. I can understand someone making choices that will lead to early arthritis or other aches and pains. You play contact sports, you know that cost. These concussions are something else, though.

A friend of mine has a son who's my son's age. The kid is a talented hockey player, but had a moderate concussion last winter. They held him out the rest of the season, which was good. Just months later, when the Red Wings were having all those playoff battles with the Blackhawks, she posted one of those stupid meme pictures on her Facebook that showed a Red Wing standing over an obviously shaky Chicago player lying on the ice and a caption essentially making fun of getting knocked out. I blocked her feed.

I don't think the game is becoming unwatchable. I think it's only course that can save the game. These changes need to go all the way down past high school. Once they do, players will come up knowing safer tackling. They will police themselves and the flaggable hits will be more obvious.

This is an uncomfortable transition stage that's probably near the peak of uncomfortable.

Well said.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Racer

Thought it was fair catch interference as well but unless that's an automatic ejection, I don't think the Falcons player should have been ejected. It didn't really look intentional. The guy was coming off a block.

Ejection might be an overreaction given that it looked like he just concussed our best remaining receiver, but after Talib pulled off him that gunner absolutely lowered his shoulder and launched himself into someone who's in a more defenseless position than any receiver will ever be. Official missed him lowering the shoulder and FCI is a judgment call? Fine, but that'd better be more of a fine than whatever Lavonte David got for pushing Geno Smith during a run.

[BishopMVP]

Sweet, another blatant missed call and another injured WR (albeit, in this case, the two had little to do with each other).

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Sweet, another blatant missed call and another injured WR (albeit, in this case, the two had little to do with each other).

There have been some major league missed head shots today. Schaub was hit helmet to helmet on a play late in the Texans game that would have set up a GW field goal attempt.

on the play you are talking about, a clear cut missed holding call and what could have been a head shot.

Horrible.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Now that I'm aware that there are serious after-effects from concussions, possibly including strong suicidal thoughts and an inability to concentrate years later, I have a harder time seeing someone lead with his head or get knocked silly. I can understand someone making choices that will lead to early arthritis or other aches and pains. You play contact sports, you know that cost. These concussions are something else, though.

A friend of mine has a son who's my son's age. The kid is a talented hockey player, but had a moderate concussion last winter. They held him out the rest of the season, which was good. Just months later, when the Red Wings were having all those playoff battles with the Blackhawks, she posted one of those stupid meme pictures on her Facebook that showed a Red Wing standing over an obviously shaky Chicago player lying on the ice and a caption essentially making fun of getting knocked out. I blocked her feed.

I don't think the game is becoming unwatchable. I think it's only course that can save the game. These changes need to go all the way down past high school. Once they do, players will come up knowing safer tackling. They will police themselves and the flaggable hits will be more obvious.

This is an uncomfortable transition stage that's probably near the peak of uncomfortable.

Jim,

I agree with everything you said here, multiplied by 2000.

I'm sick of the whining with the head shots. Enough. You don't need to do it. I understand you are never going to eliminate concussions from the sport, but I think a much harder line needs to be taken. I think the NCAA ejection policy is a good start to that. I think it needs to be increased.

If football is to survive, those type of hits will have to be eliminated. They can be eliminated. They should be eliminated.

[cuervo72]

This game seems so sterile and boring. Maybe it's just the dome.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

There have been some major league missed head shots today. Schaub was hit helmet to helmet on a play late in the Texans game that would have set up a GW field goal attempt.

on the play you are talking about, a clear cut missed holding call and what could have been a head shot.

Horrible.

I was actually going to absolve Moore of blame on the Dobson injury... Dobson was going to the ground awkwardly (because of the hold) and the ball was thrown at the ground. But then Moore just tried to decapitate Thompkins (and luckily only got him with the elbow and not his helmet), so fuck him.

This is part of the reason why I hate the emphasis on "late hits" near the sideline... I don't know if implementing the NCAA targeting rule will have any effect unless the NFL starts showing they actually care about concussions by fining players more for targeting players in the head than shoves near the sideline or wearing the wrong color visor clips.

[DaddyTorgo]

All caught up!

[DaddyTorgo]

Monster game by Kenbrell tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

PICK!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Great hands by Boyce there....nicely done.

Some serious big plays helping the Pats tonight.

I can't believe Blount can run as fast as he did on that TD BTW. That was crazy.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

This game seems so sterile and boring. Maybe it's just the dome.

It could be the dome + Atlanta crowd, but a lot of that's just the Patriots this season. Win ugly and boring until Amendola and Gronk (and now Wilfork - fingers crossed on that one) get healthy.

Oh, PS I'll add the question I ask once every year (in this case after Gostkowski's 1st FG) - why doesn't the NFL build goalposts 10 yards higher? Or if we want to get crazy, use the same system tennis uses for challenges to tell by radar whether it went in. I'm not asking for it on 1st downs, but FG's would seem to be pretty easy.

[cuervo72]

Probably all that, yes. Damned Pats sleeper hold.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Probably all that, yes. Damned Pats sleeper hold.

Yup. Time to allow a late score or two so we can keep sneaking up on people. (There's #1 as I type this!)

Btw, replay equipment not working? Classic NFL conspiracy against the Patriots, or more Goodell incompetence (I think it was probably a catch + fumble anyway.)

[DaddyTorgo]

Awesome - way to not recover the onside kick guys.

[DaddyTorgo]

Time for the defense to man up

[DaddyTorgo]

That ought to be a first down - that's such bullshit.

[Solecismic]

Why bother with the review if they're not going to use convincing evidence?

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh - what a fustercluck.

Nice breaks for Atlanta there.

[DaddyTorgo]

You're fucking kidding me.

[BishopMVP]

Which had more close/outright bad calls go against the Patriots in the 2nd half, this game or last year's early season night game vs. the Ravens?

W's a W. Sign Talib to an extension now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Why bother with the review if they're not going to use convincing evidence?

I know right?

So fucking stupid. They might as well just say "the spot of the ball is unchallengeable" for all the times I've ever seen a spot adjusted.

[DaddyTorgo]

Phew.

[Solecismic]

They could have called interference on the first Gonzalez pass there, so not everything went against them. Huge win for them. Really a statement to go into Atlanta and play so well.

Anyway, hello TiVo... time to see what happens to Walt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Really a statement to go into Atlanta and play so well.

Against a 1-3 team that appears to be going nowhere fast ... other than to about 6-10 this season.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Against a 1-3 team that appears to be going nowhere fast ... other than to about 6-10 this season.

I would only list the Miami game as a surprise loss. 4 out of their next 5 are highly doable. No, they won't win the division, but there is going to be a scramble for at least one of the wild card spots with teams like San Fran and GB being lower than expected.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I would only list the Miami game as a surprise loss. 4 out of their next 5 are highly doable. No, they won't win the division, but there is going to be a scramble for at least one of the wild card spots with teams like San Fran and GB being lower than expected.

Just not seeing this team as being able to win consistently.

I see them winning the next two (Jets, Bucs), then losing 3 straight (at 'Zona, at Carolina, vs Seattle) to fall to 3-6.

Then it's a win at Tampa maybe, a loss to the Saints at home, then losses at Buffalo & Green Bay. By then it's a 4-9 team. Beat Washington at home, lost at SF, beat Carolina (in by then an upset) at home to finish 6-10.

[Solecismic]

New Orleans is showing some D, so that division lead may hold up, but I think Atlanta's good for 10 this season. Three one-score losses to teams that otherwise haven't lost - two on the road. Just a rough schedule so far. Some fine-tuning in the red zone will fix the offense. I think this is a playoff team.

[Danny]

You think Atlanta will lose at Arizona? I think they win the next 3 and pranks at Carolina as well

[Logan]

Vince Wilfork reportedly tore his achilles last night.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Vince Wilfork reportedly tore his achilles last night.

Flipping field turf.

Report -- Vince Wilfork of New England Patriots has torn Achilles - ESPN Boston

[CleBrownsfan]

Browns are in first place
Indians are in the playoffs
Steelers are 0-4

Have a great Monday FOFC!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Browns are in first place
Indians are in the playoffs
Steelers are 0-4

Have a great Monday FOFC!

This is awesome.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Browns are in first place
Indians are in the playoffs
Steelers are 0-4

Have a great Monday FOFC!

If you throw in the Pirates being in the playoffs too, you truely have a bizzaro world full circle.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Its happened 4 times before, 5 if you include a tight end.

2004 Indianapolis Colts with Manning

But I thought this was his best group of receivers EVAH!

Just the usual moronic sportscaster meme of this season - can you really rate this batch that much higher than Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark, and maybe some of the others that came through the Colts system?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Flipping field turf.

Report -- Vince Wilfork of New England Patriots has torn Achilles - ESPN Boston

FML

Oh well - didn't think they had more than an outside shot at a SB this year anyways, at least now maybe they can use the year to bring the rookies up to speed.

[Logan]

What else is new?

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m

League is discussing whether to suspend Buccaneers S Dashon Goldson for his latest helmet-to-helmet hit Sunday vs. Arizona.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Now that I'm aware that there are serious after-effects from concussions, possibly including strong suicidal thoughts and an inability to concentrate years later, I have a harder time seeing someone lead with his head or get knocked silly. I can understand someone making choices that will lead to early arthritis or other aches and pains. You play contact sports, you know that cost. These concussions are something else, though.

A friend of mine has a son who's my son's age. The kid is a talented hockey player, but had a moderate concussion last winter. They held him out the rest of the season, which was good. Just months later, when the Red Wings were having all those playoff battles with the Blackhawks, she posted one of those stupid meme pictures on her Facebook that showed a Red Wing standing over an obviously shaky Chicago player lying on the ice and a caption essentially making fun of getting knocked out. I blocked her feed.

I don't think the game is becoming unwatchable. I think it's only course that can save the game. These changes need to go all the way down past high school. Once they do, players will come up knowing safer tackling. They will police themselves and the flaggable hits will be more obvious.

This is an uncomfortable transition stage that's probably near the peak of uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well said.

Originally Posted by TroyF

Jim,

I agree with everything you said here, multiplied by 2000.

I'm sick of the whining with the head shots. Enough. You don't need to do it. I understand you are never going to eliminate concussions from the sport, but I think a much harder line needs to be taken. I think the NCAA ejection policy is a good start to that. I think it needs to be increased.

If football is to survive, those type of hits will have to be eliminated. They can be eliminated. They should be eliminated.

Just to clarify my original statement.

I don't find it unwatchable because of the increased focus on concussions. I'm all for safety first.

I find it unwatchable as a byproduct of the changes I guess. The officials have a very difficult job. I couldn't do it. But we keep adding additional rules that are interpreted and applied in a very inconsistent manner. And maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't enjoy 49-45 games. If the launching tackles are taken out of the game (and should be), something has to give the other direction.

I always think back to an article I read in, I think, SI a couple years back. A league official was asked about why cut blocking was acceptable, and the reason was "it's tremendously difficult to run the ball in this league. That tactic is needed to make it fairer" (paraphrasing). Not equating knee injuries to headshots, but it's sure difficult to stop a WR when you can't touch him.

In hockey, the refs are pretty solid about letting a defending player tie up a player heading into the corner, given the alternative is launching the guys into the boards. Allowing some contact with the receiver keep the defender closer, and lessens the amount of times another defender is coming in for a kill shot. IMO.

[albionmoonlight]

Falcons could be 4-0 right now. Every loss came down to the end against three good teams. I think that they will be in the playoff picture come December. This will, however, be a good test of Mike Smith's and Matt Ryan's leadership. There is a chance that the wheels could come off at 1-3. I don't think that they will, but we've certainly see it before, where a bad start ends up revealing/expanding underlying team dysfunction.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

FML

Oh well - didn't think they had more than an outside shot at a SB this year anyways, at least now maybe they can use the year to bring the rookies up to speed.

Lol... you know, DT, if I am ever just way over the moon optimistic for some reason, I know I could always turn to you to keep me grounded.

Don't worry. I think the Pats will still be fine.

[Kodos]

You're running out of Brady years!

[Matthean]

'NFL Films Presents': Horsin' around with Kansas City Chiefs safety Eric Berry - NFL Videos

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

They could have called interference on the first Gonzalez pass there, so not everything went against them.

Oh, I know - the 50/50 calls downfield ended up split, you just had 2 really bad no-calls early (the Edelman fair catch and the hold on Dobson in the end zone), and just when you think the Pats have sealed the game up you get a really bizarre challenge "ruling" (I don't even think it would have been overturned, but considering how vague the definition of a catch is, those are always a crapshoot) against the Pats that's almost amusing because the game's almost over, until the wheels keep falling off and all of a sudden the refs hand the Falcons a chance to tie on a play ~95% of viewers at home would've said he got the first down.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Lol... you know, DT, if I am ever just way over the moon optimistic for some reason, I know I could always turn to you to keep me grounded.

Don't worry. I think the Pats will still be fine.

Nobody claims the sky is falling after an opening 3 and out like DT does, and I laugh at him when he does that, but he's pretty spot on here. You don't just lose an All-Pro D-Lineman without it being a big blow (same thing with the Bears and Henry Melton). We still get enough turnovers and have improved enough in the secondary that we've got a chance to win in any postseason game, but this does weaken our run defense and open up the chance for a Houston or Baltimore to dominate us with a power running game.

Btw, keep it classy Falcons fans booing Wilfork when he was down. Even if we're desperate to slow down a no-huddle, we're not going to have Vince Wilfork faking an injury in a goal-to-go situation.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Lol... you know, DT, if I am ever just way over the moon optimistic for some reason, I know I could always turn to you to keep me grounded.

Don't worry. I think the Pats will still be fine.

10-6 fine, 11-5 fine yeah. SB-bound...I doubt it. Like I said - it was going to be tough against the Broncos before, this just makes it that little bit tougher.

Hey...I hope they prove me wrong, just trying to manage my own expectations.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Kodos

You're running out of Brady years!

Don't remind me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Oh, I know - the 50/50 calls downfield ended up split, you just had 2 really bad no-calls early (the Edelman fair catch and the hold on Dobson in the end zone), and just when you think the Pats have sealed the game up you get a really bizarre challenge "ruling" (I don't even think it would have been overturned, but considering how vague the definition of a catch is, those are always a crapshoot) against the Pats that's almost amusing because the game's almost over, until the wheels keep falling off and all of a sudden the refs hand the Falcons a chance to tie on a play ~95% of viewers at home would've said he got the first down.Nobody claims the sky is falling after an opening 3 and out like DT does, and I laugh at him when he does that, but he's pretty spot on here. You don't just lose an All-Pro D-Lineman without it being a big blow (same thing with the Bears and Henry Melton). We still get enough turnovers and have improved enough in the secondary that we've got a chance to win in any postseason game, but this does weaken our run defense and open up the chance for a Houston or Baltimore to dominate us with a power running game.

Btw, keep it classy Falcons fans booing Wilfork when he was down. Even if we're desperate to slow down a no-huddle, we're not going to have Vince Wilfork faking an injury in a goal-to-go situation.

I didn't say the sky was falling with the 3 and out . Just not used to seeing those from this team and they're frustrating is all.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Btw, keep it classy Falcons fans booing Wilfork when he was down. Even if we're desperate to slow down a no-huddle, we're not going to have Vince Wilfork faking an injury in a goal-to-go situation.

Not saying that it is right but I think fans see this along the same lines as they see baseball players and steroids or soccer players and diving. The players have sort of lost the benefit of the doubt when it comes to faking injuries. If teams (because I don't think the players are doing it without the coaches' approval) stop faking injuries, they will be less booing.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Just to clarify my original statement.

I don't find it unwatchable because of the increased focus on concussions. I'm all for safety first.

I find it unwatchable as a byproduct of the changes I guess. The officials have a very difficult job. I couldn't do it. But we keep adding additional rules that are interpreted and applied in a very inconsistent manner. And maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't enjoy 49-45 games. If the launching tackles are taken out of the game (and should be), something has to give the other direction.

I always think back to an article I read in, I think, SI a couple years back. A league official was asked about why cut blocking was acceptable, and the reason was "it's tremendously difficult to run the ball in this league. That tactic is needed to make it fairer" (paraphrasing). Not equating knee injuries to headshots, but it's sure difficult to stop a WR when you can't touch him.

In hockey, the refs are pretty solid about letting a defending player tie up a player heading into the corner, given the alternative is launching the guys into the boards. Allowing some contact with the receiver keep the defender closer, and lessens the amount of times another defender is coming in for a kill shot. IMO.

If it gets 100% out of line, they'll start making changes to allow the defense to do more. Now, it really isn't that far out of line. 4 teams are averaging 30 or more points, one of which will most certainly not be within a few weeks (Bears).

Having 2 to 3 teams above 30 a game isn't a real shock. The Broncos obviously look pretty damned good now, but we'll see if they stay over 40 a game when they go through the stretch of @SD, KC, @NE, @ KC before we go too crazy.