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03-21-2020, 04:24 PM
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#1951 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Some good news:
Cepheid | Xpert® Xpress SARS-CoV-2 has received FDA Emergency Use Authorization FDA approved 'instant diagnostic test' (45 minutes) A similar test also used in Austria, so presumably soon elsewhere in Europe. New blood tests for antibodies could show true scale of coronavirus pandemic | Science | AAAS Much closer to an antibody test to identify people that had the virus (helping to narrow down actual case numbers on cases with mild symptoms that never got tested diagnostically. Could be important to identify people with immunity to handle close-contact work in various industries as well) Unfortunately, Spain is likely to get much worse very soon as the numbers practically mirror Italy with a 6 day delay. Apparently the senior homes are especially hard hit and often lack basic Equipment (gloves and masks). And very spotty testing and mostly only those with significant symptoms ...
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“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 03-21-2020 at 04:47 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 04:46 PM
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#1952 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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NYC is basically stopping testing in part because of the shortage of PPE. I guess they think it has spread to an extent that finding and isolating the positives isn't possible anymore.
Seems like pretty bad news.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 05:17 PM
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#1953 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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The 1-2% weak and old are just going to be left to die now. Governors like Desantis are the mayor from Jaws. He still hasn't shut down his state. You'll see a lot more state closures this week and maybe national but the damage is already done.
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03-21-2020, 05:40 PM
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#1954 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Numbers unreliable and all that, but Michigan's now #1 in the Midwest, 5th nationally behind a few of the worst coastal states. There isn't enough money in the world to convince me to visit Detroit right now.
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03-21-2020, 05:55 PM
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#1955 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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__________________
'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! |
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03-21-2020, 05:59 PM
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#1956 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PDX
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My mom lives in Detroit. She broke both her legs in january, had to have surgery, and while she was in rehab she caught some OTHER respiratory virus (RSV) and was quarantined in the hospital for 30 days thru February. Thankfully she's at home and not packed in an institution with hundreds of other folks & isn't mobile enough to do anything but isolate, but I still imagine her risk level is off the charts.
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Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 06:10 PM
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#1957 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Rome is one of my favorite places to visit and I've always wanted to go back to explore more of Italy. It's scary and sad to see how bad off they are right now. I get the theory about more elderly with pre-existing, more smokers etc. but can that explain how disproportionate it seems? Is it now that healthcare system is stretched so thin, healthcare providers are sick themselves, lack of medicine & equipment, sanitizing procedures etc? |
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03-21-2020, 06:14 PM
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#1958 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Seeing pictures of the Javits center being setup as an emergency hospital is fucking grim. We are just at the beginning of this.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 06:19 PM
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#1959 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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Quote:
Not a celebrity in the US, but a name known to most European football fans  Lorenzo Sanz: Former Real Madrid president dies after contracting coronavirus - BBC Sport
__________________
'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! |
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03-21-2020, 06:30 PM
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#1960 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EToyuCJW...pg&name=medium
Too big to embed, but good graphical illustration why time is so crucial here ... And reading that Colorado f.e. is doing donation drives for medical Equipment and can only test 'risk groups' (seniors, hospitalized and health workers) that is just worrying as hell ... Especially since the US struggling with this will have a ripple effect to countries depending on them for this material and other help ...
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 03-21-2020 at 06:39 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 06:37 PM
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#1961 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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Quote:
From work experience, many welders have lung issues due to the fumes from welding. I am not familiar with many guys that either wore PPE or wore their PPE properly. |
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03-21-2020, 06:43 PM
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#1962 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
There is a theory that there is a genetic component. That some people may be more susceptible to serious conditions. Perhaps that genetic makeup is found more in Italians for instance. Likely won't know the answer to that for a long time. But it is weird how some people get a mild cold like symptoms and someone with a similar makeup is on a ventilator in a hospital. Maybe its different strains, genetic makeup, how much of the virus you're exposed to, or something else. Should add that men seem to be in bigger danger too for reasons unknown. |
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03-21-2020, 06:53 PM
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#1963 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Men smoke more than women and in general are more vulnerable to respiratory issues statistically. Doesn't seem strange that this would be the same issues here. And at least the deaths in Italy are mostly seniors with an average age in the high 70s (79, i think)
And Italys healthcare system in the most hit Lombardy region is not "stretched thin", they are well past that for days now. A Report from 4 days ago talked about them having between 1/4 and 1/5 of the ventilators they would need and many doctors and nurses come from departments with little experience with respiratory illnesses (orthopeadic surgeons f.e.) And like i said before, once that happens everything goes downhill fast and it can't improve as long as the influx of patients stays high. Another thing is the social structure in Italy and Spain with a lot of multi-generation living, people living with their parents way longer than other countries etc. My guess: When the lockdown went into effect there were already way too many households or other livin units with at least one infected person who then spread it within those.
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“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 03-21-2020 at 07:41 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 07:51 PM
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#1964 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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It would be fascinating if there was a DNA component. And the point about multi-generation, extended family living with each other is likely contributing factor (which gives me some hope the severity is less here since its not as common in the US).
I also wonder if its because there are so many tourists so close to each other (crazy busy and crowded when I went took the Vatican tour guided tour) and that more people got infected more quickly. EDIT: just googled on European countries with most tourists. Spain & Italy check but France seems to not have it as bad. Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 03-21-2020 at 08:04 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 07:59 PM
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#1965 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
My condolences to you - and her. Hopefully she'll be able to escape the virus. |
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03-21-2020, 08:00 PM
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#1966 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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We went to Home Depot and Krogers today.
Home Depot was business as usual. Got our flowers, herbs, weed killer etc. Looked like any other Saturday other than noticeably some social distancing. Krogers was still out of hand sanitizers/soap, paper towels, toilet paper. However, it was better compared to last time I went. Plenty of potatoes, tomatoes, lots of fruits & vegetables. Meats were a little bare but still plenty. Canned stuff were again noticeably low in quantity and variety. Plenty of eggs, bread, frozen stuff. Disappointingly, unlike another post here, the cashier & assistant did not wear gloves nor wipe down the credit card equipment. I do think things have calmed down from last week. But I believe the reported infected (and deaths) will increase significantly next week and more states will declare a pseudo stay-at-home ... so I'm willing to bet there'll be another rush to stock up. Last edited by Edward64 : 03-21-2020 at 08:23 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 08:17 PM
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#1967 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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St. Louis city and county have issued a stay at home order starting Monday.
__________________
Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
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03-21-2020, 08:18 PM
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#1968 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Grocery isn't as busy where I live either. It'll take the supply system some time to adjust, and agree there could be more rushes but right now that part of things is the least of my concerns.
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03-21-2020, 08:49 PM
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#1969 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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We've now passed Spain and Germany in total cases and we'll be Italy next week. We need a national stay at home order immediately. All non essential business should be closed.
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03-21-2020, 08:58 PM
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#1970 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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Quote:
Im still crowing, but I said this 3 weeks ago.
__________________
Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
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03-21-2020, 09:10 PM
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#1971 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the Lombardy region has a lot of Chinese residents and that a delegation visited in late January.
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03-21-2020, 09:27 PM
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#1972 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
I think Washington state is a good barometer of how things can play out. Decently large state with one very big metro area, and it unquestionably strained the resources in the one epicenter, but outside of the one nursing home/hospital cluster they've kept a lid on ICU admissions & deaths instead of seeing an overwhelming statewide spike like Lombardy had. Massachusetts is another one that was either the 2nd or 3rd real hotspot (thanks Biogen! - I forget if the Albany GA cluster was known before or after), and while I think there was the 1st in state death (an 87 y/o) there hasn't been a huge spike in ICU admittance's or mortality rate. New York is obviously the major scary place right now where exceeding capacity could lead to a huge number of deaths. I saw some fleeting reference to 19 nursing homes in Florida being affected, which would also obviously be a disaster, but it seems like enough people are working from home or paying attention to the shelter in place orders (plus we live in a more disconnected society than one like Italy where generations interact a lot more & a lot more of town life is based around plazas & foot traffic or public transportation.) And there definitely are a few states doing a terrible job responding to this and a quicker or more coherent national plan would've been welcomed, but I'm increasingly convinced known cases will skyrocket as testing capacity comes online, but that the US's mortality rate from this will be 1% or below. (Right now it's about 1.25% - 302/23,649) |
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03-21-2020, 09:36 PM
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#1973 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Multiple cases at Riker's Island prison. Prisons are a nightmare for coronavirus.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 10:04 PM
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#1974 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Was just a matter of time. The prison one is tough. My opinion is we certainly shouldn't be diverting resources to prisons, and if anything taking resources from prisons for the general public. Those people made their choices and those choices have consequences. |
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03-21-2020, 10:23 PM
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#1975 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Been a while since i read about that, but unless i totally misremember: Almost none of those are/were infected and most definitely were not a major contributor compared to Italians that travelled to China and back. And even if a large percentage of early cases originated from chinese, that is not the reason for the rapid undetected spread after. Similar to the US precious time and ressources werenwasted trying to stop a virus from entering that was already spreading inside.
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 03-21-2020 at 10:31 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 10:25 PM
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#1976 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PDX
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What about jails? Those folks are probably in worse conditions for transmission and haven't necessarily been found guilty of anything (yet).
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Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. Last edited by thesloppy : 03-21-2020 at 10:30 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 10:35 PM
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#1977 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Why would prisons be that much at risk ? Maybe i Imagine it wrongly, but arent there much fewer personal contacts than elsewhere ? (you basically need to be Close to a person to spread it)
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” |
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03-21-2020, 10:38 PM
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#1978 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Thats the rub. What do you do? Release them? |
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03-21-2020, 10:38 PM
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#1979 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
I am pretty sure they are right on top of each other. Roommates, eat in confined area, work in confined areas. Imagine not very clean. |
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03-21-2020, 10:39 PM
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#1980 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Not really. Shared mess halls, showers, rec areas, etc... |
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03-21-2020, 10:41 PM
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#1981 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Ok, fair enough. Not heard anything like that happening in Europe though so far.
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” |
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03-21-2020, 10:43 PM
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#1982 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Healthcare in jails is total shit. Sanitation in jail is total shit. Once it gets in, they'll eventually be overrun. What do you do for the hospitalization and ICU cases?
They made their choices can apply to all of us eventually. They chose to live in NYC. They chose to be in a nursing home. They chose to go shopping. Condemning the inmates to suffering and death certainly doesn't say anything good about our morals.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 10:45 PM
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#1983 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Choosing where to live and where to shop is very different than choosing to break laws and not conform to the rules of society |
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03-21-2020, 10:48 PM
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#1984 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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So any punishment is now a potential death penalty? And what about the percentage that is innocent?
Let 'em die in jail is really no different than let the old people die so the money keeps rolling.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 10:51 PM
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#1985 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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There's no good answer to the prison situation that I can think of. Could say more, but it would be overly political for this thread. .
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03-21-2020, 11:05 PM
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#1986 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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How is the Situation in retirement homes ? Reportedly a big issue in Spain and here in Germany there also have already been 2 major breakouts acounting for about 1/3 of the deaths so far.
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” |
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03-21-2020, 11:08 PM
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#1987 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
What is your solution? |
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03-21-2020, 11:11 PM
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#1988 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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At this point I'm not sure. We probably need an evac area for anyone testing positive, but we haven't started those, so it's probably too late for some. I'm not the public health expert, but let 'em die is morally repugnant to me. There have to be some things we can do, especially in the prisons where the outbreaks haven't begun.
edit: It isn't just violent felons. There are those convicted of property or drug possession or financial crimes. There are those being held pre-trial. There are guards and other staff.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers Last edited by JPhillips : 03-21-2020 at 11:12 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 11:19 PM
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#1989 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
Crime is crime. Are some worse more than others, absolutely, but they all gave up certain rights when they made their choices. I will admit people awaiting trial is far more of a slippier slope. Would you be ok with someone serving 7-9 for armed robbery being kept alive on a ventilator over your wife or mother |
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03-21-2020, 11:30 PM
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#1990 |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2012
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What's the outlook for say a midwestern town of 40,000 or so? That's what I'm wondering is how the smaller cities will do.
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03-21-2020, 11:34 PM
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#1991 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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I think the big cities will do the worst for fairly self-evident reasons. It's going to suck for everyone though as the economic impacts keep multiplying.
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03-21-2020, 11:38 PM
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#1992 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Over 12k confirmed cases in NY and 26.5 nationally.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 11:42 PM
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#1993 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Logic seems to say: Better than big cities usually, but worse if there is a sudden high number of infected as a 'cluster' (less likely the more travel and events are limited) due to then quickly exceeding capacity of the local hospitals. But overall, the less people and the smaller the area the easier it should be to practice social distancing and any regulations should be easier to introduce and enforce ... Plus, infected people will be more likely to know a larger number of people they have had contact with, which makes tracking and testing those easier than in big cities.
__________________
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!” Last edited by whomario : 03-21-2020 at 11:45 PM. |
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03-21-2020, 11:43 PM
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#1994 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
That's not how it works. But even if it were, you're on a very slippery slope when you start saying some lives are worth more than others. Again, we can provide better care in a lot of prisons. We can provide better sanitation. We can work to provide isolation areas. I admit it's a personal, religious belief, but I'm always against the death penalty. It's the same logic here.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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03-21-2020, 11:47 PM
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#1995 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Dear Lathum, I have nothing nice to say about you so I'll refer to the kindly old soul Mr Rogers: 
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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03-21-2020, 11:59 PM
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#1996 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Well we now know who would've pressed the Joker's detonator to blow up the prisoner boat in the Dark Knight.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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03-22-2020, 12:00 AM
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#1997 |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Spare me the faux outrage.
Hard decisions have to be made. I would rather those decisions go in favor of productive members of society, or at the very least not ones who are a drain on the system. |
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03-22-2020, 12:01 AM
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#1998 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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With some areas (and more coming) making the apparently necessary step of only testing for those already severely symptomatic, I think it's safe to say the death toll and overrun hospitals is unfortunately what we have to look at now to gauge where we are, because we're never going to get close on the testing cases front due to equipment/manpower shortages at this point.
On the mortality front there hasn't been a huge spike the last few days, 40-60 each of the last four. That'll go up, but how far and for how long is the million-dollar question I'm pondering. |
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03-22-2020, 12:02 AM
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#1999 | |
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Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
I'll ask you the same question. What is your solution? You ok with a child molester getting a ventilator over your wife or mother? |
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03-22-2020, 12:07 AM
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#2000 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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There are people who work at a prison too. The virus doesn't just die within those prison gates.
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