The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Am I the only on that thinks Trump and the GOP are simply gonna cheat, and if it comes to light, justify it? Isn't that the pattern we're seeing with quid pro quo, Russia, and everything else?

Just this week the GOP got a few hundred thousand voters purged in WI and GA. The whole party is working to make sure the election goes their way.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Just this week the GOP got a few hundred thousand voters purged in WI and GA. The whole party is working to make sure the election goes their way.

And of course I am sure they didn't make any note of registered party affiliation did they?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Am I the only on that thinks Trump and the GOP are simply gonna cheat, and if it comes to light, justify it? Isn't that the pattern we're seeing with quid pro quo, Russia, and everything else?

Yes but I think this is one of the few "both sides" sentiments that I agree with. I think that is a large percent of the GOP base who believe that the Democrats are cheating when it comes to voter registration.

[JPhillips]

But there's almost no evidence of that, and we now have plenty of evidence of GOPers trying to suppress Dem voting through actions like these.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But there's almost no evidence of that, and we now have plenty of evidence of GOPers trying to suppress Dem voting through actions like these.

The city I live in sort of went through something like that. The city was classified as a town for a long time even though it had over 10 times the population to make it officially a city. While it was a town, all of the town council seats were at large seats. When we switched over to a city, the city was made into districts with each getting a council seat with 2 at large seats. The way the district lines were dawn, 2 of 8 districts ended up being heavy Democrat districts. Who knew? The first year the city council was in place, they elected 8-2 to redraw the district lines so that those 2 Democratic district were re-arranged. Now all 10 city council members are Republicans.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But there's almost no evidence of that, and we now have plenty of evidence of GOPers trying to suppress Dem voting through actions like these.

Because our current political beliefs are based on a mutual agreed upon set of evidence?

[albionmoonlight]

I know we live in a post-fact world, but for those that care, the GOP is now the party of high deficits.

[QuikSand]

It turns out voters actually care about the current economy.

So, you violate every rule and norm available to rig the system. Cook the books on your tax cut scoring to pretend it won't harm the budget deficit, okay. Cut interest rates while we're at full employment, sure. Create market chaos with international trade so you can time the release of newly optimistic information to juice the markets, of course.

Just make sure there's no recession or visible economic weakness before November 2020. And even if there is, simply deny that it's happening.

The playbook is sitting wide open.

[Izulde]

So let's see, we've had the following:

* Trump claiming the Salem Witch Trials defendants had more due process than a him
* A Republican congressman claiming Jesus had more due process before crucifixion than Trump
* Another Republican congressman saying this impeachment vote is like Pearl Harbor

Feels like I should set up a histronic comparison Bingo card or something.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not talking about questionable tactics like purging voter rolls. Those may technically be legal. And I'm not talking about Ruasian trolls influencing stupid people to vote for Trump in an effort that wasn't coordinated with the GOP brass. That's just smart--albeit ruthless--politics.


I'm talking full-fledged cheating: hacking voting machines, changing votes, getting rid of D votes cast after the fact. At this point, why WOULDN'T they try that???

[NobodyHere]

Well they did last election, so yes.

North Carolina GOP Operative Faces New Ballot Tampering Charges : NPR

[NobodyHere]

M0AR spending, woohoo!!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1YL24C

Next we need to create MegaForce!

[MIJB#19]

If Facebook and Google try hard enough, they might be able to get a grip on the fake news era that keeps Trump in charge, so we can give the world a shot at not losing the battle against global warming. Or will Trump and sidekicks finally start paying attention about that you can't "make America great again" if there's nothing left in the world to make great.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

So let's see, we've had the following:

* Trump claiming the Salem Witch Trials defendants had more due process than a him
* A Republican congressman claiming Jesus had more due process before crucifixion than Trump
* Another Republican congressman saying this impeachment vote is like Pearl Harbor

Feels like I should set up a histronic comparison Bingo card or something.

When tragedy strikes and someone says we really need to turn down the rhetoric, I will remember this post.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

If Facebook and Google try hard enough, they might be able to get a grip on the fake news era that keeps Trump in charge, so we can give the world a shot at not losing the battle against global warming. Or will Trump and sidekicks finally start paying attention about that you can't "make America great again" if there's nothing left in the world to make great.

As long as Zuckerberg is having private dinners with Trump I don't see Facebook changing anything.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Based on what? I'm not trying to be snarky or dismissive, but I just don't see it. The GOP got their clocks cleaned in the midterms and every special election I've seen in the places he'd need to win. Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, they all tell the same story. It's not one that's good for his re-election. I'm not writing him off as long as the economy is good, we're a long way from next November, etc., but every single time since he was put in office that the voters he needs to keep him there have gone to the polls, they've said the same thing.



Yep, this is a big part of it. I'm with you 100% here - presidents come and go, but this kind of social change tends to be more enduring - and therefore dangerous.

If the Democrats aim for the suburbs like 2018, they *should* win. I never underestimate the DNC's ability to shoot their own feet off, though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Based on what? I'm not trying to be snarky or dismissive, but I just don't see it. The GOP got their clocks cleaned in the midterms and every special election I've seen in the places he'd need to win. Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, they all tell the same story. It's not one that's good for his re-election. I'm not writing him off as long as the economy is good, we're a long way from next November, etc., but every single time since he was put in office that the voters he needs to keep him there have gone to the polls, they've said the same thing.

Latest polls show him winning Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. And a dead heat in Ohio. Georgia was going to get tough for him but the state did a lot to prevent certain people from voting and is likely safe.

It is possible that he loses by 5-8% and wins the electoral college. Remember he lost the popular vote by a good margin and held a large electoral victory.

We know he's unpopular and can't win a democratically held election. But he can win the way our country sets things up.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Latest polls show him winning Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. And a dead heat in Ohio. Georgia was going to get tough for him but the state did a lot to prevent certain people from voting and is likely safe.

It is possible that he loses by 5-8% and wins the electoral college. Remember he lost the popular vote by a good margin and held a large electoral victory.

We know he's unpopular and can't win a democratically held election. But he can win the way our country sets things up.

While I 100% agree with the 2nd and 3rd paragraph, it's worth noting that general election polling this far out is completely useless.

[Izulde]

I think unity messaging isn't going to work in 2020. Things are still too polarized. Dems need to nominate an angry firebrand and make the campaign about righteous fury at economic inequality and how to address it. That's it. Shift it into a turnout battle and a war over the positive large economic indicators vs the negative reality of people's individual daily lives.

That means forget about other forms of inequality in the messaging (though address it later in legislation, etc). Eschew railing on Trump's personal character and legal failings.

Make it purely about the money.

[JPhillips]

That's pretty dangerous when the polling on the economy is so favorable to Trump.

[Thomkal]

So Trump is impeached on both counts, nearly by party line, 2 Dems voted no(3 for the second count) and no Republicans voted yes for either. Democrat in Name Only Tulsi Gabbard Voted Present for both counts.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Latest polls show him winning Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. And a dead heat in Ohio. Georgia was going to get tough for him but the state did a lot to prevent certain people from voting and is likely safe.

Right, but polls historically don't mean a darned thing this far out. That's why the midterms & special election results are far more compelling at this point in the game. It's not as if some of those elections have gone one way and others another - AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong, every.single.one of them has seen the Republican underperform Trump in '16.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It is possible that he loses by 5-8% and wins the electoral college.

Extremely unlikely. Trump's victory was the only the second popular vote loser in modern history, and Bush in 2000 was only about 0.5% short of Gore. It's worth remembering that from 1892 to 1996 the popular vote winner was undefeated. I mean, it's possible, but in the sense that Martians visiting us tomorrow is possible. The further that percentage goes out, the more exponentially unlikely it becomes and it took a quite unlikely set of circumstances to make it occur. The only reason to even start suspecting it would be if we get past the conventions and still have a historically high level of undecideds like last time. I don't see that happening, or any reason to expect it yet.

Originally Posted by Izulde

forget about other forms of inequality in the messaging (though address it later in legislation, etc). Eschew railing on Trump's personal character and legal failings.

Make it purely about the money.

I couldn't disagree more. Draw every point of distinction you can. It's the right thing to do whether it works or not - and as mentioned, making it about the money is playing right into Trump's strength. He's going to hammer on about the good economy, it's one of very few cards he has to play.

[Brian Swartz]

Also, almost everyone is being ridiculous. House Dems pondering not even sending the articles to the Senate? McConnell and Schumer reversing their positions on witnesses etc. for the trial without the slightest attempt to justify the switch from what they said in the Clinton impeachment??

Embarassing. Unfortunately I think this is destined to be even more of a circus that it needed to be.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Also, almost everyone is being ridiculous. House Dems pondering not even sending the articles to the Senate?

You have the Senate Majority Leader openly bragging about how he's in total coordination with the White House defense team on how to run the trial, and another Senator stating bluntly - in direct contravention of the oath he'll be required to swear if and when the Senate is empaneled as Trump's jury - that he's not an impartial juror and will do everything in his power to sink the trial.

Why in the world would Democrats send the articles of impeachment to the Senate before they have a sense of what the rules of the road would be?

You don't know how firm a hand John Roberts is going to take with this, so that's just begging for McConnell to move to dismiss this whole thing in 24h and then set Trump up for 11 months of bragging about how he was completely and totally exonerated of the Angry Democratic Witch Hunt leading into the 2020 elections. Why give him that gift?

If the Senate isn't going to play this straight, there is absolutely zero reason for Democrats not to hang onto the AoI and continue to append additional articles onto them over the next, oh, six months and just keep the news cycle negative for Trump.

Nakedly political? Maybe, but that's the wind they're sailing into in the first place, so...why not?

[Brian Swartz]

Because it's a mockery of the entire process to vote on it if you aren't going to send them to the Senate. The Senate is in charge of the trial - you don't impeach at all if you aren't willing to let them take that role. You don't get to say you are just doing what the framers intended blah blah blah - which is true, and exactly why it was the right thing to do - and then turn around and play games like this. Either you impeached him because it was a necessary constitutional remedy or you didn't. Pick one.

[PilotMan]

Know what else was a mockery?

The supreme court seat in 2016.

A lot of this starts there. You could use it as, let's say, motivation for just about anything the dems want to do. It was that bad.

[kingfc22]

I believe comparing Trump’s impeachment trial to the trial of Jesus is just a bit of a stretch as well...

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Because it's a mockery of the entire process to vote on it if you aren't going to send them to the Senate. The Senate is in charge of the trial - you don't impeach at all if you aren't willing to let them take that role. You don't get to say you are just doing what the framers intended blah blah blah - which is true, and exactly why it was the right thing to do - and then turn around and play games like this. Either you impeached him because it was a necessary constitutional remedy or you didn't. Pick one.

If things were being done in a "normal" sense politicaly, then yes the House should send the articles of Impeachment to the Senate in a timely manner. But its clear the Republicans aren't playing by "normal" rules these days. I mean McConnell saying he's in lockstep with the White House on impeachment, Graham already saying that he won't be an impartial juror, the White House ignoring subpoenas and not letting witnesses testify, etc. Not to mention that their version of an "impartial" trial will be over in a couple weeks and Trump will crow he's been exonerated, then really why should the Dems hand them over?


They did their part by the Constitution, and clearly the Republicans will not so clearly this has become political now, and the Dems should do what they can there to get whatever leverage/pressure they can on McConnell to force him to give in on some of the Dems requests. Make them look as bad as possible for as long as they can before November.



And there are still some court decisions all the way up to the Supreme Court right now on things like Trump's taxes that could open a whole new round of Impeachment hearings.

[bronconick]

I don't think they're ruling on Trump's taxes until the summer, in which case they're only good for general election ads. No one is going to be in favor of *more* hearings while the party conventions are happening. This is your only bullet in the chamber.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Because it's a mockery of the entire process to vote on it if you aren't going to send them to the Senate.

Yes, I'm sure the Democrats will be so bummed that you don't support them anymore if they don't follow the rules.

The rules don't apply anymore. They stopped applying the moment Trump took the oath. I'd like to get them to apply again as much as the next guy, but we're going to have to have some guerrilla warfare to get back to that place, if it's even possible.

[panerd]

So if Trump gets reelected is he still impeached? Ask because a really shrewd GOP senate could just impeach him like a month into his second term and put Pence or whoever they want in for a full term.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I don't think they're ruling on Trump's taxes until the summer, in which case they're only good for general election ads. No one is going to be in favor of *more* hearings while the party conventions are happening. This is your only bullet in the chamber.

March is what I've been reading

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by panerd

So if Trump gets reelected is he still impeached? Ask because a really shrewd GOP senate could just impeach him like a month into his second term and put Pence or whoever they want in for a full term.

Any bills that aren't signed into law in Congress die in January 2021. I assume that would include impeachment.

[Thomkal]

Mark Meadows one of the members of the Freedom Caucus, not running for re-election:


First in POLITICO Playbook: Mark Meadows to leave Congress, plus what McConnell will say on impeachment - POLITICO

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by panerd

So if Trump gets reelected is he still impeached? Ask because a really shrewd GOP senate could just impeach him like a month into his second term and put Pence or whoever they want in for a full term.

Impeachment = indictment. Removal = conviction.

But, yes, he could ostensibly be impeached again for any reason after the Senate votes to ignore his malfeasance.

[Chief Rum]

My inclination was to agree with Brian that if an impeachment was voted for, it should be forwarded to the Senate.

But what Thomkal is saying makes sense to me. While it is entirely a political move, it would be clever to not send it.

Obviously, the Senate is not going to remove Trump, and yes, McConnell and company have been rather too open that they are in step with the White House on this.

So what happens if the Dems send it? The Senate conducts a mockery of the case, bending and reframing everything toward a pro-Trump view, decries the whole process as partisan, and votes it down. All handing Trump a big win with pro-Trump impeachment news in constant flow through the height of election season.

If they keep it in the House, it just stays there, out of Trump's reach, staining his legacy, drawing continued negativity about his actions and his Presidency.

It's quite Trumpian actually, upending convention.

[NobodyHere]

Trump only deals with the best trading partners:

US government lists fictional nation Wakanda as trade partner - BBC News

[Thomkal]

ah I wondered why Vibranium was trending on twitter this morning...

[Thomkal]

I don't know how big/important Christianity Today magazine is amongst Evangelical Christians today, but they have come out with this editorial today:


Trump Should Be Removed from Office | Christianity Today

[Flasch186]

either the link's bad or dear leader got them to change their thoughts.

[QuikSand]

Trump Should Be Removed from Office | Christianity Today

None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.

Given the source...perfectly said.

[JPhillips]

Surprising, honestly, how many GOPers are settling on the idea that the president, or at least Trump, has power that can not be checked by anyone.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Trump Should Be Removed from Office | Christianity Today



Given the source...perfectly said.

Means nothing. Evangelicals as a group are the most morally bankrupt people in this country.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Surprising, honestly, how many GOPers are settling on the idea that the president, or at least Trump, has power that can not be checked by anyone.

They are really going to love it when Warren wins.

[JPhillips]

The Defense Department’s senior adviser for international cooperation earlier this week left the Pentagon, marking the fifth top official in seven days to leave or announce their departure.

Those include the Dec. 12 notification that top Asia policy official Randall Schriver would leave after two years on the job, the Dec. 13 announcement that top official in charge of personnel and readiness Jimmy Stewart had resigned after taking the role in October 2018 the Tuesday report that Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency leader Steven Walker will leave in January, and the news earlier Wednesday that Principal Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Kari Bingen submitted her resignation on Dec. 5 and will leave Jan. 10.

Seems like these should get some attention. Coincidence, a purge, or a protest?

[Edward64]

Ah, I can only imagine the Christmas (and Thanksgiving) meals ...

George Conway has a savage new nickname for post-impeachment Trump

So what do you call a person who holds the most powerful office in the world, stewing over his inability to influence a coequal branch of government that just accused him of high crimes and misdemeanors?

George Conway has an idea.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Matt Shea (Mr. Manifesto) showing off those good conservative values we're all missing.

Washington Democrats call for GOP state Rep. Matt Shea to be expelled after latest allegations | The Seattle Times

The latest on Mr. Shea

Washington Rep. Matt Shea engaged in domestic terrorism against U.S., says state House report | The Seattle Times

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The latest on Mr. Shea

Washington Rep. Matt Shea engaged in domestic terrorism against U.S., says state House report | The Seattle Times

Not surprised at all considering his texts and the fact that he was involved in a militia that trained children to fight in the coming holy war.

[SirFozzie]

Both parties have told him to step down, and the State Republicans have expelled him from the party. Shea, of course, is clinging to Trump and calling it all fake news.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Both parties have told him to step down, and the State Republicans have expelled him from the party. Shea, of course, is clinging to Trump and calling it all fake news.

So I went to his Facebook page and he (his team) is deleting any negative message making it look like he has strong support and he is blocking anyone who leaves a negative comment or laughs at his post. What a pussy.