01-07-2020, 05:15 PM | #20751 |
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01-07-2020, 05:30 PM | #20752 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Iran is currently bombing us in Iraq. Al Asad base is being hit the most it seems.
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01-07-2020, 06:13 PM | #20753 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: the yo'
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Great
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01-07-2020, 06:15 PM | #20754 |
Coordinator
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01-07-2020, 06:15 PM | #20755 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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If these are ballistic and not just rockets, that's bad news.
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01-07-2020, 06:26 PM | #20756 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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It's a good thing I've already failed miserably in the military. I won't be drafted.
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01-07-2020, 06:39 PM | #20757 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
hey so how’s he doing? |
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01-07-2020, 06:42 PM | #20758 |
Coordinator
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01-07-2020, 06:49 PM | #20759 |
Head Coach
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What's the fucking clown going to do now
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01-07-2020, 06:57 PM | #20760 |
Coordinator
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Some reports that we have plans in the air already. Iran is telling countries that any attacks that originate from their boarders will make them a target for retaliation as well. Iran seems to be trying to isolate our forces as much as possible and fracture our support in the middle east. |
01-07-2020, 06:58 PM | #20761 |
Head Coach
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01-07-2020, 07:03 PM | #20762 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Our military is a mess but if this is true, there are going to be a lot of dead Irani pilots. This is one area that the US does not fuck around.
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01-07-2020, 07:33 PM | #20763 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Curious, but in what ways are you determining that the military is a mess?
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01-07-2020, 07:46 PM | #20764 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Bunch of unfilled positions at the top of the military. Decades of strategic folly. A mush brained moron in charge of the whole thing. What can anyone have seen from our military in the past 50-60 years to give them confidence going forward? |
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01-07-2020, 07:49 PM | #20765 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Lol... that's what your basing this off of? I mean actual military stuff, not political.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 01-07-2020 at 07:49 PM. |
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01-07-2020, 08:15 PM | #20766 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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So far it sounds like the Iraqis have the casualties at the two bases hit. Who the hell would want to be put ally going forward.
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01-07-2020, 08:17 PM | #20767 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, I don't get this either. You can almost always trace the root of military blunders to politicians. When you stay the fuck out of the way and let competent military leaders do what they get paid to do and get out we are pretty effective. See Desert Storm 1. |
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01-07-2020, 08:19 PM | #20768 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Well we have cool military stuff and well-trained soldiers. We also haven't won a war in like 70 years. Political leaders are the one's who command the military. And results matter. |
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01-07-2020, 08:21 PM | #20769 |
High School Varsity
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Location: Lowcountry, SC
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01-07-2020, 08:22 PM | #20770 |
Coordinator
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01-07-2020, 08:47 PM | #20771 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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What competent military leadership? Tommy Franks was found to be a buffoon way in over his head. I think he spends his time now bilking charities set up for wounded vets he sent into battle. It wasn't politicians who botched Tora Bora. It was Petraeus who came up with the failed COIN plan in Afghanistan (I believe this war around the time he was passing classified info to his fuck buddy). Sanchez was just a disaster which is well-documented. Casey was clueless and let the mess exacerbate itself because he had no idea how to handle the insurgency. With no performance departures or accountability of any kind as you climb the ranks, you just end up with a bunch of mediocre generals handling conflicts they are not equipped to deal with. |
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01-07-2020, 09:01 PM | #20772 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Sanchez moved with 1st AD onto the post I was stationed at in Germany during the Summer of '01 and was post commander there during 9/11 until I left roughly a year later. My limited interaction with him was on 9/11 and was a complete shitshow that nearly resulted in a soldier getting run over, shots nearly being fired at his caravan by gate guards, and a lot of screaming and yelling. No one I spoke to that knew him really cared much for him or respected him. Our Brigade Commander could not stand him. I did have some interactions with his Sergeant Major who was as big of a jackass as you could find. Between the incident on 9/11 and the decisions he made about how things operated on post after his arrival I'm not the least bit surprised of what happened later in his career. Last edited by Atocep : 01-07-2020 at 09:03 PM. |
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01-07-2020, 09:14 PM | #20773 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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I didn't want Trump to be the one to do it, don't trust him at all in his response (can we please go after their nuclear sites or Hormuz instead of "cultural" sites), but if this truly does get Iran to outwardly attack us under their name instead of proxies like the Ayatollah allegedly said and they apparently did tonight that's a win long term. Unfortunately you'll still have Saudi Arabia & Russia funding some enemies, but if they're smart they'll STFU & at least wait until Trump finds a different shiny new toy to focus on to start sowing discord. |
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01-07-2020, 09:17 PM | #20774 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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"we don't want a war with iran but we're prepared to finish one"
put your dick away, dicks |
01-07-2020, 09:19 PM | #20775 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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I've never heard good things about Sanchez. Petraeus was very smart, perhaps not as smart as he thought he was, but I don't think the larger structural issues were on him. Regardless, I think even Rainmaker is acknowledging that we'll dominate in any air battle or conventional military fight, due to better technology alone (though I also think we have better training at those elite levels). You start trying to invade Iran or whatever? Yikes. But tit for tat air strikes? Sure, LFG you idiots.
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01-07-2020, 09:32 PM | #20776 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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My assessment (1) Don’t start a nuclear war TBD (2) Secure the borders and reform immigration (somehow) Pretty good in securing borders. Holistic immigration reform not being done, its just very targeted and not as effective IMO. 6 or 7/10 (3) Greatly reduce ISIL, resolve the Syrian war He doesn't get all the credit but pretty good on ISIL. Syria is still TBD but its getting there. 8/10 (4) Strengthen our relationships with friends Poor other than Israel and maybe frenemy Saudi Arabia. Russia doesn't count. 3/10 (5) Reduce our dependence on global oil, encourage alternate fuels He doesn't get all the credit because a lot was already in place before 2016 but he hasn't done much to screw it up. So I'd give him a 7/10 (6) Balance the budget and reduce the deficit Total failure. 0/10 (7) Grow the economy & stock market Economy is not growing as much as he said but I'll take the 2-3% anyday. Stock market is doing wonders so far. 9/10 (but will reduce if the stock market crashes) Probably should also add (8) North Korea I had high hopes that Trump could do a breakthrough with the crazy kid. All is not lost but probably not going to happen. I'll give him some credit for trying. 3/10 (9) China This one is still up in the air. He gets a lot of credit in trying and I'm still not sure what's in the suppose Phase 1 deal. So I'll say TBD What is your assessment? Last edited by Edward64 : 01-07-2020 at 09:40 PM. |
01-07-2020, 09:46 PM | #20777 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Timely and foreshadowing (?) if not photoshopped.
Incredible 'red devil horns' sunrise photos captured during rare solar eclipse mirage over the ocean Quote:
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01-07-2020, 09:52 PM | #20778 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Yeah, land invasion of Iran won't work nor can I forsee a necessity with all the nice toys we have. Closest is another buildup in Iraq but that brings a host of other issues. |
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01-07-2020, 10:06 PM | #20779 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Not good. BBC is reporting just with headlines that a Ukrainian plane crashed in Iran.
I doubt it has anything to do with the latest escalation but not a good week for the region. Ukrainian passenger plane crashes in Iran - BBC News Quote:
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01-07-2020, 10:06 PM | #20780 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Iran seems to be sending signals that they'll stop if the U.S. stops. With no Americans killed, that's the obvious choice, but who knows which Fox host Trump will listen to, Hannity or Carlson?
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01-07-2020, 10:24 PM | #20781 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Got to wait until tomorrow to address the people because he starts sundowning with the sunset and speaking from the Oval Office is different from frothing at the mouth at a MAGA rally.
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01-07-2020, 10:25 PM | #20782 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Stop what, openly attacking us incompetently & go back to kinda successfully fighting us via proxy? I agree that the lack of US casualties gives Trump the out if he wants it, but what part of anything he's ever done gives you the impression Trump will agree to a ceasefire if someone else threw the last punch, even if it was a miss? I will say I'm pretty surprised we haven't responded yet if it's been easily identifiable rockets shot from the Iranian military in Iranian territory vs US bases. (EDIT - but yes, maybe he's just asleep right now & we'll get the response when he wakes up.)
Last edited by BishopMVP : 01-07-2020 at 10:27 PM. |
01-07-2020, 10:52 PM | #20783 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Where Hip Hop lives
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Quote:
Except you didn't say the politicians are a mess, you said the military is a mess. Which makes me question your sanity (or blind devotion to some Interwebz warz point you're too proud to back down from). The military is not a mess. It's pretty much the most powerful fighting force ever constructed. Not only the best equipped and trained but also with a frightening ability to project its power over thousands of miles. As for wars won, I think it's rather daft way to measure military might, but if you want to go that route, the war portions of Desert Storm, the Iraq War and Afghanistan were all smashing successes, militarily. It was the afterwards occupational part which failed-- largely again because of politicians.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 01-07-2020 at 10:53 PM. |
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01-07-2020, 11:03 PM | #20784 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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You know, if roles were reversed, I think the US would be doing almost everything that Iran currently is. The similarities and predictability of behavior in all this seems obvious to me.
Look no further than the response to the Patriots loss this weekend. We (as in if the US was Iran) would be very ready to cheer against the big bully and every slight they make against us. We're proud enough to defend and demand respect on the global stage, whatever form that takes. Shurg, I guess I'm just looking at all this through a completely different lens and it all seems incredibly overblown.
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01-07-2020, 11:06 PM | #20785 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I will say that an entire generation has been damaged by 20 years of armed conflict. The human body just isn't designed to handle a constant stream of adrenaline. You don't need to look far domestically to see that result.
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01-07-2020, 11:23 PM | #20786 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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welp Trump chickening out of giving a TV address...
guess his advisers found him in a corner writing "I am Jesus" 100 times on the walls. |
01-07-2020, 11:25 PM | #20787 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Operation Desert Storm led to the emergence of Al-Qaeda which ended up killing over 3,000 people on US soil. Not to mention the spark that launched us into two failed military campaigns that have cost countless lives and money. We're 18 years into Afghanistan and practically nothing has changed. It's still a war torn region that the Taliban largely controls. Iraq was an utter disaster that has destabilized the region and put the country in-between Iran and ISIS. We've been there almost 2 decades and it's got us on the cusp of another big war. And if we're defining "military success" by body count or whatever, might as well congratulate Germany on their overwhelming victory in World War 2. The occupation part is a huge element of war. Arguably the most important part. There's more to war than killing people and blowing up buildings in countries that can't fight back. |
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01-07-2020, 11:27 PM | #20788 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Yes Quote:
Yes Quote:
Trump is unpredictable, who knows what he'll do. I hope he will ease off until the next Iranian or Iranian sponsored "strike". I'm afraid he'll play this situation through Nov 2020 to keep his base and maybe gain some. |
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01-07-2020, 11:41 PM | #20789 | |
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Iran's Air Force is a joke. I think it's just some old F-14 Tomcats. If they were dumb enough to challenge us in the air, it'd be target practice for our pilots. The training and technological advantage is overwhelming. But I think Iran knows this. They don't invest in that area. They've put most of their resources toward missile technology. And that technology is pretty good. Variations of the KH-55 I think. They have the capability to do some serious damage in the region if they want. This is why I think their "response" was more about keeping things good domestically. It doesn't appear that they were looking to rack up American casualties or destroy too much of the base. And their response after seems to be "we had to do this so we don't look like pussies at home, let's call it even". If they wanted to escalate, there are far better targets. In full disclosure, I used to work for Raytheon and spent time in the Middle East for them. Not my finest hour. Edit: I didn't do anything exciting for them. Last edited by RainMaker : 01-07-2020 at 11:49 PM. |
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01-08-2020, 01:15 AM | #20790 | |
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Again, you refuse to acknowledge how any of that applies to what you ACTUALLY said. You described the military as a mess. When the military was mobilized to do what it needs to do (go defeat the standing military forces of other countries), it has done quite well. I'm okay if you want to amend your statement to saying that the combination of U.S. policy, incompetent politicans, poor intellirence, and poor decision-making regarding the occupations of defeated territories have led to the overall failure of American efforts in the region. That's an entirely defensible position-- one I would agree with. But that's not really on the military at all. Care to try again?
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-08-2020, 07:13 AM | #20791 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Except for a little thing called AQ (and OBL). Quote:
This I would generally agree with. A lot has changed there but not, arguably, for the better of Iraqis nor US interests. Last edited by Edward64 : 01-08-2020 at 07:44 AM. |
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01-08-2020, 10:31 AM | #20792 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Does he have a cold. He sounds like he is gonna die.
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01-08-2020, 12:04 PM | #20793 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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I know his words and actions often do not match, but if he stays true to his speech, I will be impressed.
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01-08-2020, 12:18 PM | #20794 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Iran is saying the retaliation is over. If true, then I can only imagine this is a big victory for Trump and we'll be hearing about it over and over again for the next few weeks.
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01-08-2020, 12:29 PM | #20795 |
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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I think this will be a net-win for Trump if there is no further escalation.
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01-08-2020, 12:40 PM | #20796 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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If the Iraqi Parliament is pissed off enough at us that they want us to leave, is it really a win? Maybe in the short-short term.
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01-08-2020, 12:52 PM | #20797 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Yeah, net win for Trump if no other direct/military attacks. Big bad guy dead. Iran has 22 less missiles. No US personnel hurt. Arguably as important as OBL (probably a notch down IMO) and a story to tell over and over this year. I'll take a "slap" for our kick in their balls. However, I'm sure there will be other proxy attacks, probably more now and more brazen. Last edited by Edward64 : 01-08-2020 at 12:53 PM. |
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01-08-2020, 12:58 PM | #20798 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Step 1: Talk a bunch of shit about the International Nuclear Treaty.
Step 2: Pull out of International Nuclear Treaty Step 3: Impose Sanctions Step 4: Opposition says "We're done complying" Step 5: Talk more shit. Step 6: Lose International Support Step 7: Watch Protesters storm the Embassy, light fires and burn things. Step 8: Kill a major military leader operating in a foreign country. Step 9: Watch opposition say, "Now we're REALLY done complying" Step 10: Wait for opposition to tell you where and when they will 'retaliate'. Step 11: Watch "retaliation" Step 12: Make a big show of saying "We're good, but we will impose more sanctions" Step 13: Declare "Win"? Or Step 1: Maintain International Treaty Quite the path to victory I guess?
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01-08-2020, 12:59 PM | #20799 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Yeah, this scans as a mutual off-ramping that's concealing the *real* heavy retaliation via proxy actors. This isn't over yet.
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01-08-2020, 01:27 PM | #20800 |
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