Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread

[Swaggs]

If Miami ends up with Frank Martin, I think they end up the winner in all of this Anderson-Mizzou-centric mess.

[Izulde]

Latest news on the UNLV search: Apparently it's Dave Rice's if he wants it. I think this is a combination of A) Rice being a likely cheaper hire than Reggie Theus (In case you haven't notice, we're in a major financial crisis here, with 33 degree programs on the chopping block if Sandoval's proposed cuts go through) and B) the instant pipeline to national powerhouse Bishop Gorman, where his brother is head coach.

I still think Theus is the better overall coach, but I can see where Rice makes a ton of sense.

[MrBug708]

Rice would be a good hire, but you aren't getting Shabazz

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Will be an interesting meeting tonight.

Curator: Board will have 'a lot of questions' about Haith

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

While that source seems legit, I think I'll wait to see what Brooks' take on it is.

[MJ4H]

lol

[Logan]

Will one of the questions raised be "Who keeps making us look like a bunch of jackasses on the internet?"

[Young Drachma]

CBS Sports and less truthy internet sources reporting that Shaka Smart isn't entertaining NC State and will stay at VCU. I don't think that's shocking at all, really.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Will be an interesting meeting tonight.

Curator: Board will have 'a lot of questions' about Haith

OK, let us all assume the meeting goes horribly tonight and the curators do not approve the hire.

Now what? What coach in their right mind decides to speak to Missouri? It's a disjointed mess at this point. If I'm the AD, I have a fairly short response tonight. If you don't trust me to hire coaches, fire me and put in someone who can.

[MJ4H]

I'm sure I know what the response to that would be. Or should be.

[molson]

Originally Posted by TroyF

OK, let us all assume the meeting goes horribly tonight and the curators do not approve the hire.

If by assume you mean hope, I'm right there with ya. I'm not ready for the Missouri drama to end!

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I'm sure I know what the response to that would be. Or should be.

I think I know what it would be too. But if it's me, that's the response I give.

[MJ4H]

Yeah I think you have to say that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If I'm the AD, I have a fairly short response tonight. If you don't trust me to hire coaches, fire me and put in someone who can.

If they override/block him on this, I'd say the negotiations for his termination would already be underway at that point.

[Swaggs]

What exactly would happen if the board of curators does not approve the deal?

Wouldn't Haith be able to sue the everloving bejesus out of them?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If they override/block him on this, I'd say the negotiations for his termination would already be underway at that point.

If he is terminated, my sources are saying that David Stern, Roger Goodell, Jacques Rogge and Sepp Blatter are the leading candidates to be the next AD.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

If he is terminated, my sources are saying that David Stern, Roger Goodell, Jacques Rogge and Sepp Blatter are the leading candidates to be the next AD.

Please.

Those are strictly Plan B in case they're turned down by Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

CBS Sports and less truthy internet sources reporting that Shaka Smart isn't entertaining NC State and will stay at VCU. I don't think that's shocking at all, really.

Have to wonder now if they wouldn't have rather have had Archie Miller, since he played there, now that Shaka has turned them down. Where do they go now? Do they really take one of the Duke assistants? I can't see that happening.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Have to wonder now if they wouldn't have rather have had Archie Miller, since he played there, now that Shaka has turned them down. Where do they go now? Do they really take one of the Duke assistants? I can't see that happening.

Yeah, I hope Yow had some backups on speed dial. The reputation of that job is making it a hard sell. Reiterates that the money isn't everything and I think the coaching field is littered with enough former coaches that young assistants could get that point.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by panerd

Have to admit the Mizzou hire is pretty underwhelming. I am under no delusion that it is anybody's dream job by any stretch of the imagination but at least go with an unproven mid-major coach instead of a ACC retread. (Nobody knew who Gary Pinkel was at the time) I will obviously support the coach and won't act like Smart or Stevens or Calipari or any othr big name was even considering Mizzou. Alden has done well with Pinkel and Anderson so I am willing to give him some leeway here but I have to say again this is pretty underwhelming.

Totall agree Panerd... ugh...

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

What exactly would happen if the board of curators does not approve the deal?

Wouldn't Haith be able to sue the everloving bejesus out of them?

His offer was probably contingent on curator approval.

But it does seem like a pretty backwards way to do things, particularly in today's media cycle. Get your board approval, make your offer. Doing it the other way is a PR disaster.

[Young Drachma]

Shaka Smart has deal to remain at Virginia Commonwealth - ESPN

ESPN making it official.

[DeToxRox]

So it's that time where Rumors about Cal wanting to go back to the NBA are starting. It won't most likely happen but let's say it did. Who would end up at Kentucky? I could see that being the place Brad Stevens ends up since it's still close to Indiana and they would make him perhaps the highest paid coach in the game.

[Butter]

I think Kentucky probably wants Frank Haith, that's why Mizzou had to step up and get him. Genius move by the AD, frankly.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

So it's that time where Rumors about Cal wanting to go back to the NBA are starting. It won't most likely happen but let's say it did. Who would end up at Kentucky? I could see that being the place Brad Stevens ends up since it's still close to Indiana and they would make him perhaps the highest paid coach in the game.

Don't see it. I don't think he wants to be close to Indiana. I think he wants to stay in Indianapolis, period.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Don't see it. I don't think he wants to be close to Indiana. I think he wants to stay in Indianapolis, period.

Yes, and it's possible Crean gets fired after this year but if he has any success at all this year he will be in for a long haul because of the insane talent coming into the program. I think if Kentucky came calling it would be hard to turn down.

[Ksyrup]

FWIW - not that I know anybody or care all that much about basketball - but I'm hearing zero talk in Lexington about Cal leaving, or even rumors of him leaving. I think if there was even the smallest bit of smoke beyond a general feeling that Cal eventually wants to go back to the NBA at some point before he retires, the paranoia would start to set it pretty quickly.

[DeToxRox]

Yeah the rumors are coming from the New York Daily News. Same place the called the Painter to Mizzou thing IIRC. So not much credibility right now.

Source: Calipari Wants Return To NBA

Kentucky coach John Calipari recently left the distinct impression that, although he is recruiting and conducting business as usual, he "wants back in" the NBA, a source told the Daily News.

Calipari's stock has risen in recent seasons among more than a few GMs, and he has close ties to William Wesley, the Creative Artists Agency powerbroker who has an in with several teams.

Kentucky reached the Final Four this season.
Via Mitch Lawrence/New York Daily News

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yes, and it's possible Crean gets fired after this year but if he has any success at all this year he will be in for a long haul because of the insane talent coming into the program. I think if Kentucky came calling it would be hard to turn down.

Would it? Let's assume for a moment that Stevens is a clean coach (or as clean as Division 1 coaches get) - would Kentucky be a place in which he'd feel comfortable? There's a not insignificant chance that Kentucky will be in line for more penalties from stuff that's happened under Calipari, so he might be stepping into a program that's on the verge of probation and penalties.

And let's face it, there's a long history of violations at Kentucky - who's to say that rogue boosters might not undermine Stevens and get the program in trouble again?

One of the appealing things about Indiana is that Knight, for all his faults, ran a clean program, and there's likely far less of a culture of wanting to cheat to get ahead around the Hoosier boosters.

Of course, if Stevens isn't clean, all bets are off.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

So it's that time where Rumors about Cal wanting to go back to the NBA are starting. It won't most likely happen but let's say it did. Who would end up at Kentucky? I could see that being the place Brad Stevens ends up since it's still close to Indiana and they would make him perhaps the highest paid coach in the game.

Sean Miller

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

CBS Sports and less truthy internet sources reporting that Shaka Smart isn't entertaining NC State and will stay at VCU. I don't think that's shocking at all, really.

Interesting. Holding out for other, better openings this season, or rolling the dice that he'll still be a hot commodity next year?

Either way, has to be a letdown for NC State fans.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yes, and it's possible Crean gets fired after this year but if he has any success at all this year he will be in for a long haul because of the insane talent coming into the program. I think if Kentucky came calling it would be hard to turn down.

I think after back to back national championship games and more than a puncher's chance at a national title tonight, there's absolutely no reason to go anywhere else. Even if he's been lucky to do it, the only reason to go would be money. And it's clear from hearing the guy talk, he's not like the mercenaries that have been out there on the coaching scene.

Smart and Stevens are different than a lot of these career assistants who get mid-major jobs in their mid-to-late 30s and then are ready to cash in by their 40s. They're both guys who got their first job in their early 30s. Smart obviously slogged as an assistant at several places, but he did so in his 20s.

Stevens spent a few years at the same school which enabled him to get tapped for the head job because of the relationships and OJT he got being there day in and day out. I think that alters the perspective of guys like them over the no-brainers of most head men who would bolt in a sec understanding the fickleness of the profession and the "fear" that you wouldn't have the same success again.

I think the only reason either would have a reason to leave would be a lack of commitment by the institution to give them the tools to be successful. In Smart's case, if his AD left and was replaced by someone he didn't work well with, you could see him going.

With Stevens, I think Butler has been building up to this point for a while. Heck the current AD is a former men's coach there. So I think the infrastructure is in place.

I think Smart is less likely to hang in Richmond forever, perhaps desiring a new challenge and waiting for the right job. But for Stevens, I just don't see any reason other than money for him to bolt and if he was interested in money, he'd never have gotten into coaching in the first place.

But a decade is a long time, so who knows what'll happen and how the landscape will change down the road for him.

[MrBug708]

I don't think Stevens will ever leave except for a handful of jobs that don't open up every year. (The usuals - UCLA, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, and Indiana)

Smart will likely wait a year and even if he doesn't make the tournament, I doubt his demand will suffer much.

[dawgfan]

DC, that's a good take on Stevens. To expand on that, I think there are a couple additional things to consider:

- On the one hand, success can be fickle, and while the Butler program has proven under multiple coaches that it can consistently win the Horizon League and make the tournament, getting to the NCAA title game is far harder; can the pieces come into place again down the road for Stevens at Butler, or has he already peaked with a special group of kids? For as much success at the school has had recently, they still don't have the cache and resources of big, blue-blood programs out there, to say nothing of the money he could be making elsewhere.

- On the other hand, it's probably sobering for Stevens to look at the career paths of Barry Collier and particularly Todd Lickliter after they left Butler and were unable to replicate their success at their new jobs.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

DC, that's a good take on Stevens. To expand on that, I think there are a couple additional things to consider:

- On the one hand, success can be fickle, and while the Butler program has proven under multiple coaches that it can consistently win the Horizon League and make the tournament, getting to the NCAA title game is far harder; can the pieces come into place again down the road for Stevens at Butler, or has he already peaked with a special group of kids? For as much success at the school has had recently, they still don't have the cache and resources of big, blue-blood programs out there, to say nothing of the money he could be making elsewhere.

- On the other hand, it's probably sobering for Stevens to look at the career paths of Barry Collier and particularly Todd Lickliter after they left Butler and were unable to replicate their success at their new jobs.

Regardless of what happens tonight, Stevens is going to be a legend in Indiana for the rest of his natural life. (and beyond) He could put up back to back 5 win seasons and they'd still give him a million to keep him. He will have a chance at some point to go to a bigger job if he wants to. Once he does that, he has to realize the rest will depend on success.

For security purposes alone, I'd stay at Butler for 5 or 6 more years. Then cash in with a big payday when the time is right for him and his family. (and of course, until then, money isn't going to be a concern)

[Butter]

I think Stevens may be a legend in college basketball for the rest of his life, not just Indiana. Taking a mid-major to the national title game 2 years in a row? Amazing.

If he wins tonight, they will name buildings after him.

[Young Drachma]

Joe Posnanski » Posts The Madness of March «

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I think Kentucky probably wants Frank Haith, that's why Mizzou had to step up and get him. Genius move by the AD, frankly.

Brilliant!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I think Stevens may be a legend in college basketball for the rest of his life, not just Indiana. Taking a mid-major to the national title game 2 years in a row? Amazing.

If he wins tonight, they will name buildings after him.

Agreed. I think Stevens can be coach-for-life at Butler at this point. My question is simply whether things will be able to come together as perfectly for him at Butler again, or if he'll eventually have to move on to a bigger program to have a chance to compete for an NCAA title annually.

[Young Drachma]

The deets on Smart's extension:

The deal is for in excess of five years and will pay Smart $1.2 million in base pay annually, a source said, according to the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I think Stevens may be a legend in college basketball for the rest of his life, not just Indiana. Taking a mid-major to the national title game 2 years in a row? Amazing.

If he wins tonight, they will name buildings after him.

I don't disagree. Getting Butler to two straight title games is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in sports. I was just making the point he has more security at Butler than he'll have anywhere else.

[Izulde]

UNLV AD Jim Livengood and Reggie Theus talked last night. Haven't heard anything else beyond that. The Board of Regents meets Friday, and in addition to a bunch of budget/cuts stuff on the agenda, Livengood's hoping to have a recommendation for them on the men's bball coach hire.

I think most of the fanbase prefers Theus to Dave Rice, but we'd be fine with either one.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Sean Miller

I don't know, Miller makes over $2 mil per season guaranteed for the next 5 seasons - with an automatic option for 2 more years after that (basically a 7-year deal). If he leaves in the next 2-3 season, the buyout is somewhere near $1 million.

It's certainly possible, but given the money and job security Miller has, it would be odd to see him leave after just 2 seasons. But, you never know I guess

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Izulde

UNLV AD Jim Livengood and Reggie Theus talked last night. Haven't heard anything else beyond that. The Board of Regents meets Friday, and in addition to a bunch of budget/cuts stuff on the agenda, Livengood's hoping to have a recommendation for them on the men's bball coach hire.

I think most of the fanbase prefers Theus to Dave Rice, but we'd be fine with either one.

Not sure I'd want Livengood leading the charge to replace a coach. When he was Arizona's AD in 09, he wanted Tim Floyd (even with the red flags) over Sean Miller.

That said, I think Theus would be a good choice.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know, Miller makes over $2 mil per season guaranteed for the next 5 seasons - with an automatic option for 2 more years after that (basically a 7-year deal). If he leaves in the next 2-3 season, the buyout is somewhere near $1 million.

It's certainly possible, but given the money and job security Miller has, it would be odd to see him leave after just 2 seasons. But, you never know I guess

I agree, but he's pretty good friends with Calipari and he'd be the best realistic coach they would go for. Doesnt mean he would leave, but I think Miller leaves for four jobs. Kentucky, UNC, Duke, and Pitt

[MizzouRah]

I've been reading up on our new coach and found this on Haith from someone who at least knows a little bit about him:

KEVIN WHEELER (Host of “Sports Open Line” on KMOX)

Since Haith is leaving my alma mater, The University of Miami, I know a lot about him. I’ve followed his head coaching career closely and have a good bit of perspective on the hire. First things first: just because you hadn’t heard his name mentioned or hadn’t seen him in the NCAA Tournament each year doesn’t mean the man can’t coach.

Haith averaged 18 wins a year at Miami, which doesn’t sound like much but when you consider the horrific history of basketball at The U it makes the achievement look a lot better. He had three 20-win seasons in his 7 years there. The previous three coaches who worked there had three 20-win seasons over 19 years (1985-2004). Think about that for a minute.
This isn’t the case of an up-and-coming coach who took a mid-major team to the tournament a few times with gaudy records playing against weaker competition. Haith took on an historically awful basketball program through the ACC each year. Now, his ACC record is weak. No doubt about that. But again, this was the case of a guy taking his first head coaching job with a bottom-feeder program in one of the top basketball conferences in the country. I have no doubt that Haith would have been “the-next-big-thing” kind of hire had he gone mid-major when he left Texas.

Haith is 45 years old, he’s been an assistant at Penn State, Texas A&M, Wake Forest and Texas and he has a reputation for being a good recruiter. He knows the Big 12 landscape and he’s run a major conference program while averaging 20 percent more wins than those who ran the program the 19 seasons before he arrived. Haith also graduated 21 of the 22 seniors he had at Miami, as Vahe Gregorian pointed out in his story today.
He’s not the sexy name people wanted (which is EXACTLY what Quin Snyder was) and he’ll get ripped by some hoops analysts for sure. Maybe he’ll fall flat on his face in Columbia but he’s earned the right to a fair shot. People shouldn’t be overly excited about Haith but they should be willing to give him a fair chance. Look at his achievements at Miami in the proper context and it will help you understand Mike Alden’s decision a little better.

[Radii]

Wait wait wait.

The previous three coaches who worked there had three 20-win seasons over 19 years (1985-2004).

This is a seriously fancy way to look at things to make Haith look as good as possible. Those 3 20 win seasons came in a period from the 97/98 season to the 01/02 season when Miami made the NCAA Tournament 4 out of 5 years led by Leonard Hamilton and then Perry Clark.

When Haith took over they had fallen back a bit with two bad seasons, but prior to those two bad seasons Miami had 8 winning seasons in a row, 7 postseason appearances in those 8 years including 4 NCAA Tournament Bids and a Sweet 16 appearance. That's not awesome but its not "historically bad" either.


In one of Haith's 20 win seasons he went 4-12 in conference play and had no postseason at all. In the other, 6-10 and an NIT bid. For awhile now the ACC has rightfully taken a TON of crap for being Duke/UNC and 10 also rans, rightfully so. This isn't a super super strong conference that Miami just can't compete in. Its a conference with tons of opportunities for anyone able to step up and Miami has had 1st team all ACC players and as much chance as anyone to step up and has failed miserably. That description above is sugar coating of the highest order.

Maybe he’ll fall flat on his face in Columbia but he’s earned the right to a fair shot.

The point of everything above of course is that IMO he has had a *very* fair shot. He took over a team two years removed from consistent NCAA Tournament appearances in a great location and took them nowhere.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cartman

If he is terminated, my sources are saying that David Stern, Roger Goodell, Jacques Rogge and Sepp Blatter are the leading candidates to be the next AD.

I read that as Simpsons prank call name Jaques Strapp and then some sort of Bladder joke

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Shaka Smart has deal to remain at Virginia Commonwealth - ESPN

ESPN making it official.

Gotta be a mixed bag for wade. Good news for the CAA, probably bad news for any other team in the conference

SI

[sterlingice]

Maybe I just don't have a good view on Haith, but it feels like New Mexico hiring Steve Alford as he was about to get kicked out of Iowa City, only you'd have to replace New Mexico with, say, Missouri or another school that would be comparable- not a school in a smaller conference looking for a "big time coach".

SI