NFL 2022-23 Season Thread

[Solecismic]

Can't say Wild Card week hasn't been entertaining, but the quality of play (and coaching) has not been optimal. Still not a fan of the extra wild card team. The balance is better with two byes and fewer wild cards.

For a three-point game, there sure wasn't a lot of football over the last 20-25 minutes.

[larrymcg421]

Heartbreaking.

[QuikSand]

I am pretty all-in on McDaniel. I think he's a gifted playcaller and designer, and is doing his best in the "leader of men" department.

The stories seeping out, and the parade of gaffes late in this game are hard to defend. Just sounds like amateur hour over there on that sideline... maybe not Nathanial Hackett bad, but... like, in that direction. Gotta do better, and gotta step up and own it, I think.

[Lathum]

Giants very well may lose this game, but Dabol is so much better a coach than the rotating door of nimrods over the last few year. Once they get a little more talent Giants are going to be dangerous.

[JPhillips]

We needed an option in the Giants 2022 thread for Daboll turning Jones into a poor man's Josh Allen. It's nuts how good he looks this year.

[stevew]

Such a shit personal foul Vs Lawrence

[Lathum]

You have got to be kidding me they threw a roughing the passer flag there. Absolutely dreadful call.

[Ksyrup]

I don't care who wins this game but that kind of horseshit roughing call just can't happen. QB still has the ball so he's sacking him as far as he knows, AND as he takes him down he lets go of him. What's he supposed to do, give him a pacifier and rock him to sleep?

[Lathum]

I am seething right now.

[RainMaker]

Horrendous call.

[Lathum]

I truly do not remember the last time I was so angry watching a sporting event

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I truly do not remember the last time I was so angry watching a sporting event

well that changed fast!!

[Carman Bulldog]

I think the Giants win sets up for a significantly better Divisional Round weekend. San Francisco was going to crush Minnesota if the Vikings got through. I think the Giants can at least be competitive against the Eagles and whoever wins between Buc and Cowboys can also compete and at least keep it close against San Francisco.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I am pretty all-in on McDaniel. I think he's a gifted playcaller and designer, and is doing his best in the "leader of men" department.

The stories seeping out, and the parade of gaffes late in this game are hard to defend. Just sounds like amateur hour over there on that sideline... maybe not Nathanial Hackett bad, but... like, in that direction. Gotta do better, and gotta step up and own it, I think.

I am curious what are the stories seeping out. Not saying they aren't any, I am just curious what you have saw.

I am willing to give McDaniel a pass for today. He was dealing with his 3rd string QB on the road during the playoffs. I always think about how McVay would talk to Jared Goff right up until the mic cut off when he was in LA. I have to imagine there was a good bit of hand holding through the headset from McDaniel to Thompson during today's game. It is ridiculous that someone on the staff to assume that it was 1st down as opposed to confirm the correct down and distance and that definitely fall on the head coach. If it has not been an issue all year long as he says, I hope it is a moment of learning for him. There is no doubt McDaniel has to get better as a head coach but that is to be expected when you hire a 39 year old with one year experience as a OC under Kyle Shanahan.

[JPhillips]

I do not feel confident right now.

Especially with all of these injuries.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am curious what are the stories seeping out. Not saying they aren't any, I am just curious what you have saw.

Apparently in his press availability, MM said the team believed they had gotten the 1st down when they lined up for their absurdly structured shotgun run play on 4th and 1. I mean, you cannot get that stuff so wrong, you can't just be flat out wrong about the down and distance.

They had to burn all three of their second half timeouts to stave off delay penalties, and while you can try to point to backup players being confused on the field, it's the coaching staff's job to account for that and get the play selection in a few seconds early. That is a massive failure... I mean, when was the last time we have ever seen a team need to take all three timeouts for the same avoidable offense (play not in on time)?

In a game you end up losing by a FG... you just cannot afford to cede that much of an edge. Those three timeouts could have been very useful late in the game, eh?

[stevew]

Chase is open every time

[JPhillips]

Still not much confidence. They just can't stop the Ravens.

[Jas_lov]

You don't see that everyday.

[Solecismic]

A bit of a game-changer.

[Ksyrup]

Looked like a volleyball play at the net.

[Solecismic]

Good things rarely happen when players forget about ball security and reach out toward the end zone. The play failed. Get two hands on the ball and take the three points.

[Izulde]

There's really no excuse for how badly the Dolphins coaching staff bungled the time management aspects and misread the down and distance.

Am I confident in McDaniel? No. Would I fire him? No. But his leash shortened up some for me. Those are fundamental, basic mistakes

[larrymcg421]

What I hate is that the focus on these (admittedly awful) mistakes seems to be overshadowing that a rookie coach went into Buffalo with a 3rd string QB and lost by 3. The fact there's even a discussion of whether he should get fired or not is absolutely mindboggling to me. Like I feel like I'm living in a different universe.

[JPhillips]

This looks like last year's line.

[Ksyrup]

Why would Baltimore willingly run 35 seconds off right there?

And now a hold. What a debacle.

[RainMaker]

Some really bad clock management today.

[Lathum]

This is maybe the worst clock management I’ve ever seen.

[stevew]

Oh geez that was close.

[Swaggs]

Not sure how I would feel as a Ravens fan with this game. On the one hand, the Ravens have no business making this such a close game, but on the other, the risky goal line play (that is likely going to be the difference in the game) and horrendous clock management shouldn’t be made by veteran coaches like Harbaugh.

[RainMaker]

I think that timeout carries over to next season.

[Ksyrup]

They played from the 2 minute warning until about 25 seconds like they were tied and at the 15 yard line needing only a FG to win.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What I hate is that the focus on these (admittedly awful) mistakes seems to be overshadowing that a rookie coach went into Buffalo with a 3rd string QB and lost by 3. The fact there's even a discussion of whether he should get fired or not is absolutely mindboggling to me. Like I feel like I'm living in a different universe.

They scored 31 points with 3.3 yards per offensive play and only +1 on turnovers. It shouldn't have been a close game. I'm not an advocate of firing, either, but if you get that miracle of a close game, you have to coach it properly.

Meanwhile, not sure how Baltimore lost that one, other than that one huge miscue. Still, the Ravens should have found a way back in.

It's been an awful weekend so far - not caring much either way about winners and losers, just really bad football other than the 49ers and the Giants. I don't expect tomorrow's game to deliver - not liking the patchy Bucs offensive line against Dallas - and Brady has not held up as well to pressure the second half of the season like he did his first 50 years in the league.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They played from the 2 minute warning until about 25 seconds like they were tied and at the 15 yard line needing only a FG to win.

I honestly did a double take thinking it was the third quarter.

[Solecismic]

So, 34 seconds left and a first down at the 17 and two time outs. I think the first full rest was fine. The second was about ten seconds too long. You don't want to give Burrow too wide an opening.

The Ravens probably win this one without the fumble - and Cincinnati has been solid until tonight.

[JPhillips]

I expect the next decade is going to see a lot of Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Lawrence in the last four standing. It's going to be really tough to advance in the AFC without a premium QB.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Can't say Wild Card week hasn't been entertaining, but the quality of play (and coaching) has not been optimal. Still not a fan of the extra wild card team. The balance is better with two byes and fewer wild cards.

For a three-point game, there sure wasn't a lot of football over the last 20-25 minutes.

I agree definitely product quality is down. The game has become a result ultimately of the speed and ferocity of the talent. I am not sure how do it but the injuries has become an issue. Top playoffs teams having to play journey QBs is not what I would pay to watch.

[QuikSand]

Ravens twitter is a mess. They want Greg Roman to be ritually executed at the airport. And they seemingly hate Lamar for being hurt. Not uniformly, but a lot of loud people feel he let the team down… and they therefore shouldn’t sign him. During his time, Ravens win 71% with Lamar, and 35% without him.

I get the anger, but it’s somewhat irrational I think.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What I hate is that the focus on these (admittedly awful) mistakes seems to be overshadowing that a rookie coach went into Buffalo with a 3rd string QB and lost by 3. The fact there's even a discussion of whether he should get fired or not is absolutely mindboggling to me. Like I feel like I'm living in a different universe.

I’m TeamMM and at the same time pissed. I want him to succeed, but also feel somehow short changed… that he can feel soooo smart but lead a team that sometimes looks so dumb.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I get the anger, but it’s somewhat irrational I think.

Ironically, this sentence perfectly captures my feelings about the discussion around Mike McDaniel.

[bhlloy]

I think the statement “football Twitter is a mess” would have covered it. I wonder how many of those criticizing Lamar would show up to work tomorrow if there was a reasonable chance they’d suffer an injury or illness that could end or seriously curtail their career.

[Lathum]

What I saw on Twitter wasn’t that they were mad he didn’t play, but that he didn’t travel with the team.

[Lathum]

Dola-I don’t get the whole “quality of play” argument. I want to be entertained and was. Of the 5 games we had two halves that were uncompetitive and one led to an amazing comeback. Other than second half of the niners game all the games were close and the outcomes in doubt. If you couldn’t enjoy those hanes maybe football isn’t your game.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola-I don’t get the whole “quality of play” argument. I want to be entertained and was. Of the 5 games we had two halves that were uncompetitive and one led to an amazing comeback. Other than second half of the niners game all the games were close and the outcomes in doubt. If you couldn’t enjoy those hanes maybe football isn’t your game.

Maybe the haters bet against the Jaguars

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola-I don’t get the whole “quality of play” argument. I want to be entertained and was.

In this vein, they should do a parallel set of games to the playoffs to determine the #1 pick*, IMO.

Wild Card Weekend: worst record plays at fourth worst record; 2nd worst record plays at 3rd worst record.

Divisional Weekend: Winner of game 1 plays winner of game 2 (better record always hosts) - game winner gets #1 pick, game loser gets #2 pick; loser of game 1 plays loser of game 2 - game winner gets #3 pick, game loser gets #4 pick.

*or the top few picks

[Lathum]

I'm down with that. Colts-Texans was a meaningless game in the last week of the season and was wildly entertaining.

[Thomkal]

Thanks NFL and ESPN for letting the game with two teams I care about the least be on TV tonight so I don't have to watch it

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

but a lot of loud people feel he let the team down… and they therefore shouldn’t sign him.

They need to be careful what they wish for. In the NFC South this season, Marcus Mariota, Andy Dalton, and Sam Darnold were fighting for second place.

Fans that want to get rid of MVP-caliber QBs to end up in a situation like that need to take a deep breath.

Or, as you put it

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I get the anger, but it’s somewhat irrational I think.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola-I don’t get the whole “quality of play” argument. I want to be entertained and was. Of the 5 games we had two halves that were uncompetitive and one led to an amazing comeback. Other than second half of the niners game all the games were close and the outcomes in doubt. If you couldn’t enjoy those hanes maybe football isn’t your game.

The heart of the argument is that you want to buy into the illusion that playoffs determine a worthy champion.

Also, when watching as much as I have, and not having an NFL team to root for, I've always tended to go with what's on television.

The NFL prefers to put its better products on television, combined with player popularity and brand popularity. They wouldn't nationally televise, for example 2-13-1 Houston against 4-11-1 Indianapolis - a rematch of one of the two ties this season - a game that was much more likely to go to the wire, over the game most of us got (8-8 New England versus 12-3 Buffalo), which was far less likely to provide a competitive finish.

What I look forward to, at this point, are the moments that make the game. Maybe that's the first quarter, when everything clicks and a good team builds its lead. Maybe that's the ending, as it was with most of the WC action.

But I prefer seeing teams doing things to win games rather than winning because their opponents did things to lose them. At this point, I don't necessarily like seeing an 80-yard touchdown because someone didn't know his assignment. Instead, what grabbed me about the Giants/Vikings game was seeing quarterbacks understand where the pressure was coming from and what would be open. Efficiency. Seeing a team that had struggled lately make defensive choices (we're not letting that magic Jefferson guy get the ball in space or deep, mainly) that kept them competitive.

It was frustrating seeing the Dolphins put themselves in position for a major upset (in part due to extraordinary luck, but there they were) and look completely lost simply getting a play call into a game - going an entire game at a production rate that I would expect 7-10 points from, if that, but somehow still giving us the thrilling finish, only very much not.

So, is it playoff expansion or something else? It's not like the 7s are magically much worse than the 6s. I'd hesitate to make any grand claims about what is and isn't a person's game, but I think we all look for different things when we watch sporting events. I want to see well-executed, professional football in the playoffs. I saw enough of that to be entertained, even though I wanted more.

[Solecismic]

I also wanted to delve more into the "worthy champion" moniker. Generally, when we communicate about individual games, we use a point spread. As in "the Cowboys are 3-point favorites to beat Tampa Bay tonight."

That translates to a 60 percent chance of winning the game (overcoming the built-in 55 percent chance for home teams). Most playoff games see 0-7 point spreads. Seven points gets you to about 72 percent.

What that means is that weaker teams beat stronger teams a significant percentage of the time. A lot of games turn on one play - a fumble at the wrong time (Tyler, what were you thinking?), a missed tackle, a play-call where the defense shifted perfectly.

So granting more teams playoff spots means a higher likelihood that the best teams don't even reach the Super Bowl. But shorter playoffs leaves a lot of potential revenue on the table, and generally, fans like playoffs. The other sports handle this by having playoff series. Best-of-seven, that 60% edge becomes a lot higher. That is not practical in football.

I don't know what the ideal playoff size is for determining an NFL champion, but the long recovery time and brain-heavy individual game prep places it in opposition to whatever practical system we could come up with. No solution could possibly be ideal (it's even worse in college football, with the shorter regular season and schedule issues and sheer size of the team pool). I just think going from 12/32 to 14/32 invitations placed it significantly more out of balance.