2017 College Football Season thread

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So it was all about the Iowa loss and people are still complaining? Wonder what would’ve happened if TCU won? They get in, right? They would’ve “won” the Big12.

Or what if Ohio State played Mercer instead of Oklahoma?

LarryMcG, yes, the Patriots were clearly the best team that season. The Giants won the final game between them and the Patriots.

Yes, I agree with this. I'm still glad we played a game to determine a champion. It was a hell of a game. Imagine if we had missed out on it. This goes back to my earlier post of not caring who the "best" teams are. The teams that win the most important games deserve to be champions, even if there is another "better" team out there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So it was all about the Iowa loss and people are still complaining? Wonder what would’ve happened if TCU won? They get in, right? They would’ve “won” the Big12.

LarryMcG, yes, the Patriots were clearly the best team that season. The Giants won the final game between them and the Patriots.

You raise an interesting hypothetical there. Presumably, honestly, if TCU had beaten OU then Bama & Ohio State might have moved up to 3 & 4 ... but that'd be problematic due to the OU win over tOSU. So would that, perhaps, have only changed the seeding order & we'd have the same four teams regardless?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why not? Does anyone think that if Auburn beat Georgia in the SEC Championship they wouldn't have gotten in?

I submit the argument that Auburn is more deserving AS IS than Alabama, even with the loss in the SEC CG.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I submit the argument that Auburn is more deserving AS IS than Alabama, even with the loss in the SEC CG.

Don't disagree, FWIW. Alabama's wins stink, which is why I hated the "unequivocally" better comment. If they were, they would have had a better win than OSU did. Same reason I don't think USC deserved to be considered as that third team for the 4th spot.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Logan

Don't disagree, FWIW. Alabama's wins stink, which is why I hated the "unequivocally" better comment. If they were, they would have had a better win than OSU did. Same reason I don't think USC deserved to be considered as that third team for the 4th spot.

“Unequivocally” not because of better win(s) but not having a terrible loss.

LarryMcG, I can go along with that. The entertainment factor is an important consideration. But how deep shall they dig the hole when there shouldn’t be a hole in the first place?

The AP used to have their final poll after the regular season. The bowl games, esp the awesome Rose Bowl games, were entertaining spectacles with a great parade and pageantry that served as bragging rights and fun for the fans there and those watching on New Year’s Day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting thing (to me), that popped out from an easier to read (to me) formatting.

Here's the elements (or reasonable facsimle*) of the BCS, isolated for this year. College Football Ranking Summary
*for some reason, Massey doesn't includeAnderson & Hester but it was easy enough to find & count here

The humans were pretty consistent, the top 6 teams were all the same.
But the difference is how the computers varied on Oklahoma

Remember, the BCS kicked out the high & low computer rankings, then averaged the remaining 4.

Clemson 1,2,1,2,3,1 ... 98/100 possible points
Oklahoma 3,5,7,3,4,5 ... 89/100
Georgia 2,3,2,1,2,2, ... 96/100
Bama ... 6,1,5,4,6,7 ... 83/100
Ohio State ... 4,4,6,5,5,6 ... 84/100
Wisconsin ... 5,7,4,6,8,4 ... 82/100

edit to add: Worth a reminder here, maybe, that the BCS formula weighted 1/3rd to each of the two human polls and the final 1/3rd to the computer average. In other words, humans counted 2x what the computers counted.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Will anyone really be satisfied until there's a participation trophy for every damned team in the country? Let's just go to 130 "conferences" and declare everybody a conference champion I guess. Do away with the regular season & just have one giant ass tournament with all these "conference champions", maybe then people will be happier.

This is ridiculous.
Nobody here is asking for a participation trophy for every team in the country. What some do want is a level playing field for every team in the country though and to have a shot at the grand prize that the sport gives out even when your name is not Alabama, Ohio St. Florida St, Notre Dame, Clemson etc. Because a team is not involved in the Power 5 from the start, no matter what they do on the field and the entire season, means squat. Explain to me how that is fair?

[bronconick]

Taggert to FSU from Oregon

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by hollmt

This is ridiculous.
Nobody here is asking for a participation trophy for every team in the country. What some do want is a level playing field for every team in the country though and to have a shot at the grand prize that the sport gives out even when your name is not Alabama, Ohio St. Florida St, Notre Dame, Clemson etc. Because a team is not involved in the Power 5 from the start, no matter what they do on the field and the entire season, means squat. Explain to me how that is fair?

As an aside, I find it humorous and glorious that you include Clemson in such a list.

Before the last 5 years we have fought constantly just to be recognized as existing. Funny what recency bias and a little success will do for ya.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by hollmt

Nobody here is asking for a participation trophy for every team in the country.

Sure does seem close.

Because a team is not involved in the Power 5 from the start, no matter what they do on the field and the entire season, means squat. Explain to me how that is fair?

Because, bottom line, those outside the P5 aren't playing the same level of competition week in & week out. What part of they.don't.really.matter in the big picture is so hard to understand? They're novelty acts, the comedy spot at Wrestlemania, the cartoon before the movie. The chips & salsa before the filet mignon.

[Logan]

Norvell signed an extension to stay at Memphis. Was that Arkansas related or did Tenn come knocking?

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

As an aside, I find it humorous and glorious that you include Clemson in such a list.

Before the last 5 years we have fought constantly just to be recognized as existing. Funny what recency bias and a little success will do for ya.

Shit, I didn't mean to add Clemson...what was I thinking?

[tarcone]

Clemson is a neo-cheat school.

They have to be added.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sure does seem close.



Because, bottom line, those outside the P5 aren't playing the same level of competition week in & week out. What part of they.don't.really.matter in the big picture is so hard to understand? They're novelty acts, the comedy spot at Wrestlemania, the cartoon before the movie. The chips & salsa before the filet mignon.

But it is only the same level of competition if you or someone else deems that level of competition good enough, right? You rate/judge Power 5 conferences. So when you feel a P5 conference is not that good, then what? Should another conference take their place when you think that conference is good enough to be considered?

Someone like Moonie, thinks the AAC with UCF in it actually WAS better than the BIG and PAC, correct? That does not mean he is wrong, it's his belief. You believe the AAC is inferior and therefore do not matter.

So I will ask you. What. Part. Of. Bias. Do. You. Not. Understand?

[tarcone]

Jeez, Jon, those inside the P5 arent playing at the same level.

How can Northwestern EVER hope to compete with tOSU?

The academic standards alone make that impossible.

[Logan]

In reference to that argument, I do think the difference in AAC vs B1G West (with poor crossovers) and SEC East is small enough where we can reasonably debate how much worse UCF's record would look with those kinds of schedules.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Because, bottom line, those outside the P5 aren't playing the same level of competition week in & week out. What part of they.don't.really.matter in the big picture is so hard to understand? They're novelty acts, the comedy spot at Wrestlemania, the cartoon before the movie. The chips & salsa before the filet mignon.

Sounds like Alabama didn't play much competition either this year but got their participation trophy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Norvell signed an extension to stay at Memphis. Was that Arkansas related or did Tenn come knocking?

Maybe we know what that plane that landed in Memphis was doing?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by hollmt

What. Part. Of. Bias. Do. You. Not. Understand?

At no point have I denied the existence of some bias.

Thing is, it's bias toward visibly better teams. And that's not remotely problematic.

[CU Tiger]

I dont think Norvell will be leaving Memphis anytime soon.

There are rumblings of "issues" there.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At no point have I denied the existence of some bias.

Thing is, it's bias toward visibly better teams. And that's not remotely problematic.

Meh...you have a bit of a blinder there though, to be fair.

I mean in 2014 Alabama was visibly better than Ohio State until they played them.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Logan

Norvell signed an extension to stay at Memphis. Was that Arkansas related or did Tenn come knocking?

AR was supposedly looking at Norvell but the AR board is saying SMU Morris has been hired.

[JPhillips]

Crazy stat: Mark Richt is the longest tenured FBS coach in FL

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by hollmt

Someone like Moonie, thinks the AAC with UCF in it actually WAS better than the BIG and PAC, correct? That does not mean he is wrong, it's his belief. You believe the AAC is inferior and therefore do not matter.

Yeah, he is wrong.

If I said the SE Minnesota high school football conference was better than the SEC Id be wrong as well as stupid.

Some opinions have value while some opinions are only worth an eye roll.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I dont think Norvell will be leaving Memphis anytime soon.

There are rumblings of "issues" there.

Gambling

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah, he is wrong.

If I said the SE Minnesota high school football conference was better than the SEC Id be wrong as well as stupid.

Some opinions have value while some opinions are only worth an eye roll.

Good catch. I clearly used the wrong words. I meant that it was his opinion and he is entitled to it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Taggert to FSU from Oregon

Would be hilarious if Oregon gets Chip.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Would be hilarious if Oregon gets Chip.

Why?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Why?

Come on Bug, you know he is baiting you. Leave the bitter man to his own devices.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Maybe we know what that plane that landed in Memphis was doing?

Sexton represents Morris.

All the SWC old money won out on this hire as a fact that has been brought up numerous times is we've gotten 15 kids from Texas over the past 5 years. Jerry probably had something to do with it also. His grandkid is the starting QB while Chandler Morris is the backup @ Highland Park.

Shocked we haven't applied for the Big 12 this offseason to complete the "mission" of the old money.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Come on Bug, you know he is baiting you. Leave the bitter man to his own devices.

I wanted him to say he's scared of Chip in Los Angeles

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Sexton represents Morris.

All the SWC old money won out on this hire as a fact that has been brought up numerous times is we've gotten 15 kids from Texas over the past 5 years. Jerry probably had something to do with it also. His grandkid is the starting QB while Chandler Morris is the backup @ Highland Park.

Shocked we haven't applied for the Big 12 this offseason to complete the "mission" of the old money.

Looks like Morris is our guy. The sports press seem to like this guy so I'm all for it.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Sexton represents Morris.

All the SWC old money won out on this hire as a fact that has been brought up numerous times is we've gotten 15 kids from Texas over the past 5 years. Jerry probably had something to do with it also. His grandkid is the starting QB while Chandler Morris is the backup @ Highland Park.

Shocked we haven't applied for the Big 12 this offseason to complete the "mission" of the old money.

Arkansas new Ad was the AD at Houston who hired Herman.
He interviewed Morris for that job and supposedly wanted to offer Morris over Herman but by the time they got there Morris was too far down the road with SMU.

I will say I think Arkansas HAS to recruit Texas well to compete in the SEC.

[Logan]

So why are the Ole Miss guys like Patterson who aren't seniors expected to be eligible immediately if they transfer?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

So why are the Ole Miss guys like Patterson who aren't seniors expected to be eligible immediately if they transfer?

As far as I know, they aren't / won't be.

There is, however, some talk by another underclassman (I forget which one off hand) about retaining an attorney to appeal for immediate eligibility on the basis of his claim that he was misled by both the coach & the AD about the severity of punishment that was forthcoming. Patterson & others could join that movement.

Honestly, coming off the injury, and having Freeze waste his redshirt while trying to salvage the 2016 season, a year to sit wouldn't be the worst thing for Patterson (though it might make him less attractive to some teams).

[Suicane75]

I understand why he's doing it, but I enjoy SMU being good, and this seems like it'll, at the very least, slow down their momentum.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tgray649

On a neutral field who wins between Notre Dame-LSU?

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Notre Dame by 30.

This should be interesting. LSU is currently a 3 point favorite.

[jbergey22]

Some very interesting matchups this year.

Ohio State 7 over USC(Gotta roll with USC here)
Penn State 2 over Washington(Taking Wash if I can get 3)
Memphis 3 1/2 over Iowa State
Wisconsin 6 1/2 over Miami
Auburn 9 1/2 over Central Florida
Georgia 2 over Oklahoma (will be taking Georgia in this one)
Alabama 2 1/2 over Clemson
TCU 2 1/2 over Stanford (lean TCU)
Oklahoma State 6 over Virginia Tech

If the people that set the lines set the playoffs I get this impression their seedings would look like
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Georgia

5. Oklahoma
6. Penn St
7. Auburn
8. Wisconsin
9. Washington
10. USC

[bob]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This should be interesting. LSU is currently a 3 point favorite.

LSU was getting better as the season went on. ND was looking worse, especially on offense and in particular the QB. Lock up LSU.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Arkansas new Ad was the AD at Houston who hired Herman.
He interviewed Morris for that job and supposedly wanted to offer Morris over Herman but by the time they got there Morris was too far down the road with SMU.

I will say I think Arkansas HAS to recruit Texas well to compete in the SEC.

And before Houston was the AD at Coastal Carolina, so good things in store for Arkansas I think

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And before Houston was the AD at Coastal Carolina, so good things in store for Arkansas I think

My expectations aren't unreasonably high ...

I don't need top 10 but happy with top 11-20, top half of SEC-W, exciting offense, and a nice bowl game. Petrino got us there, Bielema wasn't able to.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My expectations aren't unreasonably high ...

I don't need top 10 but happy with top 11-20, top half of SEC-W, exciting offense, and a nice bowl game. Petrino got us there, Bielema wasn't able to.

Morris' first year in Clemson was my last year really closely around the program. (in the Athletic department weekly if not daily) I got to know Chad a bit there. In fact, not to name drop but, he and I exchanged texts last night.

Here is my view of what you get in Chad Morris.
- A Great evaluator and eye for QB talent. He personally headed up Clemson's QB recruiting during his time here. He offered 4 QBs. Deshaun Watson, Chad Kelly, Kelly Bryant, and Lamar Jackson. He was also the first offer for all 4. I'll let that record speak for itself.
- A tireless worker. He identified Watson as his prototypical QB target. Taking advantage of a since closed recruiting loophole, he went and visited everyone of Watson's JV basketball games. He wasnt allowed to speak with Watson, he just wanted to be seen there. Every single home game that didnt conflict with a football team function. It was all legal (then) because Watson wasnt being recruited as a basketball recruit. Just one example...but definitely a first in last out guy.
- Clean. He will exploit a loophole as noted above, but I'll be shocked if he ever draws NCAA ire.
- An offensive wunderkid. His success in scripted drives was over 70% resulting in TDs in his entire Clemson tenure. He is very creative. One of the most creative route tree designers Ive ever seen. Probably the best Ive ever personally seen.
- A great teacher of the game. In the calm of the classroom I am not sure I have ever seen a better teacher of football. Just phenomenal at explaining complex concepts and route trees in simple ways. Prior to his arrival there was sentiment in the football offices that Tajh Boyd would never contribute - primarily because he couldn't grasp the playbook. Morris had no problems teaching Boyd his system. I remember once him using a call of duty weapon analogy to explain progression preference.
- He has a fantastic feel as a play caller.Just a gut instinct about setting up a play and catching a team off balance.
- Fiery, focused and has a vision. Comfortable in his own skin. Knows who he is and who he wants to be.

Now those are a few of his positives. Let me give you the things that will have you pulling your hair out in due time.

Much is made of his Red Bull addiction. He legit has ADHD, and I subject that he self medicates with a ton of caffeine. Every off season he was touring the country and learning new offensive wrinkles. So much so that I think he lost a bit of who he was his last year at Clemson. I think he has learned from this but he will jump from trend to trend too often.

He is so smart and intellectual he overthinks the playbook. To illustrate this point, Clemson thought they had another OC signed when Morris left following the 14 season. In fact that OC had agreed to come and then backed out. Current Co-OCs Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott were promoted rather abruptly. They had each been groomed, primarily Scott -but Morris stumped for Elliot on the way out saying promote him or I'm making him my OC. Neither Scott nor Elliott had ever called plays before and here they sat less than a month away from having to play Oklahoma. Digesting the playbook appeared daunting and Watson was out with an injury. After 24 hours of trying to whittle it down to what back up Cole Stoudt cold perform well, Scott and Elliott made the unconventional decision 'We can't learn and memorize all 650 pages. It impossible to know where and what like he did. Lets keep the first 100 pages (400 plays !!!) and just set the rest aside and work from there..
There is a ton of bloat there and at times it can bog down his players mentally.

I mentioned above Morris is a master of the passing game. He will preach the importance of a power running game, but time and again when things went bad he would abandon the run all too quickly. Even if it was having success.

He will get too cute at times. Clemson fans all point back to this example, but there are numerous ones. In the midst of SC's unparalleled 5 game win streak against Clemson, in game 4, SC was clearly in Clemson's head. There was unrest in the coach's office and the tension was palpable. Opening drive Clemson goes 70 yards on 8 plays. SC had no answers and were on their heels. 1st and 10 from the 24ish....Morris dials up a double reverse WR pass. Sammy Watkins throws a pick and the team never recovers. He will do this and you will throw your hat. He will also occasionally do it and hit a bomb.

For as good of a teacher as he is in the classroom he is a bit too emotional in game. It takes a strong minded player to thrive with Morris. He will berate a mistake when a player needs a pick me up. Not every time mind you, but he shattered the aforementioned Cole Stoudt's confidence.

Finally, he will shop his name Every. Single. Year. If there is a job opening, Morris will be talked about as a candidate. I am hoping he grows out of this and Arkansas is certainly destination worthy. But history has shown he has never turned down an interview.

[MrBug708]

Speaking of shopping names, Jimmy Sexton is the rep for 11 of the SEC coaches now. God bless you guys

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Logan

So why are the Ole Miss guys like Patterson who aren't seniors expected to be eligible immediately if they transfer?

They can request a waiver and the NCAA likes to do whatever they want.

[Edward64]

Thanks CU for the in-depth notes. Looking forward to his offense!

[Eaglesfan27]

QB Coach Tyson Helton leaves USC to become OC at Tennessee. Very happy for him and USC as I think they had 1 too many chefs in the kitchen at OC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

QB Coach Tyson Helton leaves USC to become OC at Tennessee. Very happy for him and USC as I think they had 1 too many chefs in the kitchen at OC.

This comes on the heels of Tee Martin reportedly being uninterested in the OC job at UT (since he was apparently never interviewed for the HC spot). Interesting, to say the least.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This comes on the heels of Tee Martin reportedly being uninterested in the OC job at UT (since he was apparently never interviewed for the HC spot). Interesting, to say the least.

Yep. I wonder if Tee gave Tyson a glowing recommendation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yep. I wonder if Tee gave Tyson a glowing recommendation.

I wondered if it was more like "Uh, Tee ... this is awkward but um ... we weren't calling to talk about you ... we just wondered what you thought about Helton"

[JonInMiddleGA]

My wife (the UT alum) & I were talking about Martin a little earlier tonight. Basically that he was never really completely forgiven in Big Orange Country for winning a title when Manning couldn't.