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#2101 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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This whole absurd business of "no way to stop nutcases with guns coming to schools to shoot up kids, so we'll do THIS instead" smacks of these stories where someplace is overrun with rats so they decide to bring in a bunch of bobcats or something to eat the rats... and then bobcats take over and start eating babies and such.
It's like a dumb horror film, you can see the terrible decision taking shape, everyone agrees it's terrible, and... there they go. |
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#2102 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Quote:
My daughter’s school is set up like that. It’s right next to the police station also. But if somebody wanted to get in, all they have to do is shoot out some windows or something. I’m pretty confident there would be a police response within 1 to 2 minutes, but given the Dayton thing, 20 kids could die in that amount of time. |
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#2103 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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I mean, the reality is that if you have such a gun and have the will and no qualms about being caught or killed, you can shoot a lot of people. It's not that difficult. Schools just happen to be popular targets because that's where most of these shooters spent a lot of time.
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#2104 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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This is not getting any better for local law enforcement in Uvalde
Border Patrol Tactical Team Was Ordered to Hold Back Before Confronting the Gunman |
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#2105 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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If they really thought no one was living in the classroom(which is dubious given the sounds of gunfire) what was the plan? We're they going to starve him out? It would seem like a believe that there was only the shooter would provide you greater impulse to storm the room.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#2106 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
They're lying. There were countless calls from kids in the school to 911 begging for help. A witness says a child was killed when the police called out asking if anyone needed help. We know that one child died later at the hospital which means they were alive in the classroom. Cops are blaming "cyber gaming" for the shooting. |
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#2107 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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#2108 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Even my hardcore gun-loving, cop apologist former BIL on Facebook is saying the police really screwed the pooch on this one. There really isn't a satisfying defense for their actions here. Reports are saying the even tried to stop Border Patrol from going in. I mean, WTF?
Last edited by GrantDawg : 05-27-2022 at 01:54 PM. |
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#2109 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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If only someone could have told them kids were alive in the classroom.
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#2110 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
"The bottom line is that Officers Jose Gonzalez and Carlos Flores did not follow protocol, and Vice Principal Isabella Garcia was supposed to check the doors while this murderer was outside for 12 minutes, and she failed at her duty as well. That's why these kids are dead." (And oh YES, they will say their names pretty much every time, assuming they are Latino-sounding.)
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#2111 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Sounds about right, Ben.
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#2112 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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So I finally had a chance to talk to my son in law enforcement this morning (He is in Italy and ahead 8 hours, so it took a while to catch up)
Coincidentally he also conducted an active shooter drill just last week where he is at and the protocol he gave me pretty much matches what the Texas Director of Public Safety is saying now. In that situation, you don't wait to establish perimeter and access points, you identify where the threat is, then go in and neutralize that threat....immediately. The obvious thing here is how woefully unprepared for this situation this police force was. In addition to their own incompetence, they made the Border Patrol tactical unit stand down, and local police had authority in that scenario, unless the tactical team was local department SWAT, in which case they can decide to go in or not. (Also curious local SWAT was not on scene when the Border Patrol team got there, though they may not have had an official SWAT team.) He assumed, which is also along my lines of thinking, that they have likely never practiced this situation. It is a small town 15 K population, with little violent crime, an aging, complacent police force and commanders woefully lacking in tactical training/experience. It was a perfect recipe for disaster and they will rightfully (hopefully) be held to high accountability for this, as there is never an excuse to botch a situation of this magnitude so badly. More importantly, since our politicians are, as usual, going to do jack shit about this, is I hope departments across the country take note of this and allocate resources to preparing for and drilling this scenario. Because, we know this will not be the last time. Last edited by BYU 14 : 05-27-2022 at 04:33 PM. |
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#2113 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I watched the local cop give a news brief about how they didn't have such and such complete so didn't go in....i'm like WTF....just go all bruce willis and take him out? You got a vest? GO!
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#2114 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
It is a small town but they did have a SWAT team with all the fancy equipment and gear. They also had extensive training in active shooters, including at schools. In fact, they had toured that exact school just 2 months ago during training. Their budget was the largest percent of the municipal budget. The school district had also doubled their security spending over the past 4 years. This included full-time armed resource officers who no one can figure out where they were during the shooting (the Police said they didn't have that information). Here is the SWAT team cosplaying with their weapons. ![]() Quote:
Resources were allocated and preparations were made. |
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#2115 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Well, what you add only makes it more egregious then, though to be fair there is a difference in practical tactical training and play acting scenarios. Who knows what these guys were doing, because it certainly didn't lead to the desired mitigation here.
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#2116 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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They would have been in there in a heartbeat if it was a 'black' man or an 'illegal'. No fucking questions asked. I'm with Cube on this one.
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He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam |
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#2117 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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At every turn, this gets even worse.
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#2118 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
Not just the cops, the victims. Trump made sure to read off their names. You know the reason. And then he danced at the end of his speech.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#2119 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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I think you mean "official Republican."
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#2120 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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This is the border patrol agent that stopped the shooter. He was part of the group that broke orders from the local police and broke off from evacuating kids to take the shooter out.
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#2121 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Really tough read... I guess it's just going to reinforce pre-existing beliefs, though. If you're for gun control, you see this as a damning indictment of the "good guys with guns" argument. And if you're against gun control, I suppose you'll find this to be evidence that we need more GGWG, more training for GGWG, fewer doors, or other such things... that Uvalde was a unique failure, not a real indictment of our overall approach to guns and school security. |
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#2122 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Yeah, that leads me to my latest gripe with this... with so much focus on the cops not going in to get the bad guy, we might end up with a collective sense that that was the real takeaway from Uvalde... that police might fail in the critical moment, despite weapons and training.
No, the real takeaway was that on his 18th birthday, a walking red flag of a kid was able to buy two unbelievably overpowered weapons of war and literally thousands of rounds of ammunition without anyone knowing about it, immediately making his poorly formed, idle pre-18 plans to do something awful suddenly very realistic and obtainable. If in this country that kid had to go through extensive training, background checking, and so forth to obtain a simple handgun or rifle, of the sort one might want to help defend one's home or to hunt for sport... there is simply no chance that he "finds a way" to commit the atrocity he did, on the scale he did. Another obscene talking point from the bought and paid for 2A defenders. Last edited by QuikSand : 05-28-2022 at 07:54 AM. |
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#2123 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
Perfectly stated.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#2124 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#2125 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
Uvalde CISD police leadership needs to go, Natsec expert says | Fox News (I mean, he does, but here we go...)
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#2126 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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#2127 |
n00b
Join Date: Mar 2022
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It's... rather disheartening that we have a thread for school shootings ongoing for 7 years...
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#2128 | |||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Good read.
Two Professors Found What Creates a Mass Shooter. Will Politicians Pay Attention? - POLITICO Quote:
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#2129 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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Ban guns. Create a militia system backed by the federal government that gives people that want to be trained long guns.
They can hunt or just do practice. Im done
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
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#2130 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
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#2131 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Preface: I'm Canadian so I don't fully know what your laws are or how they vary federally or by state. Maybe my idea is already in place and does nothing or something. Anyways...
I feel like a good first step might be some kind of graduated licensing system similar to driving. When you turn 18 you can start using a gun with a bunch of restrictions: type of gun, ammo, locations, times, etc. Then as you get older and your record stays clean and maybe you pass a couple of firearms courses you slowly gain additional access. Maybe it take 5-10 years without any infractions before you are given carte blanche. It doesn't prevent citizens from arming and defending themselves, creating militias, or otherwise being allowed to bear arms, it just puts up some reasonable barriers to going from 0 to 6000 rounds of ammo and a machine gun on your 18th birthday.
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"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime." |
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#2132 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
nope. Violate ma second amendment rights!! Murica!!! |
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#2133 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
This makes complete sense. This is the current situation: This 13-year-old tried to buy porn, lottery tickets, and a gun. Guess which one he got. - Vox |
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#2134 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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there's a story making the rounds today from last night - a jackass with an AR-15 started shooting at a group of people at an outdoor party in Charleston WV but was killed by an armed partygoer, before he could kill anyone
look for this to make a super helpful talking point in the days ahead for the forces of "see there's not a real problem with too many nutjobs with assault weapons" i'm glad nobody was hurt, of course, but am preemptively saddened by how effective this will prove to be Last edited by QuikSand : 05-29-2022 at 11:14 AM. |
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#2135 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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If I ignored one of our clearly-written SOPs at work in the manner that these cops ignored their clearly-written training, I'd likely be fired and could also be fined and potentially face criminal prosecution. Quote:
Really, we're asking for nothing more arduous than what kids have to go through to get a driving license. Even less arduous than what we ask teenage girls to go through to obtain an abortion in, say, Texas. |
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#2136 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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Quote:
My pro gun friends tell me this isn't possible and always list off the stuff they have to do in order to legally buy a gun. |
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#2137 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
It likely varies by state but the loophole is alive and in use in Texas and many other states. The non-licensed gun dealers aren't required to do any kind of background checks or even ask any questions. They may ask for an id but they may not. I went to one with my FiL and his brother a few years back. It was depressing. |
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#2138 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
If they go to a licensed gun dealer in their private shop, sure. My last one, consisted of me waiting roughly 20 minutes after filling out the paperwork and showing ID. Answering an ad for a private gun sale, I was asked on the phone, "you don't have a criminal record right?" Guy then said depending on when I could meet him, he would meet me or send his son, no clue how old his kid was. Didn't get it because he wasn't going to come down much cheaper than a brand new one. I have never been to a gun show, but from what I have heard, the video showing the kid getting one is pretty much on point. So, in two of the three 'legal' gun buying options the opportunity exists to get a loophole weapon. |
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#2139 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
My assumption is that the general public isn't up in arms about sites like this because all of the other methods are so easy that no high-profile killer has gone this route, and therefore it's not all that well-known that you can do this. But it certainly appears to be the easiest way to avoid any sort of checks whatsoever.
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 05-29-2022 at 03:26 PM. |
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#2140 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Sorry for your loss, that's just awful.
The thing that shocked me the most about the gun show was the people selling guns out of the back of their trucks in the parking lot. You didn't even need to pay the 5 or 10 dollars to go inside, just walk around the parking lot and pretty much everything was available. |
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#2141 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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#2142 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Among the things they appear to have lied about - blaming a teacher for leaving a door propped open.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#2143 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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I thought that the law enforcement position was "if you've got nothing to hide, then why aren't you talking?"
Of course, it is pretty clear that they have a hell of a lot to hide, so at least they aren't being inconsistent. |
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#2144 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Just a little sidebar: is it getting much play that the school police chief had just been elected to the local city council there? And that now his swearing in ceremony has been at least delayed?
(I saw that in an AP article about the tensions in the town, just wondered if that was widely known or a largely unmentioned)
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#2145 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
I had seen that before in an article, (his election) but it was mentioned almost as an afterthought |
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#2146 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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STAY PISSED OFF
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#2147 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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I did see this. Seems like they felt it would be in poor taste right after the shooting. Although I'm guessing he might want to disappear for a while and might not take the position after all. Seems like they've all lawyered up.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/30/us/uv...ned/index.html |
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#2148 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Guess he did get sworn in.
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#2149 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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my foggy eyes and foggy brain read the title of this thread as "Yes! Another school shooting."
I really think some people feel that way |
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#2150 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
this breaks my heart. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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