Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[SirFozzie]

I don't say this much.

Match of the Year right there. I just wish they had mentioned that Michaels was pulling moves out of Flair's bag of tricks, the man that Michaels retired.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty good line, or at least one that both made me laugh & think about a possible TEW challenge someday, attributed to a myspace Q&A with Shane "Hurricane" Helms.

Helms was asked if he could ever see himself wrestling for a promotion besides WWE. Helms wrote: "I’m sure that when/if my WWE career ends and I’m still able to perform that I would seek employment elsewhere just as anyone would if they left their current job. I might even start my own promotion. I’d call it FEW, Future Endeavors Wrestling! I’m sure to get heat for that remark!"

[JonInMiddleGA]

I just finished reading the spoilers from tonight's taping of this week's Impact.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I just finished reading the spoilers from tonight's taping of this week's Impact.

Haha, yep. No steps forward, ten steps back.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It does help explain (along with the absence of one of his two favorites in Christian) why my son has watched less than a quarter of their hours of TV in the past month. And if he doesn't watch then I usually don't either.

On a totally different note, I didn't even know the Royal Rumble was last night until I saw a reference to it in some TNA notes. First time ever I don't recall seeing a single commercial for the PPV on Dish.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It does help explain (along with the absence of one of his two favorites in Christian) why my son has watched less than a quarter of their hours of TV in the past month. And if he doesn't watch then I usually don't either.

On a totally different note, I didn't even know the Royal Rumble was last night until I saw a reference to it in some TNA notes. First time ever I don't recall seeing a single commercial for the PPV on Dish.

RR was a very good show. Lots of good stuff. Loved the actual RR match. A lot of innovative spots from Mysterio, he for sure stole the show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

A lot of innovative spots from Mysterio, he for sure stole the show.

I know it's a personal shortcoming of mine but I don't think I ever see Rey without thinking of the famous (infamous?) "lawn dart" spot he did with Paul Wight back in the WCW days. He's one of a very short (no pun intended) list of guys that I simply cannot suspend disbelief while watching, something that usually doesn't bother me at all with guys his size or even smaller. I just can't get past that moment in his career.

[Neon_Chaos]

Great Royal Rumble. One of the better cards of the past 6-10 months.

[Noop]

Apparently Chris Jericho got into a fight with some fans after a house show yesterday. There is footage of the incident on youtube, however during the course of the melee he hit a girl. I know it's not "right" to hit a girl but reading the accounts of what happen and watching the video; she deserved it.

[Flasch186]

Just watched it and he was in the right IMO, he turned his back on the crowd and got in his car when a person he couldnt see jumped into the open car door as he was getting in to 'attack' him and he swung back. Looked like self defense to me. Later the video gets a bit wild and choppy and I cant make out what is going on but it looked like Security did an awful job, and Chris defended himself.

[Neon_Chaos]

The freaking idiot rushed at Jericho.

Security was horrible.

[molson]

I can't believe the WWE runs shows where the wrestlers have to go through crowds to get to their cars. Is this typical? I can't believe this doesn't happen all the time, if so.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by molson

I can't believe the WWE runs shows where the wrestlers have to go through crowds to get to their cars. Is this typical? I can't believe this doesn't happen all the time, if so.

He got into his car in the parking lot with WWE security blocking everyone off. The videos are from when he got out of his car in the middle of the street and the crowd surrounded him from reports.

[Mota]

I can't believe that there's enough marks who are mad at Jericho because he's a "bad guy". Hello, it's fake. And these are all adults.

[Mota]

Watching a bit of TNA Wrestling lately? It's horrible. The Main Event Mafia has to be the worst thing to ever happen to that league. The problem is that they overloaded one team with all the main event players, and they have nothing to fight against. Samoa Joe is good, but who else is on the Frontline? AJ Styles? Sorry, I don't buy into him as a main eventer, seeing that TNA spent the last year making him look like a fool trying to pick up Karen Angle while Kurt manipulated him constantly. Who else ... Eric Young? Jay Lethal? They can put on good matches, but who believes that Eric Young would have any chance 1v1 against Kurt Angle, Sting, or Booker T? Sorry, ain't happening.

I thought the setup for MEM was really interesting, but as soon as I realized they had no plans beyond that it all comes across as pathetic. It's almost unwatchable now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Speaking of The Phenomenal One ... if the expected card runs as planned, this will be the first TNA monthly PPV ever without a match including A.J. Styles.

But hey, we get Booker vs Shane Sewell.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

It's almost unwatchable now.

Tigers reliever Joel Zumaya disagrees, he's sitting at ringside watching.

But on that point I agree with you. I don't think we've watched more than two hours of Impact in the past month, it's lost out to 360 time. But my son insisted on buying tonight's PPV regardless, wanting to see Morgan & Abyss do carnage and I think he wants to see Sting turned back (although I'm expecting a tweener Sting circa Crow Sting personally). But the enthusiasm isn't there for either of us and it's easy to see why.

You really couldn't name anyone we identify more with TNA nor any reasons that we watched any bigger than Joe, AJ, Daniels, and then Cage. And none of the four are on the card officially tonight (although i expect we'll see at last Joe before the night is through)

Looking back at the history of the event, there's actually quite a few stinkers that are part of the Against All Odds history. NASCAR's Jeff Hammond in a tag match '05, Christy Hemme vs Big Fat Oily Guy '07, Hoyt w/Eckstein vs Torborg w/Pierzynski '07, EY & James Storm for the World Beer Drinking Championship '08.

Some other random notes:
-- This is the first Against All Odds since 2005 not to have Christian Cage in the main event (Cage v Angle 08 & 07, Cage v Jarrett '06).
-- Steiner vs Petey & ODB vs Kong are rematches from last year's PPV

Whoa. While I'm typing this, some really bizarre audio/video disconnect during Angle's promo, making it look like an old martial arts movie.

[DeToxRox]

Okay .. The Steiner Screwdriver is awesome but Petey was made to look like such a chump and Joe is now apparently Joemaga?

[Flasch186]

im actually glad Im not watching. Nash and the ego's mustve really screwed over that company....reminds me of another company that that lineup killed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Joe is now apparently Joemaga?

He's simply going back to his Samoan roots

Yeah, that's part of the new character, they used the face paint somewhere (house show? taping? internet feature?) a week or so back I think I remember reading, telegraphing what was coming.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

im actually glad Im not watching. Nash and the ego's mustve really screwed over that company....reminds me of another company that that lineup killed.

I really don't think you can blame Nash for this mess. Nor even Russo.

Most of this misbegotten mess rests on Jarrett & his inability to have the slightest clue how to book, and by all accounts virtually every major decision is coming from him now, down to complaints of micromanagement. Bischoff's comments this week weren't far off the mark IMO, basically that him & Hogan had no interest in working for a company that had absolutely no clue what it was doing and no one in authority who had ever been part of anything successful beyond being on the roster while other people were being successful.

Although simply surviving this long is worth a certain amount of credit & a certain degree of "success", there's a good bit of in what Russo said. Even with all the aging stars on the roster, there's really very few of them (other than Nash) who have ever been anywhere near the book or any big picture decision making.

[Noop]

Booker T versus that ref was a waste. He should have fought A.J. Styles for the Legends title.

[Noop]

Soon as I say that AJ comes running out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Noop's timing was indeed impeccable

So next month (assuming they don't rush things) we get AJ & Booker, Steiner & Joe (in lieu of Joe & Nash pending Kev's health), and I guess Angle vs Sting.

Maybe, just maybe, ohplease MAYBE, that could be the beginning of the end of the whole Mafia angle which definitively jumped the shark when they did the NWO takes over the show angle earlier this month.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, for the record here, is everybody getting the martial arts movie audio synch problem or is that just a Dish Network thing?
The unintentional comedy effect is starting to get a little old but so far is really a highlight of the evening.

[Toddzilla]

1 <3 Creed and Lethal

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's still fun for me to see Creed on PPV after watching him at the local indy. Seemed like a good kid for any of the few conversations I had with him.

Also gotta give a shout out to Daffney Unger getting work as "Gov Palin", very nice (and quite normal) young lady who we had a chance to work with on a project for a business client a few years ago, happy to see her back in the business if that's what she wants to be doing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

{scratches head}

I'm trying to figure out what that main event accomplished, other than taking up about 20 minutes of everybody's life.

edit to add: And why did Foley go to the ring to "present" the belt when the champ was standing there holding it already?

[Ryche]

Loved Unger when she was with WCW, hopefully she's going to be with TNA on a regular basis now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Petey Williams and Lance Hoyt both released by TNA after this week's tapings, while rumors say Stevie Richards is about to be signed along with another oversized ex-WWF greenhorn trainee from Wales.

Meanwhile Christian debuts on ECW, apparently to feud with Jack Swagger who responded the interruption by pointing out that Cage left for years because he couldn't cut it & now he's back. Nice way to put over the new signee Vince, I just hope Cage enjoys the money because I doubt he's going to like the booking.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Petey Williams and Lance Hoyt both released by TNA after this week's tapings, while rumors say Stevie Richards is about to be signed along with another oversized ex-WWF greenhorn trainee from Wales.

Meanwhile Christian debuts on ECW, apparently to feud with Jack Swagger who responded the interruption by pointing out that Cage left for years because he couldn't cut it & now he's back. Nice way to put over the new signee Vince, I just hope Cage enjoys the money because I doubt he's going to like the booking.

Honestly I don't think staying in TNA would have been much better for Christian Cage. He was always treated as the WWE guy who was held back and made it in TNA, instead of the WWE star who chose TNA instead.

So that pretty much left him out of the MEM thing they have going in TNA since he wasn't a 'legend', thus leaving him to be destroyed with the rest of the other side.

As for Petey, I thought there was some potential with the Steiner storyline when it first started, but man did they do a hatchet job to his career.

I can't believe the way they have effectively neutered all of their 'homegrown' stars. Several of those guys came out of ROH looking like the sky was the limit for them, so much for that. At this point the only reason anyone would choose to go to TNA would be for a pay check, because all the washed up stars have a stranglehold on any opportunity.

[Flasch186]

sounds eerily reminiscent of WCW.

[Deattribution]

Yeah it's a lot like WCW, which is sad. If TNA were really compelling and headed in the right direction it would be great for wrestling as a whole. WWE really needs a kick in the ass by another promotion badly. I don't think TNA would even have to come close to beating them in the ratings, but just be good enough that someone up north says 'hey let's do that too'.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As frustrating as it is for me as a fan, or someone who wants to be a fan, honesty compels me to admit that I'm not sure how much bigger TNA could get regardless of what they did.

I mean, their ratings hover in the 1.0 to 1.2 range consistently for several months now and that's their high water mark. They weren't sniffing that when the product was more to my liking and the occasional segments that do feature the people I'd prefer to see in the spotlight - Cage, Joe, AJ - don't fare any better than the ones I consider wastes of space like Steiner & Booker (at this point) and often end up lower than average, even before the completion of their burial with the whole MEM angle.

Actually, about the only thing that overperforms are matches with the Knockouts, and Kong in particular. Heck, even Hemme tagging with Styles was an above average segment in terms of audience, giving the appearance for all the world that she actually carried him to a more watched match. Now I know too well about the limitations of ratings but the results are pretty doggoned consistent, too much so IMO to be just an anamoly.

So I'm not sure they'd actually be any better off if I had the book, it'd probably be just a different audience at best and a smaller audience at worst.

[Flasch186]

and in contrast Kelly Kelly is an abomination to wrestling.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As frustrating as it is for me as a fan, or someone who wants to be a fan, honesty compels me to admit that I'm not sure how much bigger TNA could get regardless of what they did.

I mean, their ratings hover in the 1.0 to 1.2 range consistently for several months now and that's their high water mark. They weren't sniffing that when the product was more to my liking and the occasional segments that do feature the people I'd prefer to see in the spotlight - Cage, Joe, AJ - don't fare any better than the ones I consider wastes of space like Steiner & Booker (at this point) and often end up lower than average, even before the completion of their burial with the whole MEM angle.

Actually, about the only thing that overperforms are matches with the Knockouts, and Kong in particular. Heck, even Hemme tagging with Styles was an above average segment in terms of audience, giving the appearance for all the world that she actually carried him to a more watched match. Now I know too well about the limitations of ratings but the results are pretty doggoned consistent, too much so IMO to be just an anamoly.

So I'm not sure they'd actually be any better off if I had the book, it'd probably be just a different audience at best and a smaller audience at worst.

The catch-22 is TNA needs guys like Angle, but it's guys from the past they let get away that is hurting them. Perfect example is Punk. He would flourish in TNA; he's a great worker, great talker and has that charisma that naturally gets him over.

Unfortunatley TNA pushes Angle more then WWE pushes Triple H. He hardly ever loses, and when he does, he still is made to look better then whoever beat them.

TNA could probably crack 2's if they had Paul Heyman because firstly, Heyman's name attracts viewers, and secondly, lots of people want to watch TNA, but have no reason to. Heyman is capable of getting people to care about Joe, AJ, MCMG, LAX, etc.

They get into the 2's, and get more money from Advertisers, then they can lure an Edge away, and make it a place that's an alternative for the top guys, not just guys like Christian (had no advancement) or Angle (burnt bridges).

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As frustrating as it is for me as a fan, or someone who wants to be a fan, honesty compels me to admit that I'm not sure how much bigger TNA could get regardless of what they did.

I mean, their ratings hover in the 1.0 to 1.2 range consistently for several months now and that's their high water mark. They weren't sniffing that when the product was more to my liking and the occasional segments that do feature the people I'd prefer to see in the spotlight - Cage, Joe, AJ - don't fare any better than the ones I consider wastes of space like Steiner & Booker (at this point) and often end up lower than average, even before the completion of their burial with the whole MEM angle.

Actually, about the only thing that overperforms are matches with the Knockouts, and Kong in particular. Heck, even Hemme tagging with Styles was an above average segment in terms of audience, giving the appearance for all the world that she actually carried him to a more watched match. Now I know too well about the limitations of ratings but the results are pretty doggoned consistent, too much so IMO to be just an anamoly.

So I'm not sure they'd actually be any better off if I had the book, it'd probably be just a different audience at best and a smaller audience at worst.

I don't think TNA's product has ever been great, or even consistently good. The best they were was when they were doing weekly PPVs, and even then there was a lot of crap. There is at least .5 to .8 of a rating out there for them to capture, that is evident by the fact every time Vince McMahon is announced WWE sees about that in a bump. It's a portion of the audience that holds out hope for meaningful change and direction. TNA is stale, even when they bring in a new 'star' they become stale in a matter of weeks ( Foley) that's why they are stuck in the low 1's.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

and in contrast Kelly Kelly is an abomination to wrestling.

Kelly Kelly is beautiful.

[Flasch186]

she's beautiful alright but they need to keep her on the ring apron and not in the ring.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

she's beautiful alright but they need to keep her on the ring apron and not in the ring.

hxxp://www.webespacios.net/images2008/fam/kelly-kelly.jpg

She is a patriot and a damn fine wrestler sir.

[Flasch186]

ok, youre right im wrong

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Noop

She is ... a damn fine wrestler sir.

And I'm the Queen of Sheba.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

ok, youre right im wrong

I am sure you know I was not being serious, although she is most certainly a knockout. If you want female wrestling TNA has a good crop of wrestlers outside of Beth Phoenix and maybe Gale Kim who does the WWE have other then a bunch of pretty faces?

[Flasch186]

Ive been more and more impressed by Melina, candace Michelle sometimes does a decent job, Victoria used to be pretty decent but thats about it.

[Ryche]

WWE's women do tend to get better over time. Kelly Kelly is already vastly better than she was when she started. Maria has moved from awful to fairly decent (definitely not on TV enough now). Natalya, Katie Lea and even Jillian are all pretty decent if they'd get a chance.

Trish is a great example of a diva going from awful to prety damn good. That's the big difference between TNA and WWE's women wrestlers. WWE starts out with looks and builds the skills while most of TNA's women have wrestled for awhile before they're hired. The difference is very evident in the quality.

[DeToxRox]

No Way Out was an amazing show. Shook up the road to WM a great deal. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.

[SirFozzie]

it did shake things up, but they're going to have to explain what the fuck is with Edge winning the RAW world title. Way to make the brand draft look even more fucking ridiculous.

[Noop]

I thought Edge winning was wonderful and provided a nice change of pace. I can see Orton versus Triple H (Triple H joins Raw to help Step versus Orton) and on the Smackdown side you might have Edge versus Rey Mysterio and another person.

[Mota]

My biggest problem with this is that Wrestlemania is supposed to be about the biggest feuds, and the culmination of an entire "season". While the new title matches may have star power, they only have 1 month to build up the matches.

To me, Wrestlemania is the perfect place to finish off a great feud like Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho or something that's been going on for a long time. Even HBK vs. JBL.

Speaking of that, I think that quietly HBK is the #1 player in the WWE this year. He's the one putting on the stories that people tune into the WWE to watch.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Mota

Speaking of that, I think that quietly HBK is the #1 player in the WWE this year. He's the one putting on the stories that people tune into the WWE to watch.

Chris Jericho and Edge along with Shawn Michaels are three of the best in the company right now.

I think Rey Mysterio deserves a huge push after his performance last night and at the Rumble. He will be a great addition to ECW and could really carrying that brand atleast for a year when he is moved over.

That being said although the road to Wrestlemania has been clouded I am intrugied by what WWE Creative(Vince) can come up with to fill in the blanks.