WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[The Jackal]

I ask only because I'm still thinking about the fact that CF claims he doesn't know he was exorcised. I still don't know what to think about that but further information from targets of exorcisms (even if they were last game and you were a wolf) might be helpful.

[The Jackal]

Still think DZ is telling the truth but just covering bases and all that good stuff. I really want to believe Bug is telling the truth, should be interesting to see what happens tonight with the actions.

[The Jackal]

And not just because he scanned me, but because he really seemed to be indicating he was the seer in a pro-village way, not in a sketchy wolf way. But I understand and see why people are looking at him quizically.

[MrBug708]

The targets of my scans don't know they were scanned...would it work that way for exorcisms

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm confused

You said it was smart not to be on the leader because of a brutal kill possibility, which a villager would say. You proceeded onto someone that had no votes so it wouldn't happen, or so one would assume from your vote. Then when you thought a run was happening on him, despite him being a ways off from the leader you inexplicably went onto the leader, possibly to protect a wolf, we can see though if CR is a wolf, you'd be the next person I lynch. I think it is possible forgot you made the post it was smart to be off the leader and when your throwaway vote started to get some momentum you went onto a known villager to save a wolf. It is possible you were hoping to be the only one on CR and later when we lynch him you have a good vote to your name to your name while others went for a villager.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And not just because he scanned me, but because he really seemed to be indicating he was the seer in a pro-village way, not in a sketchy wolf way. But I understand and see why people are looking at him quizically.

Yes, but if I recall, and I could be wrong, but didn't he start making such comments when he was starting to draw heat, setting up a seer reveal. Seer is the easiest of all roles to fake for a wolf. Maybe there is no conflict of the real seer because they got unlucky night one and converted when scanning. If Bug is an original wolf maybe they said he should set up as the seer once they went down a wolf day one. All speculation of course, but who knows.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The targets of my scans don't know they were scanned...would it work that way for exorcisms

I am confident saying that it is common for scanees to not know they have been scanned. For a mechanism like an exorcism, I cannot say. I don't want to harp on this too much though and drive doubt into people's minds, like I said before I'm just covering bases. Little things are important in this game. I think it's most likely people that are the targets of exorcisms that aren't possessed won't receive a message - but if we have information that contradicts that, it would be important.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Yes, but if I recall, and I could be wrong, but didn't he start making such comments when he was starting to draw heat, setting up a seer reveal. Seer is the easiest of all roles to fake for a wolf. Maybe there is no conflict of the real seer because they got unlucky night one and converted when scanning. If Bug is an original wolf maybe they said he should set up as the seer once they went down a wolf day one. All speculation of course, but who knows.

If he is not the seer and the seer is elsewhere, I think we would have found out by now, at the latest I imagine tomorrow because that would be four scans and at least one wolf outed in bug. If he was the original seer and converted, that would be one hell of a lucky convert, and we cannot count out conversion in any aspect of this game. I think we sit tight and see what happens - he will be required to announce his scan target tomorrow, if he is the real seer the wolves will want him dead asap, because we'll find out eventually.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I am confident saying that it is common for scanees to not know they have been scanned. For a mechanism like an exorcism, I cannot say. I don't want to harp on this too much though and drive doubt into people's minds, like I said before I'm just covering bases. Little things are important in this game. I think it's most likely people that are the targets of exorcisms that aren't possessed won't receive a message - but if we have information that contradicts that, it would be important.

I can't see them knowing unless they are either exorcised in the thread or holding an item that prevented the exorcism and lost it. If they did get such a PM they are not going to mention it now.

[The Jackal]

Alright time for me to get some sleep, will see what happens for tomorrow.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If he is not the seer and the seer is elsewhere, I think we would have found out by now, at the latest I imagine tomorrow because that would be four scans and at least one wolf outed in bug. If he was the original seer and converted, that would be one hell of a lucky convert, and we cannot count out conversion in any aspect of this game. I think we sit tight and see what happens - he will be required to announce his scan target tomorrow, if he is the real seer the wolves will want him dead asap, because we'll find out eventually.

The problem is as a wolf he can always announce a new scan and say they are a villager, even if they are a wolf. The only way we will catch it is if we lynch one of his "good" guys and it is really a wolf. He is still protected though because the rules clearly state that some Red Death don't scan as evil or they were later converted. It is the perfect crime so long as the original seer is now a wolf.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

You said it was smart not to be on the leader because of a brutal kill possibility, which a villager would say. You proceeded onto someone that had no votes so it wouldn't happen, or so one would assume from your vote. Then when you thought a run was happening on him, despite him being a ways off from the leader you inexplicably went onto the leader, possibly to protect a wolf, we can see though if CR is a wolf, you'd be the next person I lynch. I think it is possible forgot you made the post it was smart to be off the leader and when your throwaway vote started to get some momentum you went onto a known villager to save a wolf. It is possible you were hoping to be the only one on CR and later when we lynch him you have a good vote to your name to your name while others went for a villager.

If I was a wolf, I certainly wouldn't have picked Chief because he would have fallen onto immediate suspicion (If he is a wolf as you say). If I was corrupted, I wouldn't know who is good or who is bad. I did switch, which was probably a mistake, but one I'll live with, but at that point, Chief wasn't in huge danger of being lynched.

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The problem is as a wolf he can always announce a new scan and say they are a villager, even if they are a wolf. The only way we will catch it is if we lynch one of his "good" guys and it is really a wolf. He is still protected though because the rules clearly state that some Red Death don't scan as evil or they were later converted. It is the perfect crime so long as the original seer is now a wolf.

True. Of course, there is that whole other messy situation if you decide to lynch me and I turn out to be exactly who I say I am?

A final thought. If Chief was a bad guy, you seemed more concerned about continuing after me than it actually being surprised at Chief being a wolf. I find that interesting, unless you are trying to avoid the bodyguard protection that I hope is coming tonight and getting me killed in a more creative manner.

[MrBug708]

For corrupted
-------------------

The Red Death is so powerful, that when someone is corrupted, they will gain a new role and powers and lose their old ones.
-------------------
I will obviously no longer be the Seer

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If I was a wolf, I certainly wouldn't have picked Chief because he would have fallen onto immediate suspicion (If he is a wolf as you say). If I was corrupted, I wouldn't know who is good or who is bad. I did switch, which was probably a mistake, but one I'll live with, but at that point, Chief wasn't in huge danger of being lynched.

I don't see why you wouldn't pick chief, if I was a wolf as was chief he makes a perfect candidate when it looks as if he is going to be completely safe and there is a villager on a runaway vote.

As for one not knowing who is good or bad if they are corrupted do we really know that. I mean if they are corrupted and they have PM privileges they'd know who all the wolves are.

As for Chief not being in huge danger, that is just why it is strange you switched. There was no need to unless you were getting scared CR was going to get lynched.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

True. Of course, there is that whole other messy situation if you decide to lynch me and I turn out to be exactly who I say I am?

A final thought. If Chief was a bad guy, you seemed more concerned about continuing after me than it actually being surprised at Chief being a wolf. I find that interesting, unless you are trying to avoid the bodyguard protection that I hope is coming tonight and getting me killed in a more creative manner.

Unfortunately there it is impossible to prove who you say you are without a NK or a lynching and I can't bring myself to lynching you without more info. If CR gets lynched tomorrow and he is indeed a wolf, then I'd strongly consider lynching you, but not until then or some other major event happens.

I'm coming after you because I don't think your a villager, but don't worry my vote will be on CR tomorrow and if he is bad, it will be on you the next night. As for trying to avoid BG protection on you that is tough, but honestly, I wouldn't BG you. Your scans are not 100% successful and if we have our BG protect you they can kill DZ who if he is who he says he is needs to be killed by the wolves for them to win.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

For corrupted
-------------------

The Red Death is so powerful, that when someone is corrupted, they will gain a new role and powers and lose their old ones.
-------------------
I will obviously no longer be the Seer

You don't need to be the seer. All that needs to happen is the wolves now the seer was corrupted, they can fake the seer after that since they know who is good and bad.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I'm coming after you because I don't think your a villager, but don't worry my vote will be on CR tomorrow and if he is bad, it will be on you the next night. As for trying to avoid BG protection on you that is tough, but honestly, I wouldn't BG you. Your scans are not 100% successful and if we have our BG protect you they can kill DZ who if he is who he says he is needs to be killed by the wolves for them to win.

Do you have information that says my scans have been incorrect? Now would be the time to say so

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

You don't need to be the seer. All that needs to happen is the wolves now the seer was corrupted, they can fake the seer after that since they know who is good and bad.

How would the wolves know I was corrupted? I'd have a completely new role

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Do you have information that says my scans have been incorrect? Now would be the time to say so

No one here other than You, Abe and the wolves know if your scans have been incorrect, but it is possible since the rules state " However, it has been shown in the past that many Servants do not show up as evil, so this is not a guaranteed way." Not to mention there may be a charm as well.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How would the wolves know I was corrupted? I'd have a completely new role

The wolves could know because of PM privileges, all that needs to happen is another wolf gets added to the PM chain and then it becomes known. As for a new role, you would a wolf role.

[Commo_Soldier]

What does everyone else think about stuff Bug and I have been discussing?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

No one here other than You, Abe and the wolves know if your scans have been incorrect, but it is possible since the rules state " However, it has been shown in the past that many Servants do not show up as evil, so this is not a guaranteed way." Not to mention there may be a charm as well.

If it is as you say it is, and I knew my scans were incorrect, wouldn't I be 100% sure of my scans, which would be against what the rules state?

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The wolves could know because of PM privileges, all that needs to happen is another wolf gets added to the PM chain and then it becomes known. As for a new role, you would a wolf role.

How do you know if I would be added to the wolf PM in a corruption? Is there a mechanic that I am unaware of being mentioned?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

What does everyone else think about stuff Bug and I have been discussing?

*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I so want to quote back with Peter Gabriel's "Big Time" video but Abe would yell at me again

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If it is as you say it is, and I knew my scans were incorrect, wouldn't I be 100% sure of my scans, which would be against what the rules state?



How do you know if I would be added to the wolf PM in a corruption? Is there a mechanic that I am unaware of being mentioned?

I was more meaning you wouldn't know if the scan was incorrect in the fact of if they are a wolf when they come villager, but no one other than you knows if you are telling us the truth.

I have no idea if it is possible, but the rules don't imply it is not possible. If you become a member of the Red Death and your role permits why wouldn't you have the ability if you can't be brought back as a villager.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........*clap*..........

Not sure if that is your support of the questioning, a mocking of the *tap* *tap* *tap* or your happy two villagers are bickering.

[CrimsonFox]

Was just a "slow clap" really So you're talking about whether you think Bug is really the seer or whether he WAS the seer and was corrupted by something and he is saying that ...um....no I don't really know where you guys stand on this.

[CrimsonFox]

I have no idea whether Bug's scans are correct but I believed him when he said he was the seer and that those were the scans he made.

If those scans were good scans then great. COULD he have been converted during any of the four days and therefore make some of those scans invalid? Well that sound possible sure but it is knowledge I have no access to.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Was just a "slow clap" really So you're talking about whether you think Bug is really the seer or whether he WAS the seer and was corrupted by something and he is saying that ...um....no I don't really know where you guys stand on this.

I stand that he could be the seer still and has just in my eyes done some strange things.

Could have been the seer to start, but been converted, which allows him to still fake the seer as he knows he was it and now could know who the wolves and villagers are.

Could be an original wolf and they converted or the original seer converted. Once he started getting heat day two it became known then, if not before with the convert, that he could lay hints about being the seer in the event he became a big target he could then reveal. With NTN killed day one and then Zinto yesterday, with Bug as a runaway it could have meant all three original wolves were killed off in 4 days.

He is trying to state why he is still just the seer.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I stand that he could be the seer still and has just in my eyes done some strange things.

Could have been the seer to start, but been converted, which allows him to still fake the seer as he knows he was it and now could know who the wolves and villagers are.

Could be an original wolf and they converted or the original seer converted. Once he started getting heat day two it became known then, if not before with the convert, that he could lay hints about being the seer in the event he became a big target he could then reveal. With NTN killed day one and then Zinto yesterday, with Bug as a runaway it could have meant all three original wolves were killed off in 4 days.

He is trying to state why he is still just the seer.

oh I see what you're saying.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I have no idea whether Bug's scans are correct but I believed him when he said he was the seer and that those were the scans he made.

If those scans were good scans then great. COULD he have been converted during any of the four days and therefore make some of those scans invalid? Well that sound possible sure but it is knowledge I have no access to.

That is the thing, we have to believe him because there is no way of telling without him dying. We also can't just kill the seer, if he is, without something more then speculation. I don't get some of his scans though. As for his scans they aren't guaranteed and his position in the game, while good for us, I see it as not as important as the exorcist and minister.

[Commo_Soldier]

Dola, I'm doing my best to make up for Danny's lost posts today. Although I really do think it is possible Bug is a wolf.

[MrBug708]

It would have been counter-productive to admit that I was the Seer on day 2 and ask for advice on who to scan

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It would have been counter-productive to admit that I was the Seer on day 2 and ask for advice on who to scan

Yes, it would have been if you were/still are the real seer. I'm not completely sold you are not still the seer, but just really cautious you are not.

[Chief Rum]

I really doubt Bug was a Day One convert. He does stuff that tends to get votes, as he has already shown this game. I don't see the wolves choosing to use their first (and probably most certain) conversion on Bug on Day One.

And frankly with his decisions looking bad outwardly,or at least questionable, I would have to wonder why the wolves would choose Bug as a convert candidate at all. They want players without suspicion, or even better, with trust.

[Abe Sargent]

Time check

[Abe Sargent]

That is time folkses

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I really doubt Bug was a Day One convert. He does stuff that tends to get votes, as he has already shown this game. I don't see the wolves choosing to use their first (and probably most certain) conversion on Bug on Day One.

And frankly with his decisions looking bad outwardly,or at least questionable, I would have to wonder why the wolves would choose Bug as a convert candidate at all. They want players without suspicion, or even better, with trust.

I can see that, but that is if Bug was the convert. He could be an original wolf and their convert happened to be the seer or even the seer, but just got unlucky with what we now know is a dice roll of unknown sides.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I can see that, but that is if Bug was the convert. He could be an original wolf and their convert happened to be the seer or even the seer, but just got unlucky with what we now know is a dice roll of unknown sides.

If the convert was the Seer, why bother using me disguised as the Seer? Why not the original seer?

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If the convert was the Seer, why bother using me disguised as the Seer? Why not the original seer?

Because you were taking heat and if you are an original wolf I'd think you are more likely to have conversion abilities than converted wolves.

[MrBug708]

That's quite a huge leap of assumption

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That's quite a huge leap of assumption

That is why I wouldn't vote for you without a little more proof. But why use the original seer if not needed. As I stated it is possible you are still the seer, but just have done some strange things. As I type this I remember you being strange though in the Evil Dead game and going off to the woods from the cabin just because you could.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I can see that, but that is if Bug was the convert. He could be an original wolf and their convert happened to be the seer or even the seer, but just got unlucky with what we now know is a dice roll of unknown sides.

Heh... yeah I actually laid out that scenario a few posts back.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

That is why I wouldn't vote for you without a little more proof. But why use the original seer if not needed. As I stated it is possible you are still the seer, but just have done some strange things. As I type this I remember you being strange though in the Evil Dead game and going off to the woods from the cabin just because you could.

Heh. It won't surprise you that I didn't even know you were playing in that game

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Heh. It won't surprise you that I didn't even know you were playing in that game

That might be because I don't know if we were ever in the same room before I died.

[Abe Sargent]

All pms sent if you are waiting on one, lmk

[Commo_Soldier]

So tired now that the back and forth has stopped, but must stay awake until night actions.

[Abe Sargent]

The night passes uneventfully, and you take that as a good sign. You didn't get any sleep, but the rest was nice. Breakfast is cold against the morning, and the nights chill is in your bones for a while. It doesn't matter what the temperature is outside, a man is always cold inside when he wakens.

The night steals life giving warmth.


You wait while most of your comrades arrive, but notice some still have not come out. After breakfast, you wonder if they've overslept, so you start looking for them.


You eventually find the Exorcist sitting calmly on a bench, until you walk in front of him to greet him and notice that has face has been chewed off. Only the fact he is wearing the same clothes as yesterday identifies this as dzilla77's body.

But where is CrimsonFox?

You keep looking. You walk by the church and notice that someone has hastily dug something in the cemetery last night. You start digging and in a handful of minutes, just a foot below the surface, you come across CF's body, dead to violent ends. It looks like someone snapped his neck.


Both CF and dzilla77 have died. CF was a roleless Lightbrigner, and dzilla77 was The Exorcist.


Night Four has ended. Day Five ends on 10pm Friday night.

[Narcizo]

Man - you guys are killing me. I move off of Chief because no-one is going there and then everyone is "Why are we voting Eagle instead of Chief".

[Abe Sargent]

Based on my feel for the group, we will have no major weekend deadlines, so after the lynch ends at 10, we will have an extended night five until 5 pm on Sunday to get me your actions. after that, Day six will end at 10 pm on Monday night, so it will be extended through the weekend.

[MrBug708]

Damn