Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread

[Comey]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Maybe I just don't have a good view on Haith, but it feels like New Mexico hiring Steve Alford as he was about to get kicked out of Iowa City, only you'd have to replace New Mexico with, say, Missouri or another school that would be comparable- not a school in a smaller conference looking for a "big time coach".

SI

I think it's been said that Miami didn't even want the buyout in Haith's contract...they just wanted him gone. That can't illicit confidence in Mizzou's fan base.

[Comey]

I know it's small potatoes, but my current home of higher education (Fairfield) hired Princeton coach Sydney Johnson to replace Ed Cooley. I don't follow Fairfield a whole lot because I'm a grad student who lives over an hour away from campus and is only there at night, but this seems like a good hire to me.

[Groundhog]

I find it a little surprising that, despite the trip to the finals last season, Butler only landed one top-150 player (according to Rivals) in the class of 2011, and that was #124. I wonder what effect two straight trips will have.

Obviously with a school like Butler it's more the coaching than the raw talent of the recruits they are bringing in, but will still be interesting to see what sort of kids they are able to bring in now.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I find it a little surprising that, despite the trip to the finals last season, Butler only landed one top-150 player (according to Rivals) in the class of 2011, and that was #124. I wonder what effect two straight trips will have.

Obviously with a school like Butler it's more the coaching than the raw talent of the recruits they are bringing in, but will still be interesting to see what sort of kids they are able to bring in now.

It apparently came down to the wire with them versus Indiana for Top 20 recruit Cody Zeller last year. I think if they get in that battle again, this trip might help sway a discussion a bit easier.

Cody Zeller Chooses Indiana Over Butler, North Carolina

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Radii

Wait wait wait.



This is a seriously fancy way to look at things to make Haith look as good as possible. Those 3 20 win seasons came in a period from the 97/98 season to the 01/02 season when Miami made the NCAA Tournament 4 out of 5 years led by Leonard Hamilton and then Perry Clark.

When Haith took over they had fallen back a bit with two bad seasons, but prior to those two bad seasons Miami had 8 winning seasons in a row, 7 postseason appearances in those 8 years including 4 NCAA Tournament Bids and a Sweet 16 appearance. That's not awesome but its not "historically bad" either.


In one of Haith's 20 win seasons he went 4-12 in conference play and had no postseason at all. In the other, 6-10 and an NIT bid. For awhile now the ACC has rightfully taken a TON of crap for being Duke/UNC and 10 also rans, rightfully so. This isn't a super super strong conference that Miami just can't compete in. Its a conference with tons of opportunities for anyone able to step up and Miami has had 1st team all ACC players and as much chance as anyone to step up and has failed miserably. That description above is sugar coating of the highest order.



The point of everything above of course is that IMO he has had a *very* fair shot. He took over a team two years removed from consistent NCAA Tournament appearances in a great location and took them nowhere.

Thanks.. honestly I know NOTHING about this guy. I guess time will tell.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Gotta be a mixed bag for wade. Good news for the CAA, probably bad news for any other team in the conference

SI

As I'm reading this thread (on vacation so not on the board as much), I said this exactly to my wife. Great, but sucks . Bad news for individual CAA teams, but good news for the CAA - but that really helps everyone in the long run.

If Shaka lives out this contract, expect VCU to have a monster class in.. what.. 3 years? Then 6ish years from now they could have just an absolute monster team (for mid-major standards).

Of course, Butler could do the same thing.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I find it a little surprising that, despite the trip to the finals last season, Butler only landed one top-150 player (according to Rivals) in the class of 2011, and that was #124. I wonder what effect two straight trips will have.

Obviously with a school like Butler it's more the coaching than the raw talent of the recruits they are bringing in, but will still be interesting to see what sort of kids they are able to bring in now.

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It apparently came down to the wire with them versus Indiana for Top 20 recruit Cody Zeller last year. I think if they get in that battle again, this trip might help sway a discussion a bit easier.

Cody Zeller Chooses Indiana Over Butler, North Carolina

Well, here's the other thing (as I mention in my post above). Your amazing march madness run won't pay off in the immediate following class. Many (most?) recruits have already signed LOIs. Even for two years out, much of the contact has been made really. The 2010 Finals game will pay off for the freshman class that comes in in 2011 a little, but mostly in 2012. And that 2012 class will REALLY see some growth with the repeat years.

[Young Drachma]

Princeton fans are trying to figure out why their coach left them for an MAAC job at Fairfield. He was a Princeton alum, too. Money? Or just tired of dealing with recruiting in the Ivy League? Seems like a curious move.

[Wolfpack]

Well, everything looks like it went to hell in a handbasket today for State. Regardless of whether State made "official" offers or not to someone like Smart, it's coming off in the media like a total rejection at this point. AD Debbie Yow issued a statement via email describing the issues facing the search process and most everyone (at least on the internet) is calling it a horrible move that reeks of panic.

Personally, I'm okay with not getting Smart. He would have just been too much of a wild-card hire to me. He was such an unknown that the range of possibilities would have been "a great in the making" to "utter disaster" and right now, State needs something where they know the trendline will go up and not have to revisit the hire again in five years. The problem is this seems to be a perfectly awful offseason to go hunting for a steady, proven coach. They're just not out there.

At this point, I'm not much caring anymore who gets hired. It's not going to be a grand slam unifying hire and the fanbase will continue to be at war with itself and we'll revisit this issue again within the next 5-7 years. Oh, well.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Princeton fans are trying to figure out why their coach left them for an MAAC job at Fairfield. He was a Princeton alum, too. Money? Or just tired of dealing with recruiting in the Ivy League? Seems like a curious move.

Wondering that myself. Dayton fans were keen on throwing the name Sydney Johnson around a lot when our opening came up. He seems like a coach that could've waited out a couple more years, and with a couple more impressive Ivy finishes and an NCAA run he could've made some major cash at a Big Six or even top mid-major type school.

I just don't see that happening at Fairfield.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Well, everything looks like it went to hell in a handbasket today for State. Regardless of whether State made "official" offers or not to someone like Smart, it's coming off in the media like a total rejection at this point. AD Debbie Yow issued a statement via email describing the issues facing the search process and most everyone (at least on the internet) is calling it a horrible move that reeks of panic.

Personally, I'm okay with not getting Smart. He would have just been too much of a wild-card hire to me. He was such an unknown that the range of possibilities would have been "a great in the making" to "utter disaster" and right now, State needs something where they know the trendline will go up and not have to revisit the hire again in five years. The problem is this seems to be a perfectly awful offseason to go hunting for a steady, proven coach. They're just not out there.

At this point, I'm not much caring anymore who gets hired. It's not going to be a grand slam unifying hire and the fanbase will continue to be at war with itself and we'll revisit this issue again within the next 5-7 years. Oh, well.

Not trying to slam you or your team, but it seems like the last time you went hunting for the next big coach after Sendek's departure, the Pack ended up rejected by multiple coaches and settled on Lowe. Maybe I am mis-remembering the search, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It kind of seems like about the same thing that is happening now? The AD and fans must be wondering why the State job seems about as desirable as Kryptonite right now. It seems like a job that has its pros and cons, but more pros than cons for me. As Radii said earlier in the thread, the ACC is a conference just DYING for someone to pick up the mantle of the 3rd best team to fight with Duke and UNC, a team that could easily perenially be an NCAA team. For the life of me, I can't figure out why no one can seem to do this on a consistent basis.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Radii

Wait wait wait.



This is a seriously fancy way to look at things to make Haith look as good as possible. Those 3 20 win seasons came in a period from the 97/98 season to the 01/02 season when Miami made the NCAA Tournament 4 out of 5 years led by Leonard Hamilton and then Perry Clark.

When Haith took over they had fallen back a bit with two bad seasons, but prior to those two bad seasons Miami had 8 winning seasons in a row, 7 postseason appearances in those 8 years including 4 NCAA Tournament Bids and a Sweet 16 appearance. That's not awesome but its not "historically bad" either.


In one of Haith's 20 win seasons he went 4-12 in conference play and had no postseason at all. In the other, 6-10 and an NIT bid. For awhile now the ACC has rightfully taken a TON of crap for being Duke/UNC and 10 also rans, rightfully so. This isn't a super super strong conference that Miami just can't compete in. Its a conference with tons of opportunities for anyone able to step up and Miami has had 1st team all ACC players and as much chance as anyone to step up and has failed miserably. That description above is sugar coating of the highest order.



The point of everything above of course is that IMO he has had a *very* fair shot. He took over a team two years removed from consistent NCAA Tournament appearances in a great location and took them nowhere.

Yep you beat me to it and said it much more eloquently that I would have. The local press is talking about how hard it is to win at Miami and how Haith was able to but my research has shown that the previous three coaches (not only Hamilton) had much more success than Haith. Just because teams play more games now doesn't make him a better coach.

Its like saying the 2001 Mariners are better than the 1932 Yankees because they won more games.

[Butter]

So let me get this straight. BYU's head coach is Dave Rose and his top assistant's name is Dave Rice?

OK, got it.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Well, everything looks like it went to hell in a handbasket today for State. Regardless of whether State made "official" offers or not to someone like Smart, it's coming off in the media like a total rejection at this point. AD Debbie Yow issued a statement via email describing the issues facing the search process and most everyone (at least on the internet) is calling it a horrible move that reeks of panic.

Personally, I'm okay with not getting Smart. He would have just been too much of a wild-card hire to me. He was such an unknown that the range of possibilities would have been "a great in the making" to "utter disaster" and right now, State needs something where they know the trendline will go up and not have to revisit the hire again in five years. The problem is this seems to be a perfectly awful offseason to go hunting for a steady, proven coach. They're just not out there.

At this point, I'm not much caring anymore who gets hired. It's not going to be a grand slam unifying hire and the fanbase will continue to be at war with itself and we'll revisit this issue again within the next 5-7 years. Oh, well.

Well I would have thought Wichita State's Gregg Marshall would have been an ideal fit for North Carolina State, but I see on ESPN now that he has turned them and all other schools down and got a contract extension.

[mckerney]

Still wish theyed hired Quin Snyder back.

[Izulde]

Not much has changed here. Dave Rice is still considered the lead guy, but Reggie Theus is coming to town for his interview this week. Mike Dunlap's name came up again for the first time in a while, but it's still down to Rice or Theus, realistically speaking.

I'd actually be a tiny bit disappointed in Rice, I think. I don't think he can restore the program to the national level of appeal or bring in the kind of recruits that Theus can, BG connection notwithstanding.

Plus, Theus has had success at the collegiate level and he has extensive NBA experience, both as a s player and a coach. To me, Rice would be a bit short-sighted and settling.

Livengood returns to Las Vegas today; coaching search hitting home stretch - Las Vegas Sun

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Princeton fans are trying to figure out why their coach left them for an MAAC job at Fairfield. He was a Princeton alum, too. Money? Or just tired of dealing with recruiting in the Ivy League? Seems like a curious move.

Agreed. Seems very curious to me. Alum, star of the team that beat UCLA in 96, came back home and rescued them from their worst basketball stretch in modern history. Who knows?

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Not much has changed here. Dave Rice is still considered the lead guy, but Reggie Theus is coming to town for his interview this week. Mike Dunlap's name came up again for the first time in a while, but it's still down to Rice or Theus, realistically speaking.

I'd actually be a tiny bit disappointed in Rice, I think. I don't think he can restore the program to the national level of appeal or bring in the kind of recruits that Theus can, BG connection notwithstanding.

Plus, Theus has had success at the collegiate level and he has extensive NBA experience, both as a s player and a coach. To me, Rice would be a bit short-sighted and settling.

Livengood returns to Las Vegas today; coaching search hitting home stretch - Las Vegas Sun

Really?

BYU credits a lot of their recruiting to Rice...they say he is an amazing recruiter...

I think he will do quite well there.

[MrBug708]

I agree. Theus would be a bad hire

[JonInMiddleGA]

UGA's Thompkins will enter the draft & hire an agent.
UGA's Leslie will test the waters but forego an agent & could return.

[Radii]

Missouri's Kim English and Laurence Bowers have declared for the draft but aren't signing with agents. Unless they are just going to go play in Europe or something I cannot imagine either of them staying in the draft.

Rumors are everywhere that all Tar Heels are coming back for next year. I'm not getting my hopes up quite yet. Only backup big man Justin Knox was a senior.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by digamma

Agreed. Seems very curious to me. Alum, star of the team that beat UCLA in 96, came back home and rescued them from their worst basketball stretch in modern history. Who knows?

Thinking through this some more, maybe Johnson just wants a realistic chance to coach in the NCAA tournament again in the next five years.

[Swaggs]

Final USA Today poll is out: Top 25: Connecticut, Butler top final poll of season - USATODAY.com

Interestingly, someone gave Ohio State a #1 vote.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Final USA Today poll is out: Top 25: Connecticut, Butler top final poll of season - USATODAY.com Interestingly, someone gave Ohio State a #1 vote.

I wonder what that is supposed to be ranking. "Best" team this morning? "Best" season / body of work? Something else?

It's a fairly rhetorical wonder but still.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Final USA Today poll is out: Top 25: Connecticut, Butler top final poll of season - USATODAY.com

Interestingly, someone gave Ohio State a #1 vote.

That is the tricky part of polls. If they started a whole new tournament tomorrow Id still pick Ohio State or Kansas over UConn and especially Butler in my brackets and Im sure the odds of Ohio St or Kansas winning it would be better than the other two teams but they didnt earn it so..................

Basically, why polls dont mean much IMO. Always biased opinions involved.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I wonder what that is supposed to be ranking. "Best" team this morning? "Best" season / body of work? Something else?

It's a fairly rhetorical wonder but still.

Well, polling (in both football and basketball) has never really been clearly defined for me. Is it the most talented team (most HS All-Americans/NBA prospects, capable of beating any other team at any given time, etc. -- think Kentucky/North Carolina this season) that has maybe lost some games on the nights it didn't bring its "A-Game" or is it the team that has had the best season (won the games they have played, not had let downs against inferior opponents, looked dominating during the course of games, etc. -- think San Diego State/BYU/Pitt)? Basically, is it talent or is it accomplishment?

In the case of a final poll, after the postseason tournament has been completed, I think you go with the champion and runner up as #1 and #2 and then hash out #3+ (with strong consideration to the Final Four teams).

[MJ4H]

That's the problem with the polls. Nobody knows what the question is. How the hell are we supposed to trust the answer?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

That's the problem with the polls. Nobody knows what the question is. How the hell are we supposed to trust the answer?

I believe they are suppose to be voting on the best teams at the current moment. Of course no one will be able to convince me that Butler would win more than 50 percent of the time over Kansas or Ohio St so I believe the tourny is weighted too heavily in what they are suppose to be trying to figure out.

In other words either use the tournament to complete the final season rankings or rank the teams accordingly for their regular season as well. IMO losing 1 game doesnt knock Kansas or Ohio State below Butler. Trying to sell that Butler is a better team doesnt work for me.

I find it funny that VCU ended up behind Kansas and Ohio St but ahead of Duke. Whats the logic in that? VCU showed they were good enough to beat Duke consistantly with their run to the final four but not Kansas and Ohio St??? Good stuff.

Obviously the voters dont know what the hell they are voting on because that makes no sense to me.

[DeToxRox]

So apparently Mark Gottfried is taking the NC State gig. Sorry Wolfpack.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Its like saying the 2001 Mariners are better than the 1932 Yankees because they won more games.

Minor quibble - the 2001 M's not only won more games, but they had a higher winning percentage than the 1932 Yankees.

The Yankees won the World Series, so I'm totally fine calling them a better team, but I'm not sure the example you're using is the best one to illustrate (what I think is) your point.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Final USA Today poll is out: Top 25: Connecticut, Butler top final poll of season - USATODAY.com

Interestingly, someone gave Ohio State a #1 vote.

This is the dumbest thing in all of sports.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Marmel

This is the dumbest thing in all of sports.

Really? I mean, yeah, it's dumb but what about..

Astroturf? Tennis scoring? The BCS? NASCAR? Mike Tyson? The wave? John Madden?

SI

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

So apparently Mark Gottfried is taking the NC State gig. Sorry Wolfpack.

State fans are trying very hard to sell themselves on it from what I can tell. Gottfried said pretty much all the right things at the PC, but that means diddly (Lowe, by all accounts "said all the right things" at his PC when he was chosen five years ago).

Interestingly, I don't think Gottfried started getting support pushed into his corner until right about the time Debbie Yow totally upstaged the entire thing by calling out Gary Williams very publicly for what she believed was interference by poor-mouthing her to potential coaching candidates. Whether that is true or not, I don't know (Williams issued a statement denying it), but the remarks certainly galvanized the entire PC. A whole lot of State fans suddenly jumped on the bandwagon after that (one thing to understand about many State fans is that they are very conspiracy-minded from years of feeling like the local media, especially, is out to ruin the university and the program to the benefit of their favored school in Chapel Hill, so this sort of thing is red meat for the fans). The next Maryland game at the RBC Center will be...interesting, to say the least as a result.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Really? I mean, yeah, it's dumb but what about..

Astroturf? Tennis scoring? The BCS? NASCAR? Mike Tyson? The wave? John Madden?

SI

The BCS is close, but I am still going with this.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

State fans are trying very hard to sell themselves on it from what I can tell. Gottfried said pretty much all the right things at the PC, but that means diddly (Lowe, by all accounts "said all the right things" at his PC when he was chosen five years ago).

Interestingly, I don't think Gottfried started getting support pushed into his corner until right about the time Debbie Yow totally upstaged the entire thing by calling out Gary Williams very publicly for what she believed was interference by poor-mouthing her to potential coaching candidates. Whether that is true or not, I don't know (Williams issued a statement denying it), but the remarks certainly galvanized the entire PC. A whole lot of State fans suddenly jumped on the bandwagon after that (one thing to understand about many State fans is that they are very conspiracy-minded from years of feeling like the local media, especially, is out to ruin the university and the program to the benefit of their favored school in Chapel Hill, so this sort of thing is red meat for the fans). The next Maryland game at the RBC Center will be...interesting, to say the least as a result.

I'm hoping most of your fan base was expecting it with Gary???? There is no doubt in my mind this happened, as those 2 hate each other since Debbie tried to push Gary out at Maryland and failed miserably.

I actually think Gottfried might not be a bad selection compared to other candidates that were out there.

[Logan]

Have a buddy at work who's an NC State guy but doesn't really follow the more behind the scenes stuff. I told him that the Yow/Gary thing would hurt them as he listed off the reasons why he thought it was a great job for the right candidate; he had no idea about it.

I don't know if it was Gary being the one doing the badmouthing to potential coaches, as much as it was everybody in the inner coaching circle knowing what Yow did. He seems to be someone who is extremely respected with no real enemies (maybe because his team hasn't truly reached its full potential after the NC in 2002).

[Izulde]

Final four candidates for UNLV posted. Rice, Theus, Dunlap, and Ernie Kent.

UNLV announces official list of finalists for vacant men's basketball job - Las Vegas Sun

I'm 99.9999% sure it won't be Kent and 95% sure it won't be Dunlap. Both Rice and Theus are UNLV alumni who played on great Rebels teams of the past. Dunlap is a West Coast and Livengood guy, but if his calling card is defense, that won't play well with the fanbase. Kent sucked at Oregon, so I don't want him here.

The informal and wholly unscientific Sun poll has 59% of fans favoring Theus, 32% favoring Rice, 4% Kent, 1% Dunlap.

[MrBug708]

Did Mizzou BB fan go and off himself after this hire?

[duckman]

He's getting with his PR people to determine how to spin this hire into something positive.

[Logan]

I assume he's in Vegas again.

[cartman]

He's trying to make the Royals as well loved as the mighty Tigers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting post-op of the Painter situation. Makes a lot of sense why so many at Mizzou felt it was possible to land Painter. Most trust Moccia for good info. Obviously not the case anymore.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/why-mi...-pursuit-29611

[Logan]

current SIU Athletic Director Mario Moccia told Alden there was a chance he could help influence Painter to depart Purdue for Mizzou.

With assurances like that, how could you not be expecting him to be at the Cardinal game a couple days later?

Welcome to college athletics.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

With assurances like that, how could you not be expecting him to be at the Cardinal game a couple days later?

Welcome to college athletics.

That jumped off the page at me too. And also this, "But when Alden met with Painter in Orlando on March 29, it was clear from the outset of the meeting that non-committal coach was merely using Mizzou to beef up his hoops budget and personal bank account."

Clear from the beginning, huh? How in the world does this information translate somehow to "offer accepted, press conference this afternoon, attending a Cardinals game a couple of days later"? Clearly, people are just making shit up to feel cool, and some college sports fans believe everything they read anyway. It's insane.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good article about Maggie Dixon, 5 years later............

Maggie Dixon, five years after her death, still remembered for her impact - ESPN

[Radii]

Tyler Zeller, John Henson bypass NBA draft, will return to North Carolina - ESPN

Two down, one to go!


Also for Kansas:

Kansas' Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris twins hire agent, declare for NBA draft - ESPN

[Radii]

dola, I'm satisfied whether Barnes returns or not now. Zeller wasn't going to be a lottery pick and Henson may be an exciting prospect but he really, really needs to bulk up a bit and work on becoming a better offensive player in situations where he doesn't get an offensive rebound or an alley-oop. I feel the same way about Barnes as well. I know that he'll be drafted high enough that it would be hard to pass up the money, but Barnes could *really* use another year in the weight room and another year working on his game to prepare him for the NBA. He settles for the jump shot too much, he'll make his money in the NBA by being a threat to attack the basket, and his mindset most games is just not right for that IMO.

[Radii]

North Carolina State AD Debbie Yow accuses Maryland Terrapins coach Gary Williams of 'sabotage' - ESPN

When asked if she had specific examples of anything Williams had said or done, Yow replied: "There'll be somebody else writing about that nationally. I don't need to be doing that. That's not my job."

If you're going to publicly accuse someone of "sabotaging" your coaching search, doesn't it become your job to cite examples? :P She does not look good here at all imo.

edit: I'll go as far as to say that the first person that comes to mind with this kind of thing is Al Davis, that is just not a good thing

[Izulde]

According to some insider info I received today:

1) Dave Rice is 99.999% certain to be the next UNLV head coach. That's not a surprise.

What is interesting is this:

2) Rice is going to try to get Larry Johnson and Ed O'Bannon on his staff, which will open up significant recruiting opportunities, particularly O'Bannon with the LA market.

Note, I'm not saying these are guarantees. I'm saying this is what the actors involved are shooting for.

[MrBug708]

That would be interesting, but wouldn't say much about the coaching ability