Game of Thrones on HBO

[Julio Riddols]

Having finally caught up to the current episode, I have no idea really what everyone seems to be complaining about. The books this season was based off of are known to be boring and slow, but to me there has been plenty of intrigue and I haven't felt much of a drop off at all. I think its all setting up for a killer episode 8 and 9, when the dominos that have been set up finally get knocked down.

I think the real issue people are having here is that the majority of characters left on the show are either "bad guys", or "good guys" in limbo waiting for a catalyst to push their plot forward in a more forceful way. The one thing I do agree on is how silly the Sand Snake/Jamie/Bronn/Myrcella scene played out. It was poor fighting that they tried to fix with editing, but still pretty obvious. The way the scene came about was also suspect, but I think it was a way to get beyond the event and kill two birds with one stone.

I think we'll see things come to a satisfactory conclusion and set up season 6 though. There are a lot of wicks lit, and most of them are very near reaching the explosives they are attached to.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

but that's arya's storyline

It's going to be a medieval fantasy Boondock Saints - swords blazing!

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

The one thing I do agree on is how silly the Sand Snake/Jamie/Bronn/Myrcella scene played out. It was poor fighting that they tried to fix with editing, but still pretty obvious. The way the scene came about was also suspect, but I think it was a way to get beyond the event and kill two birds with one stone.

I read someone's theory (on reddit) behind why the fight scene turned out so bad and it makes sense (if the facts are true). The place they used for the scenes is The Alcázar in Seville in Spain. They don't typically let people shoot there, but they made a rare exception for Game of Thrones. However, they only gave them a week. With only a week to work with, they didn't have a lot of time to set up and have multiple takes of all of the scenes they needed. And it takes a really long time to shoot a fight scene, especially one with so many people fighting. I'd guess that they only got a few takes of each part of the scene before having to move on.

If that's the case, it's no wonder the scene turned out like something you'd see in a shitty Syfy channel movie.

[Julio Riddols]

Ah, makes sense. It did look like they were kind of winging it in the scene, very touch and go rather than full on attacking each other.

[Easy Mac]

I'm still a week behind, but this is all I could think of when I saw Mr. Eko trying to sell Tyrion's manhood.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I'm still a week behind, but this is all I could think of when I saw Mr. Eko trying to sell Tyrion's manhood.

That scene was another from that particular week's episode that stuck in my craw, if only because I think that if threatened with immediate throat (and cock) slitting "I'm Tyrion Lannister!" seems like it would be a thousand times more logical/effective/convincing pitch for saving his own life than "Stop!.....that old guy over there is a pretty good fighter!"

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

That scene was another from that particular week's episode that stuck in my craw, if only because I think that if threatened with immediate throat (and cock) slitting "I'm Tyrion Lannister!" seems like it would be a thousand times more logical/effective/convincing pitch for saving his own life than "Stop!.....that old guy over there is a pretty good fighter!"

Except for the fact that Cersei has offered a Lordship to anyone who would bring Tyrion's head to her. Doesn't matter if its been taken off his shoulders.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

That scene was another from that particular week's episode that stuck in my craw, if only because I think that if threatened with immediate throat (and cock) slitting "I'm Tyrion Lannister!" seems like it would be a thousand times more logical/effective/convincing pitch for saving his own life than "Stop!.....that old guy over there is a pretty good fighter!"

Episodes from earlier this season seemed to indicate this approach wouldn't have gone so well for him.

edit: Or what was just said.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, I get that, and I'm asking an awful lot from what is basically a throw away plot device, but it still seems like when faced with a truly life or death moment Tyrion would choose to rely on the promise of manipulating his own wits and his name, even if only for a second longer, rather than hyping up the fighting prowess of the nearby homeless guy and hoping that will somehow extend to him.

[ISiddiqui]

I think it'd be an utterly stupid thing to throw his name around when the prize for killing him is so large. I think he did use his wits by saving them without indicating how big of a prize he is. I mean really, what more could he offer than Cersei was offering?

[stevew]

All those casting details are pretty painful to consider. At this point aren't there only 23 hours left of this show most likely. Isn't an 8th season out of the question unless Terminator flops or they kill/recast Khaleesi, Tyrion, Cercei, Jaime among others.

Edit-

I suppose we'll get season 7 parts 1&2 so 29-33 more episodes

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think it'd be an utterly stupid thing to throw his name around when the prize for killing him is so large. I think he did use his wits by saving them without indicating how big of a prize he is. I mean really, what more could he offer than Cersei was offering?

Well, I feel like I should acknowledge again that I know I'm really arguing minutiae here, but he could promise less reward with more immediate gain and less work. They're like months (?) away from King's Landing, right? And several roguish characters have already turned down lordships, or specifically lamented the trappings thereof when compared to adventuring/privateering. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that dealing with the Lannisters doesn't necessarily seem like it carries great promise at the moment, either.

Like I say, it's total minutae crap, but it struck me as out of character for everybody involved.

[ISiddiqui]

But... he has nothing to offer. He has no money, no power, nothing. His instead puffing up Jorah as some sort of amazing fighter seemed to be a quite brilliant turn.

[thesloppy]

*shrug* That will surely be trouble when they check his ATM balance. He doesn't have to have power or money, so much as convince them he does, if only long enough to save his weiner/throat another moment. Convincing has been shown to be Tyrion's game so far, and he still has at least enough worth to be kidnapped by Varys from one queen, and then kidnapped by Jorah for another, and both Varys and Daenerys could/would surely offer more than the return those second-rate slavers actually got.

Comparatively, hyping up Jorah as a fighter only works if the pirates and Tyrion both choose to ignore that Jorah's fighting abilities have nothing to do with Tyrion (or his penis) in the slightest, and even then only saves him in the shortest of terms, unless he can also convince a slave owner to buy him as Jorah's li'l gladiator buddy as well (which is even more hacky, doesn't seem like much of a salvation at all, and of course happens immediately)

[whomario]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

*shrug* That will surely be trouble when they check his ATM balance. He doesn't have to have power or money, so much as convince them he does, if only long enough to save his weiner/throat another moment. Convincing has been shown to be Tyrion's game so far, and he still has at least enough worth to be kidnapped by Varys from one queen, and then kidnapped by Jorah for another, and both Varys and Daenerys could/would surely offer more than the return those second-rate slavers actually got.

And convince them he did. Just not with the argument that you would have liked him to present

Also, Varys did not kidnap him and his worth for Jorah is basically in his perception that his queen would wish to personally kill and/or humiliate a Lannister (any Lannister), no ? He is not actually snatching him for any objective value he brings to the table.

Kinda agree with your last part, but thats the sort of plot hole you find by the dozen in any series without it bothering the vast majority of viewers i think.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by whomario

Also, Varys did not kidnap him and his worth for Jorah is basically in his perception that his queen would wish to personally kill and/or humiliate a Lannister (any Lannister), no ? He is not actually snatching him for any objective value he brings to the table.

Yeah, I was kinda squidging the definition of kidnapping, but you get the point...Varys was knowingly risking his life with Tyrion, and planned on taking him to the exact same place that Jorah was (whether Jorah knows it or not), so I think his value remains pretty well established.

Kinda agree with your last part, but thats the sort of plot hole you find by the dozen in any series without it bothering the vast majority of viewers i think.

Totally, and again I think it was only notable to me because there were a lot of moments in that episode that stuck out as seemingly rushed or out-of-place. As mentioned upthread Bronn and Jamie arriving at the palace at the exact same moment as the Sand Snakes, without any explanation about how either group got into that supposedly impenetrable fortress, was some TJ Hooker level TV.

[ISiddiqui]

Indeed.... he uses a better argument. There is a reason that Varys was so adamant that they didn't leave their little carriage - because everyone in western Essos knows that Tyrion's head on a stick = Lordship. What's he going to convince the pirates of? He's going to put them on the Iron Throne?

[whomario]

I kinda forgot: Was it established what exactly Varys plan was ? (also, where the hell is he ? Is he still going to Mereen ? Shouldn´t he already be there at this point ? I feel these are questions i ask myself way too frequently on this show )
My best guess would be that he saw his value basically in him lending further legitimacy to Dany, although i do not quite get the reasoning why this would work.

[Chief Rum]

I would love to know where Varys is. He is abit off the reservation now.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I would love to know where Varys is. He is abit off the reservation now.

At least he is not out of sight for the whole season after finishing off the past season on a huge cliffhanger... I still have no idea how you can really pick up Brans storyline without it seeming majorly weird one way or another.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Indeed.... he uses a better argument. There is a reason that Varys was so adamant that they didn't leave their little carriage - because everyone in western Essos knows that Tyrion's head on a stick = Lordship. What's he going to convince the pirates of? He's going to put them on the Iron Throne?

Well, although I used the words "I'm Tyrion Lannister" he surely isn't confined to only that pitch, or that of hyping Jorah's skillz. He knows Varys and Jorah both wanted to take him to Danaerys, who is close enough that he stumbles into her anyways. He wouldn't necessarily have to reveal his identity, other than to say he was a political pawn very valuable to the nearby queen, who would surely pay more for his return than the handful of gold they would/did receive for their sale. To me that makes a hell of a lot more sense than "Hey! Don't cut of MY wiener because that guy can fight real good." I don't even remember how their amnesty extended to Tyrion under that pretense.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Well, although I used the words "I'm Tyrion Lannister" he surely isn't confined to only that pitch, or that of hyping Jorah's skillz. He knows Varys and Jorah both wanted to take him to Danaerys, who is close enough that he stumbles into her anyways. He wouldn't necessarily have to reveal his identity, other than to say he was a political pawn very valuable to the nearby queen, who would surely pay more for his return than the handful of gold they would and did receive for their sale.

And how would he prove that to them? Furthermore, he doesn't particularly know how the Queen would receive him. Varys was supposed to make introductions after al And an important political pawn dwarf - he couldn't take the chance that these pirates had some sense in them to realize who that was (what other dwarf would be an important political pawn in the known world?) l. Tyrion steps up in the last episode because otherwise, both him and Jorah would be fucked.

I just don't see how Tyrion's cunning didn't work or was not in character.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by whomario

At least he is not out of sight for the whole season after finishing off the past season on a huge cliffhanger... I still have no idea how you can really pick up Brans storyline without it seeming majorly weird one way or another.

Bran will come back looking 40 years old, if his puberty progress on screen keeps on track.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And how would he prove that to them? Furthermore, he doesn't particularly know how the Queen would receive him. Varys was supposed to make introductions after al And an important political pawn dwarf - he couldn't take the chance that these pirates had some sense in them to realize who that was (what other dwarf would be an important political pawn in the known world?) l. Tyrion steps up in the last episode because otherwise, both him and Jorah would be fucked.

I just don't see how Tyrion's cunning didn't work or was not in character.

Those are all great questions that I think might give him pause in any other situation that wasn't a knife slitting across his throat. "I don't know how Danaerys might receive me" is a good reason not to get on a boat for a six-month journey to visit an unsuspecting rival, if it's saving you from a knife running across your throat in the next minute/hour/day, who cares? Let's also remember that his current plan's endgame had him poised as a dwarf gladiator, moments away from a gory, public death in backwater dirt.

I'm certainly not arguing it didn't work, of course it worked, the plot went forward. And I'm not arguing that Tyrion coming up with a cunning, manipulative plan was out of character. I'm just saying that the plan was so entirely dependent on someone else, didn't seem to explicitly include his own freedom, and ultimately relied so hard on deus ex machina that it seemed out of character. All of which was made worse by the slavers granting him amnesty way too easily, and then having a slave buyer procure a midget gladiator for the fighter pits because he was funny.

But really, it wasn't worth this level of argument, so sorry if I got any feathers up. The slaver bit just struck me as another series of hacky moments in an unusually hacky episode that could've just as easily been tweaked/cleaned up into something a little more more intelligent.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by whomario

I kinda forgot: Was it established what exactly Varys plan was ? (also, where the hell is he ? Is he still going to Mereen ? Shouldn´t he already be there at this point ?

I heard he's going to join in with the unsullied. Rumor is he should fit right in

[Easy Mac]

Finally caught up.

If that's the price we have to pay to get an antidote for someone getting poisoned on this show, I'm fine with multiple people getting poisoned each week.

[stevew]

World War Z

[Coffee Warlord]

Ice zombies, they are a bitch.

[Grammaticus]

First impression, AWESOME!

[kingfc22]

If you're going to kill one. You better kill them all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That was a fucking awesome episode. Wow!

[Edward64]

Good episode.

Great last 30 minutes.

[Chief Rum]

That was so completely awesome. Everything about that episode rocked (except maybe the Cersei stuff, but that's it).

And I can't even give my thoughts in this thread about what is hinted at in the next episode, but needless to say, I'm anxious for the next episode.

[Neon_Chaos]

SHIT. JUST. GOT. REAL.

[SteveMax58]

Awesome episode!

[stevew]

So are they setting up where Arya has to either finish her mission or extract revenge on Meryn Trent? Seems like an intersection is in order.

Also didn't quite understand wtf the neck was going on with the sailor, etc.

[Coffee Warlord]

I did very much miss Tyrion in his political banter mode.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I did very much miss Tyrion in his political banter mode.

Same here. Some of my favorite episodes were when he was the Hand and his various interactions with the political players.

[stevew]

These "previously on..." Segments are getting silly.

[Arles]

They use it to remind us of things that happened a while in the past but are coming back into play now (ie, Jon Snow getting his valyrian steel sword from the former night watch captain). Had they not shown that bit, I would have been a little confused on why his sword killed the White Walker and the other dude's didn't (I had forgot that it was valyrian).

[ISiddiqui]

OTOH, they give things away too much. For instance, Stannis routing the Wildlings last season was basically telegraphed by the "Previously on..."

[Arles]

Yeah, but I think most GoT watchers are not fully educated on the lore/books and more casual watchers. Giving them quick cues at the start of prior events helps to limit the confusion regarding the myriad of characters and plot-lines intertwined throughout the season. I can see how it would bother the more attentive/informed, but I also see why they do it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I usually enjoy most (not all) of Andy Greenwald's Game of Thrones reviews. This line from this week's review made me laugh:

"Because last night’s episode of Thrones taught us that only three things can stop a rampaging army of pickax-wielding, undead popsicles: obsidian, Valyrian steel, and 6 to 10 inches of shallow water."

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I did very much miss Tyrion in his political banter mode.

On the other hand was anyone else a bit stunned by how stupid Tyrion was being in his "who is going to support you in Westeros" speech? Way to ignore 1/7th of the Kingdom who is basically waiting to jump up and down in joy if you came back (aka, Dorne).

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

On the other hand was anyone else a bit stunned by how stupid Tyrion was being in his "who is going to support you in Westeros" speech? Way to ignore 1/7th of the Kingdom who is basically waiting to jump up and down in joy if you came back (aka, Dorne).

But does Tyrion know that?

[ISiddiqui]

I think everyone knows that. Oberon wasn't the only one mad at the death of Elia of Dorne.

[Easy Mac]

So Olly is totally going to try and kill Jon Snow, right?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So Olly is totally going to try and kill Jon Snow, right?

Totally looks like. And while Sam was trying to help Jon, I can totally see Olly taking his words a completely different way.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think everyone knows that. Oberon wasn't the only one mad at the death of Elia of Dorne.

But as far as Tyrion is aware, the marriage pact between Myrcella and Trystane Martell would have made House Martell (at least Doran Martell) perfectly happy to keep the Lanisters around.

[ISiddiqui]

He's not that stupid.