Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I dont know, can the B10 really offer significantly more money than the new ACC deal to Maryland?

I think Maryland is perfectly happy to sit tight to be honest.

I would think they are too but don't under estimate hwo much money the Big 10 teams are rolling in because of the Big 10 Network. Purdue made almost twice what Texas did last year and I guarantee Maryland ain't even close to what Texas made.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Eh = the average SEC school is significantly worse academically than the average PAC 10 School or Big 10 - the fact of the matter is, academics aren't really a big deal at all in consideration down there (or if it is, they do a pretty good job hiding it). Part of this is because state schools in the south simply aren't as good - Mississippi or Alabama or Kentucky or Arkansas aren't in the same universe as their west coast counterparts (Cal / UCLA / Texas) or Big 10 equivalents (Michigan). Overall, The PAC 10 now has USC / UCLA / Texas / / Stanford and Cal - Vandy may be the only school from the SEC that is in the same universe as those, and even that isn't a Stanford or a Cal. The Big 10 has name academic schools like Northwestern / U of I / Michigan at a pretty elite level - again, Vandy aside, no one in the SEC comes close.

Just because the Pac-10 or Big-10 as it is right now is a good academic conference doesn't mean that the SEC is a bunch of dim-wits or that the SEC isn't on the rise in terms of academics. I certainly wouldn't compare any SEC school to Stanford or Cal. But I would place half of the SEC above Arizona, Arizona State, Washington State, and every school in the SEC not in Mississippi above Oregon State. (And I believe current academic rankings would do the same.)

So even though I didn't originally bring up the Pac-10, I will say it should be hard for that conference to really look down its nose at the SEC when many SEC schools rank higher than members of the Pac-10. But that is my point, casual observers (or non-observers) across the country refuse to see the academic progress the major universities in the south continue to make.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Jon, I'm hearing GTech is in play. You hearing anything about that?

The lead Ga Tech rivals writer believes both the Big Ten and SEC may be options for Ga Tech, in addition to remaining in the ACC.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

ND sure, tOSU yeah, maybe Michigan (unless their struggles continue) but other than that I can picture a lot of 15k games if GT isn't perpetually at the top of the conference standings. And that's before we even consider the impact of Georgia State.

This is just crazy talk. You realize GT hasn't had 15,000 at a game since they started keeping attendance figures in the 1940s, right? And there were some really bad teams in the early 80s and one really, really bad one in the 90s. And lots of games against Furman, UTC and even an Indiana State or two. Closest was an 18k game with a 1-8-1 GT team playing a bad Navy team in late November 1980.

[MJ4H]

Update on vote for A&M to SEC. Apparently this is where we are:

PAC Morris E. Foster (Chairman)
PAC Ida Clement Steen
PAC Richard A. Box
PAC Jim Schwertner

SEC James P. Wilson (Vice Chairman)
SEC Phil Adams
SEC Gene Stallings
SEC Lupe Fraga
SEC Cresencio Davila

Bill Jones is unknown. Four of the five SEC votes are locks. Three of the four PAC votes are locks. The Texas Gov. is pro PAC for reasons unrelated to football or aTm interests (go figure).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW......the news conference from Texas when they accept a bid should be epic for all the wrong reasons after Nebraska decided to take a pound of flesh on the way out the door. I can't see a scenario where Texas would leave without returning a pot-shot on Nebraska.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Update on vote for A&M to SEC. Apparently this is where we are:

PAC Morris E. Foster (Chairman)
PAC Ida Clement Steen
PAC Richard A. Box
PAC Jim Schwertner

SEC James P. Wilson (Vice Chairman)
SEC Phil Adams
SEC Gene Stallings
SEC Lupe Fraga
SEC Cresencio Davila

Bill Jones is unknown. Four of the five SEC votes are locks. Three of the four PAC votes are locks. The Texas Gov. is pro PAC for reasons unrelated to football or aTm interests (go figure).

So, this vote could come down to a Dick (in) A. Box?

[MJ4H]

lol

[kcchief19]

Nebraska simply defied logic in their press conferences yesterday: one team leaving a conference doesn't destroy the conference, but we had to look at our options because Missouri's governor said the Big Ten had better academics than the Big 12.

Nebraska burned a lot of bridges yesterday. Coupled with their declaration that they don't think they owe a penalty for leaving the conference -- and even said the penalty wasn't "fair," I think you're almost guaranteeing this thing ends up in court, especially if one or more Big 12 teams find themselves out in the cold. They will have nothing to lose.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by digamma

This is just crazy talk. You realize GT hasn't had 15,000 at a game since they started keeping attendance figures in the 1940s, right? And there were some really bad teams in the early 80s and one really, really bad one in the 90s. And lots of games against Furman, UTC and even an Indiana State or two. Closest was an 18k game with a 1-8-1 GT team playing a bad Navy team in late November 1980.

I'm sure their attendance numbers are normally ok since we usually have a pretty competitive team and everyone comes out for the normal big games on the schedule (such as Georgia, Clemson, etc). It has been over a decade since I moved though, but at least back when I went regularly it was obvious on the games that no one cared about (such as a down year for Tech vs a normally horrible Duke team) that the attendance figure was maybe double how many people actually showed up for whatever reasons.

I don't want to speak for Jon, but I could easily see plenty of people seeing teams like Minnesota or Indiana or Illinois on the schedule and just not caring enough to go out of their way for those games. Obviously if Michigan or Ohio State or Penn State came to town, those games would sell easily. Maybe I am biased though and really just don't like the idea of Ga Tech going anywhere though so thinking it would be far worse than it actually would be. I just wouldn't be enthusiastic about it and could imagine plenty of others like me.

[bob]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm sure their attendance numbers are normally ok since we usually have a pretty competitive team and everyone comes out for the normal big games on the schedule (such as Georgia, Clemson, etc). It has been over a decade since I moved though, but at least back when I went regularly it was obvious on the games that no one cared about (such as a down year for Tech vs a normally horrible Duke team) that the attendance figure was maybe double how many people actually showed up for whatever reasons.

I don't want to speak for Jon, but I could easily see plenty of people seeing teams like Minnesota or Indiana or Illinois on the schedule and just not caring enough to go out of their way for those games. Obviously if Michigan or Ohio State or Penn State came to town, those games would sell easily. Maybe I am biased though and really just don't like the idea of Ga Tech going anywhere though so thinking it would be far worse than it actually would be. I just wouldn't be enthusiastic about it and could imagine plenty of others like me.

Georgia Tech is an odd team to compare to others given that the stadium holds more people than alumni left in the state. I imagine that's pretty rare, and the rest of Atlanta is very pro-UGA or other SEC school such as Auburn.

[Mantle2600]

Originally Posted by digamma

So, this vote could come down to a Dick (in) A. Box?

Best. Post. Ever.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Just because the Pac-10 or Big-10 as it is right now is a good academic conference doesn't mean that the SEC is a bunch of dim-wits or that the SEC isn't on the rise in terms of academics. I certainly wouldn't compare any SEC school to Stanford or Cal. But I would place half of the SEC above Arizona, Arizona State, Washington State, and every school in the SEC not in Mississippi above Oregon State. (And I believe current academic rankings would do the same.)

So even though I didn't originally bring up the Pac-10, I will say it should be hard for that conference to really look down its nose at the SEC when many SEC schools rank higher than members of the Pac-10. But that is my point, casual observers (or non-observers) across the country refuse to see the academic progress the major universities in the south continue to make.

The latest education ranking for public schools was just released by US News and World report:

Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

If you look at the top 50, the Pac has atleast 8 - with USC and Stanford certainly making it if Private schools were included. The Big Ten has all 10 (plus NW if private). The SEC has 4 - with Vandy if private schools were added. In the entire list of 68, all the Pac 10 (save OSU) and Big 10 are represented - just 7 SEC public schools make the cut.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

This is just crazy talk. You realize GT hasn't had 15,000 at a game since they started keeping attendance figures in the 1940s, right? And there were some really bad teams in the early 80s and one really, really bad one in the 90s. And lots of games against Furman, UTC and even an Indiana State or two. Closest was an 18k game with a 1-8-1 GT team playing a bad Navy team in late November 1980.

Forgive me a fairly rare bit of hyperbole, I pulled a low number from the ether largely for illustrative purposes.

But at the same time, I don't believe I'm alone in having just as much interest watching them play Furman or UTC as seeing Illinois or Northwestern come to town in the regular season.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by weirdos

-academic stuff-

wtfisthisshit.jpg

[miked]

I think the problem with GT is most people in the Atlanta area aren't from Atlanta. The majority are probably from the Northeast. The ones from around here are Dogpoop fans. I have much more interest in seeing tOSU, Mich, PSU, and some B10 schools than the boring dreck that comes here in the form of BC, MD, Clemson, NCSU, UNC, Duke. Even the VT and FSU games can be dreadful at times. If GT joined the Big10, I'd even go so far as to say I may buy season tickets (they're cheap anyway). But other than the ass-reaming we gave to the "U" 2 seasons ago at home, I have little desire to see the triple option battle against mediocre ACC teams.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by rowech

I would think they are too but don't under estimate hwo much money the Big 10 teams are rolling in because of the Big 10 Network. Purdue made almost twice what Texas did last year and I guarantee Maryland ain't even close to what Texas made.

Actually, once you factor in the local TV deal Texas made over $19.5 million, which is almost double what I assume you're referencing, their Big 12 share of $10.2 million. Purdue didn't make the top 15 in local TV deals, so I don't know what they made to compare accurately, but it certainly wasn't double what Texas made. Still, your basic premise holds true. In their new TV deal (be it Pac 10 or Big 10), Texas stands to make significantly more than they do now (and they will once again blow past Purdue in a rocket ship).

I found this article with the aforementioned top 15 in local TV deals:

A Look at Local Media Money - Team Speed Kills

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

The latest education ranking for public schools was just released by US News and World report:

Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

If you look at the top 50, the Pac has atleast 8 - with USC and Stanford certainly making it if Private schools were included. The Big Ten has all 10 (plus NW if private). The SEC has 4 - with Vandy if private schools were added. In the entire list of 68, all the Pac 10 (save OSU) and Big 10 are represented - just 7 SEC public schools make the cut.

And as was stated previously in this thread, there is a lot of manipulation of the measurement tools by universities to inflate their standing in this report. In some cases, they do things that are actually to the detriment of the students just to increase their ranking.

[Eaglesfan27]

Smart move by Scott who is reportedly personally hand delivering the invitations to Texas, Oklahoma, etc. to join the Pac-10 this weekend. This report also mentions Kansas as a backup plan if A&M doesn't jump on the offer.

Pac-10 invites on the way, with Kansas looming large on the radar | CollegeFootballTalk.com

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And as was stated previously in this thread, there is a lot of manipulation of the measurement tools by universities to inflate their standing in this report. In some cases, they do things that are actually to the detriment of the students just to increase their ranking.

Which would does Missouri prefer?

[timmynausea]

Doubt it means much, but I thought this was interesting: A Pitt fan talked to Pitt WR Cam Saddler today who was umpiring his son's baseball game.

I say to him (all while catching warm up pitches)--"what about this conference craziness...".. His quote.... "yeah, the big east is ending after this year, thats what the coaches are telling us....we are going to the ACC next year... when I asked back about the Kansas stuff.. he said.. "Yeah, Kansas will be football only--- but will remain an independent in hoops..."

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Delaney said setting up divisions will be based on competition first, and location second.

That's a fair point. For all the minor sports you need to break it down by location to save on travel costs, but for football and basketball they bring in enough revenue I don't see why they can't charter flights.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Doubt it means much, but I thought this was interesting: A Pitt fan talked to Pitt WR Cam Saddler today who was umpiring his son's baseball game.

I doubt the Pac-16 would offer Kansas unless it included basketball.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I doubt the Pac-16 would offer Kansas unless it included basketball.

I doubt the Pitt WR was referring to the Pac-16. Up until today it looked like Kansas didn't have much of a shot at the Pac, so all the talk was Big 12-Big East merge.

[MrBug708]

It will be interesting to see where Baylor lands in all of this. ConfUSA?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Doubt it means much, but I thought this was interesting: A Pitt fan talked to Pitt WR Cam Saddler today who was umpiring his son's baseball game.

Good god, how does a not even 21 year old have a son old enough where his games need umpires?

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Logan

Good god, how does a not even 21 year old have a son old enough where his games need umpires?

Haha. Saddler was umping.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Logan

Good god, how does a not even 21 year old have a son old enough where his games need umpires?

Ha I was confused too, then realized it was the fans son.

[timmynausea]

I've never felt more like Flasch. I should've just said PF talked to CS... etc.

[DeToxRox]

Ha, TCU will not accept Baylor in the MWC:

The Mountain West Conference was a geographical misnomer from the beginning, as it launched with San Diego State among its eight original teams before adding TCU in 2005 and Boise State on Friday.

The conference's reach doesn't appear to be stopping there.

According to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Kansas, Missouri and Kansas State are on the Mountain West's radar amid a continuing shakeup of the Big 12.

But Baylor isn't considered a candidate to join the conference, with TCU standing staunchly in its way, the Fort Worth newspaper reported, citing unnamed sources.

"The Mountain West wants to be a national player and continue to grow in that realm," MWC commissioner Craig Thompson said in a conference call with reporters Friday. "We are extremely interested in BCS automatic qualification. We are simply trying to get to the level where each and every year a Mountain West team is playing in a BCS bowl game."

TCU would mount a lobbying effort against Baylor if the Bears are left out of the conference-realignment mix, the Star-Telegram reported.

But the conference covets Kansas -- and its legendary basketball program.

"Look at it this way," Jayhawks coach Bill Self said Friday at a charity event, according to The Kansas City Star. "No matter what, I'm 100 percent confident we're going to land. And we may land in a group that gives us more exposure than we ever could have had before. We may land with somebody that opens up recruiting doors in areas that we never really tested before. We're not gonna lose what we already have. This may open up new avenues for us."

New avenues are assured for most -- if not all -- of the Big 12.

Colorado left Thursday for the Pac-10, Nebraska moved to the Big Ten a day later and Texas and the four other programs, not including Baylor, that make up the Big 12 South in football are leaning heavily toward a commitment to the Pac-10, or in Texas A&M's case, a possible jump to the SEC.

"We are gonna be in a BCS conference," Self said, according to the newspaper.

But count Self among those who still believe in the viability of the Big 12.

"If this league is held together," Self said, "we'll go get two teams or six teams and this league will be better than it ever has been."

[MrBug708]

TCU has never forgiven the Big-12 for taking Baylor over them

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

TCU has never forgiven the Big-12 for taking Baylor over them

Reading stuff elsewhere, apparently Baylor administration has acted like ass hats to all the of the non Big 12 Texas schools and people are speculating that SMU and Houston may try and keep them out of the Conference USA as well for how they have acted towards them in the past.

[MrBug708]

They do need another WAC team

[Buccaneer]

On another board, someone said this

Word out here in Big 12 country is that A&M is posturing, to make it look like they're not being led by the nose by UT, but will eventually go to the Pac-10 - they just don't want it to look like it's a package deal, and that they're capable of deciding on their own path.

Here was my reply

Yeah, if OU is willing to be Texas' bitch, then that makes A&M the bitch's little sister.

[Eaglesfan27]

That is a hilarious reply Bucc.

[Abe Sargent]

2 hours without a reply? Holy crap!

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Here was my reply:

OU is thinking that it's better to have UT as a conference opponent to ease the difficulty of the non-conference schedule. It also doesn't hurt that it puts more TV dollars in both coffers because of the strong OU market in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. It's really a win-win for both institutions.

[kcchief19]

Munch on this OU QB coach Jose Heuple says OU is heading to the SEC:
Heupel Gets Text From Fellow OU Assistant:We're Going To SEC - Video - KTBS Shreveport

I will probably end up being wrong but I will have hard time believing the Oklahoma and Texas schools want to go to the Pac 10 unless they have to. It has nothing to do with the quality of the conference -- it's all about time zones, exposure, travel and TV. I think they would both rather go to the SEC or Big Ten with all things being equal.

Meanwhile, Missouri says Mike Alden's meeting with the curators Sunday night will be to update the curators on the weekend's developments. Alden also says he wants to know what Texas is going to do before deciding what Missouri will do.

[timmynausea]

The Heupel thing is actually a couple days old and has been shot down a bunch. It does seem like the SEC tried (or is trying) to get Oklahoma, but the AD has said repeatedly that they will follow Texas.

[Solecismic]

None of that matters. Texas is the only domino to watch right now.

[timmynausea]

There's another new story saying that A&M doesn't have an SEC offer. Seems like there has to be misinformation going on one way or the other.

Austin sports news and Longhorns | Statesman.com

I also saw this tidbit about SEC expansion on ESPN, which could be a verification that there's a group of schools working together to block instate rivals. The part about not raiding the ACC would be new:

As for other options for the SEC, a source familiar with the SEC's plans told ESPN on Saturday the SEC does not plan to consider adding Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State or Miami. The source saw no way the SEC would raid the ACC and added serious doubt that Virginia Tech could be pried away from Virginia. The source also dismissed the idea the SEC would go after Kansas, although a Kansas source said that would be a preference for the Jayhawks.

Texas Longhorns athletic director DeLoss Dodds says school still looking at 'all options' - ESPN

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

There's another new story saying that A&M doesn't have an SEC offer. Seems like there has to be misinformation going on one way or the other.

Austin sports news and Longhorns | Statesman.com

I also saw this tidbit about SEC expansion on ESPN, which could be a verification that there's a group of schools working together to block instate rivals. The part about not raiding the ACC would be new:



Texas Longhorns athletic director DeLoss Dodds says school still looking at 'all options' - ESPN

I linked to that last night and its been pretty thoroughly discredited. A&M has an unconditional offer, it is just not a formal one. When A&M votes to make the move, the formal offer will be extended. This should happen Monday.

[MJ4H]

apparently Mike Slive is meeting with Gene Stallings and Jackie Sherrill in College Station right now

[MJ4H]

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I linked to that last night and its been pretty thoroughly discredited. A&M has an unconditional offer, it is just not a formal one. When A&M votes to make the move, the formal offer will be extended. This should happen Monday.

It's actually a different article with many references to a discussion from "Saturday afternoon" about this. This one is by Kirk Bohls, whom I believe you quoted a tweet or two from last night. But I do think that something doesn't seem right about it. Too much smoke to merely be a contingent offer.

[MJ4H]

Yeah I know it's a different article, but it's the same discredited topic. There's just no way it's true.

[MJ4H]

LSU Rivals Site has this right now:

A&M About to be Officaly Invited Saturday 6/12/10 @ 3:00 PM (Posted on 6/12/10 at 4:19 p.m.)

I have several close family members who are fairly high up within the 12th man foundation @ A&M here in college station and Mike Slive the SEC commish was seen on campus early this afternoon....confirmed

There are a million rumors out there and I really dont want to add "another" one onto the pile, but....

I have first hand knowledge that Mike was in college station this morning, and will be making an official offer to Texas A&M this afternoon.

Does that mean A&M will accept? I am not going to BS anybody and say "yes" 100% but I am also not going to spew out some random unsubstantiated rumor like Kirk Bohols or chip Brown and lie to people either.

The fact that the offer is actually in place is the first step I personally hope this thing gets wrapped up the middle part of next week.

The SEC is the best conference in college football and I along with the majority of the Texas A&M fan base would love to join you guys in the future, so I hope the 12th man board of regents and boosters agree to this b/c I think this is a great thing that is about to happen.

[Swaggs]

Kind of interesting -- if Texas and Oklahoma end up in the Pac 10 or SEC and Notre Dame stays independent (both of which seem pretty likely), won't this expansion process be a failure from the Big Ten's perspective?

[RedKingGold]

Not really. Although everyone thinks the Big Ten had Texas ahead of Nebraska, I'm not sure that was the case. I get the feeling that Notre Dame was (and is still) #1, with Texas/Nebraska being 1(a) or 1(b).

The Big Ten has an "island" impression of itself (a "we don't care what you think about us mentality."). Wouldn't surprise me if they found Nebraska attractive for many of the same reasons it found Penn State attractive in 1991 (biggest college program in the state, rabid fan base, strong tradition, solid academic base).

Also, I'm not so sure that the Big Ten is all about the Super 16-team conference as people think they are. I don't think they want more than 14 teams max unless every other conference goes to 16 and forces their hand.

The only real regret would be if Notre Dame got away. That would be a problem.

I believe the Big Ten will stand pat for now and Texas will go to the Pac-10. If Notre Dame becomes available, they will add them and perhaps another team (Rutgers, Missouri, Maryland, etc.) But I really don't see 16 for them.

[timmynausea]

Population of Texas - 24,782,302
Population of Pennsylvania - 12,604,767
Population of Nebraska - 1,796,619

Nebraska is a strong brand name and a good addition and all, but they're nowhere near Texas or Penn State in terms of bringing value to the conference.