WW Amazing Race - Game Over (Moles Win & Team Reebok Wins)

[JAG]

Thanks EF, the talk after death mechanism was an interesting one and the race was entertaining as well. Good game.

[mauchow]

When cf quickly voted PF last night/this morning, I got somewhat nervous his vote would be viewed as suspicious, but just kept my fingers crossed on a quiet day. No doubt things would have been different if Danny were still around. There would have been more scrutiny, I think. Maybe not though.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Autumn

The balance seemed fine, EF.

What happened with the night 1 kill?

Lathum did block us.

[mauchow]

I enjoyed the race as well. It took me a few legs to get used to it so I was kind of upset that I screwed up the first few legs to a certain degree. But yeah, fun stuff.

[Autumn]

The race worked just right. I know with Survivor I think I made the mechanics too complicated, and it felt too opaque to people. I liked knowing which talents were needed, yet having the randomness of rolls and effort.

[JAG]

For those wondering, the bonus day kill was because a roled player was eliminated from the race and night-killed together (I believe).

The reason we didn't go after Lathum N2 or N3 is because the BG could block the same target multiple nights in a row and didn't want to throw away another kill when it was likely he was going to continue to self-block.

[CrimsonFox]

The thing is mau, half the time we've gotten vibes about people's comments or voting ort whatever they ended up being wrong. People did things for unusual reasons. Also this had a lot of lemming activity this game. One person does something and everyone follows. With that, cougar kinda blended in. I did notice today that he was following on hoops' votes a couple times. But that could mean anything. COulda been packer. Coulda been chief. coulda been a lot of people. ntn sure got a LOT of votes from villagers this game.

[Autumn]

Oh that's right, the bonus, that's what I was wondering about.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Autumn

The balance seemed fine, EF.

What happened with the night 1 kill?

There was talk about a couple people that day but the only person that they mentioned as a kill was Lathum. I had to look back through several of their PM's to find that.

There was so much other oh **** confusion going on with MartinD and the mau "reveal" (which was not compounded by the MartinD issue) that they stopped discussing the night kill and were talking damage control.

My take on it at least.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

When cf quickly voted PF last night/this morning, I gosomewhat nervous his vote would be viewed as suspicious, but just kept my fingers crossed on a quiet day. No doubt things would have been different if Danny were still around. There would have been more scrutiny, I think. Maybe not though.

I thought about that too, but I wasn't sire how much I was going to be on today, I had to stay home with two sick toddlers. If anyone brought it up I was just going to.refer to my big vote on mau, and being in early on Pass, and I figured that would carry me.

[CrimsonFox]

I'd pay money to read those posts.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Oh that's right, the bonus, that's what I was wondering about.

They didn;t know about the bonus until it was triggered.

I had two of them (of which they could earn the first one which was achieved).

Roled player being eliminated from the game via race loss and night kill on the same day yielded the unblockable. I thought this was not going to happen but Darth's team had really bad luck with their rolls that leg.

The other would have been a nonus night kill (with the same rules as a regular night kill) if the first person totally eliminated was a villager.

I figured that I needed to give them something a little extra as the talk after death rule could have been a rough one for them.

[Autumn]

Yeah, seems fair. If the seer was killed but could still talk, that would make a big break for the village.

[EagleFan]

Oh, for how the race worked.

For each leg I had the following parts:

1st travel - to the first challenge
roadblock
2nd travel - to the next challenge
detour
3rd travel - to the pitstop

For each of the sections I had a base time assigned.

From there I put skills and effort into the formula for the roll to determine an adjusted factor to the amount for that stage.

I then would apply the X-factor based on how much detail each team submitted. There were some bonuses in the details as well (like knowing that flying to The Falklands would be a huge risk).

The final factor would be the aggression. It would add time to a team that it was used against or remove some time from a team it was used for.


I tried to emphasize that details could help the most (I hope I got that across). I wanted to give teams a chance to make up for not having a certain skill by going over and above in the details.


The final leg added that other challenge and one moer travel phase.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I'd pay money to read those posts.

I was out from that afternoon until early the next morning. Can you imagine feeling what I did when I came back and saw the thread had completely blown up? (not to mention the PMs) I thought mau would get called out immediately for not revealing his seer target before he left the thread after N1, so I think I told him to go in the thread and post that he scanned Chief Rum and that he was cleared. I picked him because he had some votes on him D1 and figured he would be logical, but I got mau in more trouble with that idea. I hadn't thought about scanning his partner, which was a good move by Darth as it turned out.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Lathum did block us.

He did? I thought we forgot to submit a kill.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

There was talk about a couple people that day but the only person that they mentioned as a kill was Lathum. I had to look back through several of their PM's to find that.

There was so much other oh **** confusion going on with MartinD and the mau "reveal" (which was not compounded by the MartinD issue) that they stopped discussing the night kill and were talking damage control.

My take on it at least.

Funny thing about that -- a little bit before this game, I re-read the Olympics game you ran, in which I was also a wolf. We forgot to make a kill the first night, then, too, and it caused a lot of confusion. Funny how pretty much the same thing happened this time. Not that I'm saying no kill was the right move, just funny. I think I was out that night for my birthday (though past history obviously suggests that I have it in me to blank on the kill).

Great game, EF, thanks!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

He did? I thought we forgot to submit a kill.

He blocked you (but as it turned out the end result was the same).

The only person that you had put up for kill was Lathum earlier before the mess started. While you never submitted a "night kill" PM I went back through to see what you had done and you had put him up as the night kill (by you I mean the wolves, can't remember which one started it).

Gave you guys the talked to him but he wouldn't listen to you result PM on that one.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Funny thing about that -- a little bit before this game, I re-read the Olympics game you ran, in which I was also a wolf. We forgot to make a kill the first night, then, too, and it caused a lot of confusion. Funny how pretty much the same thing happened this time. Not that I'm saying no kill was the right move, just funny. I think I was out that night for my birthday (though past history obviously suggests that I have it in me to blank on the kill).

Great game, EF, thanks!

What is it with wolves not submitting kills when I run a game? That happened in the 42 attempts game too but in that one the night kill that was not sent was one that would have ended the game.

If I remember correctly hoops was involved in that one (not as the wolf involved).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What is it with wolves not submitting kills when I run a game? That happened in the 42 attempts game too but in that one the night kill that was not sent was one that would have ended the game.

If I remember correctly hoops was involved in that one (not as the wolf involved).

Those were my thoughts pretty much, too. Something like, "What the hell is wrong with EF that I keep forgetting to submit a night kill in his games? It must be something about the way he runs them...."

[CrimsonFox]

LOL

[Chief Rum]

Good game, moles.

So I have seen bits and pieces, but I would like to see a wolf pretty much paint a picture of what happened I'm the wolves' war room the first three days. Mau's reveal, what happened with Martin, how much thought went into picking me for the "scan", mau's reveal again on Day 3. Etc.

[MartinD]

Thanks for running the game, EF, and sorry for causing all the fun and games on Day 1 with my screwup - you made the right call to allow saldana to reveal that I was a wolf in-thread. I also need to apologise to saldana, as my mistake basically ruined his side of the race part of the game right from the start - it didn't help that I wasn't sure what I was allowed to do after being lynched (even if I could still post in-thread and help out with the race, there was a good chance that people would think that I was only doing it to help the wolves, and I didn't want to take the risk of making another mistake and messing the game up even more...)

Pass/JAG/cougarfreak - good job of getting yourselves out of a big hole at the start of the game (particularly cougarfreak, who played the last few days pretty much perfectly).

[Zinto]

Awesome game EF, even though I didn't get to enjoy the race very much.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Good game, moles.

So I have seen bits and pieces, but I would like to see a wolf pretty much paint a picture of what happened I'm the wolves' war room the first three days. Mau's reveal, what happened with Martin, how much thought went into picking me for the "scan", mau's reveal again on Day 3. Etc.

I can't say much about it, since I was not really following the game much for the first three days (Danny and Autumn were right to wonder about that). I feel like for both cases, we basically left them on their own. I missed the entire Martin thing, but with mau, we definitely weren't as interested in saving him as we were in finding out who was trying to cast doubt on it without explicitly revealing as the seer. It was pretty funny, though, to see everyone go on about how stupid the wolves were for not killing Lathum, then take it back once we got DV! Granted, we knew that Lathum was lying when he said he couldn't protect himself the next day. At least, when we asked EF if that was the case, he said we didn't know.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think Packer should have argued his case more. This isn't the stage of the game to go quietly as a villager. It would have been hard to sway anyone, we really didn't have anything to go on. but it might have forced the others to respond at least. I find that the vibe from posts digs up wolves more often than a voting record.

I had tried in the morning, then I got busy in the afternoon and wasn't able to jump back on before deadline. It seemed that everyone was pretty hard set on voting me anyway, even though I did about as much as cougar did to paint myself as wolf - which is why I had my doubts on him in the first place. I guess that is why he wasn't nearly as talkative in the race portion for our team

Speaking of the race portion - unless I missed it, EF, can you explain what the heck happened on the day we were eliminated? Did someone use a bunch of aggression against us or something?

I do apologize to my villager teammates...I didn't do much to help my cause as a villager (and it usually doesn't take much to begin with), so for that I apologize.

[Autumn]

I wasn't trying to get on you or anything, PF, just thinking more in a metagame sense - sometimes we get worn down and defeated at the end of the game, especially if the voting seems set. continuing to argue can at least force the last wolf to have to say something, maybe defend himself, shift things around a bit. Whereas early in the game I think it doesn't make as much sense to argue your case too much.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Speaking of the race portion - unless I missed it, EF, can you explain what the heck happened on the day we were eliminated? Did someone use a bunch of aggression against us or something?

The devil is in the details...

You specifically detailed how you were going straight to Pondicherry after you arrived at Chennai. I had to add time to you for that but it did couple with aggression against you that day making it worse. I wasn't going to penalize you by having you go all the way there (it is at least a 3 hour trip just one way and that is with a good driver taking you) but with the penalty and other rolls you ended up in last anyway so I thought it would make a better writeup to have you go all the way there.

[The Jackal]

Fun game EF.

BTW that hijacking was all Lathum's idea. I was completely on board with it though, haha.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Fun game EF.

BTW that hijacking was all Lathum's idea. I was completely on board with it though, haha.

That was great. I knew I was going to have fun with that write up... I just couldn't have him killing Phil though...

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The devil is in the details...

You specifically detailed how you were going straight to Pondicherry after you arrived at Chennai. I had to add time to you for that but it did couple with aggression against you that day making it worse. I wasn't going to penalize you by having you go all the way there (it is at least a 3 hour trip just one way and that is with a good driver taking you) but with the penalty and other rolls you ended up in last anyway so I thought it would make a better writeup to have you go all the way there.

Son of a...

I figured that had something to do with it, but you never did specify exactly when the detour or roadblock happened. Oh well

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I do apologize to my villager teammates...I didn't do much to help my cause as a villager (and it usually doesn't take much to begin with), so for that I apologize.

What did it for me I think was how quick you brought up a case against hoops at the end and then immediately switched to accusing ntndeacon. THose two were the two that were obviously villagers. I think if you had mounted a campaign against cougar a couple days earlier I would have definitely supported that as I had spidey sense about him early in the game, just no proof and absolutely no read on you.

What I'm curious of is did you have ANY doubts about cougar based on PM interaction as your teammate? I felt that we really were unlucky having you two be partners at the end because we couldn't get info that was useful based on that because whoever the wolf was was obviously going to lie.

[CrimsonFox]

And the fun question...

what names did you call Martin?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

And the fun question...

what names did you call Martin?

Probably not a big surprise, but I think he was more upset about it than we were. I just chalked it up to bad luck myself. In the end it sort of worked out because there was confusion over interpreting the day 1 voting with him putting the third vote on Mau when both were revealed as wolves. I think hoops had a good post to that effect the day I was lynched.

[PackerFanatic]

Truthfully (regarding cougar being my partner), no, I had no inklings that he might be a wolf. As I said, he was fairly quiet for the most part, so the little he did say I didn't read much into. I would guess after the Martin fiasco, the other wolves were as tight-lipped as possible with their non-wolf partners

And yeah - I know my jumping around late yesterday certainly didn't help. I vow to play a lot better next time around

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by JAG

Probably not a big surprise, but I think he was more upset about it than we were. I just chalked it up to bad luck myself. In the end it sort of worked out because there was confusion over interpreting the day 1 voting with him putting the third vote on Mau when both were revealed as wolves. I think hoops had a good post to that effect the day I was lynched.

It did seem to me that the other wolves took it pretty well - the reaction was along the lines of 'OK, nothing we can do about this now, so let's just get on with the game'. (They also had bigger things to worry about, most notably what to do about Lathum when it wasn't clear if the bodyguard could guard someone on consecutive nights...)

I was in a bit of a tricky spot with my vote on Day 1, because the three players 'on the block' at the time were two wolves (mauboy and JAG) and one villager (Chief Rum), and I don't see much point in hiding my vote at that point. There's often a lot of value (usually coming out later on) in a wolf voting for a wolf - day 1 is an obvious time to do it, but it can really pay off later on in the game (see cougarfreak's votes for Pass near the end).

[Lathum]

So EF, you told the wolves I could block in consecutive nights?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So EF, you told the wolves I could block in consecutive nights?

Not in so many words (I do believe I dropped the ball a little on that one).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Not in so many words (I do believe I dropped the ball a little on that one).

well clearly they knew somehow, and I didn't tell anyone

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well clearly they knew somehow, and I didn't tell anyone

Jackal probably told them, when he ordered that kill on you...

[Darth Vilus]

FWIW the night i was killed I scanned JAG and i was planning on scanning cougar the next day. Oh well, that's how it goes lol

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So EF, you told the wolves I could block in consecutive nights?

It was more that we saw the role description (below), and noticed that it didn't say that the bodyguard couldn't block the same person on consecutive nights.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Promotion Specialist - The promotion specialist knows how to promote the show and how to get everyone pumped up about the show. The promotion specialist may select one patron each night to promote the show's qualities to. If the player that he has chosen is not a mole and is the target of the moles that night the player will not be talked into giving up on the show and will continue to play with all of their abilities (bodyguard).

If I remember correctly, the discussion was along the lines of 'Well, if it's possible for Lathum to continue to protect himself, we're probably as well to make sure that we kill someone by looking somewhere else', which quickly led on to 'let's go seer hunting...' (We did check this with EF, who didn't explicitly confirm the multiple nights' blocking ability, but couldn't deny it either.)

(The timing of the unblockable kill becoming available was very useful! )

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well clearly they knew somehow, and I didn't tell anyone

We asked him, and he said we didn't know. So it didn't seem worthwhile to go after you when there were possible seers out there, especially since the Vegas game taught us that you really like protecting yourself, and we at least knew there was a chance you could. Then when we got that unblockable kill, we figured we might as well use it on you then, since it could have been our only chance to get you (and the seer was gone, anyway).