Soccer Thread 2011-2012

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

So, anyone want to complain Spain is boring?

+1

[whomario]

They were boring in the games prior. Of course they aren´t today, but that doesn´t change much for the other games, does it ?

Cassillas is having a nice game, propably had to save more shots and crosses than in the 5 games prior combined allready.

Italy isn´t having a bad game at all, just outplayed in those 2 situations and couldn´t make their own chances count. Balotelli needs to serioulsy quicking up his "thought process", every ball he gets today he needs a second or 2 to decide what to do with it

[whomario]

what kind of stupid substitution is that ??? Taking out an offensive midfielder for a more defensive one, down 0-2 in the final ??? Taking your last sub with 35 minutes to go as well ?

[whomario]

and now Motta seems injured, that´s just unreal ...

[MIJB#19]

wow, down to 10 men with 30 mins to go...

[Crapshoot]

Well, this would be the greatest comeback in history if Italy managed it.

[Grover]

Italy starting to go down way too quickly.

[bob]

I keep seeing the whole "Spain is seeking to be the first team to win three major cup finals" thing - is the Confederations Cup not a major cup? It is an international competition.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by whomario

They were boring in the games prior. Of course they aren´t today, but that doesn´t change much for the other games, does it ?

Agreed. Until now they didn't just field a 4-6-0 or 4-51, they also played like a 4-6-0 or 4-5-1, Today, they play their 4-6-0 more like a 4-3-3.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by bob

I keep seeing the whole "Spain is seeking to be the first team to win three major cup finals" thing - is the Confederations Cup not a major cup? It is an international competition.

It is not a major cup. It's pretty much a friendly tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Huh? Ball possession is 50-50? Surely doesn't feel that way.

[Grover]

Nandooooooo

[whomario]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Huh? Ball possession is 50-50? Surely doesn't feel that way.

especially since uefa.com also claims that spain has 44 "attacks" to Italy´s 21.

No way that 50/50 number is correct.

[kingfc22]

How long into the post game recap until the discussion turns to "Is Spain the the favorites for 2014?

[Izulde]

Man, Torres made that Italian goalie look silly twice.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Man, Torres made that Italian defense look non-existent.

fixed.

[Grover]

I think Torres is going to be a force in the Prem next year, especially with Mata and Hazard behind him.

Renaissance.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by bob

I keep seeing the whole "Spain is seeking to be the first team to win three major cup finals" thing - is the Confederations Cup not a major cup? It is an international competition.

No.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

How long into the post game recap until the discussion turns to "Is Spain the the favorites for 2014?

I think playing at home Brazil would be favorites, but I bet Spain comes close.

William Hill currently has Brazil as favorites: World Cup 2014 - Tournament Winner betting odds | World Cup 2014 International Football | William Hill

[Big Fo]

Well that was disappointing. Without going down to ten men I don't think it'd have ended up being 4-0 but I don't think Italy would have gotten to 2-2 either. Spain is simply the best international team around at the moment and it's not close.

Even though they lost today it's still nice to see Italy back as contenders after the 2010 debacle. Hopefully some of the younger guys continue to impress and just maybe Pirlo and Buffon can make one more big tournament.

Now we have a boring 6-7 weeks before the European leagues start up again with nothing but mostly bullshit transfer rumors to sustain us. FWIW I watch some MLS but with over half the league making the playoffs and playoff seeding not mattering for much at all, I don't watch too much of it before the playoffs. At least there's baseball and this is an Olympic year.

[Crapshoot]

I love transfer rumors. Like trade rumors, it appeals to the nerd in me (hell , all of us amateur managers / GM's).

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I love transfer rumors. Like trade rumors, it appeals to the nerd in me (hell , all of us amateur managers / GM's).

Same. I don't care how absurd they are. I love going to F365 every morning and reading the transfer gossip and blog.

[DaddyTorgo]

Jeezus Christ Italy. At least fucking show up hmm? That was fucking pathetic, all around.

I mean sure...going down to 10 didn't help (nor did 2 in-game injuries, which of which forced a sub being burnt early), but of the 2 first half goals when the game was still in the balance, the first one really SHOULD have been better defended and not a goal.

And how about some fucking shots from inside the 18 / somebody following the shots in hmm? Jeezus.

Give them a pass for what happened once they were down to 10, but they really didn't look into the game at all except from like...minute 20-41 (when Spain scored their 2nd). Was just hoping for them to get to halftime down 1-0 and regroup...2-0 there was no way they were going to regroup and win.

[whomario]

Di Natele also had 2 clear cut chances shortly after half time.

Italy had more chances and dangerous crosses than any other team had against spain, just had the bad luck that spain executed two amazing attacks and went into the seams with deadly precicion.

Up until going down to 10 men (and from then on, there was no chance in hell) it could have just as much have been Italy being up.

[Marc Vaughan]

Darn EURO 2012 is over, got to wait 4 days now for the Europa league qualifiers to start .....

[ISiddiqui]

Wow, Spain looked impressive today. When they actually attack they look amazing. And DT, I think you may be the ONLY person who thought Italy didn't show up. They played some very good attacking football until they dropped to 10 men.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wow, Spain looked impressive today. When they actually attack they look amazing. And DT, I think you may be the ONLY person who thought Italy didn't show up. They played some very good attacking football until they dropped to 10 men.

"". Im not sure what DT was expecting; Spain are that good. Italy, to their credit figured they would attack rather than sit back; Spain used that to tear them apart. This may be. The greatest side the world has ever seen against an Italian side that no had going this far- really, it's hard to complain. Now it's fascinating to see what happens next for Spain.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wow, Spain looked impressive today. When they actually attack they look amazing. And DT, I think you may be the ONLY person who thought Italy didn't show up. They played some very good attacking football until they dropped to 10 men.

I thought they were very good for the middle period of the first half - they had some nice attacking opportunities, unfortunately everything was from a distance mostly and nobody followed in the shots. That was maybe the first half of the game in total. To be honest, once they went down 2-0 though my attention was elsewhere (my mother called during halftime and we spent the first 15-20 mins of the 2nd half with the game on mute trying to help her with some car-buying information, true-value pricing, total cost of ownership, etc.)

By the time we turned our attention back to the game I thought they looked tired and were unable to keep any sort of possession.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

may be. The greatest side the world has ever seen.

Oh god...seriously? Don't fall into this cheap-o announcing BS where everything happening now is "THE GREATEST EVER...OMG!!!" because they're too lazy to actually say anything insightful.

Are they good...yeah. Are they the greatest ever?? I submit that Pele's Brazil sides would absolutely tear them to pieces. For that matter, the 90's Brazillian teams (Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, etc.) would overwhelm them too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

"". Im not sure what DT was expecting; Spain are that good. Italy, to their credit figured they would attack rather than sit back; Spain used that to tear them apart. This may be. The greatest side the world has ever seen against an Italian side that no had going this far- really, it's hard to complain. Now it's fascinating to see what happens next for Spain.

They're not that good. The two sides drew 1-1 in their group game, and Italy looked a hell of a lot better than they did yesterday.Not sure why Prandelli felt that the wise thing to do was to come out with a more attacking gameplan yesterday - the gameplan from the first game worked great.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

They're not that good. The two sides drew 1-1 in their group game, and Italy looked a hell of a lot better than they did yesterday.Not sure why Prandelli felt that the wise thing to do was to come out with a more attacking gameplan yesterday - the gameplan from the first game worked great.

Spain kind of played a completely different game plan - a far more attacking style they started to play in extra time vs. Portugal. It was like it took them a while to realize how they could be in attack mode without David Villa up front.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Oh god...seriously? Don't fall into this cheap-o announcing BS where everything happening now is "THE GREATEST EVER...OMG!!!" because they're too lazy to actually say anything insightful.

Are they good...yeah. Are they the greatest ever?? I submit that Pele's Brazil sides would absolutely tear them to pieces. For that matter, the 90's Brazillian teams (Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, etc.) would overwhelm them too.

Come on DT, you can´t be serious here. First off the narative hasn´t been like that, at all in the past few weeks. Spain looked beatable and was proclaimed "not hungry enough" and still no team actually came all that close to beating them. Yes, teams hung with them but did anybody with soccer knowledge (and who wasn´t an anouncer trying to stir up excitement) ever get the feeling they´d loose ?


And seriously, a team from the 60s would tear Spain to pieces ? A team of semi professional athletes ? You put the Pele teams in a time machine to today and Spain beats them 10-0 without even breaking a sweat. Xaxi would pass for a great athlete in their time and a guy like Arbeloa would be considered a star on the ball, the difference due to training and equipment advances is just staggering resulting in even the slowest pace Spain would play (or even wha a team like Greece plays against lesser opponents) looking fast and fluid compared to what passed as attacking football in the 60s.

And just judging within the respective era, fact is that no team ever won 3 titles like that. Spain also hasn´t conceded a single goal in Knockout play in that time frame.
The combination of attacking prowess, technique and defensive stability is pretty unique in history.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Spain kind of played a completely different game plan - a far more attacking style they started to play in extra time vs. Portugal. It was like it took them a while to realize how they could be in attack mode without David Villa up front.

Maybe that's part of it I suppose.

I thought Marchisio + DeRossi didn't track back enough and pick up the deep-runs from the Spanish MCs...I thought defensively some of the marking by Barzagli and Bonucci was suspect. Silva's first goal for instance...no way Spain should have got that cross off, and even if they did, (I think it was Barzagli if I remember clearly)'s marking was for shit.There wasn't enough ball-pressure in the final third of the field by the Italians defensively IMO. Different than the group-stage game.

And frankly I think they played better during the points in the game where they pressured Spain further up the field and caused turnovers, and were then able to build some possession.

[whomario]

I must admit that i was surprised that Italy didn´t go back to the 3-5-2 (which i think they changed to 4-4-2 only due to Chiellini´s injury), anybody know of a reasoning for that ?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

I must admit that i was surprised that Italy didn´t go back to the 3-5-2 (which i think they changed to 4-4-2 only due to Chiellini´s injury), anybody know of a reasoning for that ?

Stupidity?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Maybe that's part of it I suppose.

I thought Marchisio + DeRossi didn't track back enough and pick up the deep-runs from the Spanish MCs...I thought defensively some of the marking by Barzagli and Bonucci was suspect. Silva's first goal for instance...no way Spain should have got that cross off, and even if they did, (I think it was Barzagli if I remember clearly)'s marking was for shit.There wasn't enough ball-pressure in the final third of the field by the Italians defensively IMO. Different than the group-stage game.

And frankly I think they played better during the points in the game where they pressured Spain further up the field and caused turnovers, and were then able to build some possession.

Spain, when they are on, can make anyone look foolish. Also remember that Italy is a different squad from the first match as well. They've gotten this far on the basis of an attacking mentality. That's how they dispatched England (well, that and penalty kicks, but they were definitely the better side that day) and Germany. So they went with what worked rather than go back to a defensive first mindset.

I do think that if Italy hadn't gone down to 10, the final score would have been 2-1 (though no worse than 2-0).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Spain, when they are on, can make anyone look foolish. Also remember that Italy is a different squad from the first match as well. They've gotten this far on the basis of an attacking mentality. That's how they dispatched England (well, that and penalty kicks, but they were definitely the better side that day) and Germany. So they went with what worked rather than go back to a defensive first mindset.

I do think that if Italy hadn't gone down to 10, the final score would have been 2-1 (though no worse than 2-0).

Fair enough.

I try not to look @ the final scoreline as indicative of anything...like I said...in my mind the game was essentially a 2-0 loss "at even strength." The record books won't show it that way, but I'm comfortable saying that, as I agree with you that it would have likely finished 2-0.

Still...overall...a good tournament for the Azzurri. Taking out England and Germany was very positive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sharing the link since I figure the name will be of interest
Silverbacks hire Wynalda as interim coach *| ajc.com