WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Seems like a long time ;-) WAht day did you reveal? It's two nights, right?

I won't lie, it was like 20 pages ago...lol. It was after the Mauboy scan. I officially announced yesterday at 12:52 pm, #1813

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I still am not 100% sold. You said you were pondering lying about it, that is ludicrous. Not to mention if you are a wolf it greatly helps out your case.

So I admitted that I thought about lying for a day about my scan so therefore I must be a wolf? Nevermind that the only way you know about it is because I mentioned it. As a wolf, I have zero incentive to do that

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yeah that doesn't seem like a good explanation to me. Waiting to reveal a scan until you get votes ... why would you do that unless you wanted to use your scan to defend yourself? I can't figure out why Narc, in that case, but I also can't figure out why the seer would be holding onto a scan for defensive purposes.

I believe if he is bad, he picks Narc because he:

1. Knows he is a wolf
2. Has a bad voting record
3. Hasn't been on a ton
4. Has some people thinking he is a wolf already
5. Most importantly, buys him trust that he is the Seer and still good.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I won't lie, it was like 20 pages ago...lol. It was after the Mauboy scan. I officially announced yesterday at 12:52 pm, #1813

Wow, really, only 24 hours ago? lol, this game is hilarious. So last night was your first night outed? Huh.

[MrBug708]

Did anyone have Narcizo as a wolf previously? I dont recall much talk about him at all.

As for bad voting record, a case could be made for pretty much everyone.

And why do you keep harping the fact that I might not be the Seer? I dont think anyone really doubts it. Yesterday it was I had to be corrupted as the Seer, there was no other way around it. Today it's "I might not even be the Seer".

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I would have liked to have seen where early votes went on and who cast them. It might not be the best course of action, but what do we learn when I announce my scan at 1130pm last night and everyone votes with me? Wasted day of voting.

It did lure out EF into make a proclamation, even if it was about me in a role that I already am. I will admit that I didn't think that would happen and in that exact scenario, but that is hindsight now

The thing is we don't know exactly EF revealed, just the he found a convert last night and it likely was you, which it could be.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Wow, really, only 24 hours ago? lol, this game is hilarious. So last night was your first night outed? Huh.

Depending on the wolves, they probably suspected a day before. I highly doubt they thought I was the Seer until at least halfway through day 2

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

The thing is we don't know exactly EF revealed, just the he found a convert last night and it likely was you, which it could be.

You seem to not be bothered that much by EF's reveal.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Depending on the wolves, they probably suspected a day before. I highly doubt they thought I was the Seer until at least halfway through day 2

Yeah, maybe when you hinted about Jackal, that night they might have tried converting. But certainly last night they would try.

[MrBug708]

Alright, off to Disneyland for the Day. I would prefer a Narizco vote for obvious reasons. I'm hoping Narizco is a main wolf, but anything is better than nothing. If it went EF first and we saved Narizco for another day, I won't cry either.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So I admitted that I thought about lying for a day about my scan so therefore I must be a wolf? Nevermind that the only way you know about it is because I mentioned it. As a wolf, I have zero incentive to do that

You don't have a reason, but why consider lying at all really, you can be protected. As for the reason, maybe you slipped or thought it would be to your benefit and it turned out to be the wrong move.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did anyone have Narcizo as a wolf previously? I dont recall much talk about him at all.

Me either, which is why I find it a very odd scan. If he had turned up good and we'd been left trying to pick still between EF and Chief I would have been super annoyed, tbh.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

You don't have a reason, but why consider lying at all really, you can be protected. As for the reason, maybe you slipped or thought it would be to your benefit and it turned out to be the wrong move.

I dont think you are too interested in seeing the BG try and protect me tonight

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did anyone have Narcizo as a wolf previously? I dont recall much talk about him at all.

As for bad voting record, a case could be made for pretty much everyone.

And why do you keep harping the fact that I might not be the Seer? I dont think anyone really doubts it. Yesterday it was I had to be corrupted as the Seer, there was no other way around it. Today it's "I might not even be the Seer".

I had mentioned it a few days ago, and Narc even has been admitting it for the past few days.

That is true, but Narcs is probably the worst.

I keep harping because you might not be and are doing / saying really strange things. It leads me to believe you are a wolf now. As for yesterday I was stating you might not have ever been the seer either. I've been saying this entire time that I think it is possible you are a wolf now either through corruption or an original and that the seer, either you or someone else, was converted and gave you the chance to come out as the seer. My stance has not really changed.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

You seem to not be bothered that much by EF's reveal.

I have some ideas, but I'm not going to throw them out there to give him them until we find out what he says.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Alright, off to Disneyland for the Day. I would prefer a Narizco vote for obvious reasons. I'm hoping Narizco is a main wolf, but anything is better than nothing. If it went EF first and we saved Narizco for another day, I won't cry either.

I'm not sold on EF, but if we have a supposed wolf we would be fools to at least not vote them out.

[Abe Sargent]

Three people in the last hour have pm'ed me the same question so I am answering this rules question out here in the thread:

Items can be passed only at night. They can only be passed once per item, but a person with multiple items may pass each if they wish.

[Commo_Soldier]

dola, sold as in he is a villager.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Three people in the last hour have pm'ed me the same question so I am answering this rules question out here in the thread:

Items can be passed only at night. They can only be passed once per item, but a person with multiple items may pass each if they wish.

Ok, I know I was wondering that when the rules stated once per night.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

To me if it does come up as Bug becoming a wolf you are the next person I lynch.

It would be pretty dumb for me to defend bug so strongly if we were both wolves, convert or not

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think you are too interested in seeing the BG try and protect me tonight

I wasn't when I thought the minister had revealed, but since that is not the case we can either protect the Martyr, Scientist, or Seer. While you may not be good, I'd rather take my chances and see what comes for another few days.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

It would be pretty dumb for me to defend bug so strongly if we were both wolves, convert or not

It would be, but who knows.

[The Jackal]

I don't really follow the logic of suggesting the sheriff not protect bug when he would have no idea who the real seer would be, if they are still out there (which at this point it really doesn't look like it or I would think they would have countered already/may have been converted early).

If DZ was still alive, sure, but why would you suggest giving the wolves a free shot at the seer? I know you are leaning on the side of thinking he isn't the seer, but sacrificing him because of some doubts when there's no strong reveal (until we hear what EF has to say) would be a pretty foolish move.

[The Jackal]

Now I'm of the opinion that bug would've been a great conversion target since he revealed, so we have to keep that in mind, but it seems other people were thinking the conversions had to be done earlier than last night. Hard to speculate on that mechanic.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I believe if he is bad, he picks Narc because he:

1. Knows he is a wolf
2. Has a bad voting record
3. Hasn't been on a ton
4. Has some people thinking he is a wolf already
5. Most importantly, buys him trust that he is the Seer and still good.

It doesn't make any sense for him to buy trust as a converted seer though. If we lynch Narcizo and find out he's bad the only thing we know is that we could trust Bug yesterday. Even if he gives us Narcizo I don't think there's anyway Bug isn't the lynch target if he's still alive on Tuesday

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I still am not 100% sold. You said you were pondering lying about it, that is ludicrous. Not to mention if you are a wolf it greatly helps out your case.



I'm not sure if we lynch him though, I kind of want to to end speculation and get a voting history for who voted for him and who not. I'm curious though why I've mentioned you being the minister and BGing you at night, but you have not corrected me. I just went back to see who was the minister and I misread that you were the Martyr and we were speculating a minister was in the game. That changes everything for who to BG, the obvious choice that DZ is dead now is Bug.

I didn't notice you saying I was the minister.

Voting Bug today when we have two good candidates in EF and Narc is a bad play. Even though he could be bad there's no way we should risk killing the seer for the wolves. If we lynch Narc worst case scenario is we find out he's good we learn Bug is compromised and get him tomorrow. I still think it would be a terrible move for Bug to give up a wolf as a converted seer, if Bug is converted and gave us Narc that's awesome, we'll end up lynching Bug by Tuesday and we'll have gotten wolves two out of three days.

If there is a wolf who's giving us another wolf to buy trust today to buy trust it's probably EF if they converted Bug yesterday.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I understand where you're coming from. I was of more than half a mind to pass yours back to you, along with mine, as kind of a mutual gesture. In the end, I decided the potential protective benefits would be of more use to those needing protecting. So I tried to pass a bat to Lathum on Night Two, and then Danny on Night Three. Both nights, they were killed before my item could get to them, so the item was never passed.

Thomkal was the first person I succeeded in passing a bat to. And I passed a sprig of holly to Commo, although I have no idea what it could do. It could be some sort of Christmas reference, a protection from evil. Or it could be a reference to the holly being one of the most caffeine filled plants in the world (maybe a bonus to attack or anything speed related). Or it could be a soothsayer tool, as some types of holly have a truth serum type of ingredient in them. But that's just looking at wikipedia--if I had to guess, Abe's use of it in this game will tend toward the mystical side and that probably relates to Christmas/Christian, etc.

It could also be an ingredient in a spell, where maybe two different items can be combined. What other item that might be, I couldn't tell you.

I can confirm that I got a baseball bat passed to me last night-though I was hoping you'd keep that secret to keep the Servants guessing who you sent it to. If I had to guess about the holly its either protection against corruption/possession or some kind of cure.

[Commo_Soldier]

Not a ton, but there have been doubts about Narc, just nothing from Bug. Which is one of the reasons it was so weird for him to scan Narc over a person he was suspecting as bad.

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm almost starting to wonder if Narc, who voted Lathum of all people and kept his vote there even after Lathum claimed to be roled, doesn't have an agenda he is pushing here.

Originally Posted by dubb93

ELB has most of my attention today but I'm tempted to vote for Lathum or Narc for not making any sense to me or for Jackal as a hunch. I would also love to hear from Danny again and get some answers. For the amount of people in this game today has been relatively quiet.

Originally Posted by Danny

So Narc, are you a wolf?

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Dola, also not getting great feelings about Narc, granted he is away during lots of this, but three throwaway votes, including one on a known roled villager and another on a possibly roled villager. Not to mention his suggesting I not look much into yesterdays voting, which seemed very odd and led me to believe Zinto was not on the up and up.

Originally Posted by Narcizo

You see the thing is my votes weren't throwaway at the time I left. I can't do more than that. And my mckerney vote wouldn't have been a throwaway if he hadn't revealed.

I still don't understand how the end of day two voting leads you to believing that Zinto was a baddy - when it was villager, villager, probable villager. If anything it was Zinto moving his vote latish that made me happier about him. But obviously you were right and I was wrong so fair enough.

Actually my votes have stuck on two roled villagers and one unknown so, yeah, that part isn't a gold star in my merit list. But I agree that I'm a good candidate for being loomed at. Strongly even.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Convert targets? You have to look at stronger players with not much risk of being voted out right now. hoouestionable vote on Day #3. Autumn and Narc would also be good convert targets. I would also say dubb, but I think he has been too much on people's tongues at times early on to be one. As we get further into the game and he's mentioned less, though, he becomes a better convert target..

Originally Posted by dzilla77

Narc is escaping scrutiny and is not participating to his usual level. I know he indicated this at the beginning of the game, but his votes have been completely throw away.

I am thinking or Narc and Chief Rum for exorcism targets tonight. Anybody else have a suggestion?

Originally Posted by dzilla77

Maybe mrbug should go on the exorcism list for tonight.

That would be narc, CR and mrbug.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I don't really follow the logic of suggesting the sheriff not protect bug when he would have no idea who the real seer would be, if they are still out there (which at this point it really doesn't look like it or I would think they would have countered already/may have been converted early).

If DZ was still alive, sure, but why would you suggest giving the wolves a free shot at the seer? I know you are leaning on the side of thinking he isn't the seer, but sacrificing him because of some doubts when there's no strong reveal (until we hear what EF has to say) would be a pretty foolish move.

I thought we had the minister in the game still with McKerney, but I re-read it and he is the martyr and people mentioned shortly after, because of the exorcist reveal, that the minister was probably in the game. After I re-read that I said he should be protected now as we lost the more important role.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Now I'm of the opinion that bug would've been a great conversion target since he revealed, so we have to keep that in mind, but it seems other people were thinking the conversions had to be done earlier than last night. Hard to speculate on that mechanic.

I'm not sure if he is a great target now with all the scrutiny.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I didn't notice you saying I was the minister.

Voting Bug today when we have two good candidates in EF and Narc is a bad play. Even though he could be bad there's no way we should risk killing the seer for the wolves. If we lynch Narc worst case scenario is we find out he's good we learn Bug is compromised and get him tomorrow. I still think it would be a terrible move for Bug to give up a wolf as a converted seer, if Bug is converted and gave us Narc that's awesome, we'll end up lynching Bug by Tuesday and we'll have gotten wolves two out of three days.

If there is a wolf who's giving us another wolf to buy trust today to buy trust it's probably EF if they converted Bug yesterday.

While I agree it is dangerous, who knows if Narc is bad today how the village will feel on Tuesday. Maybe conversions are over now, other than by using magic, so if people believe today Bug is good, why not in a few days.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did anyone have Narcizo as a wolf previously? I dont recall much talk about him at all.

As for bad voting record, a case could be made for pretty much everyone.

And why do you keep harping the fact that I might not be the Seer? I dont think anyone really doubts it. Yesterday it was I had to be corrupted as the Seer, there was no other way around it. Today it's "I might not even be the Seer".

I had worked myself into believing he was not a vanilla Lightbringer, but wasn't sure if he was wolf vs roled just yet. I was leaning towards the latter, which is why I have barely mentioned him this game.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm holding my vote until later in the day unless EF comes in and wants to clarify his vote.

I also passed an item last night that I had held since day 1. I will not say who I passed it to and I don't want the person I passed it to to admit it yet in the off case it is a powerful item. I know little about it so now that it is gone I think we should talk about it publicly that way the new owner can get some sense of what it might be able to do.

The item was "Lantern of Substance." I asked Abe on D2 if I could use it and he said it is more of a passive item. Any clue what this item could do?

no clue other than maybe the lantern shines with "holy" Light, which obviously wouldn't be good to undead types.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Now I'm of the opinion that bug would've been a great conversion target since he revealed, so we have to keep that in mind, but it seems other people were thinking the conversions had to be done earlier than last night. Hard to speculate on that mechanic.

I would be sad if the enemy got 2 night kills and a conversion last night. I don't think I'll even consider it unless we learn one of last nights kills was a villager-initiated action.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Dramatis Personae:


1. CrimsonFox - Lightbringer - Killed Night Four
2. The Jackal
3. Danny - Lightbriner - Abjurer - Killed Night Three
4. Autumn
5. saldana - Lightbringer - Lynched Day Two.
6. Lathum - Lightbringer - The Minister - Killed Night Two
7. Zinto - Order of Vladd, Second Rank - Servant of the Red Death - Lynched Day Three
8. MrBug708
9. J23
10. Narcizo
11. Thomkal
12. ntndeacon - The Unhallowed - Servant of the Red Death - Lynched Day One
13. bhlloy - Keeper of the Cleansing Flame - Lightbringer, Killed Night One
14. dzilla77 - Lightbringer, The Exorcist - Killed Night Four
15. Raiders Army - Lightbringer - Lynched Day Four
16. Chief Rum
17. mckerney
18. EagleFan
19. Commo Soldier
20. mauboy1
21, SnDvls
22. dubb93
23. hoopsguy
24. Grammaticus

Ok, so someone did come out as the minster, just got the names mixed up.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by mckerney

It doesn't make any sense for him to buy trust as a converted seer though. If we lynch Narcizo and find out he's bad the only thing we know is that we could trust Bug yesterday. Even if he gives us Narcizo I don't think there's anyway Bug isn't the lynch target if he's still alive on Tuesday

I would 100% buy into this logic if Bug had come out before EF. But with EF suggesting that Bug was compromised (still waiting for details) then Bug as a wolf would figure his days are number and try to get one bonus kill before he goes down.

If a fake seer isn't in danger (conversion most likely scenario, either him or another on his team being the converted seer) then they should just keep "clearing" people every day. But since he was in danger when he came forward with the reveal, I think all bets are off in terms of Narcizo.

[Narcizo]

Oh for christ's sake!

Dunno if Bug got lucky or if the wolves have some sort of a scanning power. Really Bug? You suddenly know I'm a wolf like 5 minutes after Eagle outs you? pretty convenient. And you happen to have scanned me (not Chief, not Eagle) when I'm the sheriff? I'm guessing scanning power.

Honestly, I think we're in good enough shape to lynch me then lynch Bug tomorrow but I'm not going to let him take me down without a fight. Looks like my paranoid side was right after all.

Protected self. Protected self. Protected Dzilla. Protected Bug.

Yes! I rock at being a bodyguard. I always have. I think it's a cursed role for me. I know that it looks bad for me but, what the hell, it looks even worse for Bug.

[hoopsguy]

Still in a holding pattern waiting for EF, but kind of surprised to see that Narcizo hasn't commented/voted by now.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Oh for christ's sake!

Dunno if Bug got lucky or if the wolves have some sort of a scanning power. Really Bug? You suddenly know I'm a wolf like 5 minutes after Eagle outs you? pretty convenient. And you happen to have scanned me (not Chief, not Eagle) when I'm the sheriff? I'm guessing scanning power.

Honestly, I think we're in good enough shape to lynch me then lynch Bug tomorrow but I'm not going to let him take me down without a fight. Looks like my paranoid side was right after all.

Protected self. Protected self. Protected Dzilla. Protected Bug.

Yes! I rock at being a bodyguard. I always have. I think it's a cursed role for me. I know that it looks bad for me but, what the hell, it looks even worse for Bug.

FWIW, this is the "roled Lightbringer" role that I thought Narcizo might have, since the night blocks weren't going to the obvious places. The natural explanation to me was that the guy in charge of the blocks wasn't around to see the stuff at deadline and account for it with his actions. This is also why I didn't mention a single word of that stuff in the thread - because if Narcizo was the BG then I didn't want to say something that might tip off the Servants.

With this post, I'm probably closer to believing EF + Narcizo than I am MrBug. But I still want to wait and hear what EF says before casting a vote.

[Autumn]

This day keeps getting crazier.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Oh for christ's sake!

Dunno if Bug got lucky or if the wolves have some sort of a scanning power. Really Bug? You suddenly know I'm a wolf like 5 minutes after Eagle outs you? pretty convenient. And you happen to have scanned me (not Chief, not Eagle) when I'm the sheriff? I'm guessing scanning power.

Honestly, I think we're in good enough shape to lynch me then lynch Bug tomorrow but I'm not going to let him take me down without a fight. Looks like my paranoid side was right after all.

Protected self. Protected self. Protected Dzilla. Protected Bug.

Yes! I rock at being a bodyguard. I always have. I think it's a cursed role for me. I know that it looks bad for me but, what the hell, it looks even worse for Bug.

I can see now why the it seemed the sherrif was asleep at the wheel. However what would prevent them from night killing you, why say you were bad?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Still in a holding pattern waiting for EF, but kind of surprised to see that Narcizo hasn't commented/voted by now.

lol

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

FWIW, this is the "roled Lightbringer" role that I thought Narcizo might have, since the night blocks weren't going to the obvious places. The natural explanation to me was that the guy in charge of the blocks wasn't around to see the stuff at deadline and account for it with his actions. This is also why I didn't mention a single word of that stuff in the thread - because if Narcizo was the BG then I didn't want to say something that might tip off the Servants.

With this post, I'm probably closer to believing EF + Narcizo than I am MrBug. But I still want to wait and hear what EF says before casting a vote.

I hadn't thought of that Hoops, but it makes sense.

[MrBug708]

For all I know you could be converted. My scans don't tell me anything past which side u r on.

[Commo_Soldier]

forgot to

Unvote Narc

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I would 100% buy into this logic if Bug had come out before EF. But with EF suggesting that Bug was compromised (still waiting for details) then Bug as a wolf would figure his days are number and try to get one bonus kill before he goes down.

If a fake seer isn't in danger (conversion most likely scenario, either him or another on his team being the converted seer) then they should just keep "clearing" people every day. But since he was in danger when he came forward with the reveal, I think all bets are off in terms of Narcizo.

I agree he could try and buy himself and extra kill by telling us Narc was bad when if he were a Lightbringer, I really don't think he'd sell out Narc as a wolf to gain trust if he'd been corrupted.

[Autumn]

I don't know. Narc pretty much has to come out with a reveal here if he's a wolf. But this does make some sense. It would explain why Bug would come up with Narc instead of EF.

[Chief Rum]

A couple thoughts.

Since I am in the game as the Scientist, it makes sense the Tinkerer is in the game, too.

Also, the sprig of holly could be one of the key elements the Lifegiver needs to bring someone back to life.

I buy Narc's reveal. I would still like to hear from EF.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

FWIW, this is the "roled Lightbringer" role that I thought Narcizo might have, since the night blocks weren't going to the obvious places. The natural explanation to me was that the guy in charge of the blocks wasn't around to see the stuff at deadline and account for it with his actions. This is also why I didn't mention a single word of that stuff in the thread - because if Narcizo was the BG then I didn't want to say something that might tip off the Servants.

With this post, I'm probably closer to believing EF + Narcizo than I am MrBug. But I still want to wait and hear what EF says before casting a vote.

I'm still not sold on EF. I could see EF being bad and telling us Bug was converted to gain trust.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

For all I know you could be converted. My scans don't tell me anything past which side u r on.

I agree with this, tough choice today indeed.

[Narcizo]

This morning my paranoid self was saying that Bug was converted on night three but I convinced myself not to listen to him. The wolves picked up on him being the seer and decided to grab him. That's why Danny wasn't converted. Bug was. I don't know if that's the case, maybe he was converted by his spells. But really, it's pretty clear to me that Bug is getting what he can after Eagle's reveal.